disgusting
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He expected us to lose to maine because we sucked that 17ing bad and we did.
Funny how a board established on the idea that speaking the truth is not a bad thing hates the fact that a former coach spoke the truth about something he had first hand knowlege of.
Fact is we would have won that game without utterly dumbass plays like fumbling through the endzone and none of that is ever remembered.
Croom was the janitor that cleaned up the frathouse ******* and we are all pissed he didnt do it fast enough or well enough. But we have no problem assigning ALL of MULLEN's success in that first year soley to Mullen.
THis board, at times is just as dilusional as the lake because it's cool in the manner in which they do it.
Bottom line: 17 off. THe man babysat a ******** program for a few years and left his predecessor one HELL of alot better than Nutt left his.
Funny how a board established on the idea that speaking the truth is not a bad thing hates the fact that a former coach spoke the truth about something he had first hand knowlege of.
Fact is we would have won that game without utterly dumbass plays like fumbling through the endzone and none of that is ever remembered.
Croom was the janitor that cleaned up the frathouse ******* and we are all pissed he didnt do it fast enough or well enough. But we have no problem assigning ALL of MULLEN's success in that first year soley to Mullen.
THis board, at times is just as dilusional as the lake because it's cool in the manner in which they do it.
Bottom line: 17 off. THe man babysat a ******** program for a few years and left his predecessor one HELL of alot better than Nutt left his.
Balis is an unsung hero to MSU football. Under his tenure, we "look" pretty athletic overall, and seem to perform
at a good level.
I really think Croom preached discipline and hard work, but didn't enforce anything. OR, was unprepared and had a
****** S&C coach.
I may be wrong, but I think Croom was making inroads (recruiting-wise), but was still a bad overall HC.
at a good level.
I really think Croom preached discipline and hard work, but didn't enforce anything. OR, was unprepared and had a
****** S&C coach.
I may be wrong, but I think Croom was making inroads (recruiting-wise), but was still a bad overall HC.
"He expected us to lose to maine because <span style="text-decoration:underline">we sucked that 17ing bad</span> and we did"
Jerious Norwood, David Stewart, Omar Conner, Fred Reid, McKinley Scott....That group was good enough to beat Florida, but not a 6-6 Maine team? Get the 17 out of here
other facts:
1. Crooms had 3 times as many players arrested in 5 years as Jackie did in 13 years
2. Crooms fell asleep in the home of a recruit on a visit
3. Conner, Norwood, Stewart, and company couldnt have an offense in the top 100 but Tyson Lee, Anthony Dixon, and and Sherrod could get all the way to 65th in the nation?
4. We literally made a bowl game off of scoring defensive TD's...The side of the ball Crooms coached was so bad the defense actually outscored the offense a couple of times
5. The rest of the SEC thought he was a 17'ing joke
Jerious Norwood, David Stewart, Omar Conner, Fred Reid, McKinley Scott....That group was good enough to beat Florida, but not a 6-6 Maine team? Get the 17 out of here
other facts:
1. Crooms had 3 times as many players arrested in 5 years as Jackie did in 13 years
2. Crooms fell asleep in the home of a recruit on a visit
3. Conner, Norwood, Stewart, and company couldnt have an offense in the top 100 but Tyson Lee, Anthony Dixon, and and Sherrod could get all the way to 65th in the nation?
4. We literally made a bowl game off of scoring defensive TD's...The side of the ball Crooms coached was so bad the defense actually outscored the offense a couple of times
5. The rest of the SEC thought he was a 17'ing joke
How do you lose to Maine, La Tech, etc. and then in the same season beat a decent Florida team, an Alabama, etc?
If he had done like Dan and at least win the games we're supposed to and then mix in an upset or two- he would have been here for a long while.
I bet a decent coach gets us to 6-5 with our schedule that he had his first year- Tulane who he actually beat, Maine, UAB, Vandy, Kentucky who he actually beat, a 4-7 Mississippi team, and then throw in an upset of Florida- that's seven wins. Instead we get three and embarassed by losing to Maine.
I think Croom should have been a head coach somewhere else before MSU. He was not ready for the SEC and was in over his head. He may never have been ready. If he had let his OC do his thing like he did Ellis Johnson and just been the head coach, it would have probably turned out better. His loyalty to Woody is what ruined him more than anything.
