Coach34 said fire Mullen if not .500 in the SEC after five years . . .

[diddog]

When Croom was fired, Coach34 said on this forum that if Mullen is not .500 in the SEC by year five, he should be fired too.

He has now backed off that statement because Mullen will not achieve that goal.

I think this year and next will tell us what we have in Dan Mullen as a coach. So far, Dan has lived off of Croom's players who have dominated his lineup since he arrived (for example, by year four almost all of Croom's starters were recruited by him whereas the majority of Dan's starters were recruited by Croom in year four).

In year five, we now get to see more about the job in talent evaluation and recruiting that Dan and his staff have done. We still have a Croom QB recruit (Russell) and Croom recruits are out best two OL (Jackson and Smith) but otherwise we are about to see the real job that was done by Mullen.

I've been saying for years that we were going to miss Croom and his staff's talent evaluation and recruiting, though we wouldn't miss the job done by his OC. But if we don't have the players, we are never going to win a championship. Coach34 said in another thread that we should be happy to win a bowl game. Sorry, but finishing 2-6 or 3-5 in the SEC, about to go on NCAA probation, and finishing behind Ole Miss and Vandy in recruiting and on the field, even if we win a bowl game, is not satisfying to me.

 

[UIUCDog]

Thanks for sharing.

asdf

 

[msstate7]

What exactly do you think we should achieve? Sugar bowl? National championship?

 

[SixtonPackerish]

"I've been saying for years that we were going to miss Croom and his staff's talent evaluation and recruiting"

I haven't missed a day of his absence from MSU and know for fact, I never will. And when are we going on probation? I wouldn't mind a heads up there.

 

[Faustdog]

What exactly do you think we should achieve? Sugar bowl? National championship?

Sounds to me like he is saying .500 in the SEC.

The last paragraph is garbage though.

 

[msstate7]

.500 in sec is a reasonable goal. I think we'll get it this year

 

[o_hacker]

trollolol

 

[codeDawg]

Did someone seriously just say that we miss Croom? Seriously? After 3 straight bowl games. After being 3-1 against UM. After the best winning percentage of a coach with more than 50 games since Allyn McMcKeen. Seriously?

 

[Negative Waves]

Well I guess Mullen's safe since he went 4-4 this past year in the SEC. Are you

Claradog on Gene's board? If not, the two of you could get a room and reminisce about the glory years of Croom ball like losing to MAINE, TULANE, UAB, and LA TECH.

When Croom was fired, Coach34 said on this forum that if Mullen is not .500 in the SEC by year five, he should be fired too.

He has now backed off that statement because Mullen will not achieve that goal.

I think this year and next will tell us what we have in Dan Mullen as a coach. So far, Dan has lived off of Croom's players who have dominated his lineup since he arrived (for example, by year four almost all of Croom's starters were recruited by him whereas the majority of Dan's starters were recruited by Croom in year four).

In year five, we now get to see more about the job in talent evaluation and recruiting that Dan and his staff have done. We still have a Croom QB recruit (Russell) and Croom recruits are out best two OL (Jackson and Smith) but otherwise we are about to see the real job that was done by Mullen.

I've been saying for years that we were going to miss Croom and his staff's talent evaluation and recruiting, though we wouldn't miss the job done by his OC. But if we don't have the players, we are never going to win a championship. Coach34 said in another thread that we should be happy to win a bowl game. Sorry, but finishing 2-6 or 3-5 in the SEC, about to go on NCAA probation, and finishing behind Ole Miss and Vandy in recruiting and on the field, even if we win a bowl game, is not satisfying to me.

 

[HotMop]

Great post would read again! +1

What is this probation that I keep hearing kicked around on here?

 

[PBRME]

I know. I miss being the laughing stock of the SEC too **.

