Damn Tony Dungy..

Status
Not open for further replies.

57stratdawg

Heisman
Dec 1, 2004
148,416
24,195
113
On drafting Michael Sam "I wouldn't have done it". Said "things will happen" in the locker room and wouldn't want to have to deal with it.

Im im sure the NFL loved seeing that hit headlines this afternoon.
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
I didn't read it as "things will happen" as in...... "Things will happen." I interpreted it as him saying it was going to be a media circus. Ala Tim Tebow. I'm inclined to agree with him. It's a non-football interest, so when things go a certain way or whatever the case may be... It's essentially going to be celebrity gossip columns all up inside the Rams' locker room. I'm not going to sit here and say there is never NFL/celebrity crossover, but this one is big time. Look no further than the O Network.

The reason Tony Dungy is rightfully being thrown under the bus is his defense of Michael Vick and how he supported teams giving him a chance "despite it being a distraction." He used almost the same rhetoric for both but came out in support for Vick and said he didn't want anything to do with Sam.
 
Nov 14, 2010
824
79
28
Rightfully being thrown under the bus? Tony Dungy has some very solid reasons why he would not draft Sam....biblically speaking, very solid. He's just giving a PC reason why he wouldn't
 

msstate7

Redshirt
Nov 27, 2008
10,388
10
38
What's wrong with tony stating his opinion? If the rams cut Sam, they'll be crucified even though they gave him a chance
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
Rightfully being thrown under the bus? Tony Dungy has some very solid reasons why he would not draft Sam....biblically speaking, very solid. He's just giving a PC reason why he wouldn't
I'm not getting into religious reasons. That's beside THIS point.

The point is that he said he didn't want Sam for distraction reasons but DID want Vick despite distraction reasons. He didn't say he had religious reasons for either. You can make your own assumptions, sure. But that's not what he said. He simply said he didn't want distractions. I'm 100% in favor with that. It's the same reason I wouldn't have drafted him either. But don't say you'll take Vick despite them if that's your reason for not taking a guy.
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
What's wrong with tony stating his opinion? If the rams cut Sam, they'll be crucified even though they gave him a chance

I feel like everyone is missing the point here.

It's a big deal because he was the most outspoken guy when Vick was a free man and a free agent. And his reasons for being such a big fan were along the lines that he could help a football team despite being a huge distraction.

Again, for the record, I wouldn't take Sam either. For the same reasons. It's not that he's openly saying he thinks Sam is going to have sex with other linemen. I don't want my players, especially my 7th round rookies, having a reality TV show. It's the same reason I wouldn't have drafted Tebow or signed him later on as a free agent.


It's especially why I wouldn't have signed Vick. But apparently that's ok for Dungy.
 
Last edited:

57stratdawg

Heisman
Dec 1, 2004
148,416
24,195
113
I think that's the NFL though..

You ran a dog ring? I got you.
You stabbed a dude? I got you.
You got 6 kids from 5 women? I got you.
You gay? **** you.

The NFL fights that image, but seems like one of the most respective figures reinforced that stigma today in the national media.
 

karlchilders.sixpack

All-Conference
Jun 5, 2008
20,020
4,013
113
At the ESPY's

It took 30 min. to give out the Arthur Ash Award. The agenda is noted.

17 me to tears, this Sams type stuff is out of hand.

But hey, I'm ok with Redskins.
 

ckDOG

All-American
Dec 11, 2007
10,026
5,888
113
Why can't these premier athletes and coaches keep it professional?

On drafting Michael Sam "I wouldn't have done it". Said "things will happen" in the locker room and wouldn't want to have to deal with it.

Im im sure the NFL loved seeing that hit headlines this afternoon.

You know...go on about your business without worrying whom your coworker 17s at home in their personal time. I work with gay people and it doesn't bother me. Is it because football players like to be naked together in the showers and locker room and enjoy the occasional passionate moment of slap *** on the sideline? Good Lord, let's not gay that up.

