Cody Campbell say Alabama and Auburn can't compete anymore.......

[OG Goat Holder]

From the On3 article on the right side of the page.

So, I get that some of these singular guys are funding these teams. Wealth is parabolic in this country, we all know that, a few folks have most of it. My concern is this......Bama and Auburn still have a lot of money, collectively anyway. And we can all do rev share, so that sets the floor for most P4 teams anyway. If these guys continue to do this, and just put the STUPID money into these players, we are going to even have a separation from the P4. All depends on how sustainable this is, I have no idea how much cash he has or Phil Knight has, but I'm sure an internet savings account could generate enough to fund a football team. They'll always be ahead of these teams trying to collectively fleece their 500K-1M earner portions of their fanbases.

But just how high will a roster cost? I think most P4 teams can do the rev share, maybe up to 30M total.........and obviously that will grow a little per year. But is Texas Tech planning to spend 50M? 100M? If they don't I don't see this huge chasm, and it'll still boil down to coaching and evaluation. But if they do they'll literally just take all the best players because none of them will be able to turn down that level of money, loyalty or not. You'd be stupid not to.

 

[85Bears]

They both have bigger payrolls than Indiana, just much worse coaching. As does Texas tech

 

[patdog]

Long-term, I don't think either of them can.

 

[mcdawg22]

My question is where were these guys 10 years ago. If they are willing to put this kind of money up, why not offer 20 million to Saban in 2015.

 

[HRMSU]

My question is where were these guys 10 years ago. If they are willing to put this kind of money up, why not offer 20 million to Saban in 2015.

What has really changed is the portal. Immediate eligibility will continue to drive up prices. Imagine if NFL players had immediate eligibility. A player like Dak that has betted on himself twice and won could do it every year. NFL QBs could name their price and then do it again and again and again......

 

[HRMSU]

From the On3 article on the right side of the page.

So, I get that some of these singular guys are funding these teams. Wealth is parabolic in this country, we all know that, a few folks have most of it. My concern is this......Bama and Auburn still have a lot of money, collectively anyway. And we can all do rev share, so that sets the floor for most P4 teams anyway. If these guys continue to do this, and just put the STUPID money into these players, we are going to even have a separation from the P4. All depends on how sustainable this is, I have no idea how much cash he has or Phil Knight has, but I'm sure an internet savings account could generate enough to fund a football team. They'll always be ahead of these teams trying to collectively fleece their 500K-1M earner portions of their fanbases.

But just how high will a roster cost? I think most P4 teams can do the rev share, maybe up to 30M total.........and obviously that will grow a little per year. But is Texas Tech planning to spend 50M? 100M? If they don't I don't see this huge chasm, and it'll still boil down to coaching and evaluation. But if they do they'll literally just take all the best players because none of them will be able to turn down that level of money, loyalty or not. You'd be stupid not to.

When money was under the table it was a buyer's market combined with program reputation - advantage Blue Bloods

When NIL became legal along with immediate portal eligibility it became a seller's market- advantage "wealthy" schools then program reputation

Wealthy schools + program reputation = Big10

We (SEC) need to lead the way with solving the portal or making multi year contracts standard. Also, increase the playoff teams. The SEC is a mess on a slippery slope.

 

[GloryDawg]

NIL and portal have even the playing field. Even GA not as strong. Use to be next man up but their backups got man raped in the Ole Miss game. That's the difference now. These teams are not as deep as they use to be.

 

[WranglerofDawgs]

They're literally just playing real world fantasy football with each other.

F-U money at it's finest.

 

[patdog]

Wealthy schools + program reputation = Big10

Exactly. The only SEC schools that can compete with Big 10 money are Texas, A&M, Georgia & Florida.

 

[Olegreyboy]

Exactly. The only SEC schools that can compete with Big 10 money are Texas, A&M, Georgia & Florida.

A &M has the money But they don’t know how to use it.

 

[57stratdawg]

Probably no coincidence a bunch of SEC schools with State economies towards the bottom suddenly find themselves struggling compete in this NIL world.

The risk tolerance among SEC schools was just so much higher when this was all under the table.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Probably no coincidence a bunch of SEC schools with State economies towards the bottom suddenly find themselves struggling compete in this NIL world.

