Did I sleep through H1N1 pandemic?

[Bill Derington]

I always get this sense that you're constantly trying to get this idea across that the numbers are over inflated but for reasons I don't understand. I know you've shared a lot of concerns about government over reach, which I think can be valid at times.
But bottom line is, I don't know what you're trying communicate.
There wasn't a constant focus on H1N1 because the focus was on the economy since most of America had been hit so hard. There were several large financial institutions that had almost all but shuttered not to long before the virus arrived in the States so most people were scared of losing their job at the time because so many others already had.

My concern is that we may be shutting down the country over a false storyline, and some of you don't even dare question it even when presented with info from the horses mouth that the deaths being presented aren't all because of Covid.
Would you still upport this shutdown and overreach by the state Govt if the actual deaths caused by Covid are a small fraction of whats being contributed to it?

The US Govt is about to financially bailout the state and city of New York to the tune of billions of dollars, I think that's worth taking a closer look at these numbers.

 

[chroix]

My concern is that we may be shutting down the country over a false storyline, and some of you don't even dare question it even when presented with info from the horses mouth that the deaths being presented aren't all because of Covid.
Would you still upport this shutdown and overreach by the state Govt if the actual deaths caused by Covid are a small fraction of whats being contributed to it?

The US Govt is about to financially bailout the state and city of New York to the tune of billions of dollars, I think that's worth taking a closer look at these numbers.

Its all been an elaborate hustle by the Dems. Everything can go back to normal now that you and your brain trust got to the bottom of it all.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

OP to answer your question no you didn't sleep through H1N1 the media did. I wouldn't have no idea why they wouldn't have covered it the same though. opcorn:

 

[SuporChin]

My concern is that we may be shutting down the country over a false storyline, and some of you don't even dare question it even when presented with info from the horses mouth that the deaths being presented aren't all because of Covid.
Would you still upport this shutdown and overreach by the state Govt if the actual deaths caused by Covid are a small fraction of whats being contributed to it?

The US Govt is about to financially bailout the state and city of New York to the tune of billions of dollars, I think that's worth taking a closer look at these numbers.

There are several separate sources that speak to how bad this is right now. All the numbers and countless stories have shown how bad this is and how bad it could get if measures aren't taken.
I'm concerned about the bailout just like I was with the last one.
You show concern about overinflated numbers, but why would medical professionals choose to conflate the number of mortalities? What's the end game here?

 

[sambowieshin_rivals]

in all likelihood, H1N1 was more than likely responsible for upwards of 30,000 deaths, the way covid is being reported. See that difference.

Science and facts are my source vs Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. See the difference?
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

 

[Bill Derington]

There are several separate sources that speak to how bad this is right now. All the numbers and countless stories have shown how bad this is and how bad it could get if measures aren't taken.
I'm concerned about the bailout just like I was with the last one.
You show concern about overinflated numbers, but why would medical professionals choose to conflate the number of mortalities? What's the end game here?

The CDC website states that any person that dies and tests positive, or isn't tested but shows symptoms should be listed as a Covid death. Dr Birx stated the same yesterday when asked, she also said that some countries are conservative on what they call a Covid death, but the US is very liberal on it.

Why would they choose to conflate the numbers? Money, the Federal Govt is going to reimburse, the more stress you can show the more money you'll get. The Federal govt just used the scare to inject 2.2 trillion dollars, and are working on an infrastructure plan now. I think many in Washington have come to the conclusion, correctly, that we need to decouple from China. How do you do that without crippling the economy, and under normal conditions how do you justify it? Covid gave them the justification, and the crippled economy.

 

[Bill Derington]

Its all been an elaborate hustle by the Dems. Everything can go back to normal now that you and your brain trust got to the bottom of it all.

So you're perfectly fine sheltering in place even if its being misrepresented? I never said it was a dem hustle.

 

[TheEgyptianMagician]

During H1N1, you couldn't afford to crash/restructure the economy without the significant possibility of it never recovering.