That said, if the NFL and Rams care about it being a non issue for the team, they need to make sure the media doesn't have full access to turn it into a shitstorm. Give them the first couple weeks of preseason to ask the questions they have to ask, then cut it off.
 
Last edited:

codeDawg

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2007
2,102
0
36
Rightfully being thrown under the bus? Tony Dungy has some very solid reasons why he would not draft Sam....biblically speaking, very solid. He's just giving a PC reason why he wouldn't

I'm not sure avoiding sinners is biblically solid behavior. That seems like the opposite of what Jesus did. Beyond that, this logic sounds like judgement of the severities sin, which I'm also not sure is very biblically solid either.
 

DerHntr

All-Conference
Sep 18, 2007
15,826
2,783
113
I didn't read it as "things will happen" as in...... "Things will happen." I interpreted it as him saying it was going to be a media circus. Ala Tim Tebow. I'm inclined to agree with him. It's a non-football interest, so when things go a certain way or whatever the case may be... It's essentially going to be celebrity gossip columns all up inside the Rams' locker room. I'm not going to sit here and say there is never NFL/celebrity crossover, but this one is big time. Look no further than the O Network.

The reason Tony Dungy is rightfully being thrown under the bus is his defense of Michael Vick and how he supported teams giving him a chance "despite it being a distraction." He used almost the same rhetoric for both but came out in support for Vick and said he didn't want anything to do with Sam.

The difference in Vick being a distraction and Sam is that at least Vick had proven he could help a football team win. He was a great QB at times pre-dawg killin. Sam is a questionable 7th round draft pic AND a media distraction.

Unfortunately, it is better to break a barrier and be elite. For example, Jackie Robinson was awesome and so happened to be the first black baseball player in the major leagues. In Sam's case it would be better for coaches if he were more likely to at least contribute considering it is very likely he will have a circus following him around.
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
The difference in Vick being a distraction and Sam is that at least Vick had proven he could help a football team win. He was a great QB at times pre-dawg killin. Sam is a questionable 7th round draft pic AND a media distraction.

Unfortunately, it is better to break a barrier and be elite. For example, Jackie Robinson was awesome and so happened to be the first black baseball player in the major leagues. In Sam's case it would be better for coaches if he were more likely to at least contribute considering it is very likely he will have a circus following him around.
I completely agree. It's always easier when a "first" is memorable for more than being why he's famous to most media outlets.

But let's not act like Michael Sam is the first gay football player in the NFL. Nearly every coach in the NFL when asked has said he's knowingly had gay players on his squad before. Now, you can mark that up to sucking up to the outside media or you can look at it as 50% true.

But even if it's not true, I'm sure most people couldn't name the first black NFL player. I'm sure Jim Brown is THE guy most people look at as the first breakthrough black football player.

If that does anything is should reaffirm how special Robinson really was. Not just his talent, but that he had the guts and thick skin to deal with everything while competing at that level.

I think Michael Sam was drafted right where he should have been based on everything. To me, that's on par with bringing in a Michael Vick years removed from organized football.

Because that's what we're talking about here. Two questionable talents (one being a tweener, one being a guy locked in a prison cell instead of hanging out in camps or training facilities for a long period of time).
 

BeardoMSU

Redshirt
Jul 9, 2013
788
0
0
I'm not sure avoiding sinners is biblically solid behavior. That seems like the opposite of what Jesus did. Beyond that, this logic sounds like judgement of the severities sin, which I'm also not sure is very biblically solid either.

Ruh, roh.
 

DerHntr

All-Conference
Sep 18, 2007
15,826
2,783
113
I completely agree. It's always easier when a "first" is memorable for more than being why he's famous to most media outlets.

But let's not act like Michael Sam is the first gay football player in the NFL. Nearly every coach in the NFL when asked has said he's knowingly had gay players on his squad before. Now, you can mark that up to sucking up to the outside media or you can look at it as 50% true.