If he had done like Dan and at least win the games we're supposed to and then mix in an upset or two- he would have been here for a long while.
I bet a decent coach gets us to 6-5 with our schedule that he had his first year- Tulane who he actually beat, Maine, UAB, Vandy, Kentucky who he actually beat, a 4-7 Mississippi team, and then throw in an upset of Florida- that's seven wins. Instead we get three and embarassed by losing to Maine.
I think Croom should have been a head coach somewhere else before MSU. He was not ready for the SEC and was in over his head. He may never have been ready. If he had let his OC do his thing like he did Ellis Johnson and just been the head coach, it would have probably turned out better. His loyalty to Woody is what ruined him more than anything.
And he would have been beloved and had a long tenure, even if that only got him to 6 to 7 wins generally. I really think if he could have gotten any momentum, he would have started cleaning up in recruiting. Just too good of a story and made too good of an impression listening to him talk for him to not do well there. <div>Todd4State said:
</div><div>Only question is how discipline would have been if the coordinators were trying to be hard asses and he was the fatherly figure that was easier on the players.</div><div>
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the worst Coach to ever Coach at MSU nudging out Jim Hatfield and Charlie Shira.What was it that made people think He was qualified? He played at Bama and they mentioned they were interviewing Him? he was a life-long NFL asst Coach hanger-oner.He had no clue about D1 football. He was double lazy. Did not use all of His in Home visits. Drove a golf cart, Looked 17ing stupid just standing o the sidelines with that crooked assed hat. Said stupidassed things on a regular basis.He benched good players and played players that should have been at Delta State. He ruined Omarr benched 5 star Andrews and played a guy that couldn't kick at Moor High.
Don't even mention His on field decisions. Like calling time out and then getting a delay of the game.(how many times?) He blew the Arkansas and Georgia games with the Stupidest **** ever.When we were losing to Kentucky by a couple pointswith time running out, Ky had to punt on their end. The only chance to win was block the punt , we rushed no one, caught the punt and time ran out.He played Omarr in the second half against LSU when we were behind by 30 and got Him hurt and then we preceded to lose to Vandy and UAB. I still have bad dreams about Sly. Thank God and Geyhound He is gone.
Don't even mention His on field decisions. Like calling time out and then getting a delay of the game.(how many times?) He blew the Arkansas and Georgia games with the Stupidest **** ever.When we were losing to Kentucky by a couple pointswith time running out, Ky had to punt on their end. The only chance to win was block the punt , we rushed no one, caught the punt and time ran out.He played Omarr in the second half against LSU when we were behind by 30 and got Him hurt and then we preceded to lose to Vandy and UAB. I still have bad dreams about Sly. Thank God and Geyhound He is gone.
Probation for 4 years
8 scholarships over the first 2 years
One year bowl ban
11 fewer official visits(45 from 56 allowed) per year for 2 years
All over 2 guys staying in a hotel for free, a coach paying for summer school to get a kid eligible, and "improper reimbursement" to recruits' families for hotel rooms and rental cars during their official visits...
Anotherwords, about the same penalty that Ohio St received for all the bs they pulled last year(including lying to the NCAA). For reference, South Carolina just got 3 yrs probation, 6 scholarships over 2 years, NO bowl ban, NO limit on official visits, for the SAME EXACT violations they found on us in 2003. AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN HARDLY HEAR ABOUT IT!
The NCAA spent the better part of 3 years snooping around our program(and that was all they found)...They snoop, they find AT LEAST that much @ every program in America. Nevermind the OM connection(read promiscuous relationship) with the lead investigator and all the OM-hired P.I.'s that followed Jackie every step over that time period.
8 scholarships over the first 2 years
One year bowl ban
11 fewer official visits(45 from 56 allowed) per year for 2 years
All over 2 guys staying in a hotel for free, a coach paying for summer school to get a kid eligible, and "improper reimbursement" to recruits' families for hotel rooms and rental cars during their official visits...