 

[ugabully]

I think that Croom had a couple of real advantages in recruiting: I do think he is a person of good character, and I think his race and age helped. (please don't ban me; I'm being 100% sincere and not trying to provoke anything crazy). I think if I were an African-American parent, Croom would have seemed a whole lot more trust-worthy to me than almost any other coach just based on feeling like we had had a somewhat similar experience in society at large. While I think it's pretty clear that generally coaches want to use whatever players can bring them without much reciprocal loyalty if the talent or injury status doesn't work out, I think Croom could plausibly sell genuine concern with developing young men, particularly black men more sincerely than most.

Other young-ish coaches like Joker and Sumlin could theoretically project some of the same sense of shared experience, but because they are younger, maybe the same age or younger than the parents, I don't think they probably provoked the same sense of trust. And I think Croom's generation had a fundamentally different experience which, if you were inclined to think about it, would likely mean he would be more careful to make sure he never discounted the achievements of a black player.

Now maybe parents aren't as racial as I might be if I were Black and even I doubt they'd think about it consciously, but if you were thinking of entrusting your 18 year old African-American son to a football program, can you really say that Croom wouldn't have appealed to you more than most coaches? More than Dan does?

It's beyond Dan's control and Croom clearly had problems as a head coach, but I think Croom's recruiting strength and even more, his recruiting potential cannot be denied.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Well, go root for the school that was brilliant enough to hire him after we so erroneously fired him.

 

[esplanade91]

"I've been saying for years that we were going to miss Croom and his staff's talent evaluation and recruiting"

I haven't missed a day of his absence from MSU and know for fact, I never will. And when are we going on probation? I wouldn't mind a heads up there.

A-17'n-men.

Croom definitely scouted Slay, McKinney, M. Johnson, Day, and Griffin. 100%. He is the only reason we got those players. The mighty Croom had those guys nailed down.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Mullen has done it twice. /thread

 

[Thick]

When Croom was fired, Coach34 said on this forum that if Mullen is not .500 in the SEC by year five, he should be fired too.

He has now backed off that statement because Mullen will not achieve that goal.

I think this year and next will tell us what we have in Dan Mullen as a coach. So far, Dan has lived off of Croom's players who have dominated his lineup since he arrived (for example, by year four almost all of Croom's starters were recruited by him whereas the majority of Dan's starters were recruited by Croom in year four).

In year five, we now get to see more about the job in talent evaluation and recruiting that Dan and his staff have done. We still have a Croom QB recruit (Russell) and Croom recruits are out best two OL (Jackson and Smith) but otherwise we are about to see the real job that was done by Mullen.

I've been saying for years that we were going to miss Croom and his staff's talent evaluation and recruiting, though we wouldn't miss the job done by his OC. But if we don't have the players, we are never going to win a championship. Coach34 said in another thread that we should be happy to win a bowl game. Sorry, but finishing 2-6 or 3-5 in the SEC, about to go on NCAA probation, and finishing behind Ole Miss and Vandy in recruiting and on the field, even if we win a bowl game, is not satisfying to me.

Wow, CROOMS, really?? Recruiting has gotten better...last year's class was good and this year's class was better. Mullen is realizing that recruiting is key, and has brought on some guys recently that should make bigger contributions this upcoming year. To compare what OM and Vandy did in recruiting to us is really kind of stupid. Vandy best education in SEC, OM "questionable tactics" maybe but for damn sure not the Grove or Oxford in general. We got everyone we wanted except for Dobbs, Mix, and Alexander. WE ****** up the Dobbs and Mix deal.

We beat the teams that we are supposed to beat, and CROOMS sure as hell didn't do that. We have much more interest from high rated players in other states since Dan has taken over too. I wonder how Croom would have done the last 3 years, not to mention with aTm added this year to the mix.

 

[AFDawg]

I fail to see the alleged good recruiting by Croom. His QB recruiting was terrible. He got some good OLs in Sherrod, Jackson, and Smith, but his overall numbers were bad, forcing us play a lot of young guys--which we're just now getting past.

Two top 25 classes by Mullen and people want to laud Croom's recruiting. Unbelievable.