But even if it's not true, I'm sure most people couldn't name the first black NFL player. I'm sure Jim Brown is THE guy most people look at as the first breakthrough black football player.

If that does anything is should reaffirm how special Robinson really was. Not just his talent, but that he had the guts and thick skin to deal with everything while competing at that level.

I think Michael Sam was drafted right where he should have been based on everything. To me, that's on par with bringing in a Michael Vick years removed from organized football.

Because that's what we're talking about here. Two questionable talents (one being a tweener, one being a guy locked in a prison cell instead of hanging out in camps or training facilities for a long period of time).

I get what you are saying about Vick being questionable because of his time off but you have to see the upside of a potentially great QB versus maybe a contributing D lineman.

I want to say that I'm not 100% behind what Dungy said because he wasn't very articulate about it. My personal hesitation if I was a coach would be a guaranteed circus and a low chance of the player working out. The previous Vick stance muddies the water a bit and is likely inconsistent overall with Dungy's Sam comments.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,942
26,394
113
Not sure where in the Bible it says you shouldn't hire a homosexual. Or that you shouldn't love them just as much as you're commanded to love everyone else. I do understand why Dungy wouldn't want to draft him for the same reason no team will touch Tim Tebow with a 10-foot pole, even though he's definitely deserving of a shot in the NFL. You're just inviting a HUGE media distraction and that's not good for winning games.
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
I get what you are saying about Vick being questionable because of his time off but you have to see the upside of a potentially great QB versus maybe a contributing D lineman.

I want to say that I'm not 100% behind what Dungy said because he wasn't very articulate about it. My personal hesitation if I was a coach would be a guaranteed circus and a low chance of the player working out. The previous Vick stance muddies the water a bit and is likely inconsistent overall with Dungy's Sam comments.

Not just time off, because there are always older vets who miss half a season or even whole ones before coming in for teams as a 2 or 3rd option. He sat in a prison cell and had zero training for years. And that's not mentioning that when he WAS a Pro Bowl QB he was running around going to free clinics for VD meds under the name Ron Mexico and trying to smuggle weed onto planes.

I think it's not a stretch between bringing in a guy like that and bringing in a low risk high reward talent who also comes with the Oprah crowd. Defending one and dogging the other is what gets me. Both deserve(d) a shot, but if I were an important person making these decisions I wouldn't have given either the time of day.

Dungy came up ignorant, but not for the reason everyone is painting him out to be.
 

DerHntr

All-Conference
Sep 18, 2007
15,826
2,783
113
The best part of this thread was being reminded of Ron Mexico. Comedy at its finest.
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
The best part of this thread was being reminded of Ron Mexico. Comedy at its finest.

Never forget!

Not shitting you, I saw a guy in an Eagles "Mexico" #7 jersey last season walking around New York City.

Who dats everywhere.
 

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
21,798
14,492
113
I love the talking heads at ESPN insinuating that Tony Dungy's personal opinion is wrong. It sucks that in today's PC environment, you can't have an opinion that varies from what the left preaches.
 

dorndawg

All-American
Sep 10, 2012
8,765
9,442
113
^^^THIS^^^

Turns out, in America you can say just about anything you want. Further turns out, people can reply however they want.
 

00Dawg

Senior
Nov 10, 2009
3,220
516
93
I get what you are saying about Vick being questionable because of his time off but you have to see the upside of a potentially great QB versus maybe a contributing D lineman.
Bingo. Vick was a top-notch QB coming available (again) in a period where you can no longer win in the league without one. Not to mention his issues were known, easily monitorable, and not likely to occur again.
Sam was a late-round defensive end with contractual obligations to media parties powerful enough to affect the bottom line for most NFL franchises if they so desired (honestly, if the NFL really was his goal, who in his circle of advisers thought that was a good idea?).
 

dorndawg

All-American
Sep 10, 2012
8,765
9,442
113
Sure you can. TENS OF MILLIONS of Americans agree with Dungy. The problem seems to be some are so thin-skinned - or possibly shaky in their own beliefs.