 

[SuporChin]

The CDC website states that any person that dies and tests positive, or isn't tested but shows symptoms should be listed as a Covid death. Dr Birx stated the same yesterday when asked, she also said that some countries are conservative on what they call a Covid death, but the US is very liberal on it.

Why would they choose to conflate the numbers? Money, the Federal Govt is going to reimburse, the more stress you can show the more money you'll get. The Federal govt just used the scare to inject 2.2 trillion dollars, and are working on an infrastructure plan now. I think many in Washington have come to the conclusion, correctly, that we need to decouple from China. How do you do that without crippling the economy, and under normal conditions how do you justify it? Covid gave them the justification, and the crippled economy.

So you your proposing that some politicians in the federal government saw that we needed to decouple from China, and in order to do that the economy needed to crash. These same people now saw the chance to tank the economy with everyone so afraid of the virus. The numbers are being artificially inflated in order to convince everyone that the virus is scarier than it actually is.

Is that what you're sharing here? Did I get that right?

 

[BlueVelvetFog]

Now that I can recall..I indeed slept through H1N1–as it pretty much comatosed me

 

[Bill Derington]

So you your proposing that some politicians in the federal government saw that we needed to decouple from China, and in order to do that the economy needed to crash. These same people now saw the chance to tank the economy with everyone so afraid of the virus. The numbers are being artificially inflated in order to convince everyone that the virus is scarier than it actually is.

Is that what you're sharing here? Did I get that right?

The numbers are being artificially inflated, per the CDC, are you saying they aren't? Do you have info that Dr Birx doesn't have, or are you saying she's lying?

Did the politician, that was just put in charge of overseeing the 2.2 trillion dollar allocation, not say that they needed to use this crisis to get things inserted in the bill to further their agenda? "Never let a crisis go to waste" isn't just a catch phrase, a crisis provides cover.

 

[KRJ1975]

I read through 2 pages of this and had to stop. Jesus Christ, people.

 

[SuporChin]

The numbers are being artificially inflated, per the CDC, are you saying they aren't? Do you have info that Dr Birx doesn't have, or are you saying she's lying?

Did the politician, that was just put in charge of overseeing the 2.2 trillion dollar allocation, not say that they needed to use this crisis to get things inserted in the bill to further their agenda? "Never let a crisis go to waste" isn't just a catch phrase, a crisis provides cover.

I straight up asked a question and you haven't answered it. I asked you if you believed that the government is using the virus as an opportunity to crash the economy in order to decouple it from China. Do you or do you not believe that?
So either step up to the plate and answer the question or take your ball and go home.

 

[magic8ball]

I read through 2 pages of this and had to stop. Jesus Christ, people.

Yep, mostly a political pissing match instead of fact checking or educating oneself.

Typical around here.

 

[Bill Derington]

I straight up asked a question and you haven't answered it. I asked you if you believed that the government is using the virus as an opportunity to crash the economy in order to decouple it from China. Do you or do you not believe that?
So either step up to the plate and answer the question or take your ball and go home.

I think the govt is going to take advantage of the situation before us to decouple from China. I wouldn't say the govt intentionally crashed the economy.

 

[P19978]

I think the govt is going to take advantage of the situation before us to decouple from China. I wouldn't say the govt intentionally crashed the economy.

Expanding on that, after the Nov election, I fully expect Trump to play HARDBALL with the Chinese.

There will no reason to hold back... and he'll have have a TON of support, especially if the message is along the lines of "Look what the Chinese did to us... let's bring ALL the jobs back to the USA!".

The folks who won't support it will be the mainstream media and liberals, neither of which matter.

 

[SuporChin]

I think the govt is going to take advantage of the situation before us to decouple from China. I wouldn't say the govt intentionally crashed the economy.

Okay, so medical professionals are inflating numbers (for reasons you haven't explained why they would do that) but the government is going to take advantage of the economy crashing in order to decouple the nation from China?

 

[Bill Derington]

Okay, so medical professionals are inflating numbers (for reasons you haven't explained why they would do that) but the government is going to take advantage of the economy crashing in order to decouple the nation from China?