 

[woozman]

"I think that Croom had a couple of real advantages in recruiting:"

I liked Croom as a man, but he sucked *** as a head coach and his only good recruiting class was his last one (keep in mind Mullen held on to those kids plus brought in some better ones so he deserves some credit for that class), plus Bump was never coming here if Croom stayed. Good players want to play for a good coach and on a good team regardless of the HC's skin color. And that is how it should be.

If your theory about Croom and parents of AA players has any validity (which it doesn't because I lived through it and saw the results of those "talent evaluations") - then Mullen should have won 10 games per year with all those so called studs.

In short, go try to sell that ******** elsewhere. Croom would have done well here if he'd have taken the CEO approach instead of bringing in friends to coach and not holding them accountable (i.e Woody) for one of the worst offenses in the nation.

I hate to do it, but I'm inclined to agree with the other poster in that you are a troll...

 

[Coach34]

When Croom was fired, Coach34 said on this forum that if Mullen is not .500 in the SEC by year five, he should be fired too.

He has now backed off that statement because Mullen will not achieve that goal. .

Mullen has been .500 in the SEC twice in 4 years...what are you talking about?

 

[engie]

I guess it's theoretically possible to be a worse poster? It'd be difficult** Surely you don't just think we are going to believe you. So, do you have a link to these things that "coach said"? BTW, we've been .500 in the SEC twice in Mullen's 4 years.

In 5 years, Sylvester Croom put ZERO of his own recruits into the NFL. ZERO. He put 4 draftees total in the NFL -- all Sherrill recruits in his first 3 years at MSU. In BOTH of his final two years, he failed to get a SINGLE MSU player drafted. The last previous time we "accomplished" that? Try 1938 and 1939.

In one fewer season, Mullen will have put AT LEAST 15 players into the NFL -- 3+ of which are his own -- several others that are arguable.

The SEC west in 2004 /=/ SEC west of 2009. The SEC west of 2008 /=/ SEC west of 2012.

Croom got blessed with an ENTIRE CAREER against ****** Alabama teams, up and down Arkansas teams, terrible OM teams, and still managed to never take a real step forward. That's a distinct contrast to what Mullen has seen from the real powerhouses**

 

[ugabully]

"I think that Croom had a couple of real advantages in recruiting:"

I liked Croom as a man, but he sucked *** as a head coach and his only good recruiting class was his last one (keep in mind Mullen held on to those kids plus brought in some better ones so he deserves some credit for that class), plus Bump was never coming here if Croom stayed. Good players want to play for a good coach and on a good team regardless of the HC's skin color. And that is how it should be.

If your theory about Croom and parents of AA players has any validity (which it doesn't because I lived through it and saw the results of those "talent evaluations") - then Mullen should have won 10 games per year with all those so called studs.

In short, go try to sell that ******** elsewhere. Croom would have done well here if he'd have taken the CEO approach instead of bringing in friends to coach and not holding them accountable (i.e Woody) for one of the worst offenses in the nation.

I hate to do it, but I'm inclined to agree with the other poster in that you are a troll...

You kind of conflate two responses in your post. Do you realize that the OP and I are two different posters? (Not that I'm sure it matters, really.)

I intended more to make the point that Croom had a huge advantage in getting talent, rather than that he actually targeted the right kids.

 

[Coach34]

Two top 25 classes by Mullen and people want to laud Croom's recruiting. Unbelievable.

This is what I dont understand.

2 straight top 25 recruiting classes
3 straight bowl games
3-1 vs our rival

Our fans are morons. It took Jackie until his 6th season to beat a top 15 level team

We are not going to be a BCS team as long as the SEC West has 2 or 3 teams in the top 10. It's just not going to happen- no matter who our coach is. It's not going to happen for OM either. Hell, OM couldnt get to Atl with the number 1 overall NFL pick

If being a consistent bowl team is not good enough for you- then you are a fan of the wrong football team.

