Daily Collegian Article On Starrocci Allegations

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The semantics that people are willing to use to justify things like this is wild. These are the exact same kinds of semantics people used in 2011. They didn't work then and they are going to go over like a lead balloon now.

The semantics that people are willing to use to justify things like this is wild. These are the exact same kinds of semantics people used in 2011. They didn't work then and they are going to go over like a lead balloon now.

The events of 2011 remain one of the great examples of rushing to judgment. The result, as later investigations have shown, was the condemning of innocent people and profiteering by those willing to take advantage of a cowardly board. People seem to love the opportunity to denigrate revered programs.

While this is a lesser incident that the Sandusky scandal, we should take the lesson from that reaction and wait for the facts.

 

[Spykers Secretary]

Wow that is long . At this point nobody knows much . Lots of spin here. Just say innocent until proven guilty. It would save your fingers

Dude you spend hours a day typing on boards.

just because dice has space in your online personas brain doesn’t mean you should be a d!ck

 

[Bwifan]

I will simply say this. I will never jump to any conclusions. However, I will not back down from an ignorant fool. I don't profess to know all facts here, but I actually know more than I want to, and I'll leave it at that.

I'm happy to be back here. I genuinely missed folks here. That said. I'm just not going down certain roads. It's simply not my place. However...

Good to see you back.... you are not giving me the warm fuzzies to use a BOT members quote during the Sandusky fiasco... "that everyone will forget about this in a few years...."

 

[wrestlingfan22]

Willie says it was a watch that was stolen- the only new info I have gained so far. He has spent more time talking about himself then the actual situation so far though

 

[psu0408]

This is a poorly written article, but here's my cheap 2 cents:

• Two young women have come forward to say that Carter Starocci raped and/or sexually assaulted them, and there are apparently other women with similar stories. I hope this is being investigated thoroughly by law enforcement. While he is presumed innocent, he should have no involvement or presence with the university or NLWC moving forward until this investigation is completed.
• If any specific details related to the sexual assault of a minor was reported to any of the coaches (and not just rumor), and it was not further reported to law enforcement, the office of student counsel and/or office of general counsel - the involved coach must be fired, even if it's Cael. There is no indication whatsoever that this is the case.
• Beau Bartlett was a model teammate and person during his time at PSU. I doubt that he would be lying or making anything up regarding Starocci, but I think all the facts should come out before weighing credibility.
• "Beau, Mark and another teammate all told the Collegian that Starocci continued to touch other wrestlers inappropriately in the training room, sometimes in front of Sanderson. They also reported knowledge of rumorsof Starocci’s sexual misconduct and inappropriate interactions with minors."
  • Does "reported knowledge" mean that the teammates had knowledge of the rumors OR that they reported their knowledge of the rumors to coaches. I believe this paragraph was written in an intentionally unclear way to allow for speculation. Given the frequency with which Sanderson's name was referenced in the article, I would imagine if the rumors were reported to Sanderson, the article would have said that.
• Beau reached out to teammates regarding his missing belongings, who reported that Starocci stole from their lockers. Did these other teammates (a) report to law enforcement (b) report to coaches (c) report to office of student conduct?
• "Beau and Mark, a former teammate who requested anonymity due to fear of retaliation, alleged Starocci took nonconsensual explicit photos of them in the Nittany Lions’ locker room. Beau said the photos were reported to Sanderson along with the theft, but nothing came of it from the coach."
  • With regards to the photos, (a) was a police report filed (b) was the matter referred to the office of student conduct and what was the outcome of that?
  • "Nothing came of it from the coach" - another clear as mud statement. What does this mean? Notice the author didn't say "nothing came of it from the university," which would suggest that it was not handled by OSC.
  • With regards to the theft, this is BS. Sanderson supported Beau's decision to report the theft to law enforcement. A police report was filed, and investigation was conducted, and there was insufficient evidence to charge Starocci with a crime. Afterwards, the matter was referred to the office of student conduct.
• Regarding the theft investigation, Starocci likely either ignored phone calls or lawyered up and asserted his right against self-incrimination/legal counsel. Kasak probably gave a statement indicating that he didn't steal anything, and didn't witness Carter or anyone else doing so.
• Physical misconduct in the wrestling room - anyone ever hear of the 5 on 2, or checking the oil?
• Our starters during the Starocci years - including Beau Bartlett - could transfer and start almost anywhere in the country, and get top NIL money to do so. If things were as bad as suggested, why didn't we see anyone bail on the program?
• There are far more questions than answers. While Starocci's disciplinary file is confidential, hopefully the university will release some type of statement addressing whether or not various matters were properly reported to the appropriate entities.

