Meridian CC catcher Wes Thigpen just committed. That's 11 2009 commitments without a camp. Who would have thought that? He originally committed to LSU his senior season. He had current offers from MSU, Tulane and USM.
Cohen just got another commitment
- Thread starter JacksonDevilDog
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Meridian CC catcher Wes Thigpen just committed. That's 11 2009 commitments without a camp. Who would have thought that? He originally committed to LSU his senior season. He had current offers from MSU, Tulane and USM.
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Goat Holder
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We are now getting all the guys they had been getting, and they reason why they've been making noise the last couple of years.
Goat Holder said:
that we're going to take some from Ole Miss to. No, we won't destroy their program, but I don't see Stephen Head slipping through our fingers anytime soon either. (Cue RebelBruiser and his merry friends) I'll take it one step further- we're going to start taking a few players from everyone else to in the region.
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it is sickening to look back at what has been going on the past several years. No one can say for sure what the future holds but John Cohen has me more fired up about anything to do with MSU sports than I've been this century.
MaxwellSmart said:
I've been reading it because I came across a copy from 1996 while I've been moving. With the recent events, it has piqued my interest.
First of all, the team goal was a CONFERENCE Championship. Not a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. That pissed me off. It also provides some insight into how Polk really felt. Not that we needed a book to figure that out.
Also, for sixpack mythbusters:
Bunting is in the book.
Stealing is in the book.
Ice IS in the book. I suspect that the pitching section was contributed to largely by Pat McMahon.
The barrel above the hands style of hitting IS in the book as well. Mutt said something about this a while back. Polk kind of seems a little defensive about this style saying it is "simply a more direct path to the ball" (paraphrase). That seems to be a style more conducive to hitting line drives- at best. He also mentioned that some may say that this style is simply "chopping at the ball".
I did not look, but I did not see anything about weight lifting. There are some stretching exercises that looked like they came out of the Karma Sutra, though. (Stratton????)
Recruiting- NOT in the book.
you're going to have to recruit nationally to do it. We barely recruit MS anymore.
We only have 10 players on the roster from MS out of 40 and 2 of those are walkons and Powers and Buckvich will be seniors this year. Our current class has 1 MS commit in Renfroe and 1 TN 2 TX 1 LA and 1 GA. All are national type guys with big time offers from the Miami, Texas and LSUs of the world.
The guys that are committed to state may very well be great but more than likely he is just trying to get his "own guys" in there with some of these. Tulane isn't what it once was and you've already got Duffy and Freeman. Do you really get excited about a guy that's probably not going to contribute...just because he's another commit? don't you think that State and OM and LSU could all sign 50 or 100 kids every year if they wanted and the rules allowed? We've got 8 players from TN 4 from MO, 7 from TX, 2 from VA and throw FL, GA and others in there. OM isn't going to sign 8 kids from MS every year just to sign a lot.
Flame away. It's just an opinion.
We only have 10 players on the roster from MS out of 40 and 2 of those are walkons and Powers and Buckvich will be seniors this year. Our current class has 1 MS commit in Renfroe and 1 TN 2 TX 1 LA and 1 GA. All are national type guys with big time offers from the Miami, Texas and LSUs of the world.
The guys that are committed to state may very well be great but more than likely he is just trying to get his "own guys" in there with some of these. Tulane isn't what it once was and you've already got Duffy and Freeman. Do you really get excited about a guy that's probably not going to contribute...just because he's another commit? don't you think that State and OM and LSU could all sign 50 or 100 kids every year if they wanted and the rules allowed? We've got 8 players from TN 4 from MO, 7 from TX, 2 from VA and throw FL, GA and others in there. OM isn't going to sign 8 kids from MS every year just to sign a lot.
Flame away. It's just an opinion.
It seems people get excited just b/c we got a commit b/c we've never publicized commits before. But our class is a mixed bag. The good thing is that we have signed 3 potentially good pitchers in Bole, Watson and Stratton. I like Bright, Parks, and Tabb. After that, im just not sure. Its hard to gauge Jucos after just one year and they are so unpredictable anyway.
Im a little disappointed that we focused mostly on MS and AL but I think its going to take a while to get our name out again. Plus Bianco has a lot of pitching accomplishments to tout to recruits. Bianco has built his program on 2 states: MS and TN. He is shying away from that now, but he's shown you can win by recruiting locally so i feel sure that Cohen can do just as well.
