current events thread

[bung23]

“It’s very curious that Jeff, Rill, and Icky have completed or are well on their way to becoming Democrats” from @tjfleck6

“Doug just said name calling would result in a ban less than 12 hours ago. You couldn’t make it half a day.” from @rillaman

I agree with @rillaman that calling someone a democrat is indeed name calling…

 

[BigWill]

Interesting read as TC asks Grok

Increasing Base load or generation takes time for plants to come on line, depending on the source it can be YEARS !

For example, Callie has not allowed a new oil refinery to be built in many years.

Coal plants are just starting to come back on line. Some are gone. There used to be a coal generation on the NJ side of the Delaware Memorial Bridge....TORN DOWN.

 

[BigWill]

Trump did not declassify documents when he was the President and then took them with him upon leaving despite the continued classified status. He had no more right to those documents than you did in 2022 or whenever. The rule of law requires you to actually do the work of declassifying if you want to take something with you. While President, I completely agree that the President has no classification obligation (as the head of the executive branch). He probably could have declassified by signing an EO in his last hour as Prez saying every document he is taking with him was declassified.

In fairness, the document kabuki was used against Trump. Who simply should have returned what was at issue and moved on. But instead he refused and then tried to fake a flood to claim the stuff was destroyed - which of course completely destroys the defense that he believed the documents were unclassified.

Your TDS is so full on, that you are inferring you were in the Oval Office to attest to witness to document declassification.
If he declassifies, no matter the process , ANY document he can access that document, because it is NO LONGER Classified.

It is SOP for departing Presidents to take a multitude of documents with them for their Presidential Libraries. The Archives routinely negotiate with ALL the departed President, which were ongoing at the time of the Mar a Largo raid !
The Top Secret folders you saw in FBI photos on a floor, WERE STAGED by the FBI.

I am the ONLY poster that has BEEN IN the Oval Office ! During the Ford Admin and Ford was at Camp David and didn't declassify anything or witness me sitting at the Resolute Desk !

 

[BigWill]

And if this were true in Trump’s post-Presidency case … he’d have been able to get a prompt dismissal of the criminal case against him (with a super favorable judge).

He did not get one. Because the issue wasn’t his power as President, but his lack of action to put in any work as President to declassify what he took.

I’d say I am not sure why some of you want to ignore this … but I am sure.

Trump’s mental state on what he wanted declassified is not at issue. His lack of action is.

See my post, that covers this AND TDS 3.0 !

 

[BigWill]

Restaurants like Cracker Barrel are struggling mightily. It sucks, many have pretty solid food at reasonable prices. They rebranded to try and spur more sales (not to be woke).

It probably won’t work either.

People my age and younger don’t seem to have much interest in chain restaurants that aren’t fast food or fast casual.

You should examine the DEI put into Cracker since this new CEO has surfaced.

A good cleaning would be more positive to have profit/sales.

 

[dtrain79]

Your TDS is so full on, that you are inferring you were in the Oval Office to attest to witness to document declassification.
If he declassifies, no matter the process , ANY document he can access that document, because it is NO LONGER Classified.

It is SOP for departing Presidents to take a multitude of documents with them for their Presidential Libraries. The Archives routinely negotiate with ALL the departed President, which were ongoing at the time of the Mar a Largo raid !
The Top Secret folders you saw in FBI photos on a floor, WERE STAGED by the FBI.

I am the ONLY poster that has BEEN IN the Oval Office ! During the Ford Admin and Ford was at Camp David and didn't declassify anything or witness me sitting at the Resolute Desk !

OFS … Old Fool Syndrome.

 

[Uncoach]

 

[Uncoach]

Sounds like something blue state Democrats would try to do just to raise more taxes.

 

[djpc]

I wonder how the declassification experts are going to spin this lol.

It’s a bit amusing how much more they apparently know about the law of declassification than Trump’s defense team in that case.

Exclusive: Donald Trump admits on tape he didn’t declassify ‘secret information’ | CNN Politics

Former President Donald Trump acknowledged on tape in a 2021 meeting that he had retained “secret” military information that he had not declassified, according to a transcript of the audio recording obtained by CNN.

amp.cnn.com

I'll assume the veracity of that because I don't have a ton of interest in Trump personally and get weary when every topic of discussion is hauled back to him, but if he maintained that the material was still classified at the moment Biden was inaugurated (and presumably remained so thereafter) then it would probably become a twofold issue of whether a) the material was disclosed to unauthorized persons and b) whether the material was stored in a way such that it couldn't be accessed by unauthorized individuals. If a) was the case I'd think even a former POTUS would potentially be in legal jeopardy. If the issue is only with b) in the sense the material was not stored in an approved manner then it would generally be more of an administrative thing. At this point Doug and tj probably have more expertise/relevant experience than I do.

