Committee bias called out on the Herd

Buckaineer

New member
Sep 3, 2001
7,294
59
0
Bob Bowlsby definitely needs to get himself and the coaches on tv to address this bias before its too late.
 

Orlaco

Active member
Dec 13, 2007
29,168
289
83
...yea...beg...

..that'll gIve the conference the respect we think it deserves....
 

3xWVUenginEER

New member
Dec 7, 2005
6,818
65
0
The other theory is only the last poll matters and the others are worthless except to generate controversy and interest.

And then if it's like last year just select the best 4 schools plausible for TV ratings and throw the résumés out the window.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GoWVU

GetYaNumbersUp

New member
Mar 15, 2013
8,163
39
0
I don't give a **** if the Big 12 is left out, WVU is never going to make the playoffs anyway as we don't recruit well enough.
 

WESTBGVA

Member
Jan 25, 2002
13,041
35
28
I hope Baylor and Ok St both get whupped....I recall a 6-5 Ole Miss team winning a bowl game and they were jumping up and down chanting..SEC,SEC,SEC...I would like to believe we're not that pathetic...yet
 

ThePunish-EER

New member
Aug 19, 2005
13,313
58
0
I don't give a **** if the Big 12 is left out, WVU is never going to make the playoffs anyway as we don't recruit well enough.
the WV inferiority complex alive and well.

KState says hello. Snyder has won 10+ games a year over 10-12 times and 11 wins about 5 times. Recruiting isn't just about stars. If they can, we can.
 

Buckaineer

New member
Sep 3, 2001
7,294
59
0
WVU is in the BIG 12 and going to be in the BIG 12. The only playoff spot possible is through the BIG 12.

If the BIG 12 is being dissed, it's a problem for WVU in terms of exposure, recruiting and lost revenues.

If the conference is being snubbed as they are, it impacts the future of not only the conference, but WVU itself.
 

GetYaNumbersUp

New member
Mar 15, 2013
8,163
39
0
WVU is in the BIG 12 and going to be in the BIG 12. The only playoff spot possible is through the BIG 12.

If the BIG 12 is being dissed, it's a problem for WVU in terms of exposure, recruiting and lost revenues.

If the conference is being snubbed as they are, it impacts the future of not only the conference, but WVU itself.

First, I don't care about any other Big 12 schools, I'd even enjoy seeing Baylor in particular be left out. As long as WVU's program is floundering in mediocrity, it's not going to matter if a big 12 school makes the playoffs or not.

Baylor and Okie State should play a real OOC schedule and maybe the committee would take them seriously. Besides, WVU likely won't won't be in the Big 12 anyway in 15 years so IDGAF.
 

Buckaineer

New member
Sep 3, 2001
7,294
59
0
First, I don't care about any other Big 12 schools, I'd even enjoy seeing Baylor in particular be left out. As long as WVU's program is floundering in mediocrity, it's not going to matter if a big 12 school makes the playoffs or not.

Baylor and Okie State should play a real OOC schedule and maybe the committee would take them seriously. Besides, WVU likely won't won't be in the Big 12 anyway in 15 years so IDGAF.

If you are a fan of WVU it absolutely matters. Money, recruiting, exposure are going to be left on the table. You obviously aren't actually a fan of WVU if you think WVU will always be "mediocre". WVU has periods of success and periods of average play throughout its history and nothing is different now. They may win 9 games this season yet.

The BIG 12 is in trouble if its going to be artificially snubbed every year and that will be disastrous for WVU--then you won't have to whine about not making the playoffs because WVU will never even have a shot.
 

GetYaNumbersUp

New member
Mar 15, 2013
8,163
39
0
If you are a fan of WVU it absolutely matters. Money, recruiting, exposure are going to be left on the table. You obviously aren't actually a fan of WVU if you think WVU will always be "mediocre". WVU has periods of success and periods of average play throughout its history and nothing is different now. They may win 9 games this season yet.

The BIG 12 is in trouble if its going to be artificially snubbed every year and that will be disastrous for WVU--then you won't have to whine about not making the playoffs because WVU will never even have a shot.


