Croom documentary article in Daily Journal

[Todd4State]

Apparently, Croom says he "didn't have any support within the athletic dept." during his last year. Basically said that Byrne didn't support him. Ummm....Sly- that was because you were LOSING. To La Tech. Now we ***** about beating a Sun Belt team by only 20.

He also said that he was led to believe that the Bama job was his and someone in the chain of command said no- I bet it was Mal Moore who used to coach with him and knew he would be in over his head. Whoever made that decision probably chose the lesser of the two evils because I can't see Croom doing any better and probably worse than Shula did.

He then goes on to say he didn't want the MSU job because he didn't want to be the "token black coach in the SEC", but yet he was OK being the token black coach in the SEC at Bama?

And I thought this was funny:

"Sylvester Croom's legacy won't be found in the won/loss column." In other words- he royally sucked as a coach.

 

[FlabLoser]

What a coincidence. We didn't want him to be a token coach either.

 

[was21]

all his love for Alabama...not only was he passed over by them for their HC job, he applied for a minor position corching job under Saban, and he didn't get the job. The man is a pariah.

 

[Spanky.sixpack]

Doesn't this mean.....

He also said that he was led to believe that the Bama job was his and someone in the chain of command said no

.....that the Alabama AD make an absolutely great decision??? I hope this show is not going to try and paint the picture that everyone was out to get Sylvester Croom. ****, I know better.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

All Croom had to do was put a consistently competitive team on the field

I don't know any MSU fan that wanted him to fail.
Watching his offense, was worse than a trip to the dentist, evey GD week.
He got fired because we were not improving, on the heels of a decent season.

45 - 0... I was there, ugly.

 

[AlSwearengen]

when he started yammering about it taking a player two years to learn his offense, I knew something didn't compute. My no football knowing *** can figure out that the player's career is half over before he even knows the offense. When he made that statement, I sort of figured out that he wasn't going to do very well.

 

[maroonmadman]

I really don't get all the hate for Sly.

I'll be the first to agree, he DID suck as a head coach. He was in over his head. He did however clean up a bunch of malcontents and was a decent person. We've had had worse coaches here. Much worse. Rockey Felker was one. Us older folks remember Tech and ten. We remember starting off 6-1 in Felkers first season and completely sucking over the final 4 games. That was Rockey's best season. Rockey however was one of us so we kinda give him a hall pass. We won't even discuss the '60's when suckage was the status quo here at State. Simply put, we've been there and done that before so I can't really grasp why some of you folks have such an intense hard on for old Sly. Yes he sucked but we've had suck-*** coaches before and got over it. Time to get over old Sly now folks.


Having said all that I'll say this. Once you suck at State you're not going to get a chance to suck again. We're the death blow of coaching. You suck here and you'll never get another head coaching gig. Felker, Croom and other from the past too numerous to mention all failed here and went on to fail nowhere else aGAIN. You might get an assistants job but that'll be about it. That one thing they all have in common.


My opinion may change depending on how this up coming documentary portrays us and whether Sly turns into a whiny *****. That is all.

 

[SixtonPackerish]

I won't be watching. Saw enough, heard enough during our five year exile from college football. He will throw MSU under the bus, except for the one who hired him. He'll most likely throw the entire state under the bus. We all know the state of Alabama is oh so much better. He will piss and moan about not getting hired at Alabama but they'll still be okay in his book. Obviously the state is, he's got three homes in Alabama. This will all come down to his being a "token" (his willingness notwithstanding), the "po black man" having to make a living in the South, blah, blah, blah.

And for the record, I don't believe he cleaned up ****. He brought in his own brand of undisciplined players and tried to pass them off as better. He did have some good guys, just as any coach does, but he didn't have a team of church going angels as he wanted us to think. He simply is incapable of coaching college football. Alabama knew it, wouldn't hire him. LT made a deal with the devil. We did the penance.

 

[MSUDawg4Life]

I'll be the first to agree, he DID suck as a head coach. He was in over his head. He did however clean up a bunch of malcontents and was a decent person. We've had had worse coaches here. Much worse. Rockey Felker was one. Us older folks remember Tech and ten. We remember starting off 6-1 in Felkers first season and completely sucking over the final 4 games. That was Rockey's best season. Rockey however was one of us so we kinda give him a hall pass. We won't even discuss the '60's when suckage was the status quo here at State. Simply put, we've been there and done that before so I can't really grasp why some of you folks have such an intense hard on for old Sly. Yes he sucked but we've had suck-*** coaches before and got over it. Time to get over old Sly now folks.


