Did keeping Lemonis too long have a silver lining?

[thekimmer]

I for one was very insistent that Lemonis deserved to be canned after the 2023 season. He instead got two more. But what would have happened if he had been let go in 2023 or 2024?

Pure speculation, but I doubt we would have gotten O'Conner or anyone like him. Selmon being a newly hired I believe we would have gone status quo and made another underwhelming hire. As painful as it was, I think hanging on to Lem a couple of years too long might have actually worked out for the best. Of course it yet to be seen as BO hasn't coached a single game, but he certainly way exceeded expectations leading up to the season.

Thoughts?

 

[maroontide06]

"Abandon all hope, ye who cheer for the maroon & white." - SPS Magazine

 

[TTKADawg]

The Baseball Gods were looking down! I had never thought about that; scary as hell now to think.

 

[Drebin]

It's clear that keeping Lemonis longer than we should have presented an opportunity to hire Oak that wouldn't have been there before. But we should look at the two separately. We went out and made a big boy hire as we should have. But we also kept the previous guy too long and did damage to the program. You can't justify bad decisions because more often than not you won't get lucky on the back end like we did this time.

 

[The Peeper]

Back to back last and next to last finishes in conference should get you fired regardless of how long the AD has been on campus. Lemon got lazy after his fire truck ride down University Dr in the parade after they won the Natty and and never recovered. He didn't get out and recruit, he barely got off that damn bucket to even argue a call. I've never been so miserable watching MSU baseball, two seasons of being the laughing stock of the conference. I suppose everything happens for a reason but those 2 seasons will never be forgotten

 

[Villagedawg]

Yet to be seen.

 

[Anon1684630174]

At the time, one of the hot names was Justin Haire at Campbell and if you believe all of the message board talk and rumors, he was all set to come here. If i remember correctly, he interviewed at Georgia but “pulled his name out” which could have actually been the case b/c at the time the baseball writers reported that Georgia wasn’t willing to put enough money into baseball and it was hurting their efforts in hiring a coach. Georgia ended up hiring the midget so it has worked out for them so far. Anyway, we didn’t fire Lemonis and Haire stayed at Campbell one more year and then went to Ohio St. where he is now.

I’m pretty confident that our baseball boosters were taking with Haire and had him queed up to take the job but Lemonis survived.

 

[TheBannerM]

Curt Cignetti to Mississippi State in 2028 confirmed.

 

[aTotal360]

Hush. The dead engines are listening.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Back to back last and next to last finishes in conference should get you fired regardless of how long the AD has been on campus. Lemon got lazy after his fire truck ride down University Dr in the parade after they won the Natty and and never recovered. He didn't get out and recruit, he barely got off that damn bucket to even argue a call. I've never been so miserable watching MSU baseball, two seasons of being the laughing stock of the conference. I suppose everything happens for a reason but those 2 seasons will never be forgotten

I've already forgotten about it. A super regional hosting will erase it forever.

 

[POTUS]

I'm sure all these posters crowning us as champs before a game is played won't come back to bite them.****

 

[oh yeah]

I Think it’s pretty ironic that the guy that made a questionable coaching decision against us, that led to our greatest season, now has the opportunity to get us another great season at some point.

 

[Drebin]

I Think it’s pretty ironic that the guy that made a questionable coaching decision against us, that led to our greatest season, now has the opportunity to get us another great season at some point.

We may never lose aGAIN.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

I Think it’s pretty ironic that the guy that made a questionable coaching decision against us, that led to our greatest season, now has the opportunity to get us another great season at some point.

BOC has said a couple of times that he deserved some coaching credit for our National Championship based on that decision.

 

[thekimmer]

I'm sure all these posters crowning us as champs before a game is played won't come back to bite them.****

If it does come back to bite 'them' it would have nothing to do with posters doing anything. I am not a superstitious person.

Personally, I haven't predicted anything. My comments are only based on facts and those facts are that Brian O'Connor has assembled a deeper roster of baseball talent on a roster anytime in the last 30 years and maybe ever. It is also a fact that Brian O'Conner, despite the coaching mistake he made in Omaha, has more demonstrated success as a HC than any hire MSU has ever made in any sport. Nothing more has been accomplished yet but you have to love the buzz.

 

[thekimmer]

I Think it’s pretty ironic that the guy that made a questionable coaching decision against us, that led to our greatest season, now has the opportunity to get us another great season at some point.

True but he did make that mistake in OMAHA where he had been 4 other times and twice since then. We have barely made two regionals since then.

 

[paindonthurt]

I for one was very insistent that Lemonis deserved to be canned after the 2023 season. He instead got two more. But what would have happened if he had been let go in 2023 or 2024?

Pure speculation, but I doubt we would have gotten O'Conner or anyone like him. Selmon being a newly hired I believe we would have gone status quo and made another underwhelming hire. As painful as it was, I think hanging on to Lem a couple of years too long might have actually worked out for the best. Of course it yet to be seen as BO hasn't coached a single game, but he certainly way exceeded expectations leading up to the season.

