Colleges merging with other colleges

[615dawg]

This is going to start being a thing. The Birmingham Southern closure (and others) have small colleges looking for outs to avoid closure.

Gannon has taken over Dan Mullens Alma mater.

‘Change of Control’ approved in Gannon-Ursuline merger

The merger of Gannon University and Ursuline College reached a significant milestone this past weekend with the Higher Learning Commission’s approval of Change of Control, a crucial step toward creating the largest Catholic system of higher education along Lake Erie.

www.gannon.edu

There is no one that can legitimately look at the numbers and state that MUW or Valley should exist in any form. They are a drain on our state resources.

merging Valley with Delta State makes sense. MUW is worthless besides their nursing school, which could be recreated at MSU.

 

[John Deaux VII]

Mullen when to Ursinus.

 

[DynastyDawg]

This is going to start being a thing. The Birmingham Southern closure (and others) have small colleges looking for outs to avoid closure.

Gannon has taken over Dan Mullens Alma mater.

‘Change of Control’ approved in Gannon-Ursuline merger

The merger of Gannon University and Ursuline College reached a significant milestone this past weekend with the Higher Learning Commission’s approval of Change of Control, a crucial step toward creating the largest Catholic system of higher education along Lake Erie.

www.gannon.edu

There is no one that can legitimately look at the numbers and state that MUW or Valley should exist in any form. They are a drain on our state resources.

merging Valley with Delta State makes sense. MUW is worthless besides their nursing school, which could be recreated at MSU.

The problem with shutting down anything now days is that the libs will scream bloody murder and accuse you of killing millions of poors

 

[patdog]

This is going to start being a thing. The Birmingham Southern closure (and others) have small colleges looking for outs to avoid closure.

Gannon has taken over Dan Mullens Alma mater.

‘Change of Control’ approved in Gannon-Ursuline merger

The merger of Gannon University and Ursuline College reached a significant milestone this past weekend with the Higher Learning Commission’s approval of Change of Control, a crucial step toward creating the largest Catholic system of higher education along Lake Erie.

www.gannon.edu

There is no one that can legitimately look at the numbers and state that MUW or Valley should exist in any form. They are a drain on our state resources.

merging Valley with Delta State makes sense. MUW is worthless besides their nursing school, which could be recreated at MSU.

Of course this should have been done 40 years ago. But it’ll never happen.

 

[AttalaDawg72]

MUW ~~~> MSU Columbus
Delta State ~~~> Ole Miss Cleveland
Valley ~~~> JSU Delta Campus

 

[jethreauxdawg]

MUW ~~~> MSU Columbus
Ole Miss ~~~> Delta State Oxford
Valley ~~~> JSU Delta Campus

Fify

 

[DynastyDawg]

Fify

Delta State Oxford I think you mean

 

[HailStout]

Gannon has taken over Dan Mullens Alma mater.

was hyrule not enough???

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

merging Valley with Delta State makes sense.

My friends in Cleveland tell me DSU is in trouble as well. DSU grads are sending their kids to State and OM.

Let's not get started on JCs, way too many and they sponsor way too many sports. As the poorest state in the nation we need to completely overhaul our post HS educational system.

 

[Colonel Kang]

MUW ~~~> MSU Columbus
Delta State ~~~> Ole Miss Cleveland
Valley ~~~> JSU Delta Campus

I'd give MSU Delta State & Columbus. Ole Miss already had the Med center.

MSU is a much better fit in Cleveland due to the ag ciriculum

 

[615dawg]

I did not want to pick on Delta State because I feel Valley and MUW are in much worse condition, but yeah, Delta State is an issue for our state as well.

Our junior college system needs to be looked at as well. Sports at these JUCOs just need to be cut. Top athletes aren’t going to JUCOs anymore. They are preying on kids dreams. There is a local girl playing JUCO volleyball that couldn’t start for her under .500 high school team. It’s ridiculous.

you got two Mississippi teams playing each other for softball national championship. People are eating it up but the answer is that we emphasize JUCO sports way too much in this state. There are several states that do not even have JUCO sports. Only five have football.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

One university of Ms in Jackson. Branch campuses in every other university town including Columbus. One athletic program. Play half the home games in Jackson a few in Oxford and a few in Hattiesburg.
Combine the two land grants in Lorman and Starkville. One athletic program.
Save tons of money.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Mullen when to Ursinus.