At this point in time, I don't think that effect has really taken hold yet. Certainly been a return to earth, but I don't know that it's all money. I think it's that Kalen Deboar is a bad fit and nobody knows WTF Freesus was doing. Maybe slow to embrace, etc. Again, we all have enough for rev share.

I think this is more of a future thing IF this guy does what he says he's going to do. I don't even think it's about states or big metro areas.....it's about these singular guys. This guy can lift Texas Tech up above Texas and A&M, and they all have a good economy around them.

I mean Indiana is 40, come on. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy

 

[DawgNsuds]

At this point in time, I don't think that effect has really taken hold yet. Certainly been a return to earth, but I don't know that it's all money. I think it's that Kalen Deboar is a bad fit and nobody knows WTF Freesus was doing. Maybe slow to embrace, etc. Again, we all have enough for rev share.

I think this is more of a future thing IF this guy does what he says he's going to do. I don't even think it's about states or big metro areas.....it's about these singular guys. This guy can lift Texas Tech up above Texas and A&M, and they all have a good economy around them.

I mean Indiana is 40, come on. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy

I agree here, Bama and Auburn have missed with their coaching picks. Certainly NIL has changed the landscape, but I'm not sure their recent coaches would have had expected success pre NIL

 

[HRMSU]

At this point in time, I don't think that effect has really taken hold yet. Certainly been a return to earth, but I don't know that it's all money. I think it's that Kalen Deboar is a bad fit and nobody knows WTF Freesus was doing. Maybe slow to embrace, etc. Again, we all have enough for rev share.

I think this is more of a future thing IF this guy does what he says he's going to do. I don't even think it's about states or big metro areas.....it's about these singular guys. This guy can lift Texas Tech up above Texas and A&M, and they all have a good economy around them.

I mean Indiana is 40, come on. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy

Don't get distracted by outliers. Every system has outliers.

 

[L4Dawg]

They both have bigger payrolls than Indiana, just much worse coaching. As does Texas tech

Got the figures to back that up? Let's see them.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Don't get distracted by outliers. Every system has outliers.

What outliers are you talking about? Not arguing, just not following.

I'm talking Cody Campbell, Phil Knight, that Miami attorney, and now maybe even Mark Cuban. I mean how many schools have these type of guys, that are willing to do it? Why hasn't Arkansas done it?

 

[paindonthurt]

My question is where were these guys 10 years ago. If they are willing to put this kind of money up, why not offer 20 million to Saban in 2015.

This is what people don’t get.

Mississippi State just paid a baseball coach $2.9 million.

We could have paid saban $15 million. Ole Miss could have Paid lane what he is getting at lsu.
IT DOESNT MATTER. Bama could match any offer or more and he’s at bama with the legacy of being better than bear.

I don’t love NIL but it’s 100% creating some parity. Mainly bc the top talent is being spread around to 15 to 20 teams vs 5 to 10.

ETA: paid vs laid and lsu vs ole miss

 

[paindonthurt]

When money was under the table it was a buyer's market combined with program reputation - advantage Blue Bloods

When NIL became legal along with immediate portal eligibility it became a seller's market- advantage "wealthy" schools then program reputation

Wealthy schools + program reputation = Big10

We (SEC) need to lead the way with solving the portal or making multi year contracts standard. Also, increase the playoff teams. The SEC is a mess on a slippery slope.

Increasing playoff teams isn’t gonna do $h1t

but the portal or yearly free agency has to be fixed.

 

[paindonthurt]

backups got man raped in the Ole Miss game. That's the difference now.

your post was accurate except for this.

chambliss was the difference in that game. If he isn’t on the field ole miss gets beat by 2 TDs

 

[HRMSU]

What outliers are you talking about? Not arguing, just not following.

I'm talking Cody Campbell, Phil Knight, that Miami attorney, and now maybe even Mark Cuban. I mean how many schools have these type of guys, that are willing to do it? Why hasn't Arkansas done it?

Your last sentence. Indiana is an outlier. Someone wrote a really good book called Outliers. Outliers are definitely worth studying but make no mistake they are outliers.

I agree with your super booster theory but unlike you I think it's already hurting the SEC....and yes I agree about some of the weaker coaches in the league at some of the SEC blue blood programs.