The good thing though is that we are trying to build a pitching staff and the best thing is that our coaching/strenght training/conditioning will be far superior to what we've had in the past.
Im a little disappointed that we focused mostly on MS and AL but I think its going to take a while to get our name out again. Plus Bianco has a lot of pitching accomplishments to tout to recruits. Bianco has built his program on 2 states: MS and TN. He is shying away from that now, but he's shown you can win by recruiting locally so i feel sure that Cohen can do just as well.
The good thing though is that we are trying to build a pitching staff and the best thing is that our coaching/strenght training/conditioning will be far superior to what we've had in the past.
I wasn't aware that commitments weren't publicized before. Very good points you make in that post. JUCOs may not be that bad an idea at first as Bianco had a lot of success with players like Cooper Osteen and Barry Gunther and Miles Franklin. It does make you sit back and wonder what the !!+$ Polk has been doing the past several years in regards to recruiting.
I agree about baseball recruiting, and it's probably even harder to get a good feel for baseball recruiting because it's not heavily publicized or followed. However, if baseball recruiting were to become big business, it would probably be a pretty good gauge if you were to look at rankings. Reason being, almost all of the top baseball talent play the sport year round, and they play their summer/fall ball in a lot of national tournaments against the best from other parts of the country. Therefore, you can actually get a pretty good read on who are truly the best national players.
All that said, I still have a hard time getting excited when we announce a commitment, because 1) I usually don't know much about them and 2) they all have ridiculous ERAs and hitting numbers.
That said, I agree with Diamond that we've lately moved to recruiting more nationally and less regionally. When Bianco started, he built his team with players from Mississippi and the Memphis area largely. Guys like Alex Presley, Seth Smith, Stephen Head, Brian Pettway, Eric Fowler, Mark Holliman, Mark Wright, Cody Overbeck, and Logan Power are all either Mississippi or Memphis area guys, and that's just naming a handful. However, the shift has definitely been to go get guys from other parts of the country.
For me, the jury is still out on whether or not that will be a good thing for us. However, it does show me that Cohen and Bianco haven't been going head to head on a ton of prospects so far.
All that said, I still have a hard time getting excited when we announce a commitment, because 1) I usually don't know much about them and 2) they all have ridiculous ERAs and hitting numbers.
That said, I agree with Diamond that we've lately moved to recruiting more nationally and less regionally. When Bianco started, he built his team with players from Mississippi and the Memphis area largely. Guys like Alex Presley, Seth Smith, Stephen Head, Brian Pettway, Eric Fowler, Mark Holliman, Mark Wright, Cody Overbeck, and Logan Power are all either Mississippi or Memphis area guys, and that's just naming a handful. However, the shift has definitely been to go get guys from other parts of the country.
For me, the jury is still out on whether or not that will be a good thing for us. However, it does show me that Cohen and Bianco haven't been going head to head on a ton of prospects so far.
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I would take those 2005 players in a heartbeat over what you've been putting on the field lately.
And I kinda think that's the point. If Cohen had been recruiting in '02 or whenever, Head would have probably been at State.
And I kinda think that's the point. If Cohen had been recruiting in '02 or whenever, Head would have probably been at State.
I know for a fact that the Heads tried to get Polk to recruit Stephen and Polk wouldn't even give them the time of day. I'm happy for them that things worked out so well for him at Mississippi and that his pro career seems to be back on track.Goat Holder said:
I had with the owner of an MSU website. He went on and on about how we didn't have room for Corley and Head, and that Corley was the far better player. Another time, he told me that Pettway didn't have a position. Then there was the time he told me Justin Henry couldn't play in the SEC. Of course, he got all this info from our recruiting coordinator.
I don't know if you've seen Duffy catch, but at times it looks like he's on roller skates back there. Freeman is good. I suspect that Duffy is either going to be A. cut or B. moved and less likely of all C. drafted high enough to leave. The last one I threw out there because you never know if Cohen is going to make him improve significantly.
I think that Thigpen will see some playing time and IF Duffy is still around he will either be moved to another position or DH.
You really need to have two catchers because of the physical demands of the position. Plus, he was at LSU at one time, so it's not like he is someone nobody wanted.
Why the hate for Tulane? They're still pretty good. Yeah, they're not like they are when they had Micah Owings, but they're still a pretty solid program.
I think that Thigpen will see some playing time and IF Duffy is still around he will either be moved to another position or DH.
