Coal mine celebrated by Trump opens in Pennsylvania...70 jobs @ $100k

[WVPATX]

For as long as I can remember West Virginia has both (a) leaned on and championed coal as heavily as possible and (b) been one of the poorest states in the nation. It doesn't take an economics expert to see that maybe that strategy isn't working.

Very simplistic post. Very simplistic. You are drawing a correlation that may be completely wrong. WV is poor because of coal? No other factors? Ok.

Years ago, Texas depended on oil and gas. Today, they are the most productive job producing state in the U.S. over the past decade. Do you think Texas had a few more things going for them than WV?

 

[op2]

I know coal mining pays very well. Making even $75K in WV for a man without a college diploma is very, very good. What choice does that man have if that job goes away? Where is he going to work to make that kind of money.

Libs say he needs to move. But what about responsibilities to parents, siblings, children, love of WV, friends, WVU sports, etc. Not as easy as many libs make it out to be.

Far too many libs on this board seem almost gleeful at the prospect of these guys losing their jobs.

The only reason the miner in WV that can't get a job is in WV in the first place is because his ancestor couldn't get a job elsewhere and moved to WV. So moving is not unprecedented.

But that said, in addition to moving out of WV to get a decent job another possibility is to create more decent jobs in WV so unemployed miners have other options.

But no. It's 2017 and all we hear are people yelling "BRING COAL BACK!" even though it's not coming back in any meaningful way.

So some people will move from WV as they have been doing. Others will stay and remain unemployed and poor. And people that say "We should start looking for a jobs model beyond coal" will continue to be shouted down.

 

[old buzzard]

and BEHIND THOSE 70 JOBS @ $100,000...

are 400 MORE JOBS SUPPORTING THOSE 70 MINERS...

WINNING!!!

.......Far too many libs on this board seem almost gleeful at the prospect of these guys losing their jobs.

Even more libs are upset that at least some of those jobs are coming back.

 

[op2]

Very simplistic post. Very simplistic. You are drawing a correlation that may be completely wrong. WV is poor because of coal? No other factors? Ok.

Years ago, Texas depended on oil and gas. Today, they are the most productive job producing state in the U.S. over the past decade. Do you think Texas had a few more things going for them than WV?

Whatever other factors there are that cause WV to be poor are irrelevant if anytime somebody tries to bring them up and address them the response is "WHY DO YOU HATE COAL?"

 

[WVPATX]

The only reason the miner in WV that can't get a job is in WV in the first place is because his ancestor couldn't get a job elsewhere and moved to WV. So moving is not unprecedented.

But that said, in addition to moving out of WV to get a decent job another possibility is to create more decent jobs in WV so unemployed miners have other options.

But no. It's 2017 and all we hear are people yelling "BRING COAL BACK!" even though it's not coming back in any meaningful way.

So some people will move from WV as they have been doing. Others will stay and remain unemployed and poor. And people that say "We should start looking for a jobs model beyond coal" will continue to be shouted down.

You made a simplistic observation and drew a ridiculous correlation. Where is an uneducated person going to go and make $60 - $70K a year? Manufacturing jobs are leaving or at least were before Trump. Trade deals moved these kind of jobs out of the country. Median family income has fallen in the U.S. since 2000. It's not like these kinds of job that pay well for an uneducated person are just waiting to be filled.

WV does need to diversify its economy. Coal mining has zero to do with that diversification. Lots of other factors involved.

 

[WVPATX]

Whatever other factors there are that cause WV to be poor are irrelevant if anytime somebody tries to bring them up and address them the response is "WHY DO YOU HATE COAL?"

You do seem to hate coal and do most other libs on the board. It has provided a great living for many uneducated people. And your post is non-sensical. I think every thinking person knows we need to diversify out economy. Coal mining is not stopping that diversification. Never has.

Your party hates coal. Many lib posters on the board seem to hate it as well. Stand up, be a man and admit it.

 

[WVPATX]

Even more libs are upset that at least some of those jobs are coming back.

That is the interesting part to me. The libs on the board mock any jobs that come back in mining. They also mock any manufacturing jobs or companies that announce jobs staying in the U.S. Very strange.

 

[WVU82_rivals]

the fact that there is even an argument over a miner's wages shows Trump is winning...

 

[op2]

You do seem to hate coal and do most other libs on the board. It has provided a great living for many uneducated people. And your post is non-sensical. I think every thinking person knows we need to diversify out economy. Coal mining is not stopping that diversification. Never has.

