I believe in letting facts come out prior to judgement and not just reacting to anonymous allegations. With that said, there is a lot of smoke and the allegations are pretty disgusting. I am surprised that nothing seems to have leaked in the previous few years regarding any of this alleged conduct. There are some well connected individuals that post to this board, maybe someone else heard whispers or heard of consternation between Starrocci and other wrestlers that would indicate serious issues?
Daily Collegian Article On Starrocci Allegations
- Thread starter Misalorales
- Start date
Innocent until proven guilty. Let's wait to judge. I know that's not what happened with AJ and exactly why I backed him. Its what we were taught growing up and it's my belief..If he's found guilty of anything then pile on until then I wouldn't
Interesting the first two posts are from members who just joined in June.
Oh geez. Given half or more of the board came over in the past few weeks, is it that interesting?
Well, I just read it. Unable to attach a link, but it’s easy to find under Daily Collegian sports.
Very disappointing, to say the least, to whatever extent the allegations are true, and certainly worthy of Carter not being welcome to stay around. Not the first instance of the same relentless drive that leads to athletic success, leading to trouble otherwise.
As to the suggestion, a few posts above, about coaching regime change, well, let’s hope not! We may never hear their side of it, but, presumably, Pat Kraft has.
We will all have to stay tuned.
Very disappointing, to say the least, to whatever extent the allegations are true, and certainly worthy of Carter not being welcome to stay around. Not the first instance of the same relentless drive that leads to athletic success, leading to trouble otherwise.
As to the suggestion, a few posts above, about coaching regime change, well, let’s hope not! We may never hear their side of it, but, presumably, Pat Kraft has.
We will all have to stay tuned.
I would say it would come down to how many accusations were handled if said accusations can be verified. It seems evident police were informed of the theft and did an investigation. The thoroughness of that investigation is not Cael's responsibility. If he received accusations of other stuff and did not report it appropriately, yea they're likely cooked. If he followed protocol and went through the proper channels then I don't see why he would be axed but it's to early to know. Either way, it's certainly disappointing at a minimum.
In what way is that relevant? I'd understand if I threw shade or rushed to judgement but I clearly did not. I wasn't aware that I had to be a long term member to discuss relevant news to the program.
That's a wrap for PSU wrestling for me. I am not doing this again. How any coach at Penn State could ever look the other way after what happened with the football program is insane. Legitimately insane. I really have no words left.
Here is the article guys. Read it for yourselves and come back and tell us, "wait to see if he's found guilty of anything."
www.psucollegian.com
Here is the article guys. Read it for yourselves and come back and tell us, "wait to see if he's found guilty of anything."
Former teammates and women allege misconduct from Carter Starocci
Content warning: This article contains mention of sexual assault. Resources and support are available through Penn State’s Counseling and Psychological Services.
You are absolutely jumping the gun but it is a free country to do as you please. The real crux of the issue for me will be what did the staff know about the sexual assault allegations and were they reported? The story makes clear the theft was reported but does not make clear if those girls reported anything to anyone or not and whether the staff actually knew of those allegations or not. Time will tell and if everything said in the article is proven true and cael and company knew and did not follow the proper reporting procedures then he and them should be let go. We're a long way off from that currently.That's a wrap for PSU wrestling for me. I am not doing this again. How any coach at Penn State could ever look the other way after what happened with the football program is insane. Legitimately insane. I really have no words left.
Here is the article guys. Read it for yourselves and come back and tell us, "wait to see if he's found guilty of anything."
Former teammates and women allege misconduct from Carter Starocci
Content warning: This article contains mention of sexual assault. Resources and support are available through Penn State’s Counseling and Psychological Services.
I think the article was pretty clear as to what Cael was told. It was more than enough to do something about what was happening. We went through this in 2011. And everybody said the same exact things you are saying now. Exactly the same.
The people who were the issue in 2011 weren't those waiting for facts and evidence it was the ones who refused to admit it all after facts and evidence came out. You don't have to rush to judgement because you can be patient and wait for the facts and then form your opinion. I don't feel that is a irresponsible take on something like this. I've said above that IF the staff were made aware of the sexual allegations and did not follow up and report properly they should be let go. However, nothing in that article shows whether they were made aware of the sexual assault allegations from those girls and whether proper reporting was done or not.
Hey Mike, I am glad to see you over here! I mean...not like shower room glad. I think your humor is really twisted at times; which is why you have my respect!
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It's ...rumored... that Cael said, "With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I would have done more!"That's a wrap for PSU wrestling for me. I am not doing this again. How any coach at Penn State could ever look the other way after what happened with the football program is insane. Legitimately insane. I really have no words left.