Anotherwords, about the same penalty that Ohio St received for all the bs they pulled last year(including lying to the NCAA). For reference, South Carolina just got 3 yrs probation, 6 scholarships over 2 years, NO bowl ban, NO limit on official visits, for the SAME EXACT violations they found on us in 2003. AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN HARDLY HEAR ABOUT IT!
The NCAA spent the better part of 3 years snooping around our program(and that was all they found)...They snoop, they find AT LEAST that much @ every program in America. Nevermind the OM connection(read promiscuous relationship) with the lead investigator and all the OM-hired P.I.'s that followed Jackie every step over that time period.
because each time we get to see the intelligence of this board insulted. Mullen has put two guys (at most) in the NFL from MSU - Chris White (heavily recruited by Croom and a strong lean to MSU, but he committed afterwards, so we give it to Mullen) and Vick Ballard. <div> Everyone else in the NFL including our top 15 draft pick this year were Croom recruits. And Coach, Fletcher Cox was going to the NFL out of high school and that ridiculous statement that none of Croom's recruits would have made it to the NFL without Mullen is just silly. Just like Orgeron's coaching and Saban's and mIles's coaching get all those awesome plearayers to the NFL too? No, doesn't happen that way.</div><div> Before we all pat ourselves on the back about Mullen and dump Croom under the bus, let's acknowledge that almost all of Mullen's starters so far have been Croom's players, and until this year, Mullen's recruiting had been way behind's Croom. In four years, Mullen is still using Croom's QB as best on campus, except his exceptional recruiting of Dylan Farve.</div>
lay eggs not only that year, but be apart of the previous three years of ******** football.
THat group and all the players from the previous 3 seasons managed to take their talent and absolutely crap it away.
Croom, a poor head coach at best, was able to get them to play a couple of games. Sherrill a good head coach couldnt take the talent <font size="6">you speak of</font> do ANYTHING.
The team was 17ing awful.
Croom was a terrible coach, but we were going to suck for the next 2-3 years no matter what. It's this distinction that Ithink you miss completely.
He recruited his first class while waiting on what others were saying was going to be major sanctions.
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THat group and all the players from the previous 3 seasons managed to take their talent and absolutely crap it away.
Croom, a poor head coach at best, was able to get them to play a couple of games. Sherrill a good head coach couldnt take the talent <font size="6">you speak of</font> do ANYTHING.
The team was 17ing awful.
Croom was a terrible coach, but we were going to suck for the next 2-3 years no matter what. It's this distinction that Ithink you miss completely.
He recruited his first class while waiting on what others were saying was going to be major sanctions.
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Wrong. Dan Mullen has had 9 players drafted in 3 years(11 in the NFL, + 3 free agent signings this year). We've average 3/yr getting drafted under Mullen. It KILLS me how people want to give Croom credit for Mullen's player development. Ask EVERY SINGLE ONE of the players that have been drafted who got them there, and they will tell you Dan Mullen and Matt Balis. That includes Jamar Chaney and Anthony Dixon, guys that were with Mullen for less than 1 year.
Croom had 5 of his players drafted in 5 years. An average of 1/yr. Using your logic, ALL FIVE of Croom's "pros" were 100% Jackie Sherrill recruits. Croom put ZERO of his own recruits in the NFL in 5 years. The 2 years that Croom had "his recruits" in place, he failed to GET A SINGLE PLAYER DRAFTED. That was THE ONLY 2-year stretch that we'd failed to have a draftee since THE FORMATION OF THE NFL. That's right. Since the 1936 season, we had NEVER failed to get a kid drafted for 2 successive years...until Sylvester Croom had all his 'croots on campus. Only 10 times in 76 years had we failed to get a player drafted, Sylvester Croom gave us 20% of those years. That rather conclusively shows that Croom was THE WORST PLAYER DEVELOPER IN THE HISTORY OF MISSISSIPPI STATE UNIVERSITY.
For reference, Jackie had 36 drafted in 12 years, the exact same average as Dan Mullen.
Really? It's ridiculous? In 5 years, Croom had ZERO recruits drafted. What was about to change? Fletcher Cox was a 238 lb DE out of highschool. He would have NEVER developed into a monster DT under Croom. How do I know? Not ONE PLAYER ever underwent such a transformation in Croom's 5 years.
So, we're now comparing Croom to 3 coaches wearing 6 national championship rings. Makes sense.