Your party hates coal. Many lib posters on the board seem to hate it as well. Stand up, be a man and admit it.

You're crazy. I don't have coal and I don't have a party. And plenty of the uneducated people coal has made a great living were in my family. But the reason coal provided a great living was that they moved on from whatever employed people previous to coal to the new and better employer of coal. Well guess what, now coal is in the position of being the industry past its prime and lots of people have no choice but to do something else or else go unemployed.

WV has needed to diversify its economy for decades and yet it hasn't happened. But as soon as I point this out you say that I, and I quote, "hate coal." People that respond to any suggestion of change with "You hate coal" are the problem.

 

[WVPATX]

You're crazy. I don't have coal and I don't have a party. And plenty of the uneducated people coal has made a great living were in my family. But the reason coal provided a great living was that they moved on from whatever employed people previous to coal to the new and better employer of coal. Well guess what, now coal is in the position of being the industry past its prime and lots of people have no choice but to do something else or else go unemployed.

WV has needed to diversify its economy for decades and yet it hasn't happened. But as soon as I point this out you say that I, and I quote, "hate coal." People that respond to any suggestion of change with "You hate coal" are the problem.

You need to go back and read all the libs posts on coal, coal mining, etc. You claim you don't hate coal, but your party does and many posts on this board from libs certainly portray an animus. Why, I am not sure. It makes zero sense since it has been so important to the state.

Coal was hurt dramatically by the regulations of the Obama administration. If the market were responsible, that is one thing and it would have given the people of WV more time to adapt and adjust. But when it happened this quickly as Obama promised, adaptation is very, very difficult.

Now, some jobs are coming back and the libs seem to mock each one. Again, not sure why.

Lastly, you blamed coal for the lack of diversification of WV's economy. Specious argument.

 

[dave]

For as long as I can remember West Virginia has both (a) leaned on and championed coal as heavily as possible and (b) been one of the poorest states in the nation. It doesn't take an economics expert to see that maybe that strategy isn't working.

Well considering you are not correct perhaps it takes someone more expert than you?

 

[dave]

You're crazy. I don't have coal and I don't have a party. And plenty of the uneducated people coal has made a great living were in my family. But the reason coal provided a great living was that they moved on from whatever employed people previous to coal to the new and better employer of coal. Well guess what, now coal is in the position of being the industry past its prime and lots of people have no choice but to do something else or else go unemployed.

WV has needed to diversify its economy for decades and yet it hasn't happened. But as soon as I point this out you say that I, and I quote, "hate coal." People that respond to any suggestion of change with "You hate coal" are the problem.

You dont know what you are talking about yet you continue talking.

 

[op2]

You need to go back and read all the libs posts on coal, coal mining, etc. You claim you don't hate coal, but your party does and many posts on this board from libs certainly portray an animus. Why, I am not sure. It makes zero sense since it has been so important to the state.

Coal was hurt dramatically by the regulations of the Obama administration. If the market were responsible, that is one thing and it would have given the people of WV more time to adapt and adjust. But when it happened this quickly as Obama promised, adaptation is very, very difficult.

Now, some jobs are coming back and the libs seem to mock each one. Again, not sure why.

Lastly, you blamed coal for the lack of diversification of WV's economy. Specious argument.

You sound ridiculous saying "libs" all the time. Grow up. I don't have a party and I don't care what anybody on here has said about it so equating me with them is pointless.

And as my graph showed, coal jobs have been declining in number since long before Obama came along. Try putting partisan politics down for two seconds.

 

[op2]

Well considering you are not correct perhaps it takes someone more expert than you?

Says the guy that never says anything substantive.

 

[dave]

You sound ridiculous saying "libs" all the time. Grow up. I don't have a party and I don't care what anybody on here has said about it so equating me with them is pointless.

And as my graph showed, coal jobs have been declining in number since long before Obama came along. Try putting partisan politics down for two seconds.

What happened to coal jobs after Obama was elected? Do they have a chart for that moron?

 

[WVPATX]

You sound ridiculous saying "libs" all the time. Grow up. I don't have a party and I don't care what anybody on here has said about it so equating me with them is pointless.

And as my graph showed, coal jobs have been declining in number since long before Obama came along. Try putting partisan politics down for two seconds.

You may not be a member of the Dem or Socialist party, but you are very liberal. Thus, a lib (I don't like to type so I shorten when I can). Why are you offended by the word lib? I say right winger too and I am not offended.

