Cop shoots man inside his own home
- Thread starter BigSexyCat
- Start date
Feel free to address the points I’ve made and tell me where they're a bad idea and flawed.
Are we discussing if the cop was morally justified or legally justified?
Because only one of those matters. Guess what, the Cop will be legally justified in his use of force.
Just like here in KY. If you have reason to believe there is imminent threat to your life, the use of deadly force is justified. Even if it turns out there was no actual threat.
Because only one of those matters. Guess what, the Cop will be legally justified in his use of force.
Just like here in KY. If you have reason to believe there is imminent threat to your life, the use of deadly force is justified. Even if it turns out there was no actual threat.
No one has stated the things you mentioned are unreasonable, whereas you have stated the cop shooting into a house is reasonable under the circumstances as we know them.
This incident did not occur on a street corner, and it is not at all clear or certain the homeowner "pointed his gun" at the cop first. However, even if he did, he was standing inside his lawful residence and behind a closed door that he never opened, yet the cop chose to blast away.
If you point a gun at the police they are probably going to shoot you. The owner did nothing to help the situation and he easily could have, We are discussing this because he Made it worse in every possible way.
There is no evidence that he (blindly) pointed a gun at anyone. All we know is that he had a gun, not what he did with it.
Some items and facts that are being overlooked:
FWIW at the 4:54 mark in the video you can see where the homeowner was in the window next to the door but weather he pointed the gun at the officer is unclear but the police still state in the video the homeowner pointed the gun at the officer.
As stated earlier in the thread the medical alarm was sent from his mother in laws phone that lived in the house with them not his nor his wife's phone. When the alarm company and dispatch called back it was his mother in laws phone they were calling. One would reasonably think she was sleeping in a different room. The cell phone could have also been silenced overnight by the mother in law.
Someone does not always have to be in the wrong. If I was the homeowner I would have done the same thing including flashing the gun. Reason being is to show whoever it was that I was packing and he better get the f*ck off my lawn. If I was the cop I would have done the exact same thing. Numerous calls were made, doorbell rang and no one answered and then in the darkness of night you see what could be a potential burglar pointing a gun at you. Moral of the story is that sometimes **** just happens.
FWIW at the 4:54 mark in the video you can see where the homeowner was in the window next to the door but weather he pointed the gun at the officer is unclear but the police still state in the video the homeowner pointed the gun at the officer.
As stated earlier in the thread the medical alarm was sent from his mother in laws phone that lived in the house with them not his nor his wife's phone. When the alarm company and dispatch called back it was his mother in laws phone they were calling. One would reasonably think she was sleeping in a different room. The cell phone could have also been silenced overnight by the mother in law.
Someone does not always have to be in the wrong. If I was the homeowner I would have done the same thing including flashing the gun. Reason being is to show whoever it was that I was packing and he better get the f*ck off my lawn. If I was the cop I would have done the exact same thing. Numerous calls were made, doorbell rang and no one answered and then in the darkness of night you see what could be a potential burglar pointing a gun at you. Moral of the story is that sometimes **** just happens.
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No one is saying otherwise. However, that does not mean the shooting is justified -- and particularly in regards to this shooting.
The fourth rule of gun safety for anyone, but especially a (supposedly) trained police officer, is to be sure of your target and what's behind it. Please take a moment and explain how the officer knew exactly who was inside the house/behind the door when he fired. I'll save you the trouble. It was physically impossible for that idiot cop to know. That fact alone means it was a bad shoot. Hell, for all the cop knew there could have been a couple kids milling around and yet the dumbass starts firing indiscriminately.
We know he didn’t do any of the good things I mentioned, which suggest he most likely did point the gun. The owner was in the best position to avoid this mess, inexplicably he failed across the board.
The cop is not free of blame here and I never said he was, my point is the owner had the most opportunities to avoid this and he did none of them. To blame the cop exclusively is wrong, regardless of the end result.
The city will agree to pay the homeowner a lot of money and the police will get to technically say they were not guilty. The end.
Since the homeowner didn’t call 911 and confirm who was at his door, it therefore logically follows he then drew down on a cop? [laughing]
Nice non sequitur.