Having said all that I'll say this. Once you suck at State you're not going to get a chance to suck again. We're the death blow of coaching. You suck here and you'll never get another head coaching gig. Felker, Croom and other from the past too numerous to mention all failed here and went on to fail nowhere else aGAIN. You might get an assistants job but that'll be about it. That one thing they all have in common.


My opinion may change depending on how this up coming documentary portrays us and whether Sly turns into a whiny *****. That is all.

I agree with you. People act like Croom is the worst coach we've ever had. That is far from true. He was bad, but MSU football history is littered with coaches who were as bad or worse than Croom.

Like all of us, the man had is strengths and weaknesses. Good and bad points. Some don't want to admit it, but Croom did lay the foundation for the success we're experiencing now. He got rid of the riff-raff and put in place a culture that stressed discipline and hard work. Taking care of business in the classroom. Like it or not, that made Mullen's transition easier because he didn't have to do that and could just come in and install his system.

This hatred and ridicule of all things Croom is unwarranted and it's long past time that we let it go. Yes, it's true that he didn't win, but that's also true of almost all past MSU football coaches.

Let it go and let's focus on building a better future rather than dwelling in the past. Dwelling in the past is for TSUN to do. Not us.

 

[Todd4State]

Personally I don't hate him

And I totally agree- we've had worse coaches. Charley Shira was awful and why his name is on a fieldhouse, I have no idea. I enjoyed the heck out of 2007. That was a fun year- beat Auburn, Bama, and Ole Miss and went to a bowl after a long drought and won it.

However, I will call a coach out for saying something ridiculous like he had no support from the athletic dept. I don't know where he is even going with that- is he blaming Byrne, saying that Byrne wanted "his guy" in here at MSU? Is he blaming the athletic dept. for wanting to win and not wanting to wait seven years for everything to somehow come together?

 

[esplanade91]

Croom DID NOT clean up our program. He recruited thugs just like any other school in the country. He disciplined them when it was convenient and he liked the back up better.

He signed a guy in jail.

Obviously when you recruit 17 year old athletes, most of which barely qualify to go to college in the first place, you're going to deal with discipline issues. Croom kicked kids off the team, while guys like Mullen make you shave your dreads, sit out half a season, run stadiums until you puke your kidneys out, and learn your lesson. Which is how it's suppose to be. I go to school here and I'm at the same parties as these guys, I'm friends with student athletes... They get into just as much trouble as they always have, now it's dealt with internally... Vs throwing your players under the bus to save your job because you average 1 win a season.

 

[Todd4State]

If we were going solely for a black coach

And were being forced to hire a black coach by the SEC or whomever- LT still could and should have made a better choice than Croom. Charlie Strong?

 

[esplanade91]

Wins and losses, yes, we've certainly had some turds as head coaches here... But you're talking about a guy with the character and loyalty of Felker vs a guy who didn't want the job here and threw and has continued to throw everyone under the bus here. He's made excuses for himself for every single failure of his tenure.

Stat sheets, yeah, I guess Croom wasn't the worst coach we've ever had, but everything considered, he was the worst coach in school history. Felker was a bad head coach. Croom is a ****** person and even worse at coaching football.

 

[biguglyjoe]

I once heard Steve Young say it takes 3 years to understand a West Coast style of offense.

 

[MSUDawg4Life]

Wins and losses, yes, we've certainly had some turds as head coaches here... But you're talking about a guy with the character and loyalty of Felker vs a guy who didn't want the job here and threw and has continued to throw everyone under the bus here. He's made excuses for himself for every single failure of his tenure.

Stat sheets, yeah, I guess Croom wasn't the worst coach we've ever had, but everything considered, he was the worst coach in school history. Felker was a bad head coach. Croom is a ****** person and even worse at coaching football.

How do you know what type of person Croom is? Have you ever talked to him? Have you ever spent time with him?

You said you're currently a student, which tells me that you have no clue about MSU football history. Those stats and figures that you read, some of us were actually sitting in the stands. Some of us actually played in those games for those lousy coaches. When you try to label Croom as the worst coach ever, you have no idea what you're talking about.

And that statement you made about Mullen making players cut their dreds was horrible. It's obviously not true because many of our players have dreds. And it suggests that you feel that the only players who get in trouble are the ones that wear dreds. Which makes whoever said that many of you are no different from TSUN people look like a genius.

You need to sit down and shut up. You're embarrassing yourself and the rest of us with your stupid and unfounded rants. Please go away.