Here is the article guys. Read it for yourselves and come back and tell us, "wait to see if he's found guilty of anything."
Former teammates and women allege misconduct from Carter Starocci
Content warning: This article contains mention of sexual assault. Resources and support are available through Penn State’s Counseling and Psychological Services.
(Too dark? Too soon?)
loosely followed this on Twitter and this board, no new info, same allegations by a failed OF who clearly has mental issues. When we get a police report I'll take the allegations seriously.
Yeah I'm pretty much where you are. This sounds horrible and there is a lot of smoke but not sure how someone can already say that the "coaches looked the other way". It doesn't even sound like Beau was saying that, and this article was written almost entirely from his perspective considering there's been no comment from the athletic department or coaches or the accused.
My pitchfork is cleaned and sharpened but I'm not getting it out just yet.
While I think this must be taken seriously, it is a school newspaper with anonymous sources.
I was particularly struck on the theft issue by "Penn State police were unable to contact Starocci over the course of the nearly six month investigation." Seriously? - "unable to contact"! Surely, Carter was easily found.
Simply doesn't make sense.
I was particularly struck on the theft issue by "Penn State police were unable to contact Starocci over the course of the nearly six month investigation." Seriously? - "unable to contact"! Surely, Carter was easily found.
Simply doesn't make sense.
I don’t know anything about failed only fans if you care to explain. Message boards are my only form of “social media”.
Is your position that the two young women in this story who directly alleged, with quotes, that Starocci sexually assaulted them are both onlyfans models?
If so, why do you think that has anything to do with their allegations that Starocci raped them?
This is a terrible take. The coaching staff did NOT look the other way on this, and despite a lot of noise in the article, you should be able to read the article and see this.That's a wrap for PSU wrestling for me. I am not doing this again. How any coach at Penn State could ever look the other way after what happened with the football program is insane. Legitimately insane. I really have no words left.
Here is the article guys. Read it for yourselves and come back and tell us, "wait to see if he's found guilty of anything."
Former teammates and women allege misconduct from Carter Starocci
Content warning: This article contains mention of sexual assault. Resources and support are available through Penn State’s Counseling and Psychological Services.
First of all, as I have stated before, there's a difference between breaking the law or breaking team rules and just being a d*ck. Anyone who hasn't realized that Carter is the later is clueless, and the staff is well aware. But being a dick by itself doesn't warrant anything more than trying to offer guidance.
There are two allegations in the article which warrant serious attention. First, of course, is the rape allegation. Which even the article states is NEW. It may have happened in the past but no claims were made until now or very recent. I don't know but this may have triggered Carter not being welcome at the NLWC. But this is not something the staff, or really anyone, covered up. I assume a complaint has now been filed per the article, and is being handled appropriately. The article was not really clear if that complaint was yet brought forward yet. But it sure wasn't brought forward in the past and covered up.
The second incident which would warrant coach action was the alleged theft. As stated in the article, the staff was notified, they told Beau they would fully support him if he filed a complaint. He did. Police investigated and didn't have any evidence to bring charges. I'm not sure what Cael and company could have done. If they punished Starocci for an allegation without evidence, wouldn't they have been obligated to do the same with Kasak? And nobody thinks Kasak did anything wrong. Even Beau stated that he did not blame the coaches on this. They did all that they could. Whether Mrs. Bartlett shares these feelings is another story, I guess.
The other stuff is just noise, pure and simple. "Grooming?" They should be embarrassed that they used that. There is nothing illegal about a 22 year old coming on to a 17 year old. In truth, in PA it is not illegal for a 27 year old to have sex with a 16 or 17 year old as long as it is consentual. It may be creepier-ish, but still allowed. And in reality, college freshman and even HS senior girls dating guys in college is not rare. Again, some may think Carter a d*ck for this, but not actionable.
The practice room stuff - the 5 on 2, the thumb ride/oil check, kneeing in the head, etc. - geez, as always, not a great look for our sport in general, but not uncommon. Usually done by the guys you consider d*cks to try to intimidate or get an edge. Maybe warrants a talking to, but this stuff is not even explicitly against the rules in our combat sport. I would guess this didn't show up in the article from Beau, but probably from someone that Beau talked to that's never been in a combat sport and thinks it is something like assault. I'd be embarrassed to be in a wrestling forum regularly and think that way.
So bottom line, there are two serious allegations in there and a bunch of other stuff that's nonsense. The first incident was investigated with full support of the staff, but nobody could prove anything and it's pretty evident why. The second one is a new allegation just being investigated now and I hope will be investigated fully. It seems that the staff made the proper call as soon as they were aware.
