Digger Phelps to Calipari: ...
- Thread starter Shmuley
- Start date
The AAU circuit has bastardized college basketball.
That game last night was one of the few times I've seen a combination of both teams playing good team defense, rarely getting lost, both teams taking good care of the basketball, and both teams working for the best shot on the offensive end not settling for a poor shot. I could probably count on one hand the number of bad shots taken in that game by both teams combined. Just about every look each team got was within the offense and was the best shot available.
The whole time I kept thinking, what if my team could play this smart and unselfishly? That kind of basketball smarts by a team is becoming a lost art. Those teams both had a lot of talent too, but the reason they were in that game is because they played smart, fundamental basketball to go with that talent.
I can understand old school guys like Digger and Bobby Knight hating what college basketball has become. They take it out on Calipari, because he's the poster child for what it has become. However, I don't think you can blame Calipari. He's just a product of the system. If he wasn't working the street agents as well as he does, someone else would be doing it. You can't blame Cal for taking advantage of the system that exists. If they could fix the system at the AAU level (they can't), then guys like Calipari would disappear.
That game last night was one of the few times I've seen a combination of both teams playing good team defense, rarely getting lost, both teams taking good care of the basketball, and both teams working for the best shot on the offensive end not settling for a poor shot. I could probably count on one hand the number of bad shots taken in that game by both teams combined. Just about every look each team got was within the offense and was the best shot available.
The whole time I kept thinking, what if my team could play this smart and unselfishly? That kind of basketball smarts by a team is becoming a lost art. Those teams both had a lot of talent too, but the reason they were in that game is because they played smart, fundamental basketball to go with that talent.
I can understand old school guys like Digger and Bobby Knight hating what college basketball has become. They take it out on Calipari, because he's the poster child for what it has become. However, I don't think you can blame Calipari. He's just a product of the system. If he wasn't working the street agents as well as he does, someone else would be doing it. You can't blame Cal for taking advantage of the system that exists. If they could fix the system at the AAU level (they can't), then guys like Calipari would disappear.
It is a risky move to depend on getting a freshman class of NBA first rounders every season. I think it will bite him in the butt a few times at UK. If your freshman talent level drops even a little then suddenly you are an NIT team (ie North Carolina).
Not to mention the inevitable probation that UK will hopefully end up on.
Not to mention the inevitable probation that UK will hopefully end up on.
if the NBA took away their ridiculous age limit, but they won't. It's way easier for them to use the NCAA's as a proving ground for the hotshots that think they're ready for the big time, instead of actually evaluating talent (bleh) and taking risks (hey, it's a business) on young talent.
that it landed him the KY job. Everyone knows what you get with Calipari and I think there are plenty at KY that are more than willing to give up their integrity to get back to basketball dominance.
with David Stern on some talk show (maybe Mike and Mike) and Vitale was begging for Stern to consider changing the rule. Stern basically said you are lucky there is a one year rule.
DawgatAuburn said:
Having Myles Brand's name scribbled on the court had to drive Knight crazy. Or should I say, crazier.
Calipari's act will not wear thin unless the system changes, and UK will not end up on probation, at least they won't for any of the stuff that's really going on.
The AAU system and its street agents are the reason a guy like Calipari can exist and stay away from NCAA scrutiny. For all the things he does, what have they caught him on so far? They caught him for Marcus Camby dealing with an agent while in school, and they caught him for Derek Rose having someone else take his ACT for him.
They've never once caught him for lining the pockets of his street agents, despite the fact that Worldwide Wes has been sitting behind his bench for years now. He's flaunting it in front of the NCAA, and there is nothing they can do about it except try to see if they can get him on other, lesser charges. It's the equivalent of bringing down a drug lord for a charge of possession.
They can't get him on the real issues, and they won't at UK. They may get him for some other slip up, but it won't be big, and if they do, he'll land on his feet either at UK or somewhere else, because the system allows it. Barring a systematic change, he'll always have success. He may have some down years, like you suggest, but those won't be the norm, and it's something you'll have to live with if you're a fan of his program.
The AAU system and its street agents are the reason a guy like Calipari can exist and stay away from NCAA scrutiny. For all the things he does, what have they caught him on so far? They caught him for Marcus Camby dealing with an agent while in school, and they caught him for Derek Rose having someone else take his ACT for him.
They've never once caught him for lining the pockets of his street agents, despite the fact that Worldwide Wes has been sitting behind his bench for years now. He's flaunting it in front of the NCAA, and there is nothing they can do about it except try to see if they can get him on other, lesser charges. It's the equivalent of bringing down a drug lord for a charge of possession.
They can't get him on the real issues, and they won't at UK. They may get him for some other slip up, but it won't be big, and if they do, he'll land on his feet either at UK or somewhere else, because the system allows it. Barring a systematic change, he'll always have success. He may have some down years, like you suggest, but those won't be the norm, and it's something you'll have to live with if you're a fan of his program.