 

[esplanade91]

How do you know what type of person Croom is? Have you ever talked to him? Have you ever spent time with him?

You said you're currently a student, which tells me that you have no clue about MSU football history. Those stats and figures that you read, some of us were actually sitting in the stands. Some of us actually played in those games for those lousy coaches. When you try to label Croom as the worst coach ever, you have no idea what you're talking about.

And that statement you made about Mullen making players cut their dreds was horrible. It's obviously not true because many of our players have dreds. And it suggests that you feel that the only players who get in trouble are the ones that wear dreds. Which makes whoever said that many of you are no different from TSUN people look like a genius.

You need to sit down and shut up. You're embarrassing yourself and the rest of us with your stupid and unfounded rants. Please go away.

Excuse me? Anthony Dixon got a DUI and he was required to shave his head, you asshat. He was required to lose 20 lbs and he sat out a game. Based on Croom's track record for discipline that wouldn't happen.

Professionally, Croom was a terrible coach. Win 100 games, win 5 games, I don't give a ****... You can't ride around on a golf cart, recruit kids in jail, defy the university when they try to get you to make changes... Then go tell ESPN and the world the athletic department mistreated you, kids were receiving extra money, and you instilled discipline on the team. Croom could be the nicest person on God's green earth, but he was a ****** coach and he was ****** towards my university.

17 yourself.

 

[MSUDawg4Life]

Excuse me? Anthony Dixon got a DUI and he was required to shave his head, you asshat. He was required to lose 20 lbs and he sat out a game. Based on Croom's track record for discipline that wouldn't happen.

Professionally, Croom was a terrible coach. Win 100 games, win 5 games, I don't give a ****... You can't ride around on a golf cart, recruit kids in jail, defy the university when they try to get you to make changes... Then go tell ESPN and the world the athletic department mistreated you, kids were receiving extra money, and you instilled discipline on the team. Croom could be the nicest person on God's green earth, but he was a ****** coach and he was ****** towards my university.

17 yourself.

Go study, you disrespectful prick. You spend way too much time on this board acting a fool to be a good student. Find something more productive to do.

 

[SixtonPackerish]

Would have made more sense to hire someone who was already coaching in the college ranks. We hired someone who'd been out of it for years, someone whose alma mater had refused to hire. It's my opinion LT sold us out. What did he care? He got credit for an "historic" hire, got a job with the SEC and stuck it to MSU. He has no loyalty.

 

[Todd4State]

I think LT was lazy and cheap

I can almost guarantee that if Croom's name had not come up during the Alabama coaching search, he would not have been hired by MSU. LT also didn't want to deal with agents- as in the coaches agent.

I think LT had some weird infatuation with Bear Bryant too as far as football goes. Literally every coach that was a viable candidate for us during LT's tenure had some kind of connection to Alabama.

 

[Todd4State]

Croom was the black Felker

I remember reading an article after we hired Jackie and Felker said "I guess they just want to win too much". I was like- hell yeah I want to win.

I was amazed that we hired him back as an assistant- on the staff of the guy who replaced him.

 

[SixtonPackerish]

Go study, you disrespectful prick. You spend way too much time on this board acting a fool to be a good student. Find something more productive to do.

I've obviously overlooked your response to "he signed a guy in jail." Have we ever had a coach who did that before Croom? That's about as crappy as it gets for me. I've met Croom, talked to him more than once not at MSU or an MSU function. He's a pompous *** at best.

 

[SixtonPackerish]

I can almost guarantee that if Croom's name had not come up during the Alabama coaching search, he would not have been hired by MSU. LT also didn't want to deal with agents- as in the coaches agent.

I think LT had some weird infatuation with Bear Bryant too as far as football goes. Literally every coach that was a viable candidate for us during LT's tenure had some kind of connection to Alabama.

We think differently. I think Croom wanted a job at Alabama, Alabama didn't want him, Slive told LT "you hire him, we'll go easy on probation and, if you're cooperative, I'll promise you a job with the SEC and you won't have to move." That's not saying LT wasn't lazy. He was way too comfortable in his job.

 

[BehrDawg]

I agree with you. People act like Croom is the worst coach we've ever had. That is far from true. He was bad, but MSU football history is littered with coaches who were as bad or worse than Croom.

Like all of us, the man had is strengths and weaknesses. Good and bad points. Some don't want to admit it, but Croom did lay the foundation for the success we're experiencing now. He got rid of the riff-raff and put in place a culture that stressed discipline and hard work. Taking care of business in the classroom. Like it or not, that made Mullen's transition easier because he didn't have to do that and could just come in and install his system.