(I realize there's more to that case w/Trump than just his possession of a document/documents, namely his alleged noncooperation in the matter, and I suppose also that his clearance was revoked by Biden at some point in the timeline. Maybe it will get litigated one day.)

But I still stand by what I initially said that only a POTUS can spontaneously declassify something, and I believe that because I saw it happen and got an explanation from officials whose position in the gov't was to enforce laws and regulations pertaining to formally classified information per the EO (forget the number) that lays out the basis for the classification system. I don't see how whether or not a POTUS did or didn't decide something was unclassified before he left office has any bearing on Bolton's situation. The topic before it got hijacked followed from someone sharing an X posting that claimed Bolton was being looked at for a pattern of "stealing" classified information and leaking it. Probably mostly BS, but maybe not. We'll see what happens. Either he did or he didn't, and since he was never POTUS, he never had the authority to do what I watched a president prior to Trump do, making it considerably more black-and-white in the event some evidence against him exists.

 

[rillaman]

TJ posted recently that cities are heat islands, and that he has noticed that temps are 9 degrees hotter in the city compared to rural areas. You and many other liked his posts.

Do you really believe increasing the temperature of cities by ~9 degrees has no impact on the climate? None? You don’t think that can impact plant and water life? Evaporation rates?

You’re so worried about the term “climate change” that you lose focus on what matters. We have an impact. It’s felt in some areas more than others.

 

[dtrain79]

I'll assume the veracity of that because I don't have a ton of interest in Trump personally and get weary when every topic of discussion is hauled back to him, but if he maintained that the material was still classified at the moment Biden was inaugurated (and presumably remained so thereafter) then it would probably become a twofold issue of whether a) the material was disclosed to unauthorized persons and b) whether the material was stored in a way such that it couldn't be accessed by unauthorized individuals. If a) was the case I'd think even a former POTUS would potentially be in legal jeopardy. If the issue is only with b) in the sense the material was not stored in an approved manner then it would generally be more of an administrative thing. At this point Doug and tj probably have more expertise/relevant experience than I do.

(I realize there's more to that case w/Trump than just his possession of a document/documents, namely his alleged noncooperation in the matter, and I suppose also that his clearance was revoked by Biden at some point in the timeline. Maybe it will get litigated one day.)

But I still stand by what I initially said that only a POTUS can spontaneously declassify something, and I believe that because I saw it happen and got an explanation from officials whose position in the gov't was to enforce laws and regulations pertaining to formally classified information per the EO (forget the number) that lays out the basis for the classification system. I don't see how whether or not a POTUS did or didn't decide something was unclassified before he left office has any bearing on Bolton's situation. The topic before it got hijacked followed from someone sharing an X posting that claimed Bolton was being looked at for a pattern of "stealing" classified information and leaking it. Probably mostly BS, but maybe not. We'll see what happens. Either he did or he didn't, and since he was never POTUS, he never had the authority to do what I watched a president prior to Trump do, making it considerably more black-and-white in the event some evidence against him exists.

You are entirely correct that POTUS can declassify at any moment. At no point have I argued otherwise.

But the rule of law requires some act memorializing the President’s decision. Would typically be an EO. I suppose he could make a video statement in lieu thereof.

The implication by some that he could magically declassify is what I’ve taken issue with.

We don’t know exactly what the government was chasing with Bolton, but we can anticipate more kabuki if this goes further. Especially since Bolton’s book was first approved and then disapproved (by some Admin hack) in the Trump Admin (which means a conviction on that issue is nigh impossible).

One thing not discussed here is Trump saying he didn’t know about the raid. I tend to believe that. Because this is the kind of thing in the Sycophant Olympics to please the boss, meaning that it’s hard to even know if theatre or prosecution is the goal.

 

[djpc]

TJ posted recently that cities are heat islands, and that he has noticed that temps are 9 degrees hotter in the city compared to rural areas. You and many other liked his posts.

Do you really believe increasing the temperature of cities by ~9 degrees has no impact on the climate? None? You don’t think that can impact plant and water life? Evaporation rates?

You’re so worried about the term “climate change” that you lose focus on what matters. We have an impact. It’s felt in some areas more than others.

I'm not sure who is more obsessed with the term "climate change". Any living thing will impact local conditions. There are some very interesting examples where areas that desertified after human modification have been restored by subsequent human effort and remarkable things happen. local temperatures decrease, rain increases, long dried streams flow year around again, soil recovers. Is that climate change, or ecological change?