 

[JVP_Yahweh]

I hope the BOT stands behind Cael unlike how they stabbed Joe in the back. I fully expect Chairman Lubert will stand up for the team

 

[Corby]

Dude you spend hours a day typing on boards.

just because dice has space in your online personas brain doesn’t mean you should be a d!ck

Dice and I are fine but thanks for caring . It's not that serious . Count to 5 it will be ok. I already explained that I'm a wrestling fan and have been on the boards forever. And I sit around the pool and talk wrestling.

 

[Corby]

Willie says it was a watch that was stolen- the only new info I have gained so far. He has spent more time talking about himself then the actual situation so far though

A watch was mentioned in the original article. It also said shoes.

Maybe the code has been cracked on why Beau wore 2 different shoes

 

[BobPSU92]

I burned my Penn State Wrestling NATTY. shirts last night. Was that premature?

 

[Shpsu]

I am certainly not immune to overreacting. You can ask anyone that knows me. This just hits so close to home with what happened in 2011. This looks and feels exactly like 2011 to me and if I am being honest I just don’t think I can handle going through the wrestling version of 2011.

So stop trying to provoke it and STFU!

 

[Tom McAndrew]

The conversation about CStar is at the 8:30 mark.

 

[Corneliuswonder]

I hope the BOT stands behind Cael unlike how they stabbed Joe in the back. I fully expect Chairman Lubert will stand up for the team

Ira Lubert has not been the chair of the Board for several years - and, in fact, Lubert is no longer even on the Board of Trustees. David Kleppinger was elected chair last year.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Ira Lubert has not been the chair of the Board for several years - and, in fact, Lubert is no longer even on the Board of Trustees. David Kleppinger was elected chair last year.

Mostly correct. Lubert is an Emeritus Trustee, and as such can attend BOT trustee meetings, and voice opinions to other trustees. He just doesn't have a vote on decisions made by the PSU BOT.

 

[PSU Mike]

Mostly correct. Lubert is an Emeritus Trustee, and as such can attend BOT trustee meetings, and voice opinions to other trustees. He just doesn't have a vote on decisions made by the PSU BOT.

Unlike Barry who is a Demeritus Trustee

 

[Sammy7777!]

Ira Lubert will definitely step up for our Program. Cael is a real son of God.

 

[JVP_Yahweh]

Ira Lubert has not been the chair of the Board for several years - and, in fact, Lubert is no longer even on the Board of Trustees. David Kleppinger was elected chair last year.

My bad. His Emeritus status has to count for something. There is no way he will let this go sideways

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

I have been to Penn st in the opposing locker room for a dual and on the bench during it . Penn st provides a police officer to sit outside the locker room and walk you out to the arena floor. Penn st also has the same for the team. So the cops saw Carter at every home dual . Why was he not talked to? This is the oddest part of all of this to me

I imagine it is a detective's job to interview, not a uniformed officer. I also imagine that a detective would have talked to whoever viewed the tapes, or viewed the tapes themselves, and viewed trying to get an admission of guilt over $1,000 theft as a waste of their time given whatever other crimes they were working on. Pure speculation on my part.

 

[Corby]

I imagine it is a detective's job to interview, not a uniformed officer. I also imagine that a detective would have talked to whoever viewed the tapes, or viewed the tapes themselves, and viewed trying to get an admission of guilt over $1,000 theft as a waste of their time given whatever other crimes they were working on. Pure speculation on my part.