Facts not welcome here.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I did not want to pick on Delta State because I feel Valley and MUW are in much worse condition, but yeah, Delta State is an issue for our state as well.

Our junior college system needs to be looked at as well. Sports at these JUCOs just need to be cut. Top athletes aren’t going to JUCOs anymore. They are preying on kids dreams. There is a local girl playing JUCO volleyball that couldn’t start for her under .500 high school team. It’s ridiculous.

you got two Mississippi teams playing each other for softball national championship. People are eating it up but the answer is that we emphasize JUCO sports way too much in this state. There are several states that do not even have JUCO sports. Only five have football.

Cut cut cut cut cut.

Mind you these are your fellow Mississippians’ jobs. Not that you care. Just muh CUT!!!!111. nOt NeEdEd - unless it’s my job

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Point of Order— Don’s Alma Mater is Ursinus College just outside Philly— not Ursuline which is a women’s school outside Cleveland and is merging with Gannon.

FWIW, John Marszalek who taught history at State and brought the Grant association papers to MSU previously was a prof at Gannon…

 

[leeinator]

This is going to start being a thing. The Birmingham Southern closure (and others) have small colleges looking for outs to avoid closure.

Gannon has taken over Dan Mullens Alma mater.

‘Change of Control’ approved in Gannon-Ursuline merger

The merger of Gannon University and Ursuline College reached a significant milestone this past weekend with the Higher Learning Commission’s approval of Change of Control, a crucial step toward creating the largest Catholic system of higher education along Lake Erie.

www.gannon.edu

There is no one that can legitimately look at the numbers and state that MUW or Valley should exist in any form. They are a drain on our state resources.

merging Valley with Delta State makes sense. MUW is worthless besides their nursing school, which could be recreated at MSU.

MUW has a very unique culinary arts dept. which is producing a lot chefs to a lot of high profile eating establishments nationwide. They also produce a lot of quality teachers. All that could be moved to MSU, but I seriously doubt the IHL will merge MUW with anybody. They have some serious high dollar alums with a lot of influence with the IHL and the Legislature.

 

[PrimeDog]

The problem with shutting down anything now days is that the libs will scream bloody murder and accuse you of killing millions of poors

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

Mississippi Alcorn Southern Jackson Delta Valley State University. Good ol' MASJDVSU!

 

[Maroon Pug]

was hyrule not enough

 

[GloryDawg]

It will force alumni to step up and donate. Having a degree from a college that doesn't exists any more would suck.

 

[DynastyDawg]

View attachment 836892

I don’t even know what you’re trying to imply

 

[QuaoarsKing]

One recent precedent is the state of Georgia consolidating Armstrong State into Georgia Southern in 2017.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

One recent precedent is the state of Georgia consolidating Armstrong State into Georgia Southern in 2017.

Yeah. That was part of a bunch of consolidation in Georgia during the 2010s that hasn’t stopped.

For example, the USG approved consolidating East Georgia State into Georgia Southern back in April:

Board of Regents Approves Georgia Southern University, East Georgia State College Consolidation | Communications | University System of Georgia

www.usg.edu

 

[OG Goat Holder]

My friends in Cleveland tell me DSU is in trouble as well. DSU grads are sending their kids to State and OM.

Let's not get started on JCs, way too many and they sponsor way too many sports. As the poorest state in the nation we need to completely overhaul our post HS educational system.

At least give some facts that back these things up.

If you're talking about helping MSU, I certainly could see a case for some consolidation. But that might not be best for the state. However, I don't pretend to know academia, but I do know education needs to be viewed as an investment rather than a simple profit making equation. Obviously we should do that responsibly with wise investment choices.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Delta State’s financial issues are well known.

They began offering free tuition to Mississippi residents a couple months ago so let’s see what happens…

Delta State announces program offering free tuition to Mississippi students - SuperTalk Mississippi

Beginning in the fall of 2025, some new college students will be able to attend Delta State University free of charge.

www.supertalk.fm

As far as JUCOs are concerned, they’re all about low cost.

The fact that athletics seem to work for them can largely be attributed to two things: 1. concentration of scholarships given to Mississippians and they can make the argument that athletics helps Mississippians; 2. the fact that enough colleges in Mississippi agreed to play sports likely means that they’ve reached a point where it is cost-effective for athletics to develop throughout the state at that level since Mississippi JUCOS are their own league— and unlike other jucos they tend not to go to out of state contests unless national playoffs are involved…

 

[Beretta.sixpack]

Delta State is in bad shape....ive heard lawmakers on supertalk say delta state to UM, MUW to MSU, and Valley to Jackson St......as someone mentioned above.