This hatred and ridicule of all things Croom is unwarranted and it's long past time that we let it go. Yes, it's true that he didn't win, but that's also true of almost all past MSU football coaches.

Let it go and let's focus on building a better future rather than dwelling in the past. Dwelling in the past is for TSUN to do. Not us.

I couldnt disagree more. A decent or "good at heart" coach doesn't fall asleep on a recruits couch during his in-home visit, nor does he ride a golf cart around in practice all day, nor does he keep a terrible OC in place just because it's his "friend", nor does he get rid of blue chip players before he coaches a snap (say what you want but his job is to coach them, not be their daddy- he kicked these kids off of the team based on what he was "told" not by what they did while he was coach), nor does he blame his failures as a coach on the AD and "non-support" (what a load of ****- that is fact), nor does he lose to MAINE, nor does he completely waste talent in a guy like Omar Connor....geeze, I could go for days.

Croom SUCKED. Croom FAILED. Croom was FIRED-and rightfully so.

 

[FISHDAWG]

I know that a lot of the players had zero respect for him while others thought he was OK ... but the concensus was he was not immpressive in most of the players eyes ... that came from several players, not me

 

[ArcherSPS]

Go study, you disrespectful prick. You spend way too much time on this board acting a fool to be a good student. Find something more productive to do.

We can't all be retirees like you gramps. Go swallow Sly's cock somewhere else

 

[thatsbaseball]

OK genius. Name one coach who failed at State that could have succeeded at another SEC school. They failed at State because they were ****** coaches when we hired them and nobody else was stupid enough to give them another chance.

 

[Woof Man Jack]

.....that the Alabama AD make an absolutely great decision I hope this show is not going to try and paint the picture that everyone was out to get Sylvester Croom. ****, I know better.

Hell no. The choice for Bama HC came down to Croom and Mike Shula. Has to be among the worst coaching search results EVER!

 

[ColMuldrow]

I'll be the first to agree, he DID suck as a head coach. He was in over his head. He did however clean up a bunch of malcontents and was a decent person. We've had had worse coaches here. Much worse. Rockey Felker was one. Us older folks remember Tech and ten. We remember starting off 6-1 in Felkers first season and completely sucking over the final 4 games. That was Rockey's best season. Rockey however was one of us so we kinda give him a hall pass. We won't even discuss the '60's when suckage was the status quo here at State. Simply put, we've been there and done that before so I can't really grasp why some of you folks have such an intense hard on for old Sly. Yes he sucked but we've had suck-*** coaches before and got over it. Time to get over old Sly now folks.


Having said all that I'll say this. Once you suck at State you're not going to get a chance to suck again. We're the death blow of coaching. You suck here and you'll never get another head coaching gig. Felker, Croom and other from the past too numerous to mention all failed here and went on to fail nowhere else aGAIN. You might get an assistants job but that'll be about it. That one thing they all have in common.


My opinion may change depending on how this up coming documentary portrays us and whether Sly turns into a whiny *****. That is all.

I can't speak for all the other six packers but the primary reason I lost respect for Croom and view him differently than other unsuccessful coaches at MSU is the way he threw everyone under the bus but himself and Woody. He blamed the players for not executing, knocked the fans for not being supportive and bemoaned poor ol' Miss. State. This went on the entire 5 years he was here.

I think some of the hatred comes from people realizing in the very first year that he wouldn't succeed (he lost to Maine) and being frustrated with knowing the athletic department didn't seem to care robe concerned. It was obvious from that day when he came out blaming everyone but himself that he was in over his head.

 

[Todd4State]

Bob Tyler

OK genius. Name one coach who failed at State that could have succeeded at another SEC school. They failed at State because they were ****** coaches when we hired them and nobody else was stupid enough to give them another chance.

Of course, he wasn't fired for not winning games.

 

[thatsbaseball]

If Ole Miss had hired Tyler like many wanted to instead of us our football program would have been set back yet another 20 years. Tyler showed us how to win and what it took to win. When you send your check to the Bulldog Club....box BT....you do know what BT stands for I`m sure.

 

[Todd4State]

Yeah- in the NFL

I once heard Steve Young say it takes 3 years to understand a West Coast style of offense.

Of course, you shouldn't run a NFL version of an offense in college, just like you wouldn't ask a high school team to run a college offense. There are collegiate versions- Western Kentucky runs a WCO type of offense and they are a very good Sun Belt team similar to what Jim Harbaugh ran at Stanford.