It could be fixed by punishing teams for low APR and by punish I mean really punishing them. It could be done in such a way that no one would touch a player who had no intention of staying past a year. If college is no longer an option for the 1 and done the NBA would have to find another option for that one year.
College is a privileged not a right. If they are talented and the NBA won't let them come play for a year then the NBA is punishing them. Colleges are under no obligation to give them a place to park for a year because they can't get in the NBA due to some lame one year rule. You go to college for an education not a ticket to the pros. Dear Lord I am getting old.
If colleges took away the option of playing for 1 year then the NBA would reverse their rule. As it stands the NBA has no incentive to do anything because the system is doing exactly what they want.
If colleges took away the option of playing for 1 year then the NBA would reverse their rule. As it stands the NBA has no incentive to do anything because the system is doing exactly what they want.
go after HS or wait 3 years.
I don't mind some sort of rule. There are people everywhere that could start jobs before they earn a degree, but most employers make them earn the degree before they will hire them. So that doesn't bother me.
Its just that 1 year does nothing.
I don't mind some sort of rule. There are people everywhere that could start jobs before they earn a degree, but most employers make them earn the degree before they will hire them. So that doesn't bother me.
Its just that 1 year does nothing.
what your proposal would do, whether legal or not, is hold 18 year olds hostage with nowhere to go but overseas because they are talented in an effort to sway the NBA.
I think that is really wreckless.
You go to college to try and prepare yourself for a career. For most, that's usually a job after a degree. For others, its an athletic career.
I think that is really wreckless.
You go to college to try and prepare yourself for a career. For most, that's usually a job after a degree. For others, its an athletic career.
I guess it was their party though, so the NCAA could do what they wanted. Not to speak ill of the dead, but I don't think Brand was THAT great.
They could structure their own rule to be like the baseball rule, where if you enroll in class at a 1A program, you have to stay for 3 years minimum.
The NBA can still have its age limit, but you'd force players who wanted to go pro at 19 to either go Juco, go to Europe, or something else.
And if a guy decided he did want to play college ball, he'd have to play through his junior year. The NBA has the rule, but the NCAA allows it by not having their own rule in place.
The NBA can still have its age limit, but you'd force players who wanted to go pro at 19 to either go Juco, go to Europe, or something else.
And if a guy decided he did want to play college ball, he'd have to play through his junior year. The NBA has the rule, but the NCAA allows it by not having their own rule in place.
yeah that is extreme I guess but it is just another thing that other countries laugh at us for... We let a @+!@%!% ENTERTAINMENT industry us our higher education institutions to push their entry level candidates through as a form of talent evaluation, since they proved they sucked at it. These guys have absolutely no interest in being educated and do
nothing but take up a spot that a real "student athlete" could use. I'm
completely jealous of their earnings potential but I think it is
ridiculous that we force/pay them to go to college instead of entering
the workforce when they are ready. Other countries laugh at us for this
****... and I can't disagree...
I love college sports but this **** where these guys are paid to go to college, never have to do work and leave immediately is just dumb.. it makes me want to follow only Division III basketball. It isn't Cal's fault.. he just has figured out how to work the network to his advantage..
nothing but take up a spot that a real "student athlete" could use. I'm
completely jealous of their earnings potential but I think it is
ridiculous that we force/pay them to go to college instead of entering
the workforce when they are ready. Other countries laugh at us for this
****... and I can't disagree...
I love college sports but this **** where these guys are paid to go to college, never have to do work and leave immediately is just dumb.. it makes me want to follow only Division III basketball. It isn't Cal's fault.. he just has figured out how to work the network to his advantage..
What would keep a player from leaving after a year or two andgoing to the NBA, if theNBA wants and drafts a player thenhe would be gone and what in the hell couldthe NCAAdo to stop it? MLBis a little different, it's their rule, not the NCAA that keeps the players in school.[b said:
And you wouldn't be punishing the kids that are talented. You'd be punishing the kids that signal that they are going to leave college early and the teams that take chances on them. Still not ideal, but you'd make the players that Duke and Butler recruit the most sought after recruits while Calipari type players would be fought over by teams willing to make a trade off oflost scholarshipsfor one good year.
leaving the NBA and are broke....you would think the NBA would try to rectify that through some type of rule similar to MLB....but it is probably more of a cultural problem than an educational issue
I don't agree with that statement. You go to college to get a degree in the field you want to have a career, and yes, to prepare yourself for a career but not all career paths go through college. . If I want to be a fireman I am not going to enroll in college for that, I am going to go to fire academy. There is no degree in "playing sports".8Dog said:
I can assure you if colleges didn't accept them the NBA would change its stance immediately which is what should happen. There are plenty of options the NBA could use if they had to but they don't have to because colleges aren't forcing their hand because these one-and-dones are making the NCAA a lot of money.
