Delusion thy name is Ole Miss

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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Be funny if Lynn Fitch steps in and says his contract is illegal by state law and he leaves due to length of contract
It is “illegal” according to existing ag opinion. That opinion was pretty much always incorrect, but everybody has pretty much ignored that up til now.
 

WestDawg

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Aug 24, 2012
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Will be very interesting - I would just about bet this contract will be taken to court even if it’s not any of the said parties directly to court. If that has been the legal standing for this length of time, and they want to challenge it in this manner, someone is gonna push back
 

Dawgzilla2

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Oct 9, 2022
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It is “illegal” according to existing ag opinion. That opinion was pretty much always incorrect, but everybody has pretty much ignored that up til now.
It is illegal. I suppose the boosters could sign Lane to a "personal services" contract for 8 years, but if that contract is in any way tied to his employment by the State, then it is void after 4 years. And there is no way they can structure the deal so it is not tied to his employment as head coach.
 

L4Dawg

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What will happen is that either he will try to leave or they will try to fire him before the 8 years is up. Then one party will sue and the state will be on the hook for UM's side of the legal bills. Then Carter, their Chancellor, and their boosters better hope it's legal.
 

Clay Lyle

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Sep 30, 2022
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Don’t think Jimmy Sexton won’t screw over Ole Miss in the eleventh hour. Many believed Sexton preferred to get Freeze to Auburn and get Kiffin a huge raise at Ole Miss. Now that Freeze isn’t getting the job and there are potential legal challenges to Kiffin’s new unsigned contract, he may actually push Kiffin to the Plains.
 

johnson86-1

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It is illegal. I suppose the boosters could sign Lane to a "personal services" contract for 8 years, but if that contract is in any way tied to his employment by the State, then it is void after 4 years. And there is no way they can structure the deal so it is not tied to his employment as head coach.
I think that’s probably not right. The ag gave an opinion that the schools probably asked for so they could say their hands are tied. If a foundation entered into a contract guaranteeing payment beyond 4 years, then there’s no good reason it wouldn’t be enforceable. Be a pretty big political risk that it’s be unenforceable if they had a suit in state court.
 

patdog

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That back half of the 8 year contract is pretend money - they will roll it over every year if he is successful. Also if they ever do fire him, good luck getting your buyout from boosters made up of Mississippi personal injury lawyers.
That’s what it looks like. Routing the back half of the contract through the foundation probably wouldn’t stand up to a legal challenge. The foundations are a part of the university. All this is is a 4-year contract with an unenforceable promise to roll it over for 4 more years.
 

Dawgzilla2

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I think that’s probably not right. The ag gave an opinion that the schools probably asked for so they could say their hands are tied. If a foundation entered into a contract guaranteeing payment beyond 4 years, then there’s no good reason it wouldn’t be enforceable. Be a pretty big political risk that it’s be unenforceable if they had a suit in state court.
They can probably pay him over more than 4 years, but they cannot have an employment contract that exceeds 4 years.

So what are they going to do? Guarantee him $72 million over 8 years, but only require him to work for 4 years? So he can just walk away after 4 years and collect his additional $36 million for doing nothing?

Or, if he stays for a 5th year, how do they pay him? The $36 million they already guaranteed was for the first for years. Does he work for free the 5th year, thereby proving it was an illegal contract all along?

Remember, these are the same geniuses who thought they could shield an NCAA letter from a FOIA request because the letter was addressed to an attorney. (For the uninformed, attorney client privilege protects certain communications between an attorney and client, not an attorney and a third party).
 

johnson86-1

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They can probably pay him over more than 4 years, but they cannot have an employment contract that exceeds 4 years.

So what are they going to do? Guarantee him $72 million over 8 years, but only require him to work for 4 years? So he can just walk away after 4 years and collect his additional $36 million for doing nothing?

Or, if he stays for a 5th year, how do they pay him? The $36 million they already guaranteed was for the first for years. Does he work for free the 5th year, thereby proving it was an illegal contract all along?

Remember, these are the same geniuses who thought they could shield an NCAA letter from a FOIA request because the letter was addressed to an attorney. (For the uninformed, attorney client privilege protects certain communications between an attorney and client, not an attorney and a third party).
They can have the foundation or another private entity enter into a contract that provides a payout if ole miss doesn’t renew his contract pass 4 years and nothing has happened that would constitute cause to fire him. If he voluntarily leaves or refuses to renew on the same terms then that terminates the private entity’s obligation. That’s always been an option but schools like to hide behind the ag opinion, but all an ag opinion does is provide immunity to the state employee or officer. If a private entity offers a guarantee beyond what the school can, there’s no way to sue the state employee that doesn’t control the private entity so the immunity is pretty pointless.
 

jethreauxdawg

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Since the most recent SEC expansion in 2012 (11 seasons) Ole Miss is #10 in the multi-year standings, #6 in the West while being the only West team to play Vanderbilt every year.
Where do we rank in those multi-year standings?
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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Thats an unreasonable expectation.
Its similar to all the posters on here who claim finishing 10-2 this season 'was easy' or who expect us to be a top15 team every week and not lose any of the overall 50-50 matchups.
 

Dawgzilla2

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They can have the foundation or another private entity enter into a contract that provides a payout if ole miss doesn’t renew his contract pass 4 years and nothing has happened that would constitute cause to fire him. If he voluntarily leaves or refuses to renew on the same terms then that terminates the private entity’s obligation. That’s always been an option but schools like to hide behind the ag opinion, but all an ag opinion does is provide immunity to the state employee or officer. If a private entity offers a guarantee beyond what the school can, there’s no way to sue the state employee that doesn’t control the private entity so the immunity is pretty pointless.
Thats not a multi year contract, thats a retirement plan. But the fact your deal is contingent upon Kiffin signing a contract extension makes it tied to his employment, and illegal.