Thoughts?

I mean if we are guaranteeing O’Connor is gonna be the best baseball coach in Mississippi state history? Then yeah we made the right call by waiting to fire him and it’s not even arguable.

we 100% don’t get Brian O’Connor if we fire Lemonis in 2023. Probably not in 2024.

 

[paindonthurt]

It's clear that keeping Lemonis longer than we should have presented an opportunity to hire Oak that wouldn't have been there before. But we should look at the two separately. We went out and made a big boy hire as we should have. But we also kept the previous guy too long and did damage to the program. You can't justify bad decisions because more often than not you won't get lucky on the back end like we did this time.

Or maybe the adults in the room looked around at what we could potentially hire at the time and said it’s better to wait. Looks like they were right.

 

[PhredPhantom]

I don’t think we will win a CWS this year. We should make a super-regional. Might even make it to Omaha. I think we make it to Omaha for sure next year. I believe we will win it all at least once while BOC is here, maybe more than once. I don’t expect our team to be embarrassing while he is here like it was with Lemonis. I could be wrong.

 

[RopeDawg]

BOC has said a couple of times that he deserved some coaching credit for our National Championship based on that decision.

What was the mistake? Putting dippin dots in to pitch?

 

[curseddawgs]

What was the mistake? Putting dippin dots in to pitch?

Not putting TA on with first base open

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

What was the mistake? Putting dippin dots in to pitch?

Bringing in Dippin Dots to pitch to TA with 2 runners on base & leading 4-2. Schoch grooved 1-0 pitch that landed somewhere in Iowa

 

[patdog]

Yes. Through blind, dumb luck it looks like it's worked out well for us. We did everything wrong and somehow wound up with a great coach.

 

[curseddawgs]

Yes. Through blind, dumb luck it looks like it's worked out well for us. We did everything wrong and somehow wound up with a great coach.

It wasn’t blind dumb luck. Selmon told the baseball people if they want a coach to get organized and find the money to get him and they did exactly that

 

[Drebin]

Or maybe the adults in the room looked around at what we could potentially hire at the time and said it’s better to wait. Looks like they were right.

If this is part of the thought process of our "adults in the room," then our adults are idiots.

A broken watch is right twice a day. It doesn't mean you've got a great watch.

 

[patdog]

It wasn’t blind dumb luck. Selmon told the baseball people if they want a coach to get organized and find the money to get him and they did exactly that

It was blind dumb luck that holding on to Lemonis at least 1 year too long, if not 2, turned out to allow us to hire such a good coach. O'Connor wasn't necessarily available when we should have fired Lemonis. The actual hire last year was a home run hire, although with his situation at Virginia it was more like a home run derby home run than an actual game home run. None of that matters now though. We've got a heck of a coach.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

I didn't think BOC would jump ship this year. Thought he'd be an idiot to give up life in Charlottesville -- with no pressure -- for life in Starkvegas with a ton of pressure.

He might of jumped in '24 or even in '23.

We can never TRULY know.

 

[thekimmer]

I don’t think we will win a CWS this year. We should make a super-regional. Might even make it to Omaha. I think we make it to Omaha for sure next year. I believe we will win it all at least once while BOC is here, maybe more than once. I don’t expect our team to be embarrassing while he is here like it was with Lemonis. I could be wrong.

That can be said most years. Winning a NC in baseball is probably as unpredictable as they come. O'Connor being a first year coach for so many players certainly doesn't help.

 

[thekimmer]

I didn't think BOC would jump ship this year. Thought he'd be an idiot to give up life in Charlottesville -- with no pressure -- for life in Starkvegas with a ton of pressure.

He might of jumped in '24 or even in '23.

We can never TRULY know.

That might be true if you are at a point where you just want to coast into retirement. But for a guy who still has that fire in his belly and wants to see if he can take the next step up at program that cares then he made the right move

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

That might be true if you are at a point where you just want to coast into retirement. But for a guy who still has that fire in his belly and wants to see if he can take the next step up at program that cares then he made the right move

Exactly. So he very well may have been willing to make that move before now - if given the opportunity. Glad we got him.

 

[ronpolk]

Not putting TA on with first base open

If i remember right, TA was the lead run? I don’t know many coaches that are going to intentionally put the lead run on base, I wouldn’t have. The mistake was allowing a sidearm right handed to pitch to great left handed hitter. That ball is way too visible for a left handed hitter, especially one of TA’s ability.

 

[DAWGSANDSAINTS]

Back to back last and next to last finishes in conference should get you fired regardless of how long the AD has been on campus. Lemon got lazy after his fire truck ride down University Dr in the parade after they won the Natty and and never recovered. He didn't get out and recruit, he barely got off that damn bucket to even argue a call. I've never been so miserable watching MSU baseball, two seasons of being the laughing stock of the conference. I suppose everything happens for a reason but those 2 seasons will never be forgotten

 

[DawgNsuds]

If i remember right, TA was the lead run? I don’t know many coaches that are going to intentionally put the lead run on base, I wouldn’t have. The mistake was allowing a sidearm right handed to pitch to great left handed hitter. That ball is way too visible for a left handed hitter, especially one of TA’s ability.