I have explained it, you can choose to accept it or deny it as it plays out before you, I really don’t care.
Yes, govts take advantage of crisis to get things they want. Be it Federal or state.
We are labeling every death a Covid death if they test positive, and even without a test if they have symptoms. That doesn’t happen with other diseases.

 

[chroix]

There need to be hearings for any and all of the senators and any and all members of congress and the administration that sold stocks immediately following classified briefings and or with inside information. If we’re supposed to be at war, I’d assume anyone profiting from the enemy is a traitor.

 

[SuporChin]

I have explained it, you can choose to accept it or deny it as it plays out before you, I really don’t care.
Yes, govts take advantage of crisis to get things they want. Be it Federal or state.
We are labeling every death a Covid death if they test positive, and even without a test if they have symptoms. That doesn’t happen with other diseases.

You've not explained anything at all. You said you believe that medical professionals are inflating the fatalities but you didn't give a reason why they would do something like that. You claim the huge fake numbers being bumped up scares a lot of people and the economy crashes and now the government is going to take advantage of that.

What you're claiming is a huge conspiracy theory based on flimsy anecdotal evidence. You never gave a reason why doctors would fake fatalities. Why would the government wait till the economy is tanking to separate it from China? I can tell that's not how economics work. You don't need to wait for a recession to happen in order to sever trade with another country. I can guarantee you the President would never fully break off trade with one of our biggest trading partners in the world. Do you have any idea how many precious metals that are used in smart phones come from China alone?
All you've brought to the table so far is a bunch of half-baked ideas only based on one narrow world view.

 

[bluthruandthru]

I haven't found where deaths with symptoms only(no test) being counted. The CDC says they aren't doing that, as far as I can find.

I could see that the more deaths attributed to COVID would lead to more monies being distributed to that state or hospital. Hopefully, that is not the case.


Pneumonia deaths are included to provide context for understanding the completeness of COVID-19 mortality data and related trends. Deaths due to COVID-19 may be misclassified as pneumonia deaths in the absence of positive test results, and pneumonia may appear on death certificates as a comorbid condition. Thus, increases in pneumonia deaths may be an indicator of excess COVID-19-related mortality. Additionally, estimates of completeness for pneumonia deaths may provide context for understanding the lag in reporting for COVID-19 deaths, as it is anticipated that these causes would have similar delays in reporting, processing, and coding. However, it is possible that reporting of COVID-19 mortality may be slower or faster than for other causes of death, and that the delay may change over time. Analyses to better understand and quantify reporting delays for COVID-19 deaths and related causes are underway. The list of causes provided in these tables may expand in future releases as more data are received, and other potentially comorbid conditions are determined.

------------------
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention counts only deaths in which the presence of the coronavirus is confirmed in a laboratory test. “We know that it is an underestimation,” agency spokeswoman Kristen Nordlund said.

 

[Bill Derington]

You've not explained anything at all. You said you believe that medical professionals are inflating the fatalities but you didn't give a reason why they would do something like that. You claim the huge fake numbers being bumped up scares a lot of people and the economy crashes and now the government is going to take advantage of that.

What you're claiming is a huge conspiracy theory based on flimsy anecdotal evidence. You never gave a reason why doctors would fake fatalities. Why would the government wait till the economy is tanking to separate it from China? I can tell that's not how economics work. You don't need to wait for a recession to happen in order to sever trade with another country. I can guarantee you the President would never fully break off trade with one of our biggest trading partners in the world. Do you have any idea how many precious metals that are used in smart phones come from China alone?
All you've brought to the table so far is a bunch of half-baked ideas only based on one narrow world view.

Always follow the money, I’ve told you at least twice now that NYC is going to get a Federal bailout from this. How many billions were set aside in aid package strictly for hospitals? Guess which ones will get most from that, hospitals hit hardest by Covid that needed help.
You’re leaving out one big factor in decoupling, and I didn’t mean every single piece of commerce from China, politics.