It's almost as though "taking a stand" is all fun and games until there are actual, real-world consequences. That said, I don't think there's going to be any sort of meaningful consequences for Tony Dungy - who cares exactly cares what players he wants on his team? Fact is, there's next to zero for national radio hosts to talk about know, and ESPN radio has a lotta hours to fill daily. They'll chew on Dungy for today, then chew on reaction tomorrow, and that will be the end of it.
 

QuaoarsKing

All-Conference
Mar 11, 2008
5,933
2,594
113
Sam is currently the 2nd-highest selling rookie jersey (behind Manziel) in the entire NFL. Outside of the Bible Belt, the Rams have gotten overwhelmingly positive attention for taking a chance on him. Assuming Sam can get along with his teammates (judging by his time at Missouri, it appears he can), it was a great business move for them to draft him.
 

dorndawg

All-American
Sep 10, 2012
8,765
9,442
113
It matters in that neither Dungy nor people who agree with him aren't exactly stepping out on some bold ledge, they have a lot of company.

Same thing for anyone who disagrees with him. Welcome to America, I guess?
 

dorndawg

All-American
Sep 10, 2012
8,765
9,442
113
"Assuming Sam can get along with his teammates (judging by his time at Missouri, it appears he can), it was a great business move for them to draft him."

I agree with this 100%; however, first and foremost, he's gotta be an NFL linebacker. If he isn't, all the jesery sales and positive attention in the world don't matter (see generally Tebow, Tim)
 

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
21,798
14,492
113
The problem is that you cannot preach acceptance when you are not will to accept a differing opinion yourself. Some people are not comfortable with homosexuality. Just like some people are not comfortable with having 6 wives. Not everyone is the same, nor should we all think the same.
 

dawgstudent

Heisman
Apr 15, 2003
39,470
18,922
113
My wife watches Sister Wives and therefore sometimes I watch it. I honestly see nothing wrong with how that family approaches having multiple wives. Of course, that situation might be the cream of the crop of having many wives and the rest are just psycho.
 
Sep 29, 2012
234
17
18
D'Marco Farr, who played defensive tackle on the 2 Rams Super Bowl teams, has a radio show in St Louis and just yesterday was saying Sam simply isn't as good as Chris Long, Robert Quinn, Eugene Sims or William Hayes, the 4 Rams DE's on the current roster. Says he looks like a practice squad player to him. Essentially, a great motor and effort can work in D1, it can't work in the NFL. If the Rams have to cut Sam, they'll get blasted for cutting him and it will be implied it was for non-football reasons.

It goes back to a philosophy that all people who hire folks in business should keep in mind; what happens if you have to fire this person? That is reason enough for me to not have drafted Sam. Gives too much ammunition to crusaders of all types.
 

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
21,798
14,492
113
The Vick/Dungy situation being compared to the Sam/Dungy situation is like comparing apples to oranges, yet the media wants it to be apples to apples. There is no comparison. First Dungy said he would mentor Vick, not draft Vick after he caused a media shitstorm. Those are two separate discussions. Secondly, Dungy is all about offering mentorship. WTF would Dungy mentor Sam on? Being gay?
 

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
21,798
14,492
113
We watch it too. But neither my wife nor I would want that lifestyle. Am I wrong?
 

dorndawg

All-American
Sep 10, 2012
8,765
9,442
113
They might catch a little flack short-term, but not really. How many people give much of a 17 that the Patriots or Denver cut Tebow?
 

RebelBruiser

Redshirt
Aug 21, 2007
7,349
0
0
What's wrong with tony stating his opinion? If the rams cut Sam, they'll be crucified even though they gave him a chance

Which is why he won't be cut, not this year.