I think the main issue is whether the activity by humans are significant enough in the aggregate that they can compete with the larger forces that drive climate to be considered drivers of climate themselves. And maybe it also depends on what someone means when they use the term 'climate'.

There's a wide gulf between the what I consider extreme view that the world is teetering on the brink of utter catastrophe that can only be avoided if we surrender most or all of our liberty to those who know what's best for us and the equally extreme view that nothing humans do affects anything. I'm not sure why anyone who does not buy in 100% to one extreme gets automatically bucketed in the other extreme every time the topic comes up, other than it's generally used as a proxy battle between political ideology camps.

 

[ILisBest]

I wonder how the declassification experts are going to spin this lol.

It’s a bit amusing how much more they apparently know about the law of declassification than Trump’s defense team in that case.

Exclusive: Donald Trump admits on tape he didn’t declassify ‘secret information’ | CNN Politics

Former President Donald Trump acknowledged on tape in a 2021 meeting that he had retained “secret” military information that he had not declassified, according to a transcript of the audio recording obtained by CNN.

amp.cnn.com

I had seen this when this topic was hot. I will use something you taught me on here(why I enjoy you posting here although we do not agree much). It is a victimless crime. Even though it is wrong, having dusty boxes lay around are hurting no one. Also, should we start prosecuting former presidents for little stuff? I think that is a dangerous path.

Using classified information to feather your nest(profit), is in a different category to me.

 

[dtrain79]

One more note. If this case is now about unauthorized removal, Bolton left in March 2019 so he presumably lost access to classified materials then. Limitations on removal is 5 years and we are now past 6.

The document kabuki continues (and it ain’t just Trump).

 

[ILisBest]

Restaurants like Cracker Barrel are struggling mightily. It sucks, many have pretty solid food at reasonable prices. They rebranded to try and spur more sales (not to be woke).

It probably won’t work either.

People my age and younger don’t seem to have much interest in chain restaurants that aren’t fast food or fast casual.

I think the issue is more CEOs ignoring their customer base.

I mostly eat out at happy hour in town. Our club has reasonable prices for good food. We also have a wine locker where you don't have to pay blood to have a nice bottle of wine.

 

[dtrain79]

I had seen this when this topic was hot. I will use something you taught me on here(why I enjoy you posting here although we do not agree much). It is a victimless crime. Even though it is wrong, having dusty boxes lay around are hurting no one. Also, should we start prosecuting former presidents for little stuff? I think that is a dangerous path.

Using classified information to feather your nest(profit), is in a different category to me.

I am going to just ignore your last paragraph for purposes of this response. I’ve repeatedly used the term “document kabuki” because this stuff is ticky tack when it comes to Trump, HRC, Biden, Pence, O or whomever. It really seems like a terrible path to go down unless these folks are selling this stuff for profit.

And I’d certainly agree that prosecutions of former Presidents is a terrible path. I think 1-6 was much worse tho … which is why I have no sympathy for Trump. It was an attempt to overthrow valid electoral results. And frankly it denies Trump the benefit of the doubt. If the only case had been documents, tho, I think you are largely right in the spirit of the argument. Trump of course opened a bunch of doors against himself … literally every one after he lost the election but before leaving office.

 

[dtrain79]

I think the issue is more CEOs ignoring their customer base.

I mostly eat out at happy hour in town. Our club has reasonable prices for good food. We also have a wine locker where you don't have to pay blood to have a nice bottle of wine.

I am not buying the CB CEO really ignored the customer base here. Now the rebrand seems lame. But did literally anyone care about the logo if the right wasn’t out looking for evidence of wokeness? The other complaint seemed to be changing the General store, which they are trying to update but maybe not well???

I made my arguments against wokeness, but it seems thoroughly defeated to me.

I suspect CB is looking at its customer demographics and is petrified about 10-20 years from now. Could be wrong.

 

[ILisBest]

One more note. If this case is now about unauthorized removal, Bolton left in March 2019 so he presumably lost access to classified materials then. Limitations on removal is 5 years and we are now past 6.

The document kabuki continues (and it ain’t just Trump).

What if he published classified information 5 years ago?

 

[djpc]

You are entirely correct that POTUS can declassify at any moment. At no point have I argued otherwise.

But the rule of law requires some act memorializing the President’s decision. Would typically be an EO. I suppose he could make a video statement in lieu thereof.

The implication by some that he could magically declassify is what I’ve taken issue with.

We don’t know exactly what the government was chasing with Bolton, but we can anticipate more kabuki if this goes further. Especially since Bolton’s book was first approved and then disapproved (by some Admin hack) in the Trump Admin (which means a conviction on that issue is nigh impossible).