If you’re a member of the govt and you want to start decoupling, yet the economy is roaring? That will immediately hammer the economy, people will lose jobs and you will lose an election. However, if China has cut loose a sickness on the world, you’re economy had crashed overnight, then people are much more likely to accept short term pain that would incur from decoupling. We will never, short of war cut out all trade with China, and shouldn’t.
Don’t believe me, that’s fine, it’s a message board full of differing opinions, but that’s how it will play out.

 

[Bill Derington]

I haven't found where deaths with symptoms only(no test) being counted. The CDC says they aren't doing that, as far as I can find.

I could see that the more deaths attributed to COVID would lead to more monies being distributed to that state or hospital. Hopefully, that is not the case.


Pneumonia deaths are included to provide context for understanding the completeness of COVID-19 mortality data and related trends. Deaths due to COVID-19 may be misclassified as pneumonia deaths in the absence of positive test results, and pneumonia may appear on death certificates as a comorbid condition. Thus, increases in pneumonia deaths may be an indicator of excess COVID-19-related mortality. Additionally, estimates of completeness for pneumonia deaths may provide context for understanding the lag in reporting for COVID-19 deaths, as it is anticipated that these causes would have similar delays in reporting, processing, and coding. However, it is possible that reporting of COVID-19 mortality may be slower or faster than for other causes of death, and that the delay may change over time. Analyses to better understand and quantify reporting delays for COVID-19 deaths and related causes are underway. The list of causes provided in these tables may expand in future releases as more data are received, and other potentially comorbid conditions are determined.

------------------
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention counts only deaths in which the presence of the coronavirus is confirmed in a laboratory test. “We know that it is an underestimation,” agency spokeswoman Kristen Nordlund said.

Read down further on that page under technical notes.
“COVID-19 deaths may also be classified or defined differently in various reporting and surveillance systems. Death counts in this report include laboratory confirmed COVID-19 deaths and clinically confirmed COVID-19 deaths. This includes deaths where COVID-19 is listed as a “presumed” or “probable” cause. Some local and state health departments only report laboratory-confirmed COVID deaths.”

That is direct copy from the CDC website.

 

[bluthruandthru]

Read down further on that page under technical notes.
“COVID-19 deaths may also be classified or defined differently in various reporting and surveillance systems. Death counts in this report include laboratory confirmed COVID-19 deaths and clinically confirmed COVID-19 deaths. This includes deaths where COVID-19 is listed as a “presumed” or “probable” cause. Some local and state health departments only report laboratory-confirmed COVID deaths.”

That is direct copy from the CDC website.

That's a good point.


So it seems that the spokesperson is not giving the full truth unless the website is wrong.

She says only test confirmed counted while website says presumed can be counted. Definitely a difference.

I believe the argument is that it's a wash between deaths that aren't presumed and are Covid and those that are presumed and aren't.

I think it's a valid question and should be expounded on by someone. I'm not going to think the worst yet, though.

 

[The-Hack]

I think it's a valid question and should be expounded on by someone. I'm not going to think the worst yet, though.

I’m sure this will be studied for decades.

 

[The-Hack]

China has cut loose a sickness on the world, you’re economy had crashed overnight, then people are much more likely to accept short term pain that would incur from decoupling.

We will agree on little, Bill, but on this we agree. I’m tired of cheap Chinese ish, and buy American where I can.

This is a wake up call.

American made shoes, boots, clothing and tools are worth the price difference, because they are made better.

 

[Bill Derington]

We will agree on little, Bill, but on this we agree. I’m tired of cheap Chinese ish, and buy American where I can.

This is a wake up call.

American made shoes, boots, clothing and tools are worth the price difference, because they are made better.

I agree, in my opinion it’s long overdue.

We probably agree on a lot more than we disagree, Hack.

 

[Bill Derington]

That's a good point.


So it seems that the spokesperson is not giving the full truth unless the website is wrong.

She says only test confirmed counted while website says presumed can be counted. Definitely a difference.

I believe the argument is that it's a wash between deaths that aren't presumed and are Covid and those that are presumed and aren't.

I think it's a valid question and should be expounded on by someone. I'm not going to think the worst yet, though.

I don’t think the spokesperson intentionally misled, I think the CDC website leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

That's a good point.


