Dan Mullen hasn't forgotten how to coach football

[diddog]

He just never learned how to recruit. That is the bottom line problem with our program today. His prior success at MSU was a direct result of having a very talented team. I firmly believe that success is primarily about talent. When he arrived in 2009, MSU had a very underrated talent base, primarily because the 2008 season and its record was a crazy and extreme aberration caused by losing, after spring training, 7 out of the most talented 8 players on the team who were lost for the entire season due to suspensions, expulsions, or season ending injury. That type of loss is unheard of in college football. The 2007 team had closed the talent gap with Alabama and Auburn on the starter basis (but not on a depth basis).
The 2009 recruiting class would be re-ranked today as a top 10 class nationally as far as NFL talent. I would argue easily the best class in MSU history. When you inherit a class like that, your team is bound to be pretty good for a while.
The problem is that 2010 and 2011 were atrocious classes, and if anything were over-ranked. The recruiting has gotten much better the past two years, but it is not where it needs to be in the SEC west.
This year could have been seen coming two years ago. Coming into this year, our best OLs were still Gabe Jackson and Tobias Smith, recruited in 2008 and 2009. It's 2013. In 2014's class, I still don't see an OL as good as Gabe Jackson or Tobias Smith.
For MSU to be successful, we must have great recruiting. That includes signing star numbers but also evaluating talent extremely well.

 

[jacksonreb]

it has long been my opinion that recruiting to ole miss and msu will always be harder than a lot of other places and job one for a coaching staff is being very good and hardworking recruiters. when khayat hired orgeron that is exactly what he was trying to accomplish. he just didn't realize the coaching part would be such a cluster17. tommy tubs said when he was hired relative to hiring assistants that he was going to hire great recruiters and figure out the coahing part later. scumbag, but smart

 

[maroonmania]

I agree overall with your assessment that recruiting problems in Mullen's 2nd and 3rd class are largely what is holding us back now. And most of that problem is on offense. Defensive recruiting, while not stellar, has been at a level that we could win if we had the pieces on offense. Like you said first problem is with the OL. We have WAY too many projects for an SEC OL. Hardly any of the guys we have had offers from any other SEC schools and losing Gabe Jackson after this year will not help matters. Then let's go to QB, outside of Dak our QB recruiting has been a train wreck. Getting Williams (though he was a last minute guy) last year and hopefully getting the 2 commits this year may help turn that around but Dan Mullen has struck out more than Dave Kingman when it comes to QB recruiting. And Russell was a Croom guy that Mullen just held onto even though he really doesn't even fit Mullen's offense. Then go to WRs where Mullen did get Bumphis in that first year to come with us but if you think about it in all the years since we really haven't gotten another difference maker as a WR. Certainly nobody that can stretch the field or is someone that the opponent has to gameplan for. We've had pretty good RBs but MSU has ALWAYS had good RBs. TE has just been so-so. The reason Mullen, who is an offensive minded coach, has looked less than stellar coaching offense primarily is because our offensive recruiting has been, well, offensive.

 

[stinkfoot]

Kind of like Nutt, but he didn't have a good class in place when he arrived.

He promptly put together two crap classes and paid for it w/ his job once he had to rely on his own recruits to win. Nutt put together two good classes right before he was fired though. Mullen's '12 and '13 classes are pretty damn solid for a MS team. the problem is consistency. Two bad back to back classes mean you will hit a bump in the road in the future and Mullen's hitting that now (his seniors and juniors come from bad classes). '14 and '15 should be much better.

 

[DerHntr]

The most frustrating part is we didn't take advantage enough of the OM Nutt Debacle when we could have. It is inexcusable that we didn't have at least a good 2011 class considering a primary competitor for recruits was on the decline.

 

[squirldawg]

Mullen's defensive recruiting has been better than at any time I can remember...

outside of Sherrill 2000.

Chris Jones - 5 star
Quay Evans - 5 star
Will Redmond - 4 star
Justin Cox - 4 star
Richie Brown - 4 star
Beniquez Brown - 4 star
Nick James - 4 star
P.J. Jones - 4 star
Kaleb Eulls - 4 star
Dee Arrington - 4 star

These players are likely better than their high school ranking:
Cedric Giles
Matthew Wells
Deonte Skinner
Benardrick McKinney
Jamerson Love

 

[thatsbaseball]

Dan had a lot to learn about being a head coach when he got here and he has proven to be a very slow learner. So yes he hasn`t forgotten what he knew when he got here but he hasn`t progressed very far (if at all) from where he was when he started.

 

[kired]

He hasn’t had terrible classes. Nothing as bad as Croom's 2004 and 2008 classes. Those were horrible.