 

[615dawg]

Alcorn State has 2,138 full time students
Delta State has 1,705 full time students.
MUW has 1,601 full time students
MVSU has 1,223 full time students

That's 4 of our 8 public universities that barely have more full time students combined than our fourth largest school (Jackson State).

The problem is that 4 of our 8 public universities are affinity colleges (HBCU or in MUW's case, historically female). There is no political capital for doing what needs to be done.

Valley has the second lowest athletic revenue among Division I schools at $3.9 million. Under $4 million to run a 15-sport Division I operation.

The JUCO athletic programs are a joke to the taxpayer. EMCC runs a $1.2 million deficit in athletics every year.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Alcorn State has 2,138 full time students
Delta State has 1,705 full time students.
MUW has 1,601 full time students
MVSU has 1,223 full time students

That's 4 of our 8 public universities that barely have more full time students combined than our fourth largest school (Jackson State).

The problem is that 4 of our 8 public universities are affinity colleges (HBCU or in MUW's case, historically female). There is no political capital for doing what needs to be done.

Valley has the second lowest athletic revenue among Division I schools at $3.9 million. Under $4 million to run a 15-sport Division I operation.

The JUCO athletic programs are a joke to the taxpayer. EMCC runs a $1.2 million deficit in athletics every year.

Why are you using the number of students as a gauge of whether they need to be closed?

The only true case for consolidation is MSU and MUW, which would then simply be called MSU-MUW campus or something like that. They would still exist. What are you gaining?

 

[Duke Humphrey]

Alcorn State has 2,138 full time students
Delta State has 1,705 full time students.
MUW has 1,601 full time students
MVSU has 1,223 full time students

That's 4 of our 8 public universities that barely have more full time students combined than our fourth largest school (Jackson State).

The problem is that 4 of our 8 public universities are affinity colleges (HBCU or in MUW's case, historically female). There is no political capital for doing what needs to be done.

Valley has the second lowest athletic revenue among Division I schools at $3.9 million. Under $4 million to run a 15-sport Division I operation.

The JUCO athletic programs are a joke to the taxpayer. EMCC runs a $1.2 million deficit in athletics every year.

The last 3 on your list are either going to be closed or close themselves due to lack of enrollment and ability to cover their expenses.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

Considering that MS is going to be body-slammed by the lack of in-state student college enrollment in the next 5 years, those complaining that "they should be closed but there's no political will to do the right thing" will largely take care of itself.

The enrollment cliff is going to reach beyond just Alcorn, DSU and Valley. It's going to hit every institution. It's why UM has been aggressively courting out of state students for the last decade. MS student population has been shrinking and continues to, so the national trend will be felt here (and in WV!) the hardest.

 

[mstateglfr]

Our junior college system needs to be looked at as well. Sports at these JUCOs just need to be cut. Top athletes aren’t going to JUCOs anymore. They are preying on kids dreams. There is a local girl playing JUCO volleyball that couldn’t start for her under .500 high school team. It’s ridiculous.

you got two Mississippi teams playing each other for softball national championship. People are eating it up but the answer is that we emphasize JUCO sports way too much in this state. There are several states that do not even have JUCO sports. Only five have football.

Alcorn State has 2,138 full time students
Delta State has 1,705 full time students.
MUW has 1,601 full time students
MVSU has 1,223 full time students

That's 4 of our 8 public universities that barely have more full time students combined than our fourth largest school (Jackson State).

The problem is that 4 of our 8 public universities are affinity colleges (HBCU or in MUW's case, historically female). There is no political capital for doing what needs to be done.

Valley has the second lowest athletic revenue among Division I schools at $3.9 million. Under $4 million to run a 15-sport Division I operation.

The JUCO athletic programs are a joke to the taxpayer. EMCC runs a $1.2 million deficit in athletics every year.

