Comparing Stans to the John Brady situation at LSU

[Irondawg]

This isn't mean to be pro or anti-Stans, but some stuff to consider.

Let's start with Brady's record at LSU
<table style="font-size: 95%;" class="wikitable"><tbody><tr><td style="background: rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-color: rgb(170, 170, 170); border-bottom-width: 2px; border-bottom-style: solid;" colspan="9" align="center">LSU (SEC) (1997–2008)</td></tr><tr><td>1997–1998</td><td>LSU</td><td>9–18</td><td>2–14</td><td>6th (West)</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>1998–1999</td><td>LSU</td><td>12–15</td><td>4–12</td><td>6th (West)</td><td></td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(255, 221, 153);"><td>1999–2000</td><td>LSU</td><td>28–6</td><td>12–4</td><td>1st (West)</td><td>NCAA Sweet 16</td></tr><tr><td>2000–2001</td><td>LSU</td><td>13–16</td><td>2–14</td><td>6th (West)</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>2001–2002</td><td>LSU</td><td>19–15</td><td>6–10</td><td>T–4th (West)</td><td>NIT 2nd Round</td></tr><tr><td>2002–2003</td><td>LSU</td><td>21–11</td><td>8–8</td><td>T–2nd (West)</td><td>NCAA 1st Round</td></tr><tr><td>2003–2004</td><td>LSU</td><td>18–11</td><td>8–8</td><td>T–2nd (West)</td><td>NIT 1st Round</td></tr><tr><td>2004–2005</td><td>LSU</td><td>20–10</td><td>12–4</td><td>T–1st (West)</td><td>NCAA 1st Round</td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(255, 221, 153);"><td>2005–2006</td><td>LSU</td><td>27–9</td><td>14–2</td><td>1st (West)</td><td>NCAA Final Four</td></tr><tr><td>2006–2007</td><td>LSU</td><td>17–15</td><td>5–11</td><td>6th (West)</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>2007–2008</td><td>LSU</td><td>8–13</td><td>1–6</td><td>6th (West)</td><td></td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(250, 250, 250); border-top-color: rgb(170, 170, 170); border-top-width: 2px; border-top-style: solid;"><td colspan="2" align="center">LSU:</td><td>192–139</td><td>74–93</td><td colspan="5"></td></tr></tbody></table>
Inconsistent, but he did havethe nice Final 4 banner only two years prior

Then compare to Stans:
<table style="font-size: 95%;" class="wikitable"><tbody><tr><td>1998–1999</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>20–13</td><td>8–8</td><td>T–3rd (West) </td><td>NIT 1st Round</td></tr><tr><td>1999–2000</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>14–16</td><td>5–11</td><td>T–5th (West) </td><td></td></tr><tr><td>2000–2001</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>18–13</td><td>7–9</td><td>T–4th (West) </td><td>NIT Quarterfinals</td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(255, 255, 153);"><td>2001–2002</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>27–8</td><td>10–6</td><td>2nd (West) </td><td>NCAA 2nd Round</td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(187, 255, 255);"><td>2002–2003</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>21–10</td><td>9–7</td><td>1st (West) </td><td>NCAA 1st Round</td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(255, 221, 153);"><td>2003–2004</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>26–4</td><td>14–2</td><td>1st (SEC) </td><td>NCAA 2nd Round</td></tr><tr><td>2004–2005</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>23–11</td><td>9–7</td><td>3rd (West) </td><td>NCAA 2nd Round</td></tr><tr><td>2005–2006</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>15–15</td><td>5–11</td><td>5th (West) </td><td></td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(187, 255, 255);"><td>2006–2007</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>21–14</td><td>8–8</td><td>T–1st (West) </td><td>NIT Final Four</td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(187, 255, 255);"><td>2007–2008</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>23–11</td><td>12–4</td><td>1st (West) </td><td>NCAA 2nd Round</td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(255, 255, 153);"><td>2008–2009</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>23–13</td><td>9–7</td><td>3rd (West) </td><td>NCAA 1st Round</td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(187, 255, 255);"><td>2009–2010</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>24–12</td><td>9–7</td><td>T–1st (West) </td><td>NIT 2nd Round</td></tr><tr><td>2010–2011</td><td>Mississippi State</td><td>17–13</td><td>9–7</td><td>2nd (West) </td></tr></tbody></table>
Stans does not have any deep runs, but has a greater success of getting teams in the tourney

Now LSU went and hired Trent Johnson who I thought wasa good hire at the time and he paid immediate dividends. But then they were horrid for 2 years and are mediocre this year. Watching them play they're even more undisciplined than us on offense often taking terrible shots. But they hustle a bit more. Personally after watching his teams more I just don't think he's going to be a great coach at LSU - decent, but really not much better than what they had.
<table style="font-size: 95%;" class="wikitable"><tbody><tr><td style="background: rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-color: rgb(170, 170, 170); border-bottom-width: 2px; border-bottom-style: solid;" colspan="9" align="center">LSU (SEC) (2008–present)</td></tr><tr style="background: rgb(255, 221, 153);"><td>2008–2009</td><td>LSU</td><td>27–8</td><td>13–3</td><td>1st</td><td>NCAA Second Round</td></tr><tr><td>2009–2010</td><td>LSU</td><td>11–20</td><td>2–14</td><td>6th (West)</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>2010–2011</td><td>LSU</td><td>11–20</td><td>3–13</td><td>6th (West)</td></tr></tbody></table>

Are you happy with this?