One thing not discussed here is Trump saying he didn’t know about the raid. I tend to believe that. Because this is the kind of thing in the Sycophant Olympics to please the boss, meaning that it’s hard to even know if theatre or prosecution is the goal.

My question would be whether your rule of law position applies to everything the executive branch classifies per the EO I referenced, or just to those things where statutes exist that specify downgrade procedures. And it's just that, a question, not an attempt to refute anything. It hearkens back to the incident I've mentioned where the POTUS at the time did not issue an EO or create any other record that said "[this information] is downgraded to unclassified," he just decided to state it to the entire world, presumably because he judged it in the nation's best interest at the time. Perhaps he violated the rule of law, but the policing entities in the relevant executive department didn't think so, and no one attempted to challenge his action.

 

[ILisBest]

I am going to just ignore your last paragraph for purposes of this response. I’ve repeatedly used the term “document kabuki” because this stuff is ticky tack when it comes to Trump, HRC, Biden, Pence, O or whomever. It really seems like a terrible path to go down unless these folks are selling this stuff for profit.

And I’d certainly agree that prosecutions of former Presidents is a terrible path. I think 1-6 was much worse tho … which is why I have no sympathy for Trump. It was an attempt to overthrow valid electoral results. And frankly it denies Trump the benefit of the doubt. If the only case had been documents, tho, I think you are largely right in the spirit of the argument. Trump of course opened a bunch of doors against himself … literally every one after he lost the election but before leaving office.

You are willing to make the leap that Trump told the protestors to take over the capital. When in fact he called for a "peaceful protest". That in no way signals an unarmed group of citizens to take over the capital. What is odd about this argument is Trump already had in his control the US military at the time. Why would he need a bunch of unarmed protestors to take over?

We can agree that was a bad idea to call for this protest, but he in no way ordered a take over. You have opined against Trump for the better part of a decade, but this argument makes little sense.

 

[dtrain79]

My question would be whether your rule of law position applies to everything the executive branch classifies per the EO I referenced, or just to those things where statutes exist that specify downgrade procedures. And it's just that a question, not an attempt to refute anything. It hearkens back to the incident I've mentioned where the POTUS at the time did not issue an EO or create any other record that said "[this information] is downgraded to unclassified," he just decided to state it to the entire world, presumably because he judged it in the nation's best interest at the time. Perhaps he violated the rule of law, but the policing entities in the relevant executive department didn't think so, and no one attempted to challenge his action.

Not sure I understand the first sentence, but I do think the President has broad latitude to convey declassified status as he sees fit. Hence my “talking about it on Fox and Friends” quip.

But he must memorialize his position somehow, by verifiable word or deed known to the public. The rule of law is lenient here, but doing nothing and claiming positional safe harbor (as Prez) later is not consistent with document public laws or rules.

 

[djpc]

One more note. If this case is now about unauthorized removal, Bolton left in March 2019 so he presumably lost access to classified materials then. Limitations on removal is 5 years and we are now past 6.

The document kabuki continues (and it ain’t just Trump).

His clearance wasn't revoked until just recently, iirc, so he had access subject to need-to-know until then. And I thought I heard (on a different topic) that if a person is charged under the Espionage Act then it can be a ten-year SL. But I could have misheard/misunderstood.

Either way, I suspect if retention of documents was the thing they were looking for (I don't even know if that's been established), we'd probably know by now if they found any. Bolton isn't my favorite character, but I assume he's smart enough to know he has no leeway as far as their possession goes and wouldn't leave the material anywhere it would be easily pinned on him. Either Patel is looking primarily for something else, or it's a fishing expedition, which is something I find abhorrent no matter what color shirt the person holding the pole has on.

 

[djpc]

Not sure I understand the first sentence, but I do think the President has broad latitude to convey declassified status as he sees fit. Hence my “talking about it on Fox and Friends” quip.

But he must memorialize his position somehow, by verifiable word or deed known to the public. The rule of law is lenient here, but doing nothing and claiming positional safe harbor (as Prez) later is not consistent with document public laws or rules.

Okay, that is not something we ever encountered. And again, in the case I'm familiar with, the information was never formally declassified, even after POTUS released it. When you get way down in the weeds of what I used to do, it's a contractual matter, and we had to continue to treat the information as classified even after it became public knowledge (that happens more than you'd think) because the information was never downgraded in a formal way that we could legally respond to. And a point that's meaningless but somewhat interesting is that there are avenues for declassified or never classified information to remain withheld from the public.