Damn - Wardlaw brought some heat with this article...

[GloryDawg]

If I amthe point guard for Miss Stateand I am looking over at the bench who do I see that is going to replace me. One guy? If I am the point guard at KY and I look over at the bench who do I see that can replace me? Three guys? They have to say yes sir and no sir at Ky because they know they will be benched or kicked off the team. Stans does not have that luxury. At the end of the game and we are winning who do we see come onto the floor? A bunch of short white boys who can't even make free throws. When KY is winning at the end of the game you see guys who could start for almost any other SEC team. Let's relate it to football. If I am a DB and I look over at the bench, I see several hungry MF'ers just waiting for me too screw up. I have to say yes sir and no sir.

I am not saying all of them are that way. In fact many of them were raised up to be respectful but many of them were not. I call it the "we don't keep score in Tee Ball generation". Everything has been given to theseguysand they think everyone owes them and they don't have to earn anything. They were treated like kings in highschoo and they want to be treated like kings now. That's why you have the troubles off the court and field that you do now. Too many one parent families who's kids run the streets playing B ball with thugs and they think it is cool to be that way. Society has just gone to **** and it shows with college and professional athletes. Just like that former MSU baseball pitcher. He did not get to start so what does he do. Hires a lawyer. What the hell? I use to not believe in abortion but my attitude is changing if these are the kids we are birthing.</p>

 

[Incognegro]

I use to not believe in abortion but my attitude is changing if these are the kids we are birthing.</p>

I teared up a little I was laughing at this so much

 

[DerHntr]

has helped the players save face which to most looks likke a ***** type move. The only reason I can come up with that is logical to handle the situation like they did is the AD didn't want anymore bad publicity for the team after last season. I can understand that but it still provides the players with a chance to escape the shame they should experience for being a dumbass. In other words, the full effect of the consequences were not felt. I know I'd be much more willing to do something wrong if after I was caught the people who were disciplining me instead would hide it for me. It gives the players a sense of being bigger than the team or the university.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

so don't preach to me about not understanding the landscape. The concept that if a boss does not command the respect of his employees, his business will not thrive is applicable here whether you want to admit it or not. Likewise, if a coach does not command the respect of his players, his team will not thrive. Its a very simple concept, though it appears to elude your grasp.

I do agree, it is the formula Stans has chosen to use and it is the reason we are where we are today. The fact that it is the path he chose does not make it the only path as you seem to want to indicate, nor does it mean that a coach cannot both command respect and bring in talent at the same time, which you have point blank stated in this thread.

And the biggest point here is that Stans cannot change his approach now because he has invested too much time on the path he chose. So we are stuck with mediocrity despite generally having the talent to do better.

 

[DerHntr]

nm

 

[GloryDawg]

Sidney's picturecould beput on anPlan Parenthood advertisingposter or at lest on a condom machine at the Stuckeys restroom.</p>

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

Likewise, if a coach does not command the respect of his players, his
team will not thrive. Its a very simple concept, though it appears to
elude your grasp.

So, in his 14 years at State, Stans has never had a team "thrive". Who doesn't have a grasp?

I do agree, it is the formula Stans has chosen to use and it is the
reason we are where we are today. The fact that it is the path he chose
does not make it the only path as you seem to want to indicate.

What part of "There definitely is another way to operate" did you not understand? I put that in my first post on this subject.

nor does it mean that a coach cannot both command respect and bring in
talent at the same time, which you have point blank stated in this
thread.

I stated that you can get both, but using Stans formula, it is rare. I even mentioned Hood as an example.

 

[Tds &amp; Beer]

I expect more from him. I expected him to be a real senior that was looking to lead. He never has had that Derrick Zimmerman or Timmy Bowers type leadership. He has always seemed more about himself. I thought that would change but it hasn't.

He continues to provides ]
I think you are right, but I also think that Bost does everything he can do to win. If that means ignoring the idiot, he ignores theidiot. He and Moultrie are our real head coaches and they are our team. If our staff would handle it's ****, this wouldn't be the case. It's too late to start putting your foot down now though.

 

[Tds &amp; Beer]

Well I want the highly rated "basketball guys" like Cal gets at UK cause those 17ers always win.

When one ofCal's players messes up, he puts them on the bench. When they argue with him,he tellsthem to sit down andshut the 17 up. They respect him.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

When Bost plays like a true point guard - finding and getting others players involved first - we and he are very, very good (see ole miss game).

When Bost plays like he's channeling his inner Kobe, we are not nearly as good, even though Bost puts up good numbers (see Georgia game).

 

[Thick]

demanded all facets of the game to be played they way he demanded! Bullard and Jones got pulled countless times for ill advised shots or playing poor defense. RICK DOES NOT HAVE THE BALLS TO COMMAND THAT KIND OF RESPECT!!! Richard Williams knew how to make his players play on both ends of the court, and if they did not...welcome to the pine. That Final 4 team played hard, played as a team, and respected one another including the coaches.

I don't care if we make a big run. It's taken 14 years to make that run, I don't care about making the NCAA tourney, I want to see us play to our ability every game, and I want to see the Recruiter to start coaching like a true HC. I want Stans to lay out the expectations to every recruit in a manner that explains the work ethic, discipline, and character that should be an MSU athlete. If they don't like it, then 17'em. Give us every Shane Power, Bower, Roberts, Zimmerman, Dampier, etc that want to be an MSU athlete, because they are out there.

 

[freddawg]

a top 3 program before he got there?

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

and that's how Stans and Williams could work together with Stans being the players friend and Williams being the hard ***.

Stans transition into the hard *** obviously didn't take. So now he resides in some weird conbination of the two, having to keep the guys liking him, but also trying to be a disciplinarian. It's probably his biggest challenge.