1K theft in PA can be a 3rd degree felony

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1K theft in PA can be a 3rd degree felony

Don't get too married to that exact number. If you are a detective you are probably use to victims inflating that number a bit. And if you have reason to think this is a truly bad person you might even be willing to inflate it a bit yourself. But absent knowledge of the alleged sexual offenses you might be willing to assume it is inflated and apply a discount. Who knows?

The point is not the amount. The point is that a uniformed officer is not being tasked with interviewing him. And the uniformed officer working the locker room is unlikely to even know that a detective has been involved.

What I think "we couldn't locate him for six months" means is "we didn't care all that much".

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

My bad. His Emeritus status has to count for something. There is no way he will let this go sideways

Do your Forum friends call you JVP Tetragrammaton?

 

[Corby]

Mineo is reporting that Brooks failed a drug test and will be facing a suspension

 

[Karl_Havok]

So stop trying to provoke it and STFU!

 

[El_Jefe]

This is a terrible take. The coaching staff did NOT look the other way on this, and despite a lot of noise in the article, you should be able to read the article and see this.

First of all, as I have stated before, there's a difference between breaking the law or breaking team rules and just being a d*ck. Anyone who hasn't realized that Carter is the later is clueless, and the staff is well aware. But being a dick by itself doesn't warrant anything more than trying to offer guidance.

There are two allegations in the article which warrant serious attention. First, of course, is the rape allegation. Which even the article states is NEW. It may have happened in the past but no claims were made until now or very recent. I don't know but this may have triggered Carter not being welcome at the NLWC. But this is not something the staff, or really anyone, covered up. I assume a complaint has now been filed per the article, and is being handled appropriately. The article was not really clear if that complaint was yet brought forward yet. But it sure wasn't brought forward in the past and covered up.

The second incident which would warrant coach action was the alleged theft. As stated in the article, the staff was notified, they told Beau they would fully support him if he filed a complaint. He did. Police investigated and didn't have any evidence to bring charges. I'm not sure what Cael and company could have done. If they punished Starocci for an allegation without evidence, wouldn't they have been obligated to do the same with Kasak? And nobody thinks Kasak did anything wrong. Even Beau stated that he did not blame the coaches on this. They did all that they could. Whether Mrs. Bartlett shares these feelings is another story, I guess.

The other stuff is just noise, pure and simple. "Grooming?" They should be embarrassed that they used that. There is nothing illegal about a 22 year old coming on to a 17 year old. In truth, in PA it is not illegal for a 27 year old to have sex with a 16 or 17 year old as long as it is consentual. It may be creepier-ish, but still allowed. And in reality, college freshman and even HS senior girls dating guys in college is not rare. Again, some may think Carter a d*ck for this, but not actionable.

The practice room stuff - the 5 on 1, the thumb ride, kneeing in the head, etc. - geez, as always, not a great look for our sport in general, but not uncommon. Usually done by the guys you consider d*cks to try to intimidate or get an edge. Maybe warrants a talking to, but this stuff is not even explicitly against the rules in our combat sport. I would guess this didn't show up in the article from Beau, but probably from someone that Beau talked to that's never been in a combat sport and thinks it is something like assault. I'd be embarrassed to be in a wrestling forum regularly and think that way.

So bottom line, there are two serious allegations in there and a bunch of other stuff that's nonsense. The first incident was investigated with full support of the staff, but nobody could prove anything and it's pretty evident why. The second one is a new allegation just being investigated now and I hope will be investigated fully. It seems that the staff made the proper call as soon as they were aware.

So, Carter is a d$ckhead, and is currently being investigated to see if he is much more than that. I'm not really inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt unless facts come out that say otherwise. At best he is likely a misogynist.

And the staff acted exactly how they should have. That is not in debate even from Beau. I'm a liberal and I still don't think that people in authority should be forced to act like SJWs, even though some do. Possible criminal behavior, yes act. Just being a d*ck, no.

Agreed with almost all of this.

Some disagreement about the (cough cough) manhandling at practice. It depends on the investigators and audience.

That could be interpreted as sexual conduct by unfamiliar people or those with an agenda.

Of course, PSU has NEVER -- I repeat, NEVER --- failed to consider context and nuance when a CYA sledgehammer is available.