Since you are plugged into higher ed in MS, maybe you would know...
- Can JUCOs increase their tuition costs? It would cost an extra $300 or so per student to cover that athletics deficit.
- Can JUCOs decide to drop a specific sport or is that some group decision by a state agency or whatever? If dropping football meant that $1MM was saved, then that athletics deficit would be significantly lower and when spread among all the teams and players, it could easily be seen as a very minor cost. This says EMCC spent $1.07MM on football in 2018(unsure of how much revenue it generated).
- Is it your view that colleges at all levels should only provide athletics and extra-curricular activities which are a net0 spend or better against the budget? If that isnt your view, is that your view for JUCO specifically?

 

[615dawg]

JUCOs have become state and federal funded 13th and 14th grade. Most, if not all of them fully scholarship every student with a 20 ACT, and then those with househiold incomes under ~$40k receive Pell Grants. MS residents also receive the $500 MTAG for two years at our JUCOs.

I personally believe that community colleges' missions should be to develop workforce for the counties they serve. Instead they have become a cross between a high school and a university. We have a great community college system, but they need to renew their focus. EMCC is the best in the state at this. NWCC is good. Everyone else needs some soul searching.

JUCOs can make their sports decisions on their own. Meridian CC doesnt have football, but they are the only JUCO in the state with swimming. They have to go to Florida and New York to compete. JUCOs are starting to add other sports, mainly volleyball.

JUCO sports are governed by the NJCAA. There is a Mississippi Community College Athletic Conference that governs our JUCOs. The NJCAA acts on a region system, but MS and LA are a region and LA only has four JUCOs that compete in sports (out of their 12), so the NJCAA region is pretty much Mississippi schools.

Football is the big one. Kansas, Mississippi and Minnesota are the only states where the majority of their JUCOs play football. Texas (6) and Iowa (3) have multiple schools but no where near all of their schools. There are a handful of independents scattered throughout the country. One school in Oklahoma sponsors football and plays with the Texas schools.

My view is that community and junior colleges were created to build the workforce and universities are meant for academic and extracurriculars. The majority of the nation agrees with this view. Junior College sports are a waste of time and money and should be eliminated. We have entered this world where we celebrate athletic accomplishment way too much. JUCO sports are a terrible product in the current landscape of college sports. Gone are the times where the five star that couldnt make grades ends up in Scooba or Independence. The transfer portal has taken care of the kids that get in trouble that need rehabilitated.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I personally believe that community colleges' missions should be to develop workforce for the counties they serve. Instead they have become a cross between a high school and a university. We have a great community college system, but they need to renew their focus........

My view is that community and junior colleges were created to build the workforce and universities are meant for academic and extracurriculars. The majority of the nation agrees with this view. Junior College sports are a waste of time and money and should be eliminated. We have entered this world where we celebrate athletic accomplishment way too much.

Hey wait a minute. They do serve the workforce. Most of the shaved arm JUCO flameout bro crowd comes back and opens a cage, gives lessons and coaches the local travel ball teams.

 

[615dawg]

Nothing irritates me more than when good high schools like Prep, JA, MRA, Brandon, NWR, Madison Central, Germantown, et. al. hold signing day ceremonies for athletes wasting their time at Jones or Pearl River. I'd be embarrassed if I dropped $18k a year tuition for 13 years and ended up at a JUCO with degenerates just so I could say "I played college sports"

We need to start being truthful with young athletes. For 90 percent of them, an above average focus on their classes will net more scholarship money than they will receive athletically.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

JUCOs have become state and federal funded 13th and 14th grade. Most, if not all of them fully scholarship every student with a 20 ACT, and then those with househiold incomes under ~$40k receive Pell Grants. MS residents also receive the $500 MTAG for two years at our JUCOs.

And that fits perfectly with the original and still current mission to educate Mississippians as inexpensively as possible.

I personally believe that community colleges' missions should be to develop workforce for the counties they serve. Instead they have become a cross between a high school and a university. We have a great community college system, but they need to renew their focus. EMCC is the best in the state at this. NWCC is good. Everyone else needs some soul searching.

They’ve LONG been a cross between high school and college— and that’s by design.

Their hybrid academic and career tracks are also by design.

We all know folks who’ve received academic education from jucos. Many of us are among them— among myself.

Jucos are part of the workforce development agencies for the state of Mississippi which has branched out over the past several years to include many other state agencies.

EMCC is good at it as are Northwest, Pearl River, Jones, Gulf Coast, and Hinds.

Speaking of which I’m looking forward to their new Nursing & Allied Health Center that’s under construction at Pearl. That’ll revitalize their program by attracting more students.