 

[downwarddawg]

When Croom was fired, Coach34 said on this forum that if Mullen is not .500 in the SEC by year five, he should be fired too.

He has now backed off that statement because Mullen will not achieve that goal.

I think this year and next will tell us what we have in Dan Mullen as a coach. So far, Dan has lived off of Croom's players who have dominated his lineup since he arrived (for example, by year four almost all of Croom's starters were recruited by him whereas the majority of Dan's starters were recruited by Croom in year four).

In year five, we now get to see more about the job in talent evaluation and recruiting that Dan and his staff have done. We still have a Croom QB recruit (Russell) and Croom recruits are out best two OL (Jackson and Smith) but otherwise we are about to see the real job that was done by Mullen.

I've been saying for years that we were going to miss Croom and his staff's talent evaluation and recruiting, though we wouldn't miss the job done by his OC. But if we don't have the players, we are never going to win a championship. Coach34 said in another thread that we should be happy to win a bowl game. Sorry, but finishing 2-6 or 3-5 in the SEC, about to go on NCAA probation, and finishing behind Ole Miss and Vandy in recruiting and on the field, even if we win a bowl game, is not satisfying to me.

Holy. ****.

 

[woozman]

Yeah, you're correct. Apologies.

 

[RocketDawg]

I fail to see that Croom did anything positive for our FB program at all ... it was all downhill. He may have been slightly better than Jackie in his final years, but that also was because Alabama was in trouble coach-wise. The only positive thing I can think of is that he seemed to be a pretty nice guy, but at times that wasn't even the case. Mullen, on the other hand, is the best coach we've ever had at MSU. He has done wonders for us.

As long as Alabama, LSU, and Auburn are in the west, I agree with 34 on this. We could clone Saban and still not do any better, as long as the real Saban was still at Alabama. Auburn might be regularly beatable, but not the other Alabama and LSU as it stands now. And throw in our East opponents, and we have another loss or two.

 

[WestDawg]

When Croom was fired, Coach34 said on this forum that if Mullen is not .500 in the SEC by year five, he should be fired too.

He has now backed off that statement because Mullen will not achieve that goal.

I think this year and next will tell us what we have in Dan Mullen as a coach. So far, Dan has lived off of Croom's players who have dominated his lineup since he arrived (for example, by year four almost all of Croom's starters were recruited by him whereas the majority of Dan's starters were recruited by Croom in year four).

In year five, we now get to see more about the job in talent evaluation and recruiting that Dan and his staff have done. We still have a Croom QB recruit (Russell) and Croom recruits are out best two OL (Jackson and Smith) but otherwise we are about to see the real job that was done by Mullen.

I've been saying for years that we were going to miss Croom and his staff's talent evaluation and recruiting, though we wouldn't miss the job done by his OC. But if we don't have the players, we are never going to win a championship. Coach34 said in another thread that we should be happy to win a bowl game. Sorry, but finishing 2-6 or 3-5 in the SEC, about to go on NCAA probation, and finishing behind Ole Miss and Vandy in recruiting and on the field, even if we win a bowl game, is not satisfying to me.

Croom & Staff Talent evaluation my @$$ !!!! I was coaching in Memphis City Schools at that time and let me tell you their "talent evaluation" ability - they walked into the office of the high school where I worked and left a damn business card.....I walked in as that staff member was there and introduced myself as being on staff and asked if he wanted to see film of and or meet our better juniors and two seniors. Said no thanks and to send it to the FB office. Which means " we don't ever intend on watching it". I asked if he wanted to meet our new head coach, said no thanks and to have him call if we had any questions for him. I told him I was an alum and it made no difference, as a matter of fact I think he got pissed because I told him I was. And then left. No handshake....nothing. First and only time I ever saw anyone from MSU. I met several staff from UT, UGA, Arky, Bama, and Ole Miss that fall. Both of the Nix brothers from OM came by and spent several hours over the course of our season in our HCs office looking at film and meeting our players and building some bonds. Sy what you want, and as hard as it is for me to say this, but Crooms staff sucked at recruiting. I think Ellis Johnson made that team, and David Turner. Vroom and the rest were terrible. And this didn't happen just at my school, I talked to several staffs in town that were treated the same way.
Thank God for Mullen. Much MUCH better evaluator of talent with his staff than Crooms.