So it seems that the spokesperson is not giving the full truth unless the website is wrong.

She says only test confirmed counted while website says presumed can be counted. Definitely a difference.

I believe the argument is that it's a wash between deaths that aren't presumed and are Covid and those that are presumed and aren't.

I think it's a valid question and should be expounded on by someone. I'm not going to think the worst yet, though.

No, the spokesperson was being truthful.

The difference is that you’re comparing two totally different measurement processes. The process that will count probable COVID-19 deaths is the CDC process that is based of analyzing what’s listed on death certificates. That process takes a significant amount of time and requires substantial manual effort and follow up investigation. Because of this, it lags by a few weeks.

The spokesperson was referring to the daily updates that are provided. That information is collected and provided by state and local public health officials. For the vast majority of agencies, they only count deaths that also had a positive COVID test.

So the spokesperson was referring to what the public health agencies are reporting while the website addresses the CDC process based on death certificates.

More importantly, the task force was asked explicitly today about the notion that deaths are somehow inflated. Dr. Fauci, in particular, dismissed this as nonsense. He said it was nothing but a conspiracy theory and a distraction. He said these types of conspiracy theories always pop up during public health emergencies and should be ignored.

Meanwhile, New York has announced that they are looking into the staggering number of deaths occurring outside of hospitals and may be revising their death counts because of uncounted deaths.

 

[Bill Derington]

No, the spokesperson was being truthful.

The difference is that you’re comparing two totally different measurement processes. The process that will count probable COVID-19 deaths is the CDC process that is based of analyzing what’s listed on death certificates. That process takes a significant amount of time and requires substantial manual effort and follow up investigation. Because of this, it lags by a few weeks.

The spokesperson was referring to the daily updates that are provided. That information is collected and provided by state and local public health officials. For the vast majority of agencies, they only count deaths that also had a positive COVID test.

So the spokesperson was referring to what the public health agencies are reporting while the website addresses the CDC process based on death certificates.

More importantly, the task force was asked explicitly today about the notion that deaths are somehow inflated. Dr. Fauci, in particular, dismissed this as nonsense. He said it was nothing but a conspiracy theory and a distraction. He said these types of conspiracy theories always pop up during public health emergencies and should be ignored.

Meanwhile, New York has announced that they are looking into the staggering number of deaths occurring outside of hospitals and may be revising their death counts because of uncounted deaths.

Of course they will, and guess how they will do that? Clinically, which is without a test, just as the CDC website says.
Dr Fauci brushed aside the antibody test as well.

It isn’t a conspiracy theory, it says it right there on the website. That is the deaths attributed to Covid either through test or clinical observation.

 

[The-Hack]

We probably agree on a lot more than we disagree, Hack.[/QUOTE]

I’ve always believed “outsourcing” by our corporations was to break the Unions’ backs, and they did it.

I’ll gladly see the American working man and woman earn a good wage and pay more, though I may have to buy less.

 

[Bill Derington]

We probably agree on a lot more than we disagree, Hack.

I’ve always believed “outsourcing” by our corporations was to break the Unions’ backs, and they did it[/QUOTE]

I’ll gladly see the American working man and woman earn a good wage and pay more, though I may have to buy less.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, we probably agree on more than we disagree.

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

Of course they will, and guess how they will do that? Clinically, which is without a test, just as the CDC website says.
Dr Fauci brushed aside the antibody test as well.

It isn’t a conspiracy theory, it says it right there on the website. That is the deaths attributed to Covid either through test or clinical observation.

NY will do that clinically, but that’s because they have not been doing that up to this point. It represents a policy shift that they are going to be implementing. Hence the concern that NY deaths may be significantly under reported.

And that’s not the conspiracy theory I was referring to and you know that. The conspiracy theory is the nonsense that you in particular have been endlessly repeating that every single death with a positive test is counted as a COVID death and that the deaths are significantly over stated.

That was shot down as nonsense.

 

[Bill Derington]

NY will do that clinically, but that’s because they have not been doing that up to this point. It represents a policy shift that they are going to be implementing. Hence the concern that NY deaths may be significantly under reported.