You really need to have two catchers because of the physical demands of the position. Plus, he was at LSU at one time, so it's not like he is someone nobody wanted.
Why the hate for Tulane? They're still pretty good. Yeah, they're not like they are when they had Micah Owings, but they're still a pretty solid program.
Your buddy was right about Pettway. He didn't have a position. He wasn't good enough in the field to be a third baseman, and he really wasn't quick enough to play outfield. It took him a while to just be serviceable enough to allow him to play in the outfield.
However, with college baseball, you take a good bat when you can get it, and you figure out where to put them in the field later. It's funny to me though, because people forget that Pettway was really a bust up until his junior year. In his freshman and sophomore years, he only hit a handful of HRs, he struck out a lot, and he rarely did much else. His junior year, he lost some weight and broke out as a true power hitter.
However, with college baseball, you take a good bat when you can get it, and you figure out where to put them in the field later. It's funny to me though, because people forget that Pettway was really a bust up until his junior year. In his freshman and sophomore years, he only hit a handful of HRs, he struck out a lot, and he rarely did much else. His junior year, he lost some weight and broke out as a true power hitter.
futaba said:
the fact that we so grossly misevaluated talent is unbelieveable. That said, I think there were A LOT of politics that went on as far as who we recruited as well. Often times I wondered how in the hell ANYONE got to play for MSU. I think it had a lot to do with how much Polk/Raffo liked you. Of course going to the camp was impirative.
I hate to pile on Raffo, but crap like the above is why I don't think he's going to cut it as a head coach. He can't recruit.
group was different. MS was loaded in those days with guys like Seth Smith and Head and Pettway and a little later Satterwhite. Guys of that caliber are guys that OM is still going to go after and compete against State to sign. There just don't seem to be that many high quality players recently year in and year out. It's when things aren't as good that you need to be able to go out and sign the number 1 catcher in the nation like Hightower and one of the top pitchers in the nation like we have this year with the Knoxville pitcher and Pomeranz and the JUCO guys from CA and AZ and TX. You can't live on MS recruiting but you're right it is a good place to start. But I do think that Cohen is oversigning this year. But hey you can always cut kids (and all the coaches are doing this, that's right Polk) that its not that big ofa deal.
Polk is a hypocritical bastard for criticizing other coaches for cutting players and the NCAA for "forcing" coaches to cut players. I know for a fact that he cut at least one player's scholarship money back in the late 1980s, and Bulldog Bruce has posted about his personal experiences of being lied to by Polk as well.[b said:
And yes, I agree that Cohen is planning on there being a lot of attrition in the next year or so.
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you've have gotten Stratton from Tupelo. Just sayin'.
And maybe you're recruiting out of state because you don't have McDonnell? I mean let's face it, the best players out in Cali are not going to sign with UM. You're kidding yourself now if you think ya'll are getting the nation's best players.
And maybe you're recruiting out of state because you don't have McDonnell? I mean let's face it, the best players out in Cali are not going to sign with UM. You're kidding yourself now if you think ya'll are getting the nation's best players.
the reason "you aren't recruiting Mississippi" is because the players aren't as good as they were in 2005? HA!
You mean like Ethan Bright and Chris Stratton, who I believe both were offered by Ole Miss? You are no better than people that said we didn't want Zack Cozart because we had Bunky Kateon. I'm sure you didn't want Donnie Tabb either.
You mean like Ethan Bright and Chris Stratton, who I believe both were offered by Ole Miss? You are no better than people that said we didn't want Zack Cozart because we had Bunky Kateon. I'm sure you didn't want Donnie Tabb either.
I'm not saying I don't want to sign the players you mentioned like Stratton and the other guy. If they are big time college players I want to sign them. I don't know anything about those two guys in this case. All I'm saying is that it is good and necessary to have the ability to go out and recruit nationally. Or at least semi regionally. The twins we signed from VA, Hightower from GA, the Knoxville pitcher. These are players that can go anywhere they want. And they are choosing Ole Miss. What I'm saying is we aren't limited to MS and the surrounding area. We are choosing from a much bigger pool. I think Ole Miss can go and get who they want from MS for the most part but certainly not every one of them. Renfroe is a big time player and the best in MS. But every other kid we signed last year and committed now are big time too. You can't say the same for Cohen's class. I think Cohen could start expanding soon too but it will be difficult to replicate the success Bianco has had in regards to recruiting and winning.