JUCOs can make their sports decisions on their own. Meridian CC doesnt have football, but they are the only JUCO in the state with swimming. They have to go to Florida and New York to compete. JUCOs are starting to add other sports, mainly volleyball.

Probably where their national qualifiers compete.

I know Meridian has had a few meets at Delta State.

JUCO sports are governed by the NJCAA. There is a Mississippi Community College Athletic Conference that governs our JUCOs. The NJCAA acts on a region system, but MS and LA are a region and LA only has four JUCOs that compete in sports (out of their 12), so the NJCAA region is pretty much Mississippi schools.

Football is the big one. Kansas, Mississippi and Minnesota are the only states where the majority of their JUCOs play football. Texas (6) and Iowa (3) have multiple schools but no where near all of their schools. There are a handful of independents scattered throughout the country. One school in Oklahoma sponsors football and plays with the Texas schools.

Football is a larger expense (EMCC’s annual deficit is well known) but we all know that there are deficits and there are “deficits”.

How much of those deficits are negated by booster fund monies and/or also serve as loss leaders to prompt students to spend more by purchasing from jucos?

I’d wager the deficits are largely very manageable across the board. If they weren’t, schools would drop athletics programs.

Re: your Southwest Conference example:

New Mexico Military Institute is also in that league with the Texas & Oklahoma schools. They won a National JUCO football title a few years ago.

Their quarterback went on to D1. He’s a guy we’ve all heard about— Diego Pavia.

 

[DawgInThe256]

I remember this being discussed even in the late 80's. I got the impression then that any solution that eliminated a HBCU was a non-starter.

There was also a proposal to elimintation duplication of majors, and as a CS major I distinctly remember the proposal was to move all Computer Science to JSU.

 

[bsquared24]

Can someone please explain to me how "combining colleges" saves any worthwhile amount of money? There doesn't need to be a MSU-Columbus, if it can't stand on its own it should be shuttered. Higher Ed will change dramatically in the next 20 years and better schools don't need to be taking on any units that haven't proven themselves. I'm fine with states sprinking JUCO's that focus on job trainings around the state but 4 year schools that provide liberal arts educations are a thing of the past and money losers.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

I think the issue is that the HBCU can't remain open if enrollment falls below a threshold that makes the school unable to offer core services, like any other school. The politicians might get an out on this one.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

Can someone please explain to me how "combining colleges" saves any worthwhile amount of money? There doesn't need to be a MSU-Columbus, if it can't stand on its own it should be shuttered. Higher Ed will change dramatically in the next 20 years and better schools don't need to be taking on any units that haven't proven themselves. I'm fine with states sprinking JUCO's that focus on job trainings around the state but 4 year schools that provide liberal arts educations are a thing of the past and money losers.

I would think that the majority of cost savings from combining colleges is eliminating the administrative costs from the smaller unit. I don't know how much of a savings this is in the real world, but higher ed administrative costs are always high with redundant positions.

 

[615dawg]

Same as consolidating K-12 school districts. You save on administrative costs, which are a huge expense in higher education. You don't have to duplicate Provost and Registrar functions for example.

The fact is that Delta State does not survive without its athletic department. Half their students are athletes and their athletic department is burning cash as it is. I think the answer is to not look at things like MSU-Columbus or Ole Miss-Cleveland, but rethink how we look at these universities altogether.

For example, we could turn MUW into Mississippi Higher Education Center at Columbus.

UMMC could run their nursing school and expand allied health offerings
MSU could offer a handful of degrees like education or business
EMCC could expand and offer more in Columbus

Delta State and MVSU can become the Mississippi Higher Education Centers of the Delta

MSU could offer agricultural based associate and bachelor degrees
Again, UMMC could come in with some healthcare offerings and Ole Miss could offer something.
The Delta community colleges could expand

There is a test going on in Pearl right now. You can go to Hinds in Pearl and get an associate degree in education, and Ole Miss is teaching the last two years there in Pearl. Its not a full Ole Miss campus like Tupelo or MSU-Meridian. Its just an education school in the Metro.

These "Higher Education Centers" will serve their communities better, but no sports.

See a little how this model works in Texas: https://mcallen.tamu.edu/

The Higher Education Center at McAllen offers eight degrees and a Pharmacy Tech program that serves that part of Texas. A&M runs this one. Tech runs others.

In Virginia: https://www.swcenter.edu/

Multiple colleges in one center. I think that's the route Mississippi should go.