WVU has been playing football for over 100 years and there's been 2 seasons where they have been ranked in the top 4 at the end of the year. Playoffs aren't happening and especially not with this coaching staff.

Baylor or another Big 12 schools helps THEIR recruiting and exposure, but doesn't do **** for WVU. whatever chunk of money we'd get for the Big 12 making the playoffs, every other school in the league would get also, so who cares?
 

Buckaineer

New member
Sep 3, 2001
7,294
59
0
WVU has been playing football for over 100 years and there's been 2 seasons where they have been ranked in the top 4 at the end of the year. Playoffs aren't happening and especially not with this coaching staff.

Baylor or another Big 12 schools helps THEIR recruiting and exposure, but doesn't do **** for WVU. whatever chunk of money we'd get for the Big 12 making the playoffs, every other school in the league would get also, so who cares?


You must not be very smart-no use trying to explain it to you. Intelligent fans understand the importance of success for WVU's conference--guess you don't care if WVU gets the exposure, revenue or recruiting boost having your conference in the playoffs brings. Too busy whining about a currently .500 coach that could finish this season 9-4 with losses to only top 15 teams-one in OT.
 

ThePunish-EER

New member
Aug 19, 2005
13,313
58
0
You must not be very smart-no use trying to explain it to you. Intelligent fans understand the importance of success for WVU's conference--guess you don't care if WVU gets the exposure, revenue or recruiting boost having your conference in the playoffs brings. Too busy whining about a currently .500 coach that could finish this season 9-4 with losses to only top 15 teams-one in OT.
yeah there's no sense in explaining it to him/her. Typical uneducated responses from some of these people.
 

GetYaNumbersUp

New member
Mar 15, 2013
8,163
39
0
You must not be very smart-no use trying to explain it to you. Intelligent fans understand the importance of success for WVU's conference--guess you don't care if WVU gets the exposure, revenue or recruiting boost having your conference in the playoffs brings. Too busy whining about a currently .500 coach that could finish this season 9-4 with losses to only top 15 teams-one in OT.

Please tell me how Baylor making the playoffs increases WVU's exposure or recruiting? The only exposure WVU gets when people talk about Baylor is how we are a "bad loss" (last year) for them or not a quality win (this year). I'm sure recruits love that kind of exposure.

WVU's recruiting will always be around the same, between 5-20 spots outside the top 25. It hasn't improved much since joining the Big 12, and if has, where are all the good players?
 

Buckaineer

New member
Sep 3, 2001
7,294
59
0
Last year Delaney was on the horn to the committee regularly- excusing away all their losses.

Bowlsby now needs to be on the horn talking up the real successes of the conference. Great offenses and better defensive performances as pointed out on the cowherd show , than they are credited with.

The rankings must reflect the best teams, not be a means for the "pushiest" of the members to artificially elevate their schools high up into the rankings.

Why should Ohio State be ahead of Baylor or OSU?

Why did Iowa jump Baylor for beating Indiana?

They made noise about conference champions into this season and are now awarding independent Notre Dame?

SEC and BIG 12 schools placed far ahead of their rankings in other polls?

BIG 12 schools far below the other polls?

So far it's a total crock and the BIG 12 and maybe PAC will have to make some noise about it if they want change.
 

Pushingtin

New member
Nov 1, 2010
5,204
143
0
You must not be very smart-no use trying to explain it to you. Intelligent fans understand the importance of success for WVU's conference--guess you don't care if WVU gets the exposure, revenue or recruiting boost having your conference in the playoffs brings. Too busy whining about a currently .500 coach that could finish this season 9-4 with losses to only top 15 teams-one in OT.
Get real, you saying someone isn't very smart.......If you have been around then you would know that Getyour has been a very big Dana supporter as long as I know. Dana just isn't a very good coach you will understand once your rose colored homer glasses come off.....I've known for several years.