And on the other point, I don't think McDonnell had that severe an impact on recruiting. Sure initially when he left the guys he was personally recruiting were impacted but I think when the rankings come out Ole Miss will be right around the top ten for this year. Bianco and Reinstettle are doing just fine. I mean Reinstettle had a top 15 class at Coastal Carolina and signed a first round draft pick at USA. The guy can flat recruit.
And on the other point, I don't think McDonnell had that severe an impact on recruiting. Sure initially when he left the guys he was personally recruiting were impacted but I think when the rankings come out Ole Miss will be right around the top ten for this year. Bianco and Reinstettle are doing just fine. I mean Reinstettle had a top 15 class at Coastal Carolina and signed a first round draft pick at USA. The guy can flat recruit.
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So you follow this: " There just don't seem to be that many high quality players recently year in and year out." With this: "If they are big time college players I want to sign them. I don't know anything about those two guys in this case." Hmmm...
in the last two or three years who are the best baseball players from MS? Jordan Henry is about it for OM. That's my point. There haven't been many big time players. So OM went outside the state and region and got some.
I also said that OM wasn't going to get every big time player that is in MS. The doesn't mean I don't want to sign them if they are there. This year may be differernt than the last few but I don't know because the only HS baseball player I know anything about is Renfroe. The guys Stratton and the other may very well be big time and therefore I would like to sign them (but I don't know if they are big time because I dont' know anything about them). That said OM has the ability to outside the state and fill needs if the big time players in MS aren't there or (as you make the case) are signed by MSU or someone else.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
I also said that OM wasn't going to get every big time player that is in MS. The doesn't mean I don't want to sign them if they are there. This year may be differernt than the last few but I don't know because the only HS baseball player I know anything about is Renfroe. The guys Stratton and the other may very well be big time and therefore I would like to sign them (but I don't know if they are big time because I dont' know anything about them). That said OM has the ability to outside the state and fill needs if the big time players in MS aren't there or (as you make the case) are signed by MSU or someone else.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
are you really trying to dispute that OM is one of the top programs nationally? This can't really be argued. Certainly there is a ways to go to get over the hump but we are a top contender year in and year out. How is homerish to speak factually. It is certainly difficult for a team with a losing record to get to the level that OM is at. But obviously state will have an easier time than most in trying to do that given their alumni support, tradition and what I think is one of the top young coaches in the country. Although I don't like him or his Kentucky teams. Should make the rivalry better.
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a player is "big time" only if you know about them?
You (Ole Miss) actually signed the top player in the state three years ago- Justin Reed. He went pro. Wendall Fairley (USM) signed with the Giants and then Rashaun Dixon (MSU football) this past year.
To be perfectly honest, USM has had both MSU and UM's lunch with recruiting baseball players in Ms. the past few years. I know I would have liked to have had Dozier at SS this past year for us at the very least.
Thank God we went out and got Lane Burroughs from USM via K-State.
You (Ole Miss) actually signed the top player in the state three years ago- Justin Reed. He went pro. Wendall Fairley (USM) signed with the Giants and then Rashaun Dixon (MSU football) this past year.
To be perfectly honest, USM has had both MSU and UM's lunch with recruiting baseball players in Ms. the past few years. I know I would have liked to have had Dozier at SS this past year for us at the very least.
Thank God we went out and got Lane Burroughs from USM via K-State.
My point is that you claim there aren't as many good baseball players in MS, yet you don't know anything about two of the better players in the state this year. Cody Freeman turned down pro ball. Tyler Moore was pretty highly thought of coming out of JUCO (he went to JUCO because he is not very bright, not because of a lack of ability). Paxton Pace was supposed to be a solid player, but I don't know that we will get to find out due to an injury. I am not arguing there are whole lot of talented players in the state. But that's 3 I can think of off the top of my head that are solid players that could contribute at most SEC schools (Pace being the only unknown). You can't rely on MS alone, but you damn sure can find some good players here too.
yes, OM has certainly developed a competitive program, as have many in the SEC. But there is no way in heck you can consider yourself a top program in the country when all you have to your name in the last 30 years n baseball is one SEC West title and one SEC tourney championship. With all that Bianco has done he still has not won an SEC championship nor has he reached Omaha. Heck, as average as we've been, we've got two tourney titles over the past 7 years AND a trip to Omaha. Making a few SRs does not make someone a top national program.