But you do bring up another fault in Croom- he tried to run the Packers offense and we just couldn't do it. And I think he did that in part because he wanted to try to get players ready for the NFL- however he failed miserably at realizing that you still have to run it on a collegiate level. He also failed miserably at adapting the offense to his personnel- something that Dan Mullen is very good at, and he also failed miserably at identifying and acquiring a QB that can run the WCO, which is paramount to running it- no matter what version you are talking about. I'm just glad we all missed out on Chris Relf trying to run the WCO- that would have been REALLY bad.

 

[Todd4State]

I know a guy who played for Croom

Walk-on guy. He said that Croom cared for the players. But he still questioned some of the things he did. He told me that we had a set where we head Pegues in the wildcat, and worked, and worked and worked on it- and then never ever ran it in a game.

 

[Incognegro]

I've been around a lot of players that have been coached under Croom and know a lot of others who knew some other players and every single one of them never talked badly about him. They may have questioned his coaching ability, but I don't know any player that didn't like him as a person.

 

[fader2103]

I have talked to Croom several times when he was coach at State. He was recruiting a player any the metro area. He was very approachable and actually was a great guy. For ya'll who say he was a horrible coach go look at history there ae more coaches who don't win bowl games than who do. Croom won a bowl game at State. How many coaches did that here? Go 17 ya'll who don't respect the guy. For ya'll to say he shouldn't have kicked players off for some stuff don't know the real stories. If more coaches had more discipline than Croom players wouldn't be stealing laptops,stealing radios and pillows, raping, beaking into houses.

By the way I saw Croom in St. Louis at a Rams game. I was wearing a State cap. He gave me a Hail State. I still respect the man.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Thanks Mrs Croom, always great to hear from you

 

[was21]

If Ole Miss had hired Tyler like many wanted to instead of us our football program would have been set back yet another 20 years. Tyler showed us how to win and what it took to win. When you send your check to the Bulldog Club....box BT....you do know what BT stands for I`m sure.

When Tyler was the corch at State there may have been more Bear fans at games than dogs..Tyler would have been a winner had he gotten the Mississippi job.

 

[Rutherford B. Hayes]

When Sly was at the St Louis Rams

When Crxxm was with the St Louis Ram the team website had a profile article on him. In the article Crxxm said that he left MSU because the school hired a new Athletic Director who wanted Crxxm to violate his ethical values.

I have a good friend who played four years under Crxxm (and a Crxxm recruit). He said Woody was completely over his head as an OC, that Ellis Johnson was a fabulous DC, and Jackie's players had no chance unless they were a Jerious Norwood level talent.

As far as coach comparisons go, remember that Shira, Felker, et al, did not have the financial resources to hire assistant coaches that Crxxm had. The SEC money faucet was flowing for Sly/LT to hire assistant coaches that none of the predecessors had.

 

[FISHDAWG]

OK ... maybe I need to correct the terminology ... it was more like a confidence thing as opposed to a personal thing ... respect wasn't really the appropriate word

 

[maroonmania]

I can't speak for all the other six packers but the primary reason I lost respect for Croom and view him differently than other unsuccessful coaches at MSU is the way he threw everyone under the bus but himself and Woody. He blamed the players for not executing, knocked the fans for not being supportive and bemoaned poor ol' Miss. State. This went on the entire 5 years he was here.

I think some of the hatred comes from people realizing in the very first year that he wouldn't succeed (he lost to Maine) and being frustrated with knowing the athletic department didn't seem to care robe concerned. It was obvious from that day when he came out blaming everyone but himself that he was in over his head.

BINGO. And like someone else said he did come across to me as a pompous *** with an arrogant attitude about his Bama heritage. He was in way over his head in running an SEC program, especially one that doesn't naturally get a lot of 4 and 5 star recruits, and blamed everyone else from day one when things didn't go well. I've even heard in this documentary that its implied that he wanted to run a squeaky clean program and THAT'S why he lost support from the major boosters at MSU. I guess it didn't dawn on anyone that maybe he lost support because he was not a good coach OR recruiter and the only decent season we had under him was strictly the result of Ellis Johnson's defense scoring about half of our touchdowns.

 

[ColMuldrow]

I've even heard in this documentary that its implied that he wanted to run a squeaky clean program and THAT'S why he lost support from the major boosters at MSU.

Surely not but it would almost seem par for the course given his prior refusal to accept responsibility. THIS would really be a pretty low blow, though, whether he believes it himself or not.