So, Carter is a d$ckhead, and is currently being investigated to see if he is much more than that. I'm not really inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt unless facts come out that say otherwise. At best he is likely a misogynist.
And the staff acted exactly how they should have. That is not in debate even from Beau. I'm a liberal and I still don't think that people in authority should be forced to act like SJWs, even though some do. Possible criminal behavior, yes act. Just being a d*ck, no.
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Wow that is long
. At this point nobody knows much . Lots of spin here. Just say innocent until proven guilty. It would save your fingersThat's a wrap for PSU wrestling for me. I am not doing this again. How any coach at Penn State could ever look the other way after what happened with the football program is insane. Legitimately insane. I really have no words left.
Here is the article guys. Read it for yourselves and come back and tell us, "wait to see if he's found guilty of anything."
Former teammates and women allege misconduct from Carter Starocci
Content warning: This article contains mention of sexual assault. Resources and support are available through Penn State’s Counseling and Psychological Services.
Nah, I'm not saying innocent until proven guilty.Wow that is long
Just separating staff actions from individual actions, as some are lumping all together.
No spin. I'm not interested in giving Carter the benefit of the doubt on either of the incidents that merit attention. He made his bed, he should lay in it just like your buddy AJ.
But I'm also not interested in seeing a bunch of people using this as an excuse to link Cael with the Paterno/Sandusky situation, because that is absolutely not what happened here. But I'm sure plenty of people will be happy to.
Thanks for the well thought out knowledgeable post.
What I hate about these types of situations is that people take the alleged bad behavior of one individual and try and paint it as an organization wide issue. Am I shocked that incredible athletes can be jerks? In a word, no. I am about as far from incredibly athletic as you could get and dealt with my share of bullying when I was younger. Athletes have a tendancy to feel superior to those around them especially at an early age and they often feel like they can do whatever they want. That is why we celebrate the good stories of athletes who don't act that way. Did this happen in this case, maybe. We really don't know.
What I want to know if why Bartlett chose to stay at Penn State if the culture and environment and the coaches were complicit or accepting of this type of behavior. Not only did he stay, he graduated and chose to come back as a grad student. He could have transfered just about anywhere besides Ohio State and started for them this year.
I think that the issues may be more with an individual's bad behaviour than a cultural issue.
What I want to know if why Bartlett chose to stay at Penn State if the culture and environment and the coaches were complicit or accepting of this type of behavior. Not only did he stay, he graduated and chose to come back as a grad student. He could have transfered just about anywhere besides Ohio State and started for them this year.
I think that the issues may be more with an individual's bad behaviour than a cultural issue.
The most interesting one for me is how could the police not find him for 6 months? Or who influenced the police to not actually try finding him?
Actually it was quite well articulated. Not spin - logical and reasoned. A lot of emotional responses so far today that are causing people to conflate allegations together and convict the coaching staff for the underlying allegations for which nobody has alleged they had knowledge. Based upon the clear tenor of the article, if anyone thought that the coaches were aware of the alleged sexual assaults and "looked the other way" that would have been made abundantly clear. No such allegation is made. The only substantive issue in dispute that matters is if Carter committed an assault at his house with one or more young women. If so, and those women want to pursue, there is a formal process to investigate and handle and I would suggest before we convict Carter, fire the coaches or disparage the Bartletts, we should defer to that process.Wow that is long
I suspect the “couldn’t find him” portion of the story was poorly worded. It may well have been that CStar refused to return contact requests or refused to speak with them. He has a right to remain silent and frankly anyone in that position would be wise to do so. Without other evidence the IO may have decided he had was no choice but to close the matter.
2 woman....who? These allegations have made by Beau's wife. The failed OF "star" has tweeted and tweeted away on X about Carter. When the police get involved I will pay attention, the rantings of 2.99 a month OF drop out, not so much.
If the police wanted to talk with Carter, they would have.
And Carter could have, and for his sake should have, refused to meet or speak with them.
I agree with what you are saying (with some push-back) but overall this is one of the best takes I have seen on this (not surprised it came from you).
My push-back:
1. I disagree about there only being 2 serious allegations. The allegations by Beau about Starocci taking nude photos of teammates are serious and directly implicate Cael.