 

[HRMSU]

Increasing playoff teams isn’t gonna do $h1t

but the portal or yearly free agency has to be fixed.

The SEC needs to agree to increase playoff teams so we can get more in under the new $ rules. The Big10 doesn't. It's actually funny because both leagues have the opposite position right now which is why playoff expansion is stalled.

Agree on the sh!+ show portal

 

[horshack.sixpack]

When money was under the table it was a buyer's market combined with program reputation - advantage Blue Bloods

When NIL became legal along with immediate portal eligibility it became a seller's market- advantage "wealthy" schools then program reputation

Wealthy schools + program reputation = Big10

We (SEC) need to lead the way with solving the portal or making multi year contracts standard. Also, increase the playoff teams. The SEC is a mess on a slippery slope.

Right. Assume that >50% of wealthy alumns find the idea of illegally funneling money to football programs/players untenable. Making it legal just opened the door for people who have a strong moral compass to participate without any negative repercussions, instantly increasing the potential donor base substantially.

 

[HRMSU]

This is what people don’t get.

Mississippi State just paid a baseball coach $2.9 million.

We could have paid saban $15 million. Ole Miss could have laid lane what he is getting at ole Miss.
IT DOESNT MATTER. Bama could match any offer or more and he’s at bama with the legacy of being better than bear.

I don’t love NIL but it’s 100% creating some parity. Mainly bc the top talent is being spread around to 15 to 20 teams vs 5 to 10.

If you think Bama has more money than the TX schools and at least 1/3 of the Big10 then we will have to agree to disagree. They may have just as many t-shirt ball cap fans but alumni and deep pocket alumni is a completely different ballgame.

The parity you celebrate is the re-allocation of talent from the SEC to the Big10. Pre-nil and portal the South specifically the SEC had established an advantage in recruiting and keeping players home. Now, money trumps recency bias. I'm sure players still love the idea of playing for a traditional power like Bama or GA but they like $ more....I don't blame them.

 

[HRMSU]

Right. Assume that >50% of wealthy alumns find the idea of illegally funneling money to football programs/players untenable. Making it legal just opened the door for people who have a strong moral compass to participate without any negative repercussions, instantly increasing the potential donor base substantially.

Exactly!! This cannot be overstated. The SEC is now simply outgunned by the Big10. Doesn't mean we'll never win a natty but the days of dominance is over.

 

[HRMSU]

NIL and portal have even the playing field. Even GA not as strong. Use to be next man up but their backups got man raped in the Ole Miss game. That's the difference now. These teams are not as deep as they use to be.

Agree, but it's coming at the expense of the SEC. We can be happy that GA or Bama aren't as deep anymore (I agree) but those players aren't going to the ACC they are heading North and West to the Big10.

 

[patdog]

Agree, but it's coming at the expense of the SEC. We can be happy that GA or Bama aren't as deep anymore (I agree) but those players aren't going to the ACC they are heading North and West to the Big10.

And more importantly, those players aren't coming to Mississippi State. A lot of people thought the portal would help us there, but so far it hasn't.

 

[paindonthurt]

If you think Bama has more money than the TX schools and at least 1/3 of the Big10 then we will have to agree to disagree. They may have just as many t-shirt ball cap fans but alumni and deep pocket alumni is a completely different ballgame.

I didn't say Bama has more money that the Big 10 or Texas schools. Big 10 and Texas schools still couldn't hire saban away with all that money when it was perfectly legal to hire him away and pay him boat loads of cash.

The parity you celebrate is the re-allocation of talent from the SEC to the Big10. Pre-nil and portal the South specifically the SEC had established an advantage in recruiting and keeping players home. Now, money trumps recency bias. I'm sure players still love the idea of playing for a traditional power like Bama or GA but they like $ more....I don't blame them.

Parity was kind of proven this year. Not a single blue blood made it to the final 4. MIAMI ISN'T A BLUE BLOOD.

Ole Miss and Inidiana did make it to the final 4. Re-allocation? Well NIL certainly made it easier for Inidana to compete against Ohio State and Michigan and Penn State and Oregon.

FACT: more of the top talent is being spread around over more schools than before.
Thats basically the definition of parity.