 

[msudawg200]

Brady's situation really is fairly similar to the situation with Stans. Stans has been more consistent as we'll have made the postseason in some form in 12/14 years versus only 6/11 for Brady. Stans will also have 6/7 NCAA appearances out of 14 versus only 4 out of 11 for Brady, but obviously the sweet16 and especially that final four banner make up huge ground for Brady.

As far as overall performance, I think some may prefer Stans, some may prefer Brady. It just really depends on whether you prefer to be consistently good or have a couple really good seasons but also some pretty bad seasons. If Stans doesn't make the tourney this year, then I'd probably have to take Brady's run overall because that Final Four is huge. I think it's pretty close if Stans makes it this year because that will put him at a 50% overall rate of making the NCAA tourney.

I also think that it wasn't just Brady's overall record that got him fired. I seem to remember them struggling with attendance as well and just an overall apathy for the program (which is still present there) that I think probably played a role in his firing.

It is an interesting comparison though, and I do agree that I don't see Trent Johnson ever being a great hire for them. I think they'll have their cycles where they have decent teams, and I do think they'll be pretty solid next year, but I don't expect him to ever make a Final Four there.

 

[patdog]

Brady's decline at the end was a lot faster and a lot worse than Stans's. LSU might have fired Brady a little too soon, maybe they should have at least given him to the end of his last season. I think Stans has done enough to deserve to keep his job, but it he doesn't make the tournament this year, it's time for him to go. Your followup with a comparison to what LSU has done under Brady Johnson is something everyone needs to look at. Most people thoughtit was a great hire when they hired Brady Johnson (there was one poster who didn't and when he pointed out Brady's Johnson's record he convinced me back then too). Just goes to show that hiring a coach to take you to the next level isn't nearly as automatic as a lot of people think it is.

Edited to fix the errors that msudawg2000 pointed out.

 

[msudawg200]

Your followup with a comparison to what LSU has done under Brady is something everyone needs to look at. Most people thoughtit was a great hire when they hired Brady (there was one poster who didn't and when he pointed out Brady's record he convinced me back then too). Just goes to show that hiring a coach to take you to the next level isn't nearly as automatic as a lot of people think it is.

Did you mean Trent Johnson? If so, I agree with you. I definitely do not think it's automatic that we sign a good coach, which is why I'm not fully on the "fire Stans" train yet. I do think our university would do everything possible to bring a good name to the program, but like you said (or I think you were saying), people thought Trent Johnson was a great hire for LSU then but not so much now. It's just hard to know.

That said, I think my allegiances to/against Stans will be determined by the last few weeks of this season. He has to get us to the tourney, or I think he should be gone.

 

[Hdc]

While I agree that making the tournament would probably save his job, I don't think it should. All you sheep that think he should keep his job if he makes it to the tournament obviously have very, very short term memories and/or have set your goals extremely low for our program. Regardless of the outcome this year, can you honestly say that you are proud of the product Stans has been putting on the floor this year and that past few? Can you honestly say that you like going to home games against inferiorteamsand have to hope and pray we can pull it out at the end of the game. Are you proud to have a head coach who publicly states that our team is an underdog at all away SEC games and should not expect to hold a double digit lead? </p>

 

[CadaverDawg]

and I must say that this chart really opened my eyes to how consistent Stans' teams have been for the most part over his career.....But, it still doesn't change my opinion on us needing to get rid of him if we don't make the tourney.

You can go back and look at the strength of the conference during certain years, the schedules out of conference, attrition, depth, etc... and find certain reasons why certain programs did better in certain years, and it definitely isn't always the coach making things happen the way they do (good Or bad). I think what finally has me to the point of wanting him gone is that our fans aren't enjoying the product, it's an under achieving product, Stans doesn't seem to have that fire and Want to win, and neither do his teams as a result. Call it the type of players, call it the coaching, call it whatever, but at the end of the day the buck stops with the Head Coach. And Winsome Frazier and Derrick Zimmerman, Bowers and Power, etc, had a desire to win and played a different brand of ball than we play now. I think ultimately it's Rick's job to get those types of players in there, or motivate the ones he has gotten, and then get the most out of them....and he hasn't. I really like Stansbury though, and I hate that he hasn't been able to get over the hump. I really thought this year he would see what he had in the form of talent, and really work his *** off to do one of his best coaching jobs ever, and get to the sweet 16. Unfortunately it's not a switch you can just turn on apparently.

Sorry for the Bruiser-esque response

 

[Irondawg]

i totally agree with what Cadaver is stating - most fans are most frustrated with the fact that the players don't seem to care half the time. If we played like we did against KY against the rest of the SEC schedule very few would be complaining even if the record wasn't much better for some reason.

that's my opinion anyway.

 

[Irondawg]

deleting double post</p>

 

[anon1754664043]

Brady took over a program with severe scholarship limitations from probation, I think his first four season he was limited to 8 or 9 scholarships....I think he won the SEC his third or fourth season with players he recruited........he was fired a year and a half after going to the Final Four , his last team had several injuries.....when everybody returned from injuries and with Brady recruits, Trent Johnson won the SEC his first season and has been mediocre or worse every since. Brady won two SEC Championships.... went to one Sweet Sixteen and had another Final Four season.

Stansbury took over a program that had recently been to a Sweet Sixteen and a Final Four, neither of which have we sniffed in 14 seasons.

 

[was21]

nm

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Nm