 

[JVP_Yahweh]

Do your Forum friends call you JVP Tetragrammaton?

Ha, ha.. no. In our family Joe was seen to be as close to God as one could ever be. Hence the name and since we are not Jewish it's OK to use Yahweh or Jehovah instead of HaShem etc...

 

[CarolinaFan1]

I have to say I am a little perplexed by some PSU "fans" on this and other forums. There is a lot of discussion on all the ways Cael could (and in a number of cases should) be terminated based upon the Bartlett article. Willie and Basch discussed fans "fanning" today and pointed out how rival fan bases will stir the pot and try to bring down another program anyway they can. In today's world, cancel culture can lead to an outcome simply by generating enough public outrage or viral news to force action even if the underlying issues do not rise to a level justifying that outcome. Crowd speak and flash mobs can be powerful. While I don't agree with it, I get how many Iowa fans and Okie St fans (and others) would like to see the fall of the PSU empire. For some rival programs and many of their fans, I am sure it sucks to have another team with such superior talent and coaching that they have no reasonable exception of winning. If you visit those fan forums you will see the hope in their posts that Bartlett's allegations can and will take down Cael and the program. I actually don't think that was Bartlett's intent but sometimes you have to think through your actions more thoroughly before making an emotional decision and broad based claims. For the record, I am in no way defending Carter or anyone else that may have done something wrong in this matter. I don't know enough facts (and I will proffer that nobody on these forums do either) to make that call yet. I am just suggesting to the PSU "fans" that maybe we should not join the flash mob or group think on how and why Cael should be fired at this point. Let the process run its course before we inadvertently help push for an outcome before it is established anyone did anything wrong. I would also suggest that my preliminary review (which could change if more facts come out) would suggest that, other than based upon some form of righteous virtue signaling public outrage, I do not see a path that would justify a finding that the Cael or the other coaches have done anything wrong here that would justify his departure. Here is how I see it in case anyone cares:

(1). the most serious allegations are from the young women alleging sexual assault by Carter in his house. If these claims are filed with the authorities, they should be fully investigated and if Carter is found to have committed these offenses, he should be help responsible. I suspect we will be hearing more about this because either the women will file a formal claim and/or Carter will be filing a defamation case (he is almost forced to do so at this point). However, with respect to the Coaches and Staff, the author of the Bartlett article has subsequently come out and said nobody has claimed that any of the coaches or staff had any knowledge of these allegations. The Bartletts have never made these allegations either in any of their public statements. Unless there is new evidence to the contrary, this should mean there cannot be a finding of fault on behalf of the coaches and staff.

(2). theft of material (a watch and ?) from Bartlett's locker. By all accounts Bartlett had direct communication with law enforcement on this issue and was appropriately supported by the coaches and staff who told him they would support his pursuant of a formal investigation. Presumably, the coaches/staff/others assisted in the investigation by providing video surveillance. Unless there is new evidence to the contrary, this should mean there cannot be a finding of fault on behalf of the coaches and staff.

(3). locker room pictures and wrestling "extracirrculars". Bartlett claims he told the coaches about these activities and nothing was done about them. Importantly, however, it does not appear that Bartlett filed any formal complaint about these activities as he did with the theft. In PA, it can be a criminal offense to record or film a person's intimate areas if they are in a private place with a reasonable expectation of privacy of not being filmed or seen by others. Does a locker room trigger this cause of action? I would assume it can. So Bartlett could have filed a complaint on this and triggered a duty on the coaches and staff to take action but it appears he did not. Similarly, the "extracurriculars" could be deemed assault in PA. It is unclear if these actions would arise to that level but again, importantly, Bartlett does not appear to have filed a formal complaint on this claim which could have triggered a duty on the coaches and staff to take action. Given Bartlett had direct contact with law enforcement and the coaches support to request an investigation for some of his alleged grievances (theft) but he chose not to formally pursue these claims, I don't see how the coaches could have been held to a higher duty to act with these unpersued claims. Had Bartlett filed a formal complaint, then a duty would have most likely required action.

These are just my opinions, feel free to disagree. Sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[El_Jefe]

What I think "we couldn't locate him for six months" means is "we didn't care all that much".