 

[paindonthurt]

Exactly!! This cannot be overstated. The SEC is now simply outgunned by the Big10. Doesn't mean we'll never win a natty but the days of dominance is over.

The days of anyone dominating is likely over. ISN'T THAT GOOD FOR MSU?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Right. Assume that >50% of wealthy alumns find the idea of illegally funneling money to football programs/players untenable. Making it legal just opened the door for people who have a strong moral compass to participate without any negative repercussions, instantly increasing the potential donor base substantially.

I understand this position but it's never really made a whole lot of sense. Rather, I think it's the immoral types who wanted to buy players, but were scared of getting their school/themselves in trouble, who are now out and about.

If someone is morally against paying money to players, why would it matter if it was legal or illegal (by NCAA standards).

 

[OG Goat Holder]

And more importantly, those players aren't coming to Mississippi State. A lot of people thought the portal would help us there, but so far it hasn't.

The only players we can get from the blue bloods are the ones who were on the bench. And we don't have a good track record there. Tyrell Shavers? That OL from West Point?

And people will say, well Ole Miss is doing it. No.....they are/were taking STARTERS from these either teams. Not benchwarmers.

My take is that the bench warmers can be serviceable and add depth, but that's about it. Not going to move the needle. Just swapping out with what we had. I'd rather develop our own depth. Rosey's latest sunshine is that guys from P4 schools "already know how to work". LOL.

I think our strategy should be the lower level starters. That's why Sneh and the guy from Rice will probably end up being our best portal takes.

TLDR? I think our portal class sucks like the last two.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I understand this position but it's never really made a whole lot of sense. Rather, I think it's the immoral types who wanted to buy players, but were scared of getting their school/themselves in trouble, who are now out and about.

If someone is morally against paying money to players, why would it matter if it was legal or illegal (by NCAA standards).

morally against breaking the rules to pay players...

 

[OG Goat Holder]

morally against breaking the rules to pay players...

You really have to be a lamebrain to change your mind over an NCAA rule.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

You really have to be a lamebrain to change your mind over an NCAA rule.

Ok… I may think it’s ok to speed but have strong convictions about breaking the law. If they raise the speed limit I will then go faster. That’s not changing my mind, that’s staying within the boundaries. NIL puts paying players inside the boundaries. This can’t be that hard of a concept…

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Ok… I may think it’s ok to speed but have strong convictions about breaking the law. If they raise the speed limit I will then go faster. That’s not changing my mind, that’s staying within the boundaries. NIL puts paying players inside the boundaries. This can’t be that hard of a concept…

No I get your point. But NCAA rules aren't any kind of law, and certainly not based in any type of true morality. If anything they were incredibly draconian.

The only reason people acted all high and mighty about 'cheating' all those years is because they were competing against whoever the alleged cheater was.

 

[HRMSU]

No I get your point. But NCAA rules aren't any kind of law, and certainly not based in any type of true morality. If anything they were incredibly draconian.

The only reason people acted all high and mighty about 'cheating' all those years is because they were competing against whoever the alleged cheater was.

There were serious consequences for getting caught not to mention there are people with lots of money that follow rules and protect their reputations.

Boosters got excommunicated when/if they got caught......imagine if it's such a big part of your life that you'd bend your morals, break rules and spend your money and at the end it's all taken away from you and you hurt your school in the process. My money would sit on the sideline.

Now that everything is legal you get boosters that were hesitant to cheat or maybe didn't think they'd see tangible results....now they can legally buy a left tackle....that's power which is what drives the wealthy.

 

[HRMSU]

The days of anyone dominating is likely over. ISN'T THAT GOOD FOR MSU?

Ok, I hope I'm wrong but my point is the days of the SEC dominating is over. As a subset of the SEC I think that hurts us.... I could be wrong.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

There were serious consequences for getting caught not to mention there are people with lots of money that follow rules and protect their reputations.

Boosters got excommunicated when/if they got caught......imagine if it's such a big part of your life that you'd bend your morals, break rules and spend your money and at the end it's all taken away from you and you hurt your school in the process. My money would sit on the sideline.