As for bias...get real. There is no bias. The Big12 problem is that it is very top heavy with Baylor being the only team up to this point with an argument to be in top 4. But I can look at every team ahead of them and make an argument for them as well. Oklahoma lost to a pitiful Texas team and TCU has been lucky no have been undefeated up until last week. Iowa has been playing good football...why aren't they in top 4.
 

HurdyGurdyEer

New member
Aug 18, 2012
3,108
69
0
I can't believe that some of you have clouded this thread with discussion about WVU, recruiting, etc.

Joel Klatt and Colin Cowherd have done college football a great service. Klatt's observations, though simple, are brilliant. Here's hoping that Klatt, Cowherd, Bowlsby, and others take this ball and keep running with it. This topic needs to be FORCED into the national discussion.
 

Buckaineer

New member
Sep 3, 2001
7,294
59
0
I can't believe that some of you have clouded this thread with discussion about WVU, recruiting, etc.

Joel Klatt and Colin Cowherd have done college football a great service. Klatt's observations, though simple, are brilliant. Here's hoping that Klatt, Cowherd, Bowlsby, and others take this ball and keep running with it. This topic needs to be FORCED into the national discussion.

This issue does need to be forced into the national discussion. It can't be allowed to continue unchecked and unmentioned. If there's going to be a four team playoff it has to be based on merit and not a few using undue influence to push their conferences in no matter what.
 

GetYaNumbersUp

New member
Mar 15, 2013
8,163
39
0
I think the best 4 teams in college football are the ones currently in the top 4. Baylor plays absolutely zero defense, and OK State has had way too many close calls against bad teams (us, KSU, Texas) and they don't have a running team.

OK State and Baylor played a PATHETIC OOC schedule, that didn't include a P5 team for either one.
 

Pushingtin

New member
Nov 1, 2010
5,204
143
0
I think the best 4 teams in college football are the ones currently in the top 4. Baylor plays absolutely zero defense, and OK State has had way too many close calls against bad teams (us, KSU, Texas) and they don't have a running team.

OK State and Baylor played a PATHETIC OOC schedule, that didn't include a P5 team for either one.
Baylor is only team I could somewhat make an argument for but I can also see why they aren't in top 4. You are correct about the pathetic schedule of the big12 and that TCU and Pokes have been skirting losses all year long against bad teams(sadly that includes us). Only team in top 4 I have problem with is ND but I think Stanford will take care of that.
 

ThatNehlenFeelin

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2011
49,789
767
113
Well they took a system that was all cold hard computer formulas and added the human element... Which is extremely biased and can be bought out. Well done College Football.
 

Samuel S

Member
Aug 1, 2014
670
192
43
First, the BCS was not all computer formulas. Human polls were used as well.

Second, "computer formulas" do not generate themselves. A human being designs and constructs them using subjective value judgments to decide what factors to employ and how to weigh those factors relative to one another. The fact a computer does the math does not make it reliable, valid or objective. The only true positive about models is that they are internally consistent in producing the results for every team. Consistency and true accuracy are very different things.

Third, it's rather silly to think that any system, polls, computer models, a combination of the two or a selection committee can ever approach perfection. It's also fairly easy to see that people will support whatever particular method happens to coincidentally produce the results with which they agree.

The only truly "fair" way to decide would be impossible in practice. Every team can't play every other team so that "last man standing" is the indisputable champ.

The problem now is quite simply that 4 teams is not enough most years to include every team for which someone can make a plausible argument that it's worthy.

Having people who know the sport well, have watched all the games involving potential teams and are committed to selecting the "best" teams free from cheerleading interests is the smartest way to decide. Stats and models are at most somewhat useful in making very close calls.

There will always be a cut-off and a last team out, and people who support that team or its conference will always be unhappy.

If that team questionably 8th-9th (or higher) its exclusion will be more easily justified than if the question is whether it's 4th-5th.
 

HurdyGurdyEer

New member
Aug 18, 2012
3,108
69
0
While Klatt's perspective needs to be widely discussed I think a good route to ultimately go is an 8 team play-off; 5 conference champs and 3 at-larges. There won't be the human element involved in choosing the first five teams. And it would be possible for a non-P5 school to get in.