Wrong. Until this year, Mullen's recruiting had been ~ identical to Croom's, with Mullen actually addressing our needs and stockpiling talent. Croom left us destroyed on the OL depth(something that can't be fixed in a year or two). I LOVE the revisionist history suddenly exalting Croom's recruiting. Have you looked back at the classes? It was mediocre then, and it's still mediocre.
Scout/rivals rankings of each's classes:
Croom - 60/87(half Jackie), 39/33, 39/46, 27/39, 33/44, 19/25(half Mullen) = Average 40.92
Mullen - 19/25(half Croom), 38/38, 45/44, 18/30 = Average 32.125
that we had a decent coach with those same players for the previous 2 years that couldnt win 6 games is the epitomy of denial and the reason all the crying about Croom being onlythe reason we lost to teams like Maineis such ********.
I sure miss the bowls we went through under Croom due to all that awesome player development. <div>
</div><div>But But But But Croom inherited a horrible situation! Yea a Mullen walked into a team that just got their *** blasted in the Egg Bowl 40 plus points in a season where it was obvious the team was showing up just to keep the scholarship going. The sole reason that Croom won a bowl and had a winning season left for SC and the great offensive genius that was Sly Croom had a bad defense couple with his pitiful excuse for an offense.</div><div>
</div><div>Amazing that you would talk about insulting intelligence of the board and then defend Croom. Where did his offenses rank again? Where has the great recruiter and player developer land when he was booted out of Starkville? Any offers for DI jobs? </div>
</div><div>But But But But Croom inherited a horrible situation! Yea a Mullen walked into a team that just got their *** blasted in the Egg Bowl 40 plus points in a season where it was obvious the team was showing up just to keep the scholarship going. The sole reason that Croom won a bowl and had a winning season left for SC and the great offensive genius that was Sly Croom had a bad defense couple with his pitiful excuse for an offense.</div><div>
</div><div>Amazing that you would talk about insulting intelligence of the board and then defend Croom. Where did his offenses rank again? Where has the great recruiter and player developer land when he was booted out of Starkville? Any offers for DI jobs? </div>
an enormous waste of time and money. A colossal waste of time and money. How the 17 anybody can defend an SEC head coach who:
1. would not change offenses to fit the college game and banged his fist in a press conference like a spoiled childto show how emphatic he was about running his horrible, horrible offense.
2. didn't recruit a QB one year because he had Mike Henig and Tray Rutland
3. gave schollies to his buddies' kids who had no business on an SEC roster
4. didn't bother to use all his recruiting visits
5. didn't bother to use all his schollies one year
6. never broke 100 in total offense
7. said he didn't give a **** about the fanbase
8. lost to Maine. At home. Maine. With 5 NFL draft picks on his roster.
9. had use wear the ugliest 17ing uniforms known to man
10. would not fire incompetent assistants because they were his friends
11. took one look at Norwood and Connor and thought, "West Coast offense."
Should I keep going, because I damn sure can.
1. would not change offenses to fit the college game and banged his fist in a press conference like a spoiled childto show how emphatic he was about running his horrible, horrible offense.
2. didn't recruit a QB one year because he had Mike Henig and Tray Rutland
3. gave schollies to his buddies' kids who had no business on an SEC roster
4. didn't bother to use all his recruiting visits
5. didn't bother to use all his schollies one year
6. never broke 100 in total offense
7. said he didn't give a **** about the fanbase
8. lost to Maine. At home. Maine. With 5 NFL draft picks on his roster.
9. had use wear the ugliest 17ing uniforms known to man
10. would not fire incompetent assistants because they were his friends
11. took one look at Norwood and Connor and thought, "West Coast offense."
Should I keep going, because I damn sure can.
I can't imagine how bad Croom would have been dogged on here if he had run the ball at the Auburn 1 yard line on 2nd down with 10 seconds left. I love Mullen, but as much as we dog Croom, I just want to point out that that play may have been the worst play call in the history of MSU Football.