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You’ve repeatedly implied the shooting was justified, yet not overtly stated it. Again, simple question: Given the circumstances as we know them, do you feel the cop was justified firing into the house, yes or no?
The cop stated in the video that the owner pointed a gun at him, given the owner did none of the things that normal people do when your doorbell rings late at night I tend to believe the cop.
I'd bet a hundo it's gonna be ruled a bad shoot. It's really not even a close call.
I think the lesson here Mav is know your apps, bundle alarm apps into one icon to layer steps as a preventative measure. Don’t be too shy to open dialogue first, communication is key. Change the bulb on your porch out regularly, consider a doorbell that rings the phone you won’t answer. Clean the windows you won’t look out of, never know what you might find out there.
This same cop also first said he opened the door and pointed the gun at him which after releasing the body cam video we clearly see that did not happen.
IMO the cop panicked, his mind was racing and thought he was seeing things that his mind knew could be there. He shot the guy because he thought he was the bad guy without making an attempt to confirm who he was. That is reckless and not the kind of person that needs to carry a gun.
It's also very suspicious that the audio right before and during the shooting was not released. Disturbing as well is that the officer if felt threatened didn't call for back up before deciding the fire on a guy that looks to be walking away from him. Had the officer had his emergency lights on, used his PA, and waited for back up this wouldn't have happened.
There is not a police force in the country that approves of its officers blindly discharging their weapons into residences under the circumstances as we currently know them. Any shooter, civilian or cop, is legally responsible for each and every round they send down-range, and firing multiple rounds into a residence in the manner in which the cop did (i.e. without knowing who else was inside the house/behind the door) is indefensible. While the officer probably won't face criminal charges, a civil lawsuit is obviously a given -- and I'd wager another hundo he will be fired/relieved of his duties...as should be the case.
Given what we know now? Of course it's a bad shoot. The officer did not know what we know now.
What he knew is a panic alarm went off. We now know it was medical, but he was only told panic. He also didn't know the person with the gun was the homeowner.
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I will not bet, but his shooting will be justified. They will lose a civil suit, but nothing criminal for the officer.
I'll also add that from the video the officer never identified himself as a police officer until after he shot the man. After the deputy shoots him you hear the home owner repeatedly ask "who are you" and to call the cops to which the deputy then informs him who he is.
I'm not arguing in hindsight. My statement "given what we know now" simply means, "what we currently know during this part of the investigation."
I am saying the officer cannot justify firing his weapon -- regardless of whether he only knew it was a panic alert and even if he did not know it was medical -- into a residence because he could not possibly know who else he might be shooting.
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I am blown away by the fact people think police can shoot through your door. When you clearly are not a clear and present danger. You are in your house.
I guess what is next is the cop peeks through my window, and sees me walking naked to the shower then arrests me for public indecency.
I guess what is next is the cop peeks through my window, and sees me walking naked to the shower then arrests me for public indecency.
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It's disconcerting how parts of our society are so quick to give up their liberty to a government official.
I will not bet, but his shooting will be justified. They will lose a civil suit, but nothing criminal for the officer.[/QUOTE]
I bet the cop loses his job.
I just took something out of my refrigerator.
I hope there's not a cop looking in the window that shoots me for stealing.
I hope there's not a cop looking in the window that shoots me for stealing.
Dude's in a dead sleep and his wife wakes him up and tells him someone is trying to get in the front door. He grabs a gun and heads down the steps to see a 50,000 candlepower light shining in his eyes. No way he could have seen who was behind the light.
Prudent thing to do for a trained officer, who doesn't panic, is to move to the side and identify himself.
As was stated, what if the guy had a hostage between him and the door? Would it have been justified to kill an innocent?
Bad shoot.
Prudent thing to do for a trained officer, who doesn't panic, is to move to the side and identify himself.
As was stated, what if the guy had a hostage between him and the door? Would it have been justified to kill an innocent?
Bad shoot.
LOL #5 is COMPLETELY wrong. Cops kill unarmed black citizens and still get to keep their jobs. That’s a big part of why cops are trash. Well, the racists and the pussies at least.