And that’s not the conspiracy theory I was referring to and you know that. The conspiracy theory is the nonsense that you in particular have been endlessly repeating that every single death with a positive test is counted as a COVID death and that the deaths are significantly over stated.


That was shot down as nonsense.

So you think every death counted is because of Covid?

Every death is counted as Covid if they test positive, that isn’t even up for debate at this point. We have elected officials stating that.

You’re the one that brought up someone hitting a telephone poll and testing positive, and what did I say about that? You know damn well I wasn’t referring to that.
They have been doing that clinically or the CDC wouldn’t have that on their website. It clearly says that some states report only positive tests, and some states report clinical as well. I’ll be a dollar to a donut, NY state falls under the latter.

Your prior post you wrote that the CDC numbers take several weeks and have lag for accurate number? So what are we seeing updated everyday? Or is it this, we aren’t seeing the actual numbers the CDC is taking?

The numbers they have on their site only show about 5000 Covid deaths, could that be what Fauci is arguing isn’t right?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

So you think every death counted is because of Covid?

Every death is counted as Covid if they test positive, that isn’t even up for debate at this point. We have elected officials stating that.

You’re the one that brought up someone hitting a telephone poll and testing positive, and what did I say about that? You know damn well I wasn’t referring to that.
They have been doing that clinically or the CDC wouldn’t have that on their website. It clearly says that some states report only positive tests, and some states report clinical as well. I’ll be a dollar to a donut, NY state falls under the latter.

Your prior post you wrote that the CDC numbers take several weeks and have lag for accurate number? So what are we seeing updated everyday? Or is it this, we aren’t seeing the actual numbers the CDC is taking?

The numbers they have on their site only show about 5000 Covid deaths, could that be what Fauci is arguing isn’t right?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm

You can be as obtuse as you want, but we both know that’s not what Fauci was referring to. They were asked explicitly about the same conspiracy theory you’ve been repeating and he essentially said it’s ridiculous and something that happens during every public health crisis.

 

[Bill Derington]

You can be as obtuse as you want, but we both know that’s not what Fauci was referring to. They were asked explicitly about the same conspiracy theory you’ve been repeating and he essentially said it’s ridiculous and something that happens during every public health crisis.

Fauci also he couldn’t imagine a coronary death where the patient tested positive wasn’t related to Covid?
Deaths aren’t put forward like this every pandemic.
Again, did you look at the link I provided. Is Dr Fauci speaking on the actual CDC count and not the one in the media every day? Because one is about half the other.
You and I are discussing the one in the media, is Fauci discussing the official account?

 

[rqa]

My concern is that we may be shutting down the country over a false storyline, and some of you don't even dare question it even when presented with info from the horses mouth that the deaths being presented aren't all because of Covid.
Would you still upport this shutdown and overreach by the state Govt if the actual deaths caused by Covid are a small fraction of whats being contributed to it?

The US Govt is about to financially bailout the state and city of New York to the tune of billions of dollars, I think that's worth taking a closer look at these numbers.

Bill, “we may be shutting down the country over a false storyline”...those are your words.
WTF is this “false storyline” and who and how did whoever created this storyline get practically the entire world to go along?
From day 1 people like yourself have said things like “it’s no worse than the seasonal flu”, scoffed at the numbers of deaths when it was “only” 10, 20 (3 weeks ago)... which wasn’t that long ago...now we are at 15,000, will be 20,000 by this weekend. Nine days ago we passed the 1000 deaths/day plateau, now the last two days we’ve been right at 2000/day. Think it hits 3000/day?

You’ve been wrong every step of the way yet you continue to try and find some angle to criticize actions taken. But seriously, “may”?
What if had we done nothing and the number of deaths were now 50,000-100,000 and climbing? What if we had done nothing and our ICUs across the country were having to decide who to let live and who to die because we did nothing, we waited until Bill thought there was an issue and now it is too late, it’s out of control.
What does it take, what would you have to see to get onboard and agree that we’re doing the best we can?