Now that everything is legal you get boosters that were hesitant to cheat or maybe didn't think they'd see tangible results....now they can legally buy a left tackle....that's power which is what drives the wealthy.

Again you're conflating legal/moral with NCAA rules. And protecting their reputation is more about themselves than it is moral.

Even if they were protecting their reputations and scared of being excommunicated, they didn't just snap their fingers and say "I disagreed with paying players before now I agree with it and will do it!". No, they wanted to pay them before, but didn't due to their again, reputation, repercussions, etc. Wasn't really about being morale.

 

[HRMSU]

I didn't say Bama has more money that the Big 10 or Texas schools. Big 10 and Texas schools still couldn't hire saban away with all that money when it was perfectly legal to hire him away and pay him boat loads of cash.

Parity was kind of proven this year. Not a single blue blood made it to the final 4. MIAMI ISN'T A BLUE BLOOD.

Ole Miss and Inidiana did make it to the final 4. Re-allocation? Well NIL certainly made it easier for Inidana to compete against Ohio State and Michigan and Penn State and Oregon.

FACT: more of the top talent is being spread around over more schools than before.
Thats basically the definition of parity.

Ok, the Saban narrative is pre-nil and pre- wide open portal or at least right at the beginning so is that really a good comparison? If I'm Saban and I'm rolling with all the advantages Bama had (including being in the hands down best conference in America) why would I leave? Those advantages have evaporated and oh, look who is sitting behind a desk on Gameday every week. You think Saban forgot how to coach? He knows Bama doesn't have the money to compete at the level he was accustomed to and he dang sure can't dog cuss the backup edge rusher or he gone.... to the portal for $$$.

We had new teams in the final four this year... not sure that means this current system has magically produced parity but can't argue that this year was different.

I agree that more of the talent is being spread around more schools but where did that talent used to concentrate? Also, where exactly is that talent going? If you are saying it's peanut butter spread across all teams creating parity I disagree. If you are saying other Big10, Big 12, ACC, and SEC teams then I agree. But, who exactly are those teams? Outliers like Indiana (which is really a freakin unicorn when you look at Cignetti, who he brought, Cuban jumping in and their alumni base that has a huge basketball following), Ole Miss and the rest are mainly programs that have achieved success in the past....think top 40-50 programs all time.

We all know where this is headed and there are limited seats on this bus.

 

[paindonthurt]

Ok, I hope I'm wrong but my point is the days of the SEC dominating is over. As a subset of the SEC I think that hurts us.... I could be wrong.

Define what you are saying.

Yes, i agree the SEC isn't going to be as dominant BECAUSE THERE IS MORE PARITY. The big 10 might win more but you are going to have more teams winning vs Ohio State 3 since 2000, alabama 6 since 2000, georgia 2 (with 3 trips), lsu 3 with 4 trips, clemson 2 with 4 trips, florida with 2.

I don't give a damn if the SEC is dominant if it isn't helping MSU.

 

[paindonthurt]

Ok, the Saban narrative is pre-nil and pre- wide open portal or at least right at the beginning so is that really a good comparison? If I'm Saban and I'm rolling with all the advantages Bama had (including being in the hands down best conference in America) why would I leave? Those advantages have evaporated and oh, look who is sitting behind a desk on Gameday every week. You think Saban forgot how to coach? He knows Bama doesn't have the money to compete at the level he was accustomed to and he dang sure can't dog cuss the backup edge rusher or he gone.... to the portal for $$$.

Yes AKA more parity!! FFS.

We had new teams in the final four this year... not sure that means this current system has magically produced parity but can't argue that this year was different.

Actually for this year you can't argue that it didnt produce more parity. This year 100% FACT MORE PARITY.

I agree that more of the talent is being spread around more schools but where did that talent used to concentrate?

100% fact more parity then. Who cares if its spread across the big 10 and the SEC? Its easier for MSU to beat top teams if we have a year like 2014 which we absolutely can. We didn't pull an ole miss in 2014 and go steal the top rated players. We evaluated talent well and got lucky landing some good recruits who turned out to be really good. Dak and Fletcher.

If MSU gets its $h1t together and has a run like we did under Mullen (which we 100% can do even with NIL), we have a much better chance of making the final 4 or 8 b/c we are playing teams with less talent than they did before.