Or .... four 16 team super conferences with two divisions each. Each conference has a championship game with the two divisions champs. Then the committee seeds the conference champs from 1-4, but does not choose the teams for the playoff. But no schools outside of the 4 conferences could get into the play-off.

It would take an unprecedented level of cooperation between the P5 conferences, TV, and the NCAA to pull off the second scenario. But I honestly do not how you can begin to address Klatt's perspective without doing one of those things.
 

Samuel S

Member
Aug 1, 2014
670
192
43
On the second method, you would have to demote a couple of teams for 4x16. It would also ignore the reality that in any given year different conferences will be better or worse and the champ of one conference might not be as good as multiple teams that could, in scenarios likely to occur with some frequency, be mandatorily excluded by a single loss. I have no problem with champs automatically getting in, but I do with non-champs automatically being eliminated.

You'd also further devalue the regular season because even if teams played all 12 games in conference, the schedules would vary a good bit even within conferences, especially in years where one division was significantly better than the other. A single upset by a relatively mediocre Division winner would get it to the "final four" while any number of "better" teams in or out of that conference would be excluded.

I like the 8 team with auto-bids for the P5 champs and three at-large with a committee making the at-large selections and doing the seeding.. It's not perfect either but it achieves the best balance
 
Last edited:

HurdyGurdyEer

New member
Aug 18, 2012
3,108
69
0
The 5+3 scenario is also about as close as you could get to the flavor of the NCAA basketball tourney. Then, of course, you still have the other bowl games for teams not in the Elite 8.
 

Samuel S

Member
Aug 1, 2014
670
192
43
That would be my first choice.

Second would be 6 with byes for 1-2, as that would let all teams with a justifiable claim in the vast majority of years. There would be very few years anyone without a rooting interest would think #7 truly got rooked.

Third would be 12 with byes for 1-4, as that is the most I think could ever even have an arguable claim . The problem with that is it would usually be too many teams.
 

pressvirginia

New member
May 23, 2015
8,088
133
0
The problem is the subjective view of 1-loss teams. Certain 1-loss teams have and will be subjectively selected ahead of other 1-loss teams.

Last year 3/4 were 1-loss teams. The latest ranking has 2/4 with 1 loss. There must be a penalty for losing. It's unfair competition if there ever was such a thing.

The other asinine part of this is the notion that it doesn't matter IF you lose but rather WHEN you lose. Obnoxious. That notion I predict will keep the BXII on the outside again as the schedule makers thought it would be wise to give the upper half of the league all of their toughest games in succession in November & December. All that has done is give the committee ammunition to say well you've played no one to date & it gives them timeliness to punishes late losses. The BXII has no one to blame but themselves there.

No matter how the committee members justify themselves, no matter which style of play and brand names they prefer, it is simply unfair and completely biased to penalize some 1-loss teams and reward and look past the losses of others.
 

Samuel S

Member
Aug 1, 2014
670
192
43
Most years there will not be more than eight undefeated and 1 loss Power 5 teams. When it does happen the team that gets excluded will likely have glaring weaknesses and a terrible schedule. More often, it would likely come down to 2 loss teams. Still sucks if it is your team, but lose 2 games and most people won't sympathize much with you complaint.
 

eers1foru_rivals

New member
Feb 6, 2012
3,143
42
0
It's this simple. If WVU were to be in the running for a playoff spot, I wouldn't want conference affiliation to be the reason they are left out. The Big XII needs teams to participate and win some games in the stiff to be seen as equal. If you think WVU recruiting is down now, wait til they find out The BIGXII has become a laughing stock.
 

VaultHunter

New member
Apr 15, 2014
13,233
1,058
0
This committee nonsense won't last long Ohio State is awarded a pass because they haven't played anyone difficult YET. But the Big12 teams are being left out for the same reason.

"Eye test" and "game control" are determining factors but the committee cannot see with their "eyes" that Baylor has been in "control" of every game it has played.

And Alabama's loss to Ole Miss is ok but TCU's loss to Oklahoma State is unacceptable.