 

[RocketDawg]

Scary but not surprising

Just shows that he didn't really want to be at MSU. Still wanted the Alabama job presumably.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

You sure your name is not *****?

DM is a competitor, leave his *** alone.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Please ban this clown.

Obvious troll.

 

[PBRME]

Just looked over his post history. Most of his posts are defending Croom. It amazes me how someone saw the same shitfest I did, and feel we were better off under Croom.

 

[DAWG61]

I miss Croom like I miss dysentery. Wait what

 

[57stratdawg]

We should expect top 25 classes and bowl games evey year. If James Franklin can make it happen at Vandy, it should be happening here too.

 

[CadaverDawg]

When Croom was fired, Coach34 said on this forum that if Mullen is not .500 in the SEC by year five, he should be fired too.

He has now backed off that statement because Mullen will not achieve that goal.

I think this year and next will tell us what we have in Dan Mullen as a coach. So far, Dan has lived off of Croom's players who have dominated his lineup since he arrived (for example, by year four almost all of Croom's starters were recruited by him whereas the majority of Dan's starters were recruited by Croom in year four).

In year five, we now get to see more about the job in talent evaluation and recruiting that Dan and his staff have done. We still have a Croom QB recruit (Russell) and Croom recruits are out best two OL (Jackson and Smith) but otherwise we are about to see the real job that was done by Mullen.

I've been saying for years that we were going to miss Croom and his staff's talent evaluation and recruiting, though we wouldn't miss the job done by his OC. But if we don't have the players, we are never going to win a championship. Coach34 said in another thread that we should be happy to win a bowl game. Sorry, but finishing 2-6 or 3-5 in the SEC, about to go on NCAA probation, and finishing behind Ole Miss and Vandy in recruiting and on the field, even if we win a bowl game, is not satisfying to me.

This is some dumb ****.

 

[Koldfire]

Croom sucked as a head coach. But damn, do we have to rehash that fact every 17n week? I never think of Croom. I'm only concerned about our present staff. More so, is Mullen gonna get us in the top half of the SEC. If university of mississippi or Vandy moves ahead of us .... Bowls my ***, 3/4 of the SEC teams will go to bowl game.

 

[engie]

We should expect top 25 classes and bowl games evey year. If James Franklin can make it happen at Vandy, it should be happening here too.

Except the fact that James Franklin isn't making it happen at Vandy. You must have missed his first class -- which was 49 on the 24/7 composite. Or how about this one? Which improved to #30. Nevermind that he's also selling the MOST prestigious degree in the SEC by a mile...

 

[57stratdawg]

They're there now though. They were 29th in 2012 and 19th on Rivals last I checked. They'll be a top 25/30 class as long as Franklin is there.

Point is, there is unprecidented amounts of success happening all across the SEC right now:

Vandy has been to back to back bowl games for the first time in school history.
It's been the best 3 year run South Carolina football has ever seen.
Bama's is in the middle of the best 4 year stretch in modern football.
A&M's first Heisman in 55 years.
When has OM landed a top 5 class before?

Basically every school in this conferece, with the possible exception of Tennessee, is outperforming their historical norms. So, when we show how well Dan Mullen is doing compared to MSU's past, it mean nothing to me. He should be outperforming our past. Everyone else is.

Is he outperforming Auburn, Arkansas, South Car, Vandy, OM, A&M (notice I didn't say Bama, LSU, Florida) year in and year out? Those are the margins where we should judge Mullen, not compared to MSU in 70s and 80s.

 

[engie]

They're there now though. They were 29th in 2012 and 19th on Rivals last I checked. They'll be a top 25/30 class as long as Franklin is there.