Yes, coal jobs in the U.S. has declined due to innovation and technology. But those are market forces not government edict. It was partisan politics that caused approximately 100 coal fired power plants to shut down thus hurting our state dramatically.

 

[op2]

What happened to coal jobs after Obama was elected? Do they have a chart for that moron?

I already posted the coal jobs graph for the past 125 years.

 

[op2]

Since apparently some people are too bothered to click on the link I'll post the coal jobs graph again but without needing the link this time. In addition to noticing how the absolute number of jobs has gone down note that from start to end of this graph the population of the country increased fivefold.

 

[dave]

I already posted the coal jobs graph for the past 125 years.

If you cant answer the question I understand. I expected as much from an ingorant twit.

 

[WVPATX]

68 coal fired power plants shut down due to Obama regs.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/e...plants-to-shut-down-from-EPA-regulations.html

This had no impact on coal mining employment, right?

U.S. Has Lost 191,000 Mining Industry Jobs Since September 2014
By Terence P. Jeffrey | May 6, 2016 | 10:18 AM EDT

(AP Photo/David Goldman)
(CNSNews.com) - The United States has lost approximately 191,000 jobs in the mining industry since September 2014 including approximately 7,000 that were lost in April, according to data published today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The coal mining industry alone has lost approximately 10,900 jobs since April of last year.

“Mining employment continued to decline in April (-7,000),” the Bureau of Labor Statistics said in its employment release this morning. “Since reaching a peak in September 2014, employment in mining has decreased by 191,000, with more than three-quarters of the loss in support activities for mining.”

In recent years, according to the BLS’s seasonally adjusted month-by-month historical employment numbers, mining employment in the United States peaked in September 2014, when there were 852,500 jobs in the industry.



In April, there were only 661,600 mining industry jobs in the United States, according to BLS. That is a decline of 190,900 mining jobs in 19 months.

The BLS has month-by-month employment data in the mining industry going back to 1958. In the 58 years since then, mining employment has seen a series of peaks and troughs, hitting its all-time high in December 1981, and its most recent peak in September 2014.

In December 1981, according to BLS’s seasonally adjusted number, there were 1,177,400 jobs in mining in the United States. That is 515,800 more than the 661,600 jobs in mining this April.

Employment in coal mining has been declining along with the overall mining industry. From April 2015 to April 2016, jobs in the coal mining industry declined from 67,500 to 56,600—a loss of 10,900 jobs in one year.

BLS has seasonally adjusted month-by-month employment numbers in the coal mining industry going back to 1985.

In recent years, employment in the coal mining industry peaked January 2012 at 89,800. Since then it has declined by 33,300 jobs to the current level of 56,600 a near 40% reduction.

In the full period since 1985, employment in the coal mining industry peaked in April 1985 at 178,300 jobs. This April, there were 121,700 fewer jobs in the coal mining industry than there were in that April 31 years ago.

 

[old buzzard]

In recent years, employment in the coal mining industry peaked January 2012 at 89,800. Since then it has declined by 33,300 jobs to the current level of 56,600 a near 40% reduction.[/QUOTE]

Isn't it a strange coincidence that we lost 33,300 coal mining jobs since Obama's war on coal took full effect ? The other 56,000 would be jobless by the time Hillary was done if she had been elected.

 

[WVPATX]

In recent years, employment in the coal mining industry peaked January 2012 at 89,800. Since then it has declined by 33,300 jobs to the current level of 56,600 a near 40% reduction.

Isn't it a strange coincidence that we lost 33,300 coal mining jobs since Obama's war on coal took full effect ? The other 56,000 would be jobless by the time Hillary was done if she had been elected.[/QUOTE]

No coincidence, Obama promised it.

 

[dave]

Hillary promised to put a lot of miners out of work too. She took it back when people in her party reminded her that she still needed votes and was not up by 50 points.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Your dad sounds like a good man. Too bad he never found a job at a UMWA represented mine or a larger company where he would have been better rewarded for his efforts.

Worked for Massey for 15 years........

 

[MountaineerWV]

I didn't take his comments as him calling me a liar, I just viewed them as someone commenting on something they know nothing about. He can choose to believe me or not, I really don't care other than he should do a little fact checking before he calls $100,000 coal mining jobs a farce.