Mississippi State 8th - Dubrule walked (3-2 KKBFFBBB). Cumbest flied out
to lf (2-1 BKB). Clark homered to right field, 2 RBI (0-0); Dubrule scored.
Hatcher pinch hit for Forsythe. Messinger to p for McGarry. Hatcher singled to
shortstop (1-2 BSSF). R. Jordan doubled to left center (2-1 BKB); Hatcher
advanced to third. Schoch to p for Messinger. Allen homered to right field, 3
RBI (1-0 B); R. Jordan scored; Hatcher scored. James lined out to lf (1-0 B).
Hancock singled to center field (3-2 BBKBFF). Tanner walked (3-0 BBBB); Hancock
advanced to second. Leggett pinch ran for Hancock. Savino to p for Schoch.
Dubrule singled through the left side, RBI (0-0); Tanner advanced to second;
Leggett scored. Cumbest struck out swinging (3-2 BBFSBS). 6 runs, 6 hits, 0
errors, 2 LOB.

 

[MSUDOG24]

That can be said most years. Winning a NC in baseball is probably as unpredictable as they come. O'Connor being a first year coach for so many players certainly doesn't help.

@PhredPhantom I don’t think we will win a CWS this year. We should make a super-regional. Might even make it to Omaha. I think we make it to Omaha for sure next year. I believe we will win it all at least once while BOC is here, maybe more than once. I don’t expect our team to be embarrassing while he is here like it was with Lemonis. I could be wrong.

What's been on my optimistic mind. If JJ can do it, BOC can. Who knows and we'll see but assume most would take that over the next 4 years? Based on his history, not completely out of the question.

 

[Choctaw Dawg]

Back to back last and next to last finishes in conference should get you fired regardless of how long the AD has been on campus. Lemon got lazy after his fire truck ride down University Dr in the parade after they won the Natty and and never recovered. He didn't get out and recruit, he barely got off that damn bucket to even argue a call. I've never been so miserable watching MSU baseball, two seasons of being the laughing stock of the conference. I suppose everything happens for a reason but those 2 seasons will never be forgotten

You don't have fond memories of us trotting out Cam Tullar, Parker Stinnett, Jackson Fristoe, and Graham Yntema in those two years and knowing the end result of those decisions every single time?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

It's clear that keeping Lemonis longer than we should have presented an opportunity to hire Oak that wouldn't have been there before. But we should look at the two separately. We went out and made a big boy hire as we should have. But we also kept the previous guy too long and did damage to the program. You can't justify bad decisions because more often than not you won't get lucky on the back end like we did this time.

Agree and disagree.

Just because we eventually got Cohen who rebuilt the program, doesn’t mean we should have hired Polk back instead of Maneiri.

At the same time, you give a little longer leash to the guy who won your first title. Of course it almost backfired - glad the boosters made Salmons fire him early, or he may have gotten hot at the end of last year.

 

[eckie1]

Mississippi State 8th - Dubrule walked (3-2 KKBFFBBB). Cumbest flied out
to lf (2-1 BKB). Clark homered to right field, 2 RBI (0-0); Dubrule scored.
Hatcher pinch hit for Forsythe. Messinger to p for McGarry. Hatcher singled to
shortstop (1-2 BSSF). R. Jordan doubled to left center (2-1 BKB); Hatcher
advanced to third. Schoch to p for Messinger. Allen homered to right field, 3
RBI (1-0 B); R. Jordan scored; Hatcher scored. James lined out to lf (1-0 B).
Hancock singled to center field (3-2 BBKBFF). Tanner walked (3-0 BBBB); Hancock
advanced to second. Leggett pinch ran for Hancock. Savino to p for Schoch.
Dubrule singled through the left side, RBI (0-0); Tanner advanced to second;
Leggett scored. Cumbest struck out swinging (3-2 BBFSBS). 6 runs, 6 hits, 0
errors, 2 LOB.

One of the most amazing things I’ve ever seen in person. What a memory!

 

[paindonthurt]

If this is part of the thought process of our "adults in the room," then our adults are idiots.

A broken watch is right twice a day. It doesn't mean you've got a great watch.

Yeah it’s certainly better to fire a guy knowing you can only make a mediocre hire and have to replace that guy again in 2 years!

 

[The Peeper]

You don't have fond memories of us trotting out Cam Tullar, Parker Stinnett, Jackson Fristoe, and Graham Yntema in those two years and knowing the end result of those decisions every single time?

Don't get me started.....

 

[patdog]

That might be true if you are at a point where you just want to coast into retirement. But for a guy who still has that fire in his belly and wants to see if he can take the next step up at program that cares then he made the right move

Yeah. The whole “why would a coach leave a school with no real pressure” narrative is ridiculous talk by people who don’t have a clue. Any coach you’d want coaching your program WANTS the pressure and thrives on it. If you don’t, you may as well quit.