In the end, we all agree the one year rule is stupid, the question is how could it get changed. We know the NBA isn't going to make the first step because the rule is great for them. That leaves colleges to do something that forces the NBA's hand.
I am not sure how you would enforce any APR punishment because there is no way to stop players from leaving. All you can do is make the punishment harsh enough that coaches would shy away from players they thought might jump after a year or two. Some schools would still get burned but it would stop coaches like Cal who recruits a full team of one and done players every year knowing they aren't staying around.
ArlngtnDawg said:
That's the other problem. How could the NCAA keep these guys out? Common sense says a guy like John Wall is a one and done, but how do you know that up front, and how do you keep them out?
That's the problem. You can't really keep them out, because you can't draw a definite line on who is really wanting to play college ball and who is there warming a spot for a year while they get ready for the NBA.
That is the big issue. You can't just say, well the top 20 prospects are one and done. The top schools would be hit the hardest because they get more of the top prospects who obviously have the higher chance of jumping early. I admit I have no idea how you could enforce the APR punishment but right now the APR is a joke.RebelBruiser said:
Johnson85 said:
Yes. The NBA rule that keeps players out for a year doesnt apply to the minor league teams. Our boy Latavious Williams was drafted this year as an example.
A rule that then applies is that no NBA team can call him up this year and he is automatically entered into the NBA draft this year.
If they are drafted into the DLeague, they will make only $20K or so, but their housing is taken care of as well as food. And they get to practice as much as they want, unlike in college. They have nutritionists, get to play against competition that is WAY better than college overall, play a schedule that is almost as demanding as the NBA, and they get a year's start on the NBA game and how to succeed in it.
Also, their coaches are paid to develop them for the NBA. Thats their purpose.
I just dont get why more players dont take this route. The press isnt as much in terms of news coverage, but what is important is that NBA offices know you and scout you, and they do that PLENTY in the DLeague.
maybe I'm in the minority but I like the fact that if a guy signs with you that you don't have schools like us left holding the bag when a player jumps at the last minute (i.e., Ellis, Bender, Outlaw). And let's face it, guys from MS that see a chance at the NBA, are probably 2 or 3 more times likely to go than a lot of other places in the country. The money the NBA was throwing at totally unproven kids was beyond ridiculous and was actually hurting the NBA AND the college game because so much talent was being lost in the college game and so many unskilled players were on NBA rosters.
Yea, there are guys like Wall and Rose that are just using college basketball to move on, but for every one of those there are guys like Hopson, who thought he was going after one year, that will obviously now be a 3 or 4 year player. For us, we will now likely see Sidney in an MSU uniform, and who knows, it very well may be for more than 1 year if he doesn't turn out to be a superstar. And we wouldn't have been dealing with a lot of these amateurism issues with Sidney if his family had known that he HAD to go to college. The problem with Sidney is that the rules got changed in midstream on him. His family likely never anticipated him not being able to go straight to the NBA draft. The AAU pimps, agents and shoe companies are problems now and were even before the 1 year rule.
Yea, there are guys like Wall and Rose that are just using college basketball to move on, but for every one of those there are guys like Hopson, who thought he was going after one year, that will obviously now be a 3 or 4 year player. For us, we will now likely see Sidney in an MSU uniform, and who knows, it very well may be for more than 1 year if he doesn't turn out to be a superstar. And we wouldn't have been dealing with a lot of these amateurism issues with Sidney if his family had known that he HAD to go to college. The problem with Sidney is that the rules got changed in midstream on him. His family likely never anticipated him not being able to go straight to the NBA draft. The AAU pimps, agents and shoe companies are problems now and were even before the 1 year rule.
Beacuse the good one and done players make more $$(Bryan Hot dogs)in the NCAA than they would in the DLeague. They also get the pick of ladies at their school and national television exposure.mstateglfr said:
they get more media attention in college. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them make more money playing college than the D league.
Yes, they get more mediaattention, as i already said.alabamadog said:
Jennings sure didnt hurt for lack of stateside media.After his splash in the beginning, he was rarely reported on, exception being on pro basketball sites like DraftExpress.
Media attention doesnt get you drafted, it gets your name known by fans. Scouts andGMs get you drafted, and they are more than up on the DLeague players.
Again, playing against better competition, having unlimited practice time, playing a longer season, and learning the NBA rules and nuances is allinvaluable. And if you are good enough to thrive, you will be WAY better off.
I could seemoney under the table being an issue, sure. But only for a rare few.
Not creepy at all. Groups name stuff in memory of people all of the time. Because it surely got under Knight's skin so much makes it a pretty good idea to me.DawgatAuburn said: