Columnist Clay Travis thinks Dirk Nowitzki is

msubullie4life · May 17, 2011

<div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">"You Larry Bird people are living in 1986. At their prime no NBA team takes Bird over Dirk. Not one."</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "></div>

</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">

<div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">"If Dirk was American he'd have passed Bird already. Or if the 2006 finals wasn't rigged."</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "></div>

</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">

<div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">"You Larry Bird 1986 dwellers also need to stop with the tougher defense argument. 2011 NBA > 1986 NBA. Not close on D."</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "></div>

</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">
</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">To me, it is Larry Bird. End of discussion.</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">
</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">Discuss.</span></div></div></font></span>

msubullie4life · May 17, 2011

<div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">"You Larry Bird people are living in 1986. At their prime no NBA team takes Bird over Dirk. Not one."</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "></div>

</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">

<div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">"If Dirk was American he'd have passed Bird already. Or if the 2006 finals wasn't rigged."</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "></div>

</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">

<div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">"You Larry Bird 1986 dwellers also need to stop with the tougher defense argument. 2011 NBA > 1986 NBA. Not close on D."</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "></div>

</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">
</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">To me, it is Larry Bird. End of discussion.</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">
</span></div><div class="tweet-text pretty-link" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; word-wrap: break-word; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">Discuss.</span></div></div></font></span>

Requiem For A Dawg · May 17, 2011

Dirk isn't even the top 5, maybe even the top 10. Bird. Stockton. West. Pistol. Cousy. Mikan. Nash. All those guys are better and they are just off the top of my head.

dawgman42 · May 17, 2011

Requiem For A Bulldog said:
Dirk isn't even the top 5, maybe even the top 10. Bird. Stockton. West. Pistol. Cousy. Mikan. Nash. All those guys are better and they are just off the top of my head.

Bird is the only one I'd put above Dirk. No doubt that West, Maravich, and the others were great players. As one who has watched Dirk for 10 years now, I've seen no one elevate their game and change how they played ball 9 or 10 years into their career the way Dirk has. Rather than be a 7-foot jump shooting, soft Euro, he's decided to put that frame--as non-athletic a build in an age of low-skilled muscle in the post--to better use, driving the lane, taking the pounding and getting to the line.

I think Bird is still a better player, without question. But not a one you named--including West--has the complete skillset that Dirk has at this point in his career. Not a one.

FlabLoser · May 18, 2011

D Wade didn't just get the usual superstar benefit of the doubt from the officials. When the Heat needed to make a run, D Wade was awarded a call over and over no matter how far a defender was from touching him.

bonedaddy401 · May 18, 2011

He is the best 7 foot shooter of all time. If he wanted to have 20 assists a night he could. He he wanted to have 15 rebounds a night he could. He knows what his teams need him to do and he putsthemon his back and his about tocarrythem to the finals for a second time.

EmoryBellard · May 18, 2011

cdog.sixpack · May 18, 2011

Saying any of them,including Cousy and Marivich,other than Bird is ignorant. Was hoping some others would point this out. Other than Bird those others don't have the array of skills(shooting, rebounding, defense, passing, clutch shooting)Dirk has. Dirk has been more consistent than any of them.The only reason Bird would even be considered better at this point is rings. Dirk's longevity may ultimately put over Bird as the best though. I'd say if Dirk wins a ring this year he would move into top 10 all-time player in my opinion.

Seinfeld · May 18, 2011

In the draft, the Mavericks drafted Traylor with their sixth pick, and
the Bucks selected Nowitzki with their ninth and Garrity with their
nineteenth pick. The Mavericks then traded Traylor to the Bucks for
Nowitzki and Garrity, and they in return traded the latter to Phoenix
for Nash.

Mavericks lose Traylor and Garrity
Mavericks gain Nowitzki and Nash

Wow...

Hanmudog · May 18, 2011

I hate the Celtics as much as anyone but Bird in his prime was a much better all around player than Nowitski. Bird did have a better team around him but that also contributed to him having a lower scoring average. Bird could put up 30 a night easy if he needed to. Bird was also arguably the greatest passing forward of all time and was not too bad on the boards for a guy that could not jump over the free throw stripe.

Hanmudog · May 18, 2011

Bird averaged more points, assists, rebounds, and steals. Plus he had a better field goal percentage and free throw percentage.

Bird 24.3 ppg 10.0 rb 6.3 ast 1.7 stls .496 FG .886 FT .376 threeptrs
Nowitski 23.0 ppg 8.4 rb 2.7 ast 0.9 stls .458 fg .877 ft .381 threeptrs

Johnson85 · May 18, 2011

cdog said:
...Dirk's longevity may ultimately put over Bird as the best though. ...

Had Birdnot had back issues, it'd probably be close. I can't saywho was better at their prime, but considering that Dirk hasn't really had a drop off in his game yet, and has theskillsto be a solid second and/or third best playeryears beyond his prime, I'm not sure it's even going to bea close call if you're picking which career you'd want your next draft pick to have.

thunderclap · May 18, 2011

and I'm happy with my chances.

Maroon Eagle · May 18, 2011

End of discussion.</p>

Hanmudog · May 18, 2011

Johnson85 said:
cdog said:

...Dirk's longevity may ultimately put over Bird as the best though. ...

Click to expand...

Had Birdnot had back issues, it'd probably be close. <font color="#cc0000">I can't saywho was better at their prime</font>, but considering that Dirk hasn't really had a drop off in his game yet, and has theskillsto be a solid second and/or third best playeryears beyond his prime, I'm not sure it's even going to bea close call if you're picking which career you'd want your next draft pick to have.

Here are two of Bird's better seasons, Dirk has certainly not had a season any better than either of these two.

84-85 28.7 ppg 10.5 rb 6.6 ast 1.6 stl .522 fg .427 3pt .882 ft
87-88 29.9 ppg 9.3 rb 6.1 ast 1.6 stl .527 fg .416 3pt .916 ft

Arthur2478 · May 18, 2011

msubullie4life said:
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px; ">"You Larry Bird 1986 dwellers also need to stop with the tougher defense argument. 2011 NBA > 1986 NBA. Not close on D."</span>

He's out of his damn mind. The Lakers, Pistons, Celtics of the mid 80s would dominate today's NBA. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Barkley, Drexler, Ewing, etc, etc, etc, etc. The NBA was loaded with talent in the mid-80s.

Hanmudog · May 18, 2011

MStateDawg said:
msubullie4life said:

<span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 18px" class="Apple-style-span">"You Larry Bird 1986 dwellers also need to stop with the tougher defense argument. 2011 NBA > 1986 NBA. Not close on D."</span>

Click to expand...

He's out of his damn mind. The Lakers, Pistons, Celtics of the mid 80s would dominate today's NBA. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Barkley, Drexler, Ewing, etc, etc, etc, etc. The NBA was loaded with talent in the mid-80s.

Also don't forget the Sixer teams with Dr. J, Moses Malone, Bobby Jones, and Andrew Toney........which later on included a young Round Mound of Rebound.

seshomoru · May 18, 2011

who you think was better is determined by how old you are.

I was 4 and 7 for those two season's of Bird's you just listed. I don't exactly remember watching him play they much, and I don't think Saturday morning cartoons showed a lot of Celtics highlights. I'm getting to watch pretty much all of Dirk's career, which started when I was 17. Larry Legend's ended when I was 12.

Dirk is ridiculous and pretty much a type of player that has never been seen before. Bird was a transcendent player in a different NBA. It's apples to oranges, and being white is really the only similarity.

So in conclusion, people's opinions are going to be based on who they saw first. I assume Larry was as amazing as people say he was. I can actually watch and see how amazing Dirk is. I pick Dirk.

Requiem For A Dawg · May 18, 2011

cdog said:
Saying any of them,including Cousy and Marivich,other than Bird is ignorant. Was hoping some others would point this out. Other than Bird those others don't have the array of skills(shooting, rebounding, defense, passing, <span style="font-weight: bold;">clutch shooting</span>)Dirk has. Dirk has been more consistent than any of them.The only reason Bird would even be considered better at this point is rings. Dirk's longevity may ultimately put over Bird as the best though. I'd say if Dirk wins a ring this year he would move into top 10 all-time player in my opinion.

He is widely known as a choke artist in big games.

VirgilCain · May 18, 2011

Every time I see that guy's highlights, I think about how he'd probably be cut by most good high school basketball teams today. His game was THAT old school.

Now, I'm sure I just pissed off one of you nostalgic, "Back in my day" old-timers... so flame away

Requiem For A Dawg · May 18, 2011

bonedaddy401 said:
He is the best 7 foot shooter of all time. <span style="font-weight: bold;">If he wanted to have 20 assists a night he could.</span> He he wanted to have 15 rebounds a night he could. He knows what his teams need him to do and he putsthemon his back and his about tocarrythem to the finals for a second time.

I would really love to see that since he currently averages 2.7 a game for his career. Too bad he doesn't "want to."

Hanmudog · May 18, 2011

Seshomoru said:
who you think was better is determined by how old you are.

I was 4 and 7 for those two season's of Bird's you just listed. I don't exactly remember watching him play they much, and I don't think Saturday morning cartoons showed a lot of Celtics highlights. I'm getting to watch pretty much all of Dirk's career, which started when I was 17. Larry Legend's ended when I was 12.

Dirk is ridiculous and pretty much a type of player that has never been seen before. Bird was a transcendent player in a different NBA. It's apples to oranges, and being white is really the only similarity.

So in conclusion, people's opinions are going to be based on who they saw first. I assume Larry was as amazing as people say he was. I can actually watch and see how amazing Dirk is. I pick Dirk.

I get what you are saying but I did not have to watch Wilt Chamberlain to know he was incredible.

Dirk is a great scorer butthe rest of his gameis just not that impressive. I mean the guy is seven foot but has never averaged double digit rebounds. He has never averaged more than 4 assists a game.Sure Dirk scored 48 last night. Bird did that plenty of times and even scored 60 once.

MemphisMaroon · May 18, 2011

Not surprised by this at all. The king of the know-nothing half-assed sports journalists that are currently flooding the market.

seshomoru · May 18, 2011

Hanmudog said:
I get what you are saying but I did not have to watch Wilt Chamberlain to know he was incredible.

Dirk is a great scorer butthe rest of his gameis just not that impressive. I mean the guy is seven foot but has never averaged double digit rebounds. He has never averaged more than 4 assists a game.Sure Dirk scored 48 last night. Bird did that plenty of times and even scored 60 once.

But who was better, Shaq or Wilt? I'm not saying Larry wasn't awesome. I'm saying I get to see Dirk be awesome and take people's word for it on Larry. That's going to skew my opinion.

Knocking Dirk for not averaging double digit rebounds is completely ignoring what type of player he actually is simply because he's tall. Dirk is not a post player. He's a guard that happens to be 7 feet tall. If you look at his rebounding stats, he's at 8-9 per game the majority of his career, with only slightly more than 1 per game on the offensive end. So in reality, he gives you what you'd expect on the defensive end from someone his size, and pretty much what you'd expect from a guard on the offensive end.

And who gives a crap about assists when you played with Nash and Kidd. Assists isn't what he's supposed to do. He's supposed to get the ball from those guys and score. Stats are pretty irrelevant when comparing Bird and Dirk. Two completely different players in different eras who both put up awesome numbers for what they are asked to do. They just both happen to be white so we try to compare them.

Hanmudog · May 18, 2011

That is my point. Bird actually was a better scorer AND averaged double digit rebounds while playing on the perimeter PLUS he usually led his team in assists too. There is no telling what Bird's scoring average would have been if all he was asked to do was score like Nowitski.

I have seen them both play on TV and in person and there ain't a doubt in my mind which one I would take......Bird. And this is coming from a die hard Laker fan.

JimHalpert.nafoom · May 18, 2011

He comes out with these ******** articles every few months just to get people riled up and so he can do the whole "I just went there" thing.

bonedaddy401 · May 18, 2011

Youhonestlybelieve a player of Dirks ability couldn't average more than three assists a game is asked to? Thats not his role, his role is to be the point producer.

Hanmudog · May 18, 2011

bonedaddy401 said:
Youhonestlybelieve a player of Dirks ability couldn't average more than three assists a game is asked to? Thats not his role, his role is to be the point producer.

Then how do you explain Bird's ability to score more than Nowitzki while also outrebounding and outassisting him? Bird was the point producer for his team too and still did all those things.

I think some of you just saw Dirk last night and suddenly think he is the most awesome white guy ever but if watched that game where Bird scored 60 I think your opinion would be much different so I guess Sesh has a good point.

bonedaddy401 · May 18, 2011

hatfieldms · May 18, 2011

...which is what is really important

jakldawg · May 18, 2011

strained contrarianism to get a rise out of people. Or to put it another way: he trolls with the ease of a bored Rivals.com poster.

cdog.sixpack · May 18, 2011

No he's not. His clutch shooting in late games was a big reason he won the 2006-2007 MVP award(granted his whole team layed a big egg in the playoffs that year). This article is from last year. clutchshooter. Its shows basically he's a better shooter in the clutch than just about anyone playing today. He's averaging over 25 ppg in the playoffs for his career. He may have had a bad game here or there in the playoffs, but he is not widely considered a choke artist.

Hanmudog · May 18, 2011

I did find this article about Bird and thought it was kinda cool.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/362157-25-years-ago-bird-lights-up-hawks-for-60-record

hotdigitydog · May 18, 2011

Both were/are great shooters.......Bird is a better rebounder and much better passer......End of discussion..........</p>

klerushund · May 18, 2011

We're comparing Nowitzki to a guy who for kicks shot only left handed layups in a game and finished it with 47 points (22 from lefty shots) 14 rebounds and 11 assists.?<div>
</div><div>Also, Dirk plays TERRIBLE defense. Bird was one of the Celtics best defenders. It's not even close. The Legend is the greatest cracker of all time.</div><div>
</div><div><span> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/R76nMD8buR8?f=videos&app=youtube_gdata" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355" allowScriptAccess="never" ></embed> </span>
</div>

mstateglfr · May 18, 2011

That **** is as cocky as you can get and I love it. All lefty layups?!?! Some of those were done in spite of having a better chance at making the shot with his right hand. Awesome.

That game was deathly slow. 10x slower than the current style of play. Bird wouldn't have been able to get 70% of those shots of today. Now maybe that means he just shoots everything with his dominant hand and cruises along without a hitch, who knows. But it was obvious that play is way slower than now.

Hanmudog · May 18, 2011

mstateglfr said:
That **** is as cocky as you can get and I love it. All lefty layups?!?! Some of those were done in spite of having a better chance at making the shot with his right hand. Awesome. That game was deathly slow. 10x slower than the current style of play. Bird wouldn't have been able to get 70% of those shots of today. Now maybe that means he just shoots everything with his dominant hand and cruises along without a hitch, who knows. But it was obvious that play is way slower than now.

Actually I think it was faster back then. Keep in mind the Celtic team in that video did not play an up anddown the court style with McHale, Walton, Parish, and Birdout there. The Showtime Lakers of the 80's played at a faster pace than any team in the NBA today.

Also we are not talking about 50 years ago here. Bird was around long enough to play against much of the same competition that Jordan did and the league was not watered down with 30+ teams and a bunch of guys that should still be in college.

mstateglfr · May 18, 2011

As I posted, that game was deathly slow.
Can't say I remember much of bird in the early and mid80s...or NBA play then.

Mr Meoff · May 18, 2011

The Pistol.<div>
</div><div>And no, I am not that MF'ing old. I just have heard about this guy from my dad my whole life. I have to say from what I can tell, he came into the old-school NBA and brought all kinds of **** no one had ever seen before. You can see where Bird got the ballfake layup, you can see Magic's no-look pass, Jordan's double-clutch layup, etc. On one of these youtube comments, some guy says they did a study of all his shots at LSU and he would've averaged 57 ppg with a 3-point line. Averaged.</div><div>
</div><div>This whitey changed the game.</div>

Columnist Clay Travis thinks Dirk Nowitzki is

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Junior

All-American

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All-American

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All-American

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Sophomore

Junior

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Sophomore

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JimHalpert.nafoom

Guest

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All-Conference

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All-American

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All-American

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