disgusting

[gravedigger]

failure.

But Croom is not who I'm defending here. It's the idea that our coach was the reason for our collosal failure as a program and the condition it was in the day we played Maine

. It was our university for not getting a president during the investigation, it was our AD for not figuring out a way to block it, it was our AD for being so hell bent on hiring Croom, it was our players for not earning the scholarship, it was Jackie for not doing a better job from 2000 to 2003.

</p>

 

[FlabLoser]

On probation, he still couldn't fill all his scholarships.

 

[DAWG61]

with Croom was his defeatist/losers mentality. He had everyone believing how awful the MSU football program was and that it would take him 5-6 years to get us out of the hole. He sold losing to MSU and everyone bought it all up. It especially showed during the games. He coached not to lose. I can't stand watching that style of play. It's the old school way of controlling the clock, minimize turnovers and win in the special teams. The problem with this though was that Croom's teams were awful on offense and special teams so his strategy was pure trash. He was/is too stubborn to change and I'm very glad he is gone.

 

[drunkernhelldawg]

But you're not alone; this thread is full of it.

I especially like the idea that our players who made the pros have only their coach to thank; their talent has nothing to do with it.

I love Coach Mullen, but with a 12 game schedule, making a bowl game is not particularly impressive. Shira could probably do it.

It's not that people in this thread are making stuff up, but they are presenting the "facts" in a selective way that supports their point of view. It's a kissing cousin of making stuff up.

It basically adds up to a "Not this **** again" dejavu for me.

 

[digdawg]

So I'll just correct the last one: You said Croom's class was "half Jackie" and Mullen's first class (by far his best) was "half Croom".<div> Jackie left Croom with two recruits in December, both were two stars, absolutely nobody recruits that never contributed.</div><div> Croom left Mullen with 20 commits when he left, including a top 15 draft pick in Fletcher Cox, as well as another first round NFL pick in Johnthan Banks. </div><div> You say that Croom had no players drafted "while he was there" (because he certainly has after he left) - LOL - he was only at MSU for 5 years. Given that his first class was started from scratch in December, that means that if his players played for years, none of them COULD have been drafted while he was at MSU. So, while again the intelligence of the board is insulted, it doesn't mean Croom didn't' recruit well. Because he did. In fact, in two months that first year he was able to find an NFL player (Titus Brown) that no one else recruited.</div><div> Every player that "Dan Mullen has had drafted" - except Vick Ballard - was a Croom recruit.</div><div> Finally, if Croom was so bad at recruiting and Mullen is better, then why was Mullen's team in year 3 still dominated by Croom players in starting positions? When Croom was coach, a much higher percentage of his players were starting in year 3, because Sherrill left us with nothing. Almost every starter during mullen's "good" year (4-4 in the SEC) was a Croom recruit. His other two years have been 2-6 in the SEC - Croom' exact SEC record his last year at MSU when he got fired.</div><div>Coach 34 said himself after Croom was fired that 2-6 in the SEC should get you fired every time. for Mullen is 2-6 in the SEC for 2 out of his 3 years. Don't argue bowl games - that is just because we've made the OOC schedule so easy - what a joke. We play the easiest OOC schedule in the country.</div><div> </div>

 

[JackShephard]

Over 5 total years, 58 games, crooms teams put up 17 ppg. Mullens teams put up more total points in 3 seasons, 38 games, and has a total average of 27 ppg. Don't give me any crap about easy schedules. Croom lost to Maine, tulane, vandy, UAB, and LaTech. He couldn't beat Kentucky or the rest of the bottom of the SEC. That's so much ******** it's not even funny. Crooms teams were a joke. His recruiting, except for one class, was a joke. His attitude towards the fans and the program was a joke. He wasted 5 years of our program installing "discipline and character" all while his players stayed in more trouble than I can ever remember during any other coach's tenure. He didn't do ANYTHING that any other coach couldn't have done during that timeframe. Yes, Jackie let the program get away at the end and left us in shambles, but at least he did some good things first. At least he loved, and still loves, the fans and the university. He didn't have the audacity to act like he did us a favor by taking ten million dollars from us and putting an awful, awful, AWFUL product on the field. I actually quit watching MSU football for 2 years bc of him. Only 2 years out of 30 spent hanging on every play. 17 him. I can't think of one reason to still support him.

 

[drunkernhelldawg]

So, you actually stopped watching MSU football during our first winning season in several years because you didn't like the coach? Or which two seasons are you talking about? It sounds to me like there's some personal situation with Croom behind your words. I can see giving up on the team during his second and third year. But the Liberty Bowl year? Somethings not computing here.

 

[Sauron]

Those players committed to STATE, not Croom. If they had committed to Croom, they would have decommitted when he left. It's that simple. And if they did commit to Croom, they obviously liked Mullen more because they didn't jump ship when he was hired. That Croom is responsible for Mullen's success is stupid, and it's mindboggling that people on here are defending a man who didn't give a **** about MSU or its fans.

Fletcher Cox loved Croom so much that he had him on the podium in New York, too, didn't he? @@*@%$ stupid. Croom loved his friends more than he loved MSU football. He would rather give his cronies jobs than he would win football games.

 

[drunkernhelldawg]

This is your version of "set[ting] the record straight"? Wow.

 

[Todd4State]

Fluke or not- we beat Auburn, Bama, and Ole Miss in the same season and won a bowl game. How many years can we say that?

 

[engie]

Your "facts" are so wrong it is impossible to correct each one So I'll just correct the last one: You said Croom's class was "half Jackie" and Mullen's