Yeah, that snippet fails the sniff test badly. Any officer could access Carter's class schedule or ask Cael what time practice is.

IMO your interpretation is pretty good. Alternately: "We got enough from Kasak and don't need to talk with Carter." Or maybe "Carter wouldn't talk with us" (though that implies they did find him).

The lack of follow-up is poor journalism. And it's part of why people should reserve judgment.

 

[KJB32812]

The most interesting one for me is how could the police not find him for 6 months? Or who influenced the police to not actually try finding him?

That's insane and dumb. Just show up to practice, tell him you have questions and move on with it. I find it very, very hard to believe that I could be accuses of a crime and the police couldn't find me in six months...and I'm a nobody.

 

[El_Jefe]

The most interesting one for me is how could the police not find him for 6 months? Or who influenced the police to not actually try finding him?

 

[dicemen99]

Agreed with almost all of this.

Some disagreement about the (cough cough) manhandling at practice. It depends on the investigators and audience.

That could be interpreted as sexual conduct by unfamiliar people or those with an agenda.

Of course, PSU has NEVER -- I repeat, NEVER --- failed to consider context and nuance when a CYA sledgehammer is available.

This is my point exactly. This would only be interpreted as sexual conduct by people not familiar with wrestling or with any experience in a combat sport. If you've been on a mat, you know what the deal is with this.

The fact that it's thrown in there is just noise. I'm sure the information was relayed by a wrestler, but the non-wrestlers took this information and just added to the pile, along with other non-relevant issues. The relevant issues here are the sexual assault (rape) reported by the woman (but not yet reported to any police or authority figure - not that it makes it less credible, just pointing out that it is difficult to pursue actions without this) and the theft.

 

[Corby]

That's insane and dumb. Just show up to practice, tell him you have questions and move on with it. I find it very, very hard to believe that I could be accuses of a crime and the police couldn't find me in six months...and I'm a nobody.

Thanks signed Dummy

 

[dicemen99]

Yeah, that snippet fails the sniff test badly. Any officer could access Carter's class schedule or ask Cael what time practice is.

IMO your interpretation is pretty good. Alternately: "We got enough from Kasak and don't need to talk with Carter." Or maybe "Carter wouldn't talk with us" (though that implies they did find him).

The lack of follow-up is poor journalism. And it's part of why people should reserve judgment.

I happened to be the victim of a theft from my hotel room in Oceanside while traveling for business a few months ago. Backpack - containing cash and valuables - ironically, totaling about $1000, plus my passport which was the biggest POA of the whole incident - was removed from my room while I was at a morning appointment.

When I returned and made the complaint, a member of the housekeeping staff was interviewed by the manager, and then the manager said he would review the hallway tape. A couple of hours later, the manager said that only staff had been in the room and they could not see anything removed. I called the police and filed a complaint. The officer arrived and and took my statement. Said they would try to interview the staff later.

A few months later, and all I have is zilch. I don't even have a police report in hand because they do not take requests online - said to come by the station next time I'm in Oceanside, lol.

It's just not big enough to be on anyone's radar at the PD. As I suspect a locker room theft with a similarly inconclusive tape would be in this case.

 

[El_Jefe]

This is my point exactly. This would only be interpreted as sexual conduct by people not familiar with wrestling or with any experience in a combat sport. If you've been on a mat, you know what the deal is with this.

The fact that it's thrown in there is just noise. I'm sure the information was relayed by a wrestler, but the non-wrestlers took this information and just added to the pile, along with other non-relevant issues. The relevant issues here are the sexual assault (rape) reported by the woman (but not yet reported to any police or authority figure - not that it makes it less credible, just pointing out that it is difficult to pursue actions without this) and the theft.

Where we disagree is on this being noise. I don't think it's primary, but am not dismissing PSU's willingness to act on it out of ignorance and/or bad faith.

PSU has demonstrated its willingness and ability to weaponize noise in the past, in multiple instances. I would not trust PSU on this, and would be very happy to be wrong in a year from now.