If croom was leading this years roster against this years schedule, how many games would you expect to win? I think the consensus is about 7 +\- 1 for Mullen. I'd give croom 3 +\- 1. 0-8 SEC for sure (freeze would coach circles around him). 3-1 in the OOC with a loss at troy. And that's if we could squeak past MTSU. Go back and look at our season point totals on offense during his 5 years. It's almost comical. Especially if you remember that about 25% were scored by the defense.
but let's be honest here- Saban does too. See the LSU game in Tuscaloosa where he continued to try long field goals with guys that simply couldn't do it. Coaches are human and are going to screw up from time to time. There is a margin for error for all of them.
The difference is Croom's questionable plays call far far far exceeded Dan's. And it's not even close.
And I can stand losing to Auburn or LSU by one play much better than I can losing to Tulane by one play.
The difference is Croom's questionable plays call far far far exceeded Dan's. And it's not even close.
And I can stand losing to Auburn or LSU by one play much better than I can losing to Tulane by one play.
shotgunDawg said:
I'd rather have Relf run the option if I needed a yard to score than I would have him throw the ball and fit it in a little windown
But to your other point- Mullen gets some leeway because his teams look well-coached and actually win games. When you always look unprepared and run a pee-wee offense like Crooms, you encourage more questioning of what you are trying to do
The bonehead call was not calling a pass play regardless of who's throwing it. We had time for a pass into the end zone and then, if that failed, we could have run the option play.
Mullen is a better coach than Croom, hands down. But that was a dumb call by Mullen.
Mullen is a better coach than Croom, hands down. But that was a dumb call by Mullen.
He forgot to mention the constant talk about how great a program Alabama has, and how great Bear was. Nothing I love more than our coach letting it be known that he loves one of the programs I despise the most more than the university paying him millions of dollars a year.Shmuley said:
I understand what you are saying- I do. But the play failed because our LT was a R-Freshman and wasnt ready yet- and he didnt fire off the ball. This caused our QB to be unable to cut up quicker and allowed the SS from Auburn the chance to meet him square on at the goalline.
This is my point exactly.
Croom helped mend an absolutely ****** program. Jackie WAS NOT the reason it was ******. Our entire school was. We allowed a president to not be named, we allowed an AD to hang around and not be accountable, and we didnt make our football coach from 2001 to 2003 kick kids out of school that never needed to be here.
Croom stunk as a coach no question about it. But he inherited a bowl full of stinking **** and an NCAA investigation.
Yea, we had 5-6 players willing to give it their all. But we had 83 that werent prepared to play a down the day he arrived on campus with sanctions not coming for 5 months. His bad coaching was secondary to the Maine loss which will forever be his greatest millstone.
But this boards inability to see the reason we lost to maine other than croom is the main reason I believe that MSU fans are just as !#@$+%$ stupid as the next set.
Croom helped mend an absolutely ****** program. Jackie WAS NOT the reason it was ******. Our entire school was. We allowed a president to not be named, we allowed an AD to hang around and not be accountable, and we didnt make our football coach from 2001 to 2003 kick kids out of school that never needed to be here.
Croom stunk as a coach no question about it. But he inherited a bowl full of stinking **** and an NCAA investigation.
Yea, we had 5-6 players willing to give it their all. But we had 83 that werent prepared to play a down the day he arrived on campus with sanctions not coming for 5 months. His bad coaching was secondary to the Maine loss which will forever be his greatest millstone.
But this boards inability to see the reason we lost to maine other than croom is the main reason I believe that MSU fans are just as !#@$+%$ stupid as the next set.
and I'll leave this argument alone. Seems we beat it to death. I'm just a bit defensive of Croom considering what he inherited.
he simply wasnt qualified to take the position offered to him. Hell, no coach that has been a pro asst for 20 years should be offered an SEC head coaching job.
But his staying in Green Bay instead of recruiting, losing games he shouldnt have, telling the fans they are blind, and constant stupid statements cant be defended.
We could have hired Jimbo Fisher instead of Crooms. You cant honestly say you dont think Fisher wouldnt have done a better job than Crooms had LT hired him in 2004.
But his staying in Green Bay instead of recruiting, losing games he shouldnt have, telling the fans they are blind, and constant stupid statements cant be defended.
We could have hired Jimbo Fisher instead of Crooms. You cant honestly say you dont think Fisher wouldnt have done a better job than Crooms had LT hired him in 2004.
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