 

[CoastRat.sixpack]

to earn respect and Rick may be losing sight of the fact that talent and potential are very important but so are character and work ethic. I think this is where Mullen<div>gets it. He sets the expectations on the front end with guys that they are going to have to earn their spot and it is going to be hell to get where they want to be. I think</div><div>Rick has to kiss a bunch of butt to get these guys in the fold and that just carries over, tough spot.</div>

I agree and would add that that is the difference with football and basketball in general. Basketball is a sport where not only can a kid play straight out of high school, they expect to. There really is no such expectation in football - it is a totally different animal. Because of this reality, it is also much easier, and more likely as we have seen far too often, that if the "marquee" players don't get their playing time, or get their way, they move on. <div>
</div><div>I am no defender of Stans, but given the history of losing players (which he presumably came down on), and the new NCAA requirement on graduation rates, etc., it has certainly forced this situation to some degree (the tough spot).

</div>

 

[perch0]

I really think that if Stansbury had a Mullen approach towards the
players, a good bit of them may not like him initially (or ever for that
matter), but for how much they would have had to work their asses off,
they will play that much harder. I feel confident in that.

And if they don't like him initially, we wouldn't be signing them on signing day. There's a definite method to this madness. The "formula" Rick uses to recruit and form his team is as much the reason for his failures as it is his successes. Rick takes chances. Rick sacrifices "basketball IQ" for raw talent. He sacrifices "work ethic" for potential. In the rare circumstances he can get both raw talent and have good student-athletes to boot, we can be really, really good. And when the formula doesn't work perfectly, we can be sporadic at best to just just plain bad.
Rick and his methods have started wearing on some. There definitely is another way to operate. And I think a lot of you are ready to go that other path. High basketball IQs, great work ethics, no attitudes and Wardlaw's "yes sir, sir" requirements can all be met. We will be a different team, though. Instead of bringing in talented players hoping they can mature in these other areas, we will be bringing in good student athletes hoping they can develop an edge on the court. We will still bring in talent, it will just be rare. As rare as getting a Stansbury-recruited talented player who has no attitude problems or a "me-first" persona.

I agree there is a reason a kid from North Carolina is on the MSU basketball team.

 

[Pete Mitchell.sixpack]

This guy writes like another ill-fated poster-turned-journalist who has since been excommunicated.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

I know you will probably say "oh, that was in the70s and80s" and it was... but that is a basketball history that only a few programs in the country do not envy... and, combine that with the fact that they play in FedEx Forum with all of the money of Fred Smith.... Yes, its a top basketball program

 

[perch0]

I use to not believe in abortion but my attitude is changing if these are the kids we are birthing.</p>

I teared up a little I was laughing at this so much

I cried, because the truth hurts.

 

[captaindawg]

NT

 

[drunkernhelldawg]

Looks like you guys are ready to run off the second most successful coach in the history of MSU athletics. Brace yourselves for a few decades of middles of the SEC mediocrity. Maybe Coach Mullen can fulfill your wet dreams. We'll see.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

and Umass too for that matter.

 

[Tds &amp; Beer]

Looks like you guys are ready to run off the second most successful coach in the history of MSU athletics. Brace yourselves for a few decades of middles of the SEC mediocrity.

Are you saying that would be different than now? Because it's not.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

then why would we want to continue to be mediocre using this method? That's the entire point of this debate. We waste more talent than the majority of programs in the country, and that falls on the head coach.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

then why would we want to continue to be mediocre using this method?

Being mediocre but with talent means you have the chance to raise your ceiling and be something special.

Because being mediocre with little to no talent means you are as good as you ever will be.

But I think we will probably get the chance soon to try option #2. We will still be mediocre, but folks will be happy because our players will say "yes sir" when asked if they will enjoy their trip to the NIT.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I just don't see how you get to the fact where you think we can either take Stans' path and have talent but no work ethic/respect OR we can try it the other way and not have any talent. That is what this entire debate between you and I is about.

 

[dawgbydesign]

can be said about his performance of his website.<div>
</div>

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

My belief is based off the history of MSU and the overall suckitude of the West. There is no other sport in the SEC that we recruit in the top half of the league, except basketball. That, in my opinion, is because of the Stansbury formula. Put us back in our rightful place of 11th or 12th in the SEC, and we will be a NIT-hopeful every year (see ole miss).

 

[drunkernhelldawg]

We're one of three SEC teams that are ranked in the national polls, although we fell out of AP. If we can win on the road tonight, we will be back on track. It's up to the players and the coaches though, because I imagine they feel that the "fans" have quit.

 

[freddawg]

has a solid basketball history, but they're not Kentucky or one of the historical top 2-3 basketball programs in the country. That was my point. Calipari recruited the best athletes in the country while he was at Memphis, and they were successful.

We weren't talking about cheating. He definitely has a well documented history of cheating. We were talking about recruiting and players showing the coach respect. He hasn't had that problem.

 

[SyonaraStanz]

We're one of three SEC teams that are ranked in the national polls, although we fell out of AP.

that we are not ranked. Excellent point and rebuttal in one sentence. Stansbury has been at MSU for 14 years, playing in a relatively weak conference most of the time, and mostly (except this year) playing a nonconference schedule that would make Delta State laugh. It's no wonder he is so successful in the wins category.

The man has done a decent job at getting talent on campus. He has also done a great job at running off some of that talent, not developing all of that talent, and underachieving just about every season.

He is a terrible leader and motivator. Those are two qualities required in being a successful coach. There's a reason he's the only SEC coach that voted against getting rid of divisions. Without divisions, he can't spin mediocrity into success.

 

[Flatland Dawg]

or however the hell he spells it.