 

[El_Jefe]

I happened to be the victim of a theft from my hotel room in Oceanside while traveling for business a few months ago. Backpack - containing cash and valuables - ironically, totaling about $1000, plus my passport which was the biggest POA of the whole incident - was removed from my room while I was at a morning appointment.

When I returned and made the complaint, a member of the housekeeping staff was interviewed by the manager, and then the manager said he would review the hallway tape. A couple of hours later, the manager said that only staff had been in the room and they could not see anything removed. I called the police and filed a complaint. The officer arrived and and took my statement. Said they would try to interview the staff later.

A few months later, and all I have is zilch. I don't even have a police report in hand because they do not take requests online - said to come by the station next time I'm in Oceanside, lol.

It's just not big enough to be on anyone's radar at the PD. As I suspect a locker room theft with a similarly inconclusive tape would be in this case.

Sounds to me like the police confiscated your passport, finally.

 

[Headlock]

I have to say I am a little perplexed by some PSU "fans" on this and other forums. There is a lot of discussion on all the ways Cael could (and in a number of cases should) be terminated based upon the Bartlett article. Willie and Basch discussed fans "fanning" today and pointed out how rival fan bases will stir the pot and try to bring down another program anyway they can. In today's world, cancel culture can lead to an outcome simply by generating enough public outrage or viral news to force action even if the underlying issues do not rise to a level justifying that outcome. Crowd speak and flash mobs can be powerful. While I don't agree with it, I get how many Iowa fans and Okie St fans (and others) would like to see the fall of the PSU empire. For some rival programs and many of their fans, I am sure it sucks to have another team with such superior talent and coaching that they have no reasonable exception of winning. If you visit those fan forums you will see the hope in their posts that Bartlett's allegations can and will take down Cael and the program. I actually don't think that was Bartlett's intent but sometimes you have to think through your actions more thoroughly before making an emotional decision and broad based claims. For the record, I am in no way defending Carter or anyone else that may have done something wrong in this matter. I don't know enough facts (and I will proffer that nobody on these forums do either) to make that call yet. I am just suggesting to the PSU "fans" that maybe we should not join the flash mob or group think on how and why Cael should be fired at this point. Let the process run its course before we inadvertently help push for an outcome before it is established anyone did anything wrong. I would also suggest that my preliminary review (which could change if more facts come out) would suggest that, other than based upon some form of righteous virtue signaling public outrage, I do not see a path that would justify a finding that the Cael or the other coaches have done anything wrong here that would justify his departure. Here is how I see it in case anyone cares:

(1). the most serious allegations are from the young women alleging sexual assault by Carter in his house. If these claims are filed with the authorities, they should be fully investigated and if Carter is found to have committed these offenses, he should be help responsible. I suspect we will be hearing more about this because either the women will file a formal claim and/or Carter will be filing a defamation case (he is almost forced to do so at this point). However, with respect to the Coaches and Staff, the author of the Bartlett article has subsequently come out and said nobody has claimed that any of the coaches or staff had any knowledge of these allegations. The Bartletts have never made these allegations either in any of their public statements. Unless there is new evidence to the contrary, this should mean there cannot be a finding of fault on behalf of the coaches and staff.

(2). theft of material (a watch and ?) from Bartlett's locker. By all accounts Bartlett had direct communication with law enforcement on this issue and was appropriately supported by the coaches and staff who told him they would support his pursuant of a formal investigation. Presumably, the coaches/staff/others assisted in the investigation by providing video surveillance. Unless there is new evidence to the contrary, this should mean there cannot be a finding of fault on behalf of the coaches and staff.

(3). locker room pictures and wrestling "extracirrculars". Bartlett claims he told the coaches about these activities and nothing was done about them. Importantly, however, it does not appear that Bartlett filed any formal complaint about these activities as he did with the theft. In PA, it can be a criminal offense to record or film a person's intimate areas if they are in a private place with a reasonable expectation of privacy of not being filmed or seen by others. Does a locker room trigger this cause of action? I would assume it can. So Bartlett could have filed a complaint on this and triggered a duty on the coaches and staff to take action but it appears he did not. Similarly, the "extracurriculars" could be deemed assault in PA. It is unclear if these actions would arise to that level but again, importantly, Bartlett does not appear to have filed a formal complaint on this claim which could have triggered a duty on the coaches and staff to take action. Given Bartlett had direct contact with law enforcement and the coaches support to request an investigation for some of his alleged grievances (theft) but he chose not to formally pursue these claims, I don't see how the coaches could have been held to a higher duty to act with these unpersued claims. Had Bartlett filed a formal complaint, then a duty would have most likely required action.