The problem has been a lack of top notch offensive players, which is extremely disappointing considering we hired the OC from the reigning national champion. Bumphis, Russell, and Perkins have probably been his best offensive recruits --- and they were signed in the first class 4 years ago. Ballard was good but had less of an impact because he was JUCO. Michael Carr is gone, Robert Johnson & Lewis have just now managed to get playing time, Malcolm Johnson gets his 1 or 2 catches a game if lucky. Mullen only got two QBs to campus that even remotely fit his offensive style after 5 signing classes. And I don’t think he’s signed a future NFL offensive lineman other than Jackson (who of course was committed well before Mullen become head coach).

I don’t know that we have any future NFL players on offense other than Jackson. Too early to tell on freshmen but what senior, junior, or sophomore has potential to be drafted? Maybe Russell… maybe Perkins… but like I already said, no one since the first signing class.

I’m still a Mullen supporter but he screwed us bigtime by not getting a few legit offensive players. He’s signed good college players – SEC quality starters. But it’s killing us to not have a few stars sprinkled in. I’m hoping Ross, Wilson, and Shumpert are difference makers going forward.<O</O

 

[fishwater99]

No,I will argue he never knew how to really coach football.

All he knows is what he learned from Urban Meyer.
It's clear that Mullen doesn't know how to run any other type of offense or he would have made changes to suit TR.
Dan was just the yes man for Meyer, just like Les is his yes man at MSU..



Why hasn't Mullen changed to more of a pro-style offense to better suit TR?
Instead of adding plays for TR, we were actually not running some of the playbook b/c of TR's lack of mobility.
Would you not adapt to the talent you have by year 5?? But Mullen's continued to run the same offense. Why, b/c that's all he knows??
He had 2 years to make changes, but nothing has changed.

 

[maroonmania]

No,I will argue he never knew how to really coach football.

All he knows is what he learned from Urban Meyer.
It's clear that Mullen doesn't know how to run any other type of offense or he would have made changes to suit TR.
Dan was just the yes man for Meyer, just like Les is his yes man at MSU..



[FONT=&quot]Why hasn't Mullen changed to more of a pro-style offense to better suit TR?
Instead of adding plays for TR, we were actually not running some of the playbook b/c of TR's lack of mobility.
Would you not adapt to the talent you have by year 5?? But Mullen's continued to run the same offense. Why, b/c that's all he knows??
He had 2 years to make changes, but nothing has changed. [/FONT]

Well based on the FL results with John Brantley its pretty obvious Urban Meyer couldn't adjust to a pro style QB either.

 

[maroonmania]

I’m still a Mullen supporter but he screwed us bigtime by not getting a few legit offensive players. He’s signed good college players – SEC quality starters. But it’s killing us to not have a few stars sprinkled in. I’m hoping Ross, Wilson, and Shumpert are difference makers going forward.<O</O

I'm not sure we have many offensive players you could call SEC quality starters. Seriously, how many starters do we have currently on offense right now that would start for anybody else in the league minus maybe KY? Gabe Jackson for sure but the list is pretty short after that.

 

[kired]

There are a few that could start for other SEC teams (other than Bumphis, Russell, & Perkins) --- both Johnsons, Lewis, Day, Clausell, Dak, Josh Robinson I think would all get legitimate playing time on other SEC teams. Griffin would probably be on that list if not for the injuries. (edit to add: maybe not today, but at some point in their careers for Dak & Robinson)

I don't mean they're the best in the SEC --- I just mean we don't have the least talented starters at every position in the SEC. There have been times in the past when I honestly don't think we had more than 2 or 3 players who would start for even a mediocre SEC team. Some of those Croom teams were terrible. No wonder his offense didn't work.

 

[121Josey]

Dan had a lot to learn about being a head coach when he got here and he has proven to be a very slow learner. So yes he hasn`t forgotten what he knew when he got here but he hasn`t progressed very far (if at all) from where he was when he started.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

I'll add to this that I believe that he got complacent in 2010. I don't know if he thought that the Titanic was going to reach port but almost every decision he made after the 2010 season until after the 2012 season (except hiring Collins) was remorseful. He's only started to right the ship post-2012 season.

So, State will pay for it this season and possibly next season. I do feel that playing this young talent early is his way of speeding up the recovery process and possibly salvaging next season.

 

[Where'sWaldo]

I'd argue that our roster is top to bottom the most talented it has been in a really long time. I believe coaching is the issue with Mullen. He has done very well at talent evaluation(outside of the o line).

 

[Dawgzilla]

I continue to believe that our players are just not well coached. This reflects primarily on the position coaches, I guess, but it all goes back to Mullen.

Yesterday I watched the telecast of the Auburn game. I was at the game, but I had endzone seats and I couldn't see a lot of the issues that were going on. Missed tackles, dropped passes, a muffed handoff while running the option (how does an option team even screw this up?) and very untimely penalties. These are mental errors that good teams don't make, or at least not as often as MSU seems to make them. Could be a recruiting issue to a certain extent, but I blame coaching...and yes I know that the NCAA has limited practice hours to the point that teams don't have much time to work on fundamentals, but those rules effect every team.

 

[johnson86-1]

I'd argue that our roster is top to bottom the most talented it has been in a really long time. I believe coaching is the issue with Mullen. He has done very well at talent evaluation(outside of the o line).

The "to bottom" part is definitely true I think. We don't play anybody where I look at them and think "how the hell are the on the field in the SEC", and we have decent depth everywhere but on the OL. As long as I've been a fan, we've had at least one glaring weakness.

But Mullen is missing playmakers. He just needs an elite player or two on offense that forces defenses to gameplan around them. I think Tyler Russell would be enough of a playmaker if you added one elite wide receiver, and maybe a slightly better OL, but there's not much he can do with the talent around him and the playcalling he gets. I think all of our RBs are pretty damn good, but none are the carry a team on their shoulder type.

 

[Heawww]

I'll agree that when you're talent level is down, it sure makes it looks like your coaching is bad. Who really knows the real truth. I think Mullen has now learned how to recruit, as you see with the 2012 and 2013 classes. But I think we can all agree he missed in 2010 and 2011, and even had some key attrition in 2011 with Redmond and Maiden.

But there is hope. I want him to learn how to recruit JUCOs better. They are a MUST for MSU football to succeed. We have to land guys like Zadarius Smith, Donald Hawkins, Jonathan Rumph, Corey Smith, Lavon Hooks, Mark Beard, even Bo Wallace.

We have failed at JUCO recruiting ever since Vick Ballard and James Carmon signed in 2010. And we missed on other key guys that year. It's got to change. Who have we signed of note since then, Autry, Slay and Cox? Damn. We need to signing 3-4 of those type impact guys every single year. Siddoway, Holley, Trapp, those guys are a joke.

 

[TheOMlawdog]

He promptly put together two crap classes and paid for it w/ his job once he had to rely on his own recruits to win. Nutt put together two good classes right before he was fired though. Mullen's '12 and '13 classes are pretty damn solid for a MS team. the problem is consistency. Two bad back to back classes mean you will hit a bump in the road in the future and Mullen's hitting that now (his seniors and juniors come from bad classes). '14 and '15 should be much better.

Are you saying he didn't have a good class committed when he arrived at MSU? The following players had committed to Croom prior to Mullen showing up:

Gabe Jackson
Fletcher Cox
Josh Boyd
Chris White
Pernell McPhee
Jonathan Banks
Deonte Skinner
Nickoe Whitley
Tyler Russell
Cameron Lawrence
There are
The guys in bold are in the NFL, and the others will have a shot. That is 10 guys who will either play in the NFL or get a really good look. 6 are already on rosters. Out of all of bulldogs in the NFL right now (15 according to espn) 40% of them were already committed to MSU before Mullen arrived. Assuming the four guys i listed make rosters next year, that will mean 10 of the 19 bulldogs in the NFL will have already been committed to MSU before Mullen stepped on campus in one class.

So how crappy was this 2009 class that Mullen inherited?

 

[Heawww]

He was talking about Nutt. May not have communicated clearly, but I don't think anyone with a brain thinks MSU's 2009 class was bad. So not only did you have an axe to grind and let that judge your comprehension, but you did a bunch of MSU internet research for nothing.

 

[maroonmania]

I'd argue that our roster is top to bottom the most talented it has been in a really long time. I believe coaching is the issue with Mullen. He has done very well at talent evaluation(outside of the o line).

I would agree in most places other than OL. Our OLs in the better Sherrill years were MUCH more talented than our current group especially as run blockers.

 

[tcdog70]

we could have signed Bo Wallace but Dan was after Liggins.

 

[Heawww]

I can somewhat understand that one, because we already had a QB. JUCOs are brought in to play. But in hindsight, Wallace was a pretty big one.

 

[stinkfoot]

Correct. Nutt inherited a weak class from O and then proceeded...

He was talking about Nutt. May not have communicated clearly, but I don't think anyone with a brain thinks MSU's 2009 class was bad. So not only did you have an axe to grind and let that judge your comprehension, but you did a bunch of MSU internet research for nothing.

to sign another weak class all on his own and these two poor classes are what did him in. You can have an occasional poor class but you can't really have two in a row. Mullen had two in a row but he also recently signed two very good ones in a row.