I get that athletic coaches at State universities are not the type of state employees the taxpayers need to oversee, but until a statutory exception exists they are governed by the same rules.

Do you think it would be okay for the utility companies to set up a multi million dollar payout to the public service commissioners? Well. They are elected, so maybe their deal would be with the highest ranking non elected employee, who probably has a lot of influence. It would be blatantly illegal no matter how you structured it.
 

patdog

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They can have the foundation or another private entity enter into a contract that provides a payout if ole miss doesn’t renew his contract pass 4 years and nothing has happened that would constitute cause to fire him. If he voluntarily leaves or refuses to renew on the same terms then that terminates the private entity’s obligation. That’s always been an option but schools like to hide behind the ag opinion, but all an ag opinion does is provide immunity to the state employee or officer. If a private entity offers a guarantee beyond what the school can, there’s no way to sue the state employee that doesn’t control the private entity so the immunity is pretty pointless.
Problem is these foundations aren't really private entities. They're a part of the universities and are controlled by the universities and exist solely to support the universities. If you look at the universities' financial statements, they include the "private" foundations.
 

johnson86-1

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Problem is these foundations aren't really private entities. They're a part of the universities and are controlled by the universities and exist solely to support the universities. If you look at the universities' financial statements, they include the "private" foundations.
If they are controlled by the university then that is correct. I thought I had looked a long time ago and they actually had independence, but I'm not sure what I looked at to think that. May have just mistakenly looked at the board members. Still won't stop the people writing the checks from entering into an agreement separate from the foundation, but probably won't be able to have any portion of their donations be tax deductible whereas I guess they could if they gave the money to a foundation without specifying it's for a buyout. May be something other than the four year limitation that would stop that.
 

grimedawg1

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If they are controlled by the university then that is correct. I thought I had looked a long time ago and they actually had independence, but I'm not sure what I looked at to think that. May have just mistakenly looked at the board members. Still won't stop the people writing the checks from entering into an agreement separate from the foundation, but probably won't be able to have any portion of their donations be tax deductible whereas I guess they could if they gave the money to a foundation without specifying it's for a buyout. May be something other than the four year limitation that would stop that.
I don't understand this idea that running the contract thru the Foundation is a magic bullet. The supplemental parts of these contracts have always run through the Foundations. I have heard the additional term is going to be for personal service. But, if he isn't coaching football, what possible service could he provide that would be worth $9 million? For instance, if he is fired after 2 years and is supposedly owed 6 years, anything beyond four years may be unenforceable in MS, and if the Foundation pays it, is the extra 4 years for personal service going to result in any sort of problems for the Foundation with the IRS? Seems like the IRS would have a problem with a tax exempt organization paying $9 million for a personal service (as opposed to coaching) that has to be way, way over the fair market value of that service - and expose the Foundation to tax issues. Will be interesting to see what sort of agreement is eventually inked.
 
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johnson86-1

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I don't understand this idea that running the contract thru the Foundation is a magic bullet. The supplemental parts of these contracts have always run through the Foundations. I have heard the additional term is going to be for personal service. But, if he isn't coaching football, what possible service could he provide that would be worth $9 million? For instance, if he is fired after 2 years and is supposedly owed 6 years, anything beyond four years may be unenforceable in MS, and if the Foundation pays it, is the extra 4 years for personal service going to result in any sort of problems for the Foundation with the IRS? Seems like the IRS would have a problem with a tax exempt organization paying $9 million for a personal service (as opposed to coaching) that has to be way, way over the fair market value of that service - and expose the Foundation to tax issues. Will be interesting to see what sort of agreement is eventually inked.
The magic bullet is having a government entity enter into a contract that does not extend past 4 years and a private entity enter into a contract that covers what the university's contract does not. If the foundation is owned or controlled by the state or a state entity, it can't be used by the university to do things that state law won't allow the university itself to do. If it were truly independent, it could.
 

msstatelp1

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Could they get around it by offering an NIL deal that starts at the end of his 4 year contract and was contingent on him being the HC?
 

NTDawg

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Problem is these foundations aren't really private entities. They're a part of the universities and are controlled by the universities and exist solely to support the universities. If you look at the universities' financial statements, they include the "private" foundations.
Correct and that's why Hugh's cell phone records, paid by foundation, were subject to a public records request. The foundation's funds are funds that are entitled to university. Benefits received for donated money are given from the university, everything from seating priority to naming rights.
 
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MeridianDog

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Same dude, 2 days ago

They need to include a requirement for terminating his employment with cause if he doesn't win the national championship next year. Tell him, "If you are as good as we dream you are, then win win win, or out you go." No losses will be acceptable.
 

Cantdoitsal

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They need to include a requirement for terminating his employment with cause if he doesn't win the national championship next year. Tell him, "If you are as good as we dream you are, then win win win, or out you go." No losses will be acceptable.
Fired for not winning a Natty by the Same Folks who just Jacked his Salary to $10M after losing 4 of his last 5 games including the Egg Bowl? When's the 17 that ever happened? Ever? By Anybody? ( I reallize you were BS'iting a bit)
 

MeridianDog

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Fired for not winning a Natty by the Same Folks who just Jacked his Salary to $10M after losing 4 of his last 5 games including the Egg Bowl? When's the 17 that ever happened? Ever? By Anybody? ( I reallize you were BS'iting a bit)
BSing a lot... forgot sarcasterics. Truefully, they are paying him national champion salary level money.
 
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Brew_Dawg

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I wonder how Jimmy's fee is setup. Is it percentage of salary? If so, how many of those Benjamin's is he getting? And if a coach is given a buyout, does he take a cut too?