We don’t have a parallel universe that can serve as a control to tell us what would happen if...
My God, we have actions being taken across the globe...everybody is being conned? For whose benefit?

 

[Bill Derington]

Bill, “we may be shutting down the country over a false storyline”...those are your words.
WTF is this “false storyline” and who and how did whoever created this storyline get practically the entire world to go along?
From day 1 people like yourself have said things like “it’s no worse than the seasonal flu”, scoffed at the numbers of deaths when it was “only” 10, 20 (3 weeks ago)... which wasn’t that long ago...now we are at 15,000, will be 20,000 by this weekend. Nine days ago we passed the 1000 deaths/day plateau, now the last two days we’ve been right at 2000/day. Think it hits 3000/day?

You’ve been wrong every step of the way yet you continue to try and find some angle to criticize actions taken. But seriously, “may”?
What if had we done nothing and the number of deaths were now 50,000-100,000 and climbing? What if we had done nothing and our ICUs across the country were having to decide who to let live and who to die because we did nothing, we waited until Bill thought there was an issue and now it is too late, it’s out of control.
What does it take, what would you have to see to get onboard and agree that we’re doing the best we can?

We don’t have a parallel universe that can serve as a control to tell us what would happen if...
My God, we have actions being taken across the globe...everybody is being conned? For whose benefit?

We were told 2.2 million could die, which created the hysteria.

You’re using the presumption I think there is no virus, and people aren’t getting sick, that absolutely isn’t true.

This notion you’re promoting is going to lead to more govt intrusion in our lives.

We don’t have the official death count yet as the CDC numbers don’t match the media numbers.

 

[TheEgyptianMagician]

I've been right all along, you can check the post history, not that I believe it's a conspiracy (since belief implies certainty from imperfect facts/knowledge) but it's certainly plausible maybe even probable he's right.

Who benefits? Qui bono?

Come on. [eyeroll]

The end game for communism is world communism and that's what the Chinese government wants... this is a cold war... everybody who pays attention (not you) understands this.

What you (your side) thought was the best way to tackle that threat was through globalism: encourage them to become Communist capitalists and then from there you could convince them into adopting freedom. Everything that happens is essentially a part of this cold war, whether the virus itself is incidental, coincidental or accidental is really immaterial.

What do I think is most probable? THe virus was accidental, the world leaders got scared and overreacted to bad modeling from the scientific community or at the very best they figured there was sufficient reasoning to take the necessary precautions we did (which I supported), such that any real threat to our nation would be squelched by scaring everyone straight such that we had sufficient resources as a nation to cover for our hotspots like NO, NYC, the northeast corridor as whole whatever.

 

[rqa]

We were told 2.2 million could die, which created the hysteria.

You’re using the presumption I think there is no virus, and people aren’t getting sick, that absolutely isn’t true.

This notion you’re promoting is going to lead to more govt intrusion in our lives.

We don’t have the official death count yet as the CDC numbers don’t match the media numbers.

Again, we don’t have a parallel universe to compare no action vs actions taken. And frankly, we don’t know how many will end up dying. 3.5 weeks ago less than 100 had died, today 15,000 have died and the rate continues to climb. It’s hitting NYC hard right now...what if it hits Chicago, Los Angeles, Houston, Philadelphia, Miami, etc equally hard? Can you assure us it won’t?
They are building out mobile hospitals in Louisville and Lexington in anticipation of increased need.

This isn’t the first time government has “intruded” into the lives of Americans. They took even more severe intrusions during WWII not to mention the Civil War. Did you have a problem with those?
Is it your claim that it is never justified?

Again I ask, where do we have to get that you get on board and agree that this was all necessary? If deaths are well below what was first predicted how will you reconcile with the possibility that the reason they were lower is because of the preventative actions taken?

Where is the line for you? Does it have to kill someone in your family for you to take notice or is there a body count you need to see?

Were Bill in charge, how would things be different?

BTW, the numbers are always changing so each report is going to be dependent on when the numbers are read and the sources from which they are taken which are all updated at different intervals.