These are just my opinions, feel free to disagree. Sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[Headlock]

I have to say I am a little perplexed by some PSU "fans" on this and other forums. There is a lot of discussion on all the ways Cael could (and in a number of cases should) be terminated based upon the Bartlett article. Willie and Basch discussed fans "fanning" today and pointed out how rival fan bases will stir the pot and try to bring down another program anyway they can. In today's world, cancel culture can lead to an outcome simply by generating enough public outrage or viral news to force action even if the underlying issues do not rise to a level justifying that outcome. Crowd speak and flash mobs can be powerful. While I don't agree with it, I get how many Iowa fans and Okie St fans (and others) would like to see the fall of the PSU empire. For some rival programs and many of their fans, I am sure it sucks to have another team with such superior talent and coaching that they have no reasonable exception of winning. If you visit those fan forums you will see the hope in their posts that Bartlett's allegations can and will take down Cael and the program. I actually don't think that was Bartlett's intent but sometimes you have to think through your actions more thoroughly before making an emotional decision and broad based claims. For the record, I am in no way defending Carter or anyone else that may have done something wrong in this matter. I don't know enough facts (and I will proffer that nobody on these forums do either) to make that call yet. I am just suggesting to the PSU "fans" that maybe we should not join the flash mob or group think on how and why Cael should be fired at this point. Let the process run its course before we inadvertently help push for an outcome before it is established anyone did anything wrong. I would also suggest that my preliminary review (which could change if more facts come out) would suggest that, other than based upon some form of righteous virtue signaling public outrage, I do not see a path that would justify a finding that the Cael or the other coaches have done anything wrong here that would justify his departure. Here is how I see it in case anyone cares:

(1). the most serious allegations are from the young women alleging sexual assault by Carter in his house. If these claims are filed with the authorities, they should be fully investigated and if Carter is found to have committed these offenses, he should be help responsible. I suspect we will be hearing more about this because either the women will file a formal claim and/or Carter will be filing a defamation case (he is almost forced to do so at this point). However, with respect to the Coaches and Staff, the author of the Bartlett article has subsequently come out and said nobody has claimed that any of the coaches or staff had any knowledge of these allegations. The Bartletts have never made these allegations either in any of their public statements. Unless there is new evidence to the contrary, this should mean there cannot be a finding of fault on behalf of the coaches and staff.

(2). theft of material (a watch and ?) from Bartlett's locker. By all accounts Bartlett had direct communication with law enforcement on this issue and was appropriately supported by the coaches and staff who told him they would support his pursuant of a formal investigation. Presumably, the coaches/staff/others assisted in the investigation by providing video surveillance. Unless there is new evidence to the contrary, this should mean there cannot be a finding of fault on behalf of the coaches and staff.

(3). locker room pictures and wrestling "extracirrculars". Bartlett claims he told the coaches about these activities and nothing was done about them. Importantly, however, it does not appear that Bartlett filed any formal complaint about these activities as he did with the theft. In PA, it can be a criminal offense to record or film a person's intimate areas if they are in a private place with a reasonable expectation of privacy of not being filmed or seen by others. Does a locker room trigger this cause of action? I would assume it can. So Bartlett could have filed a complaint on this and triggered a duty on the coaches and staff to take action but it appears he did not. Similarly, the "extracurriculars" could be deemed assault in PA. It is unclear if these actions would arise to that level but again, importantly, Bartlett does not appear to have filed a formal complaint on this claim which could have triggered a duty on the coaches and staff to take action. Given Bartlett had direct contact with law enforcement and the coaches support to request an investigation for some of his alleged grievances (theft) but he chose not to formally pursue these claims, I don't see how the coaches could have been held to a higher duty to act with these unpersued claims. Had Bartlett filed a formal complaint, then a duty would have most likely required action.