Well, I knew a little about it considering my father.......so those other guys are calling me a liar. He worked in excess of 60 hours a week, and made what he did.......he retired from the mines in late 1990's.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Now why don't you ***** people who know nothing about the industry walk away and keep mouth shut. I trust people will consume coal as needed and stop the **** of government declaing war on the industry. We can live with nearly all industry-save pig farming. Just go away and shut the *** up and allow the market to set supply and wages. Why can't we all get along?

Perhaps you should look at your attacks on him and see "why we can't all get along"........

 

[dave]

Perhaps you should look at your attacks on him and see "why we can't all get along"........

Why not look in the mirror hypocrite?

 

[MountaineerWV]

Since apparently some people are too bothered to click on the link I'll post the coal jobs graph again but without needing the link this time. In addition to noticing how the absolute number of jobs has gone down note that from start to end of this graph the population of the country increased fivefold.

Geez, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush must have really hated coal and miners.........

 

[WVPATX]

Geez, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush must have really hated coal and miners.........

Market based changes, technology, innovation, increased productivity. Certainly not the massive changes caused by Obama regs that shuttered dozens and dozens of coal fired power plants. 40% reduction in miners since 2014.

 

[dave]

Geez, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush must have really hated coal and miners.........

Really? What environmental policies did they enact to hurt the industry?

 

[bornaneer]

Well, I knew a little about it considering my father.......so those other guys are calling me a liar. He worked in excess of 60 hours a week, and made what he did.......he retired from the mines in late 1990's.

American Fraud was the one calling people liar's. I have respect for your position about the coal industry and agree with a lot of what you post about it. I also respect your father for what he did in providing for his family by doing such a hard and dangerous job. I come from a family of miners and have relatives that paid the ultimate price. I hate what the coal business was allowed to do to our state by our corrupt state leaders. Those same inept leaders are directly responsible for their very shortsightedness in preparing our state for life after coal. That's what 100 years of mostly one party rule has done for us. With all that being said....I'm for any industry that provides jobs for West Virginians and that includes coal. We can have a coal industry without destroying our environment. We have plenty of coal and if done right ...it can be an asset.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Market based changes, technology, innovation, increased productivity. Certainly not the massive changes caused by Obama regs that shuttered dozens and dozens of coal fired power plants. 40% reduction in miners since 2014.

I know, perhaps they found cheaper forms of energy........wow, kind of like today.......but hey, let's blame Obama 100% for the downturn.

 

[bornaneer]

Geez, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush must have really hated coal and miners.........

Not as much as Obama did. Any way you slice it....Obama caused great damage to the coal industry.

 

[dave]

I know, perhaps they found cheaper forms of energy........wow, kind of like today.......but hey, let's blame Obama 100% for the downturn.

What was the cheaper form of energy and if that exists what market conditions made it cheaper?

 

[MountaineerWV]

American Fraud was the one calling people liar's. I have respect for your position about the coal industry and agree with a lot of what you post about it. I also respect your father for what he did in providing for his family by doing such a hard and dangerous job. I come from a family of miners and have relatives that paid the ultimate price. I hate what the coal business was allowed to do to our state by our corrupt state leaders. Those same inept leaders are directly responsible for their very shortsightedness in preparing our state for life after coal. That's what 100 years of mostly one party rule has done for us. With all that being said....I'm for any industry that provides jobs for West Virginians and that includes coal. We can have a coal industry without destroying our environment. We have plenty of coal and if done right ...it can be an asset.

I'm not anti-coal. It provided me with shelter, food every day, a steady family, and a college education. However, it has led to a dependency, like what heroin addicts go through when it's not there. I've always wanted more opportunities for people in the southern WV coalfields.

 

[dave]

I'm not anti-coal. It provided me with shelter, food every day, a steady family, and a college education. However, it has led to a dependency, like what heroin addicts go through when it's not there. I've always wanted more opportunities for people in the southern WV coalfields.

You just tried to compare coal to heroin. WTF is wrong with you?

 

[bornaneer]

I'm not anti-coal. It provided me with shelter, food every day, a steady family, and a college education. However, it has led to a dependency, like what heroin addicts go through when it's not there. I've always wanted more opportunities for people in the southern WV coalfields.

Now you know why I'm a Repub......but don't equate heroin withdrawal with a lack of a job.

 

[WVPATX]

I know, perhaps they found cheaper forms of energy........wow, kind of like today.......but hey, let's blame Obama 100% for the downturn.

68 coal fired plants shuttered due to Obama regs. Lots of jobs lost when demand dropped that much. Nat Gas is a big time competitor but they were a competitor in 2014 when these losses started to occur.

 

[WVU82_rivals]