"Beau and Mark, a former teammate who requested anonymity due to fear of retaliation, alleged Starocci took non-consensual explicit photos of them in the Nittany Lions’ locker room. Beau said the photos were reported to Sanderson along with the theft, but nothing came of it from the coach"
While this can easily be brushed into the other hazing allegations that we all know are unfortunately part of this sport, this is a 100% a crime in PA (invasion of privacy: "Views, photographs, videotapes, electronically depicts, films or otherwise records another person without that person's knowledge and consent while that person is in a state of full or partial nudity and is in a place where that person would have a reasonable expectation of privacy. "). Now obviously this is a second-degree misdemeanor, but if Cael was directly made aware of this and did nothing, that would be at best a bad look and at worst a serious issue. Now, if this was reported along with the theft and investigated, then the staff did nothing wrong, but the article seems to show the investigation only being about the theft.
2. This isn't major push-back, more of an observation about the situation and how it could involve others, but part of the sexual assault allegations involve Carter taking one of the alleged victims to LWC and into the team facilities on multiple occasions, she does NOT allege anything inappropriate happened there, but the fact he was able to do so, and who is responsible for monitoring who gets brought in and out will be scrutinized because of this. Again, this isn't something I am blaming the coaches for, but it is also something that showcases Carter's alleged predatory behavior was not isolated to off-campus places and even extended into the PSU Wrestling facilities. Which, depending on what is revealed in potential investigations, could be harmful to the program and (I doubt it) implicate other people.
3. I get what you are saying about the usage of Grooming, BUT this quote
"He had groomed me to feel comfortable with him,” Jane said. “The whole experience feels extremely manipulating.”
does not read to me as her accusing of grooming in the traditional sense (teacher starting with a 14-year-old and then pursuing when they graduate PUKE), but rather saying that he made her feel as if he was not a person she had to worry about being alone with. I will also push back a little that a senior in College hitting up a 17-year-old incoming freshman (while entirely legal) is more than just creepy. It does happen, but a verified on Instagram, 22-year-old 3x National Champ at the school someone is about to attend will have a power imbalance with a 17-year-old incoming freshman.
There is nothing that Cael (or anyone else at PSU) should have been expected to do about this last point, but it was part of some signs about Carter that were not exactly well hidden. I had heard about him pursuing other freshmen girls in 2023, and I am far from being closely connected to the program or school, so the whole situation seems like a lot of people missing red flags because they were wearing rose colored glasses. I think at this point, how PSU reacts to this will be huge, they just announced him as Male Athlete of the Year 3 days ago, so clearly this was not expected to drop today, or their concept of PR is nonexistent. I am not saying anything will come of it, or that the staff did anything wrong, but I want to wait to absolve them of anything as well. Overall, it is a situation that is another awful reminder that this stuff exists and is prevalent in our world. When Beau's post came out, there were signs of this, but this is worse than I would have ever expected.
-Wrestlingfan22 (I will try to figure out how to change my alias)
So Carter and Beau are supposed to do a camp together this weekend in Idaho with Ridge Lovett for Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Should be interesting. I would post the flyer but I don't know how to post that stuff on forums
You can take a picture and post it directly into your post using the picture icon.
Fair take, I have a little push back as well
1) Incident is reported as Snapchat on the team group SnapChat. A little different than taking nude photos and posting them. Agreed that these probably falls under the "hazing" umbrella but with Snapchat, unless somebody took screenshots and presented them, not sure there could be anything done much more than "I hear about something like this again..." and would likely take a team wide complaint. I'm not seeing that as likely.
2) I am unsure that this is pushback against my post. I think I'm in agreement with you and what is anyone to do. Unless you know you've got a criminal on your hands - which is not the case - impossible to call out who he hangs out with or who he brings where if everyone else has the same rights.
3) Disagree. Him being a National champ is no more a power imbalance than rich 40 year old guys banging 18 year old girls who like the perks and lifestyle. This happens all the time and is not the same as the power imbalance of the workplace. You may find it creepy but it's not illegal or actionable. I personally don't find a 22 or 23 year old with a 17 year old all that creepy or even close to being as creepy as the old guys. That said, if it was something that led up to a rape it could be considered in hindsight, but that is just coming out now. How would anyone know this beforehand? Anyhow, it is a distortion of the word "grooming" and it's use undercuts the credibility of the user. It's just piling on noise for the effect, which I suspect #1 is as well.
Again, let me be clear. This is no defense of Carter and I'm not going near the innocent until proven guilty thing that some may afford him. Let the chips fall where they may with him. Just being very clear that this is not some cover up the staff was involved in and that there is zero evidence of that in any allegation despite people muddying the waters in this. But it's PSU and we've got the Paterno/Sandusky thing so people are going to try to connect them instead of looking at it rationally.
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