These are just my opinions, feel free to disagree. Sorry for the lengthy post.

Certainly a thorough and thoughtful analysis based upon information available. The rush-to-judgement folks would never want the same treatment that they so willingly heap on others.

 

[lionlover]

Officially banned on Rivals from calling out an ignorant fool from Iowa. What a way to go out. Oh, happy days! I will never tolerate idiots without information. I will never come to any conclusion without facts. I will never comment on this situation without knowledge. I will never, ever, take a stand without proper knowledge. In this particular situation. Hell no. I'll simply wait for actual facts.

Glad to be back here, but not on the pay board. Not going there at this time. I have missed tons of folks here.

Happy as hell to see you back brotha!!!

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

I happened to be the victim of a theft from my hotel room in Oceanside while traveling for business a few months ago. Backpack - containing cash and valuables - ironically, totaling about $1000, plus my passport which was the biggest POA of the whole incident - was removed from my room while I was at a morning appointment.

When I returned and made the complaint, a member of the housekeeping staff was interviewed by the manager, and then the manager said he would review the hallway tape. A couple of hours later, the manager said that only staff had been in the room and they could not see anything removed. I called the police and filed a complaint. The officer arrived and and took my statement. Said they would try to interview the staff later.

A few months later, and all I have is zilch. I don't even have a police report in hand because they do not take requests online - said to come by the station next time I'm in Oceanside, lol.

It's just not big enough to be on anyone's radar at the PD. As I suspect a locker room theft with a similarly inconclusive tape would be in this case.

I happened to be the victim of a theft from my hotel room in Oceanside while traveling for business a few months ago. Backpack - containing cash and valuables - ironically, totaling about $1000, plus my passport which was the biggest POA of the whole incident - was removed from my room while I was at a morning appointment.

When I returned and made the complaint, a member of the housekeeping staff was interviewed by the manager, and then the manager said he would review the hallway tape. A couple of hours later, the manager said that only staff had been in the room and they could not see anything removed. I called the police and filed a complaint. The officer arrived and and took my statement. Said they would try to interview the staff later.

A few months later, and all I have is zilch. I don't even have a police report in hand because they do not take requests online - said to come by the station next time I'm in Oceanside, lol.

It's just not big enough to be on anyone's radar at the PD. As I suspect a locker room theft with a similarly inconclusive tape would be in this case.

Sorry about your experience. Had you stayed in San Diego I'm sure my friends at SDPD would have never allowed such a dastardly deed to have occurred to such a fine gentleman as yourself : ) Edit: @dicemen99 I hope my attempt at humor didn't come across as rude. If you still need a police report you can probably file it online at the below-site site if you check the box, "theft", instead of referring to the crime as a burglary. It could legitimately be called a theft because various individuals could have had legitimate access to the room and there was supposedly no forced entry. https://www.oceansidepolice.com/about-opd/file-a-crime-report

 

[Folkstylefan]

I think the article was pretty clear as to what Cael was told. It was more than enough to do something about what was happening. We went through this in 2011. And everybody said the same exact things you are saying now. Exactly the same.

So you know exactly what cael knew from a college kids article in the school paper. Wow, tell us what stocks are you buying to get rich all knowing guru.

 

[Folkstylefan]

Nah, I'm not saying innocent until proven guilty.

Just separating staff actions from individual actions, as some are lumping all together.

No spin. I'm not interested in giving Carter the benefit of the doubt on either of the incidents that merit attention. He made his bed, he should lay in it just like your buddy AJ.

But I'm also not interested in seeing a bunch of people using this as an excuse to link Cael with the Paterno/Sandusky situation, because that is absolutely not what happened here. But I'm sure plenty of people will be happy to.

They must be football fans and want to see the wrestling team fall as well, or just trolls.

 

[Shpsu]

Unfortunately the Board of Trustees is still too large and filled with people that have personal interests to protect. They will likely project blame on anyone else to protect their own reputations and financial interests. Their is still risk here.