Point is, there is unprecidented amounts of success happening all across the SEC right now:

Vandy has been to back to back bowl games for the first time in school history.
It's been the best 3 year run South Carolina football has ever seen.
Bama's is in the middle of the best 4 year stretch in modern football.
A&M's first Heisman in 55 years.
When has OM landed a top 5 class before?

Basically every school in this conferece, with the possible exception of Tennessee, is outperforming their historical norms. So, when we show how well Dan Mullen is doing compared to MSU's past, it mean nothing to me. He should be outperforming our past. Everyone else is.

Is he outperforming Auburn, Arkansas, South Car, Vandy, OM, A&M (notice I didn't say Bama, LSU, Florida) year in and year out? Those are the margins where we should judge Mullen, not compared to MSU in 70s and 80s.

So, you are using Rivals now to make this argument? The same Rivals that has Mix as a 4*, but Shump and Cox as 3*s and does next to ZERO talent evaluation in MS?

So, because the SEC recruiting is up -- and ours is up by an equal amount -- Mullen is currently failing? "Mullen can't be judged my MSU past" line of thinking is ********. That is ALL we've got to judge him on. Nevermind that our two best expected recruiters have been on the job for 4 months and four weeks respectively. But because the conference is up, you think we should snap our fingers and become very borderline nationally elite. Nevermind that we've gone from 12th-13th in recruiting to 6th-8th the past 2 years.

Overall, you now expect him to consistently outperform AUBURN, Arkansas, SC, Vandy, Om and TEXAS 17'n A&M on the recruiting trail?

Good, I sure am glad you left out Alabama, LSU, and Florida**

 

[Todd4State]

Even worse

Croom didn't even try to recruit Madison Central. And by not try- I mean never sent anyone for years. We didn't have anyone get back there until we hired Hudspeth. A Memphis area school is bad enough- but a freaking Jackson area school? Good God. What's sad is we probably would have gotten Chaz Ramsey too, so it's not like we were being kept out. Croom messed up Swayze Waters too- but I'm not sure how that went down. We missed out on a kicker that played in the NFL and in Canada.

 

[Todd4State]

You do realize

Croom sucked as a head coach. But damn, do we have to rehash that fact every 17n week? I never think of Croom. I'm only concerned about our present staff. More so, is Mullen gonna get us in the top half of the SEC. If university of mississippi or Vandy moves ahead of us .... Bowls my ***, 3/4 of the SEC teams will go to bowl game.

That we are one of the few teams in the SEC to go to a bowl the past three seasons?

Ole Miss, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Arkansas, Missouri, and Texas A&M can't say that.

It's not a coincidence that our recruiting is getting better and better with each bowl that we go to as well. You don't go from a 3-4 win team- which is what we were under Croom- to a consistent 8-10 win team overnight. Especially with our football history.

 

[57stratdawg]

So, because the SEC recruiting is up -- and ours is up by an equal amount -- Mullen is currently failing? "Mullen can't be judged my MSU past" line of thinking is ********. That is ALL we've got to judge him on. Nevermind that our two best expected recruiters have been on the job for 4 months and four weeks respectively. But because the conference is up, you think we should snap our fingers and become very borderline nationally elite. Nevermind that we've gone from 12th-13th in recruiting to 6th-8th the past 2 years.

This isn't about recruiting rankings, Rivals vs 247, etc.

For the first time since 2009, Mullen isn't guaranteed a bowl game this year with the schedule. If he doesn't make one, this fan base will be fractured on Mullen. Hell, maybe even if we go to a '6-6 bowl'. How do you explain that if it's all about outperforming our past? In January of 2011 Mullen could have kicked our dog and MSU fans would have still loved him. Since then, his margin of error has decreased even though we've been to bowl games. Again, that's a tough concept if you believe that "All we have to judge him on is our history".

I'm not saying Mullen is failing, I haven't posted that. But, you know I'm right about out performng historical success vs SEC success.