The NFL clearly orchestrated his draft. Goodell is a smart man. He had Jeff Fisher and the Rams (Sam's de facto "hometown" team) ready to draft him if he fell all the way to the end of the draft.

They weren't going to have him go undrafted, making the NFL look like they couldn't move into the 21st century.

Likewise, they won't cut him. Fisher will have to make room for him on the roster. He'll play out his rookie contract, and if he's not good enough, he'll be let go then, and when it happens, there won't be any uproar, because it'll be clear to everyone that he wasn't good enough at that point.
 
Last edited:

drt7891

Redshirt
Dec 6, 2010
6,727
0
0
To be honest, there is as much of that behavior from the right as there is the left. The biggest thing that bothers me is when people use religion and the bible (and no real justification besides it's "a sin") to deny any amount of decent respect, dignity, and opportunity to someone just because they are gay. That's not the same thing as "disagreeing with the left." You can still disagree or not approve of someone's decisions and still treat them like a human being.

I'm not at all accusing you of this, btw.
 

dawgstudent

Heisman
Apr 15, 2003
39,470
18,922
113
I wouldn't want it either but besides them doing this for TV - from afar - their family seems well formed.
 

dorndawg

All-American
Sep 10, 2012
8,765
9,442
113
If I were cynical, I say Tony Dungy makes a tidy sum selling books and making speeches to fundamentalist Christian and/or conservative groups, and his views on Sam only grows his standing in that endeavor. I'd further suggest ESPN radio/tv making such hay with it gives them something to talk about for hours on end during a particularly slow time of the year in the sports world.

But I'm not cynical, and I'd never suggest any of that.
 

ckDOG

All-American
Dec 11, 2007
10,026
5,888
113
That's fair. I just want to know why the NFL is allowed extra time to adapt.

The problem is that you cannot preach acceptance when you are not will to accept a differing opinion yourself. Some people are not comfortable with homosexuality. Just like some people are not comfortable with having 6 wives. Not everyone is the same, nor should we all think the same.

I realize Dungy, in his current capacity, is a talking head and his opinion is just that - an opinion. He can say and think however he likes and people are free to respond however they like. However, I get the feeling that NFL members have been using locker room cohesion as an excuse that is not available to the vast majority of American businesses. Most businesses are asked to not let sexuality creep into performance discussions and do just fine treating it as a personal and non-work related choice. Why can't well compensated professionals in the athletics world be expected to do the same?
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
The Vick/Dungy situation being compared to the Sam/Dungy situation is like comparing apples to oranges, yet the media wants it to be apples to apples. There is no comparison. First Dungy said he would mentor Vick, not draft Vick after he caused a media shitstorm. Those are two separate discussions. Secondly, Dungy is all about offering mentorship. WTF would Dungy mentor Sam on? Being gay?
How is it apples and oranges? The Vick thing smoothed over like no one could have imagined it did, but at the time when Dungy was saying all these things about how he would bring in Vick, it was the opinion of most that PETA and crazy yet organized animal rights people were going to tar and feather the entire city he went to and there could possibly be boycotts. You and I know now that wasn't the case, and that he pretty much just disappeared into being a on-the-surface reformed citizen, but we now have the benefit of knowing how everything played out. And the decision now looks favorable for ole Dungy saying that.

But Vick wasn't the super star QB everyone is trying to make him out to be. It would be like if Cam Newton stepped away from the game for 5 years without proper nutrition and training to maintain a body that plays professional sports and hadn't had ANY 1-on-1 with any kind of receivers or anything, then he signs with a team. Most pundits were saying that they didn't think he would ever play again. That in my opinion is equivalent to drafting a guy in the 7th round.

So it's not so apples-and-oranges. It's very similar, yet completely different. But at the base of Dungy's argument... What was the biggest kicker here... He didn't want distractions, period. Vick ended up not being one, but he was just as big of a story on Oprah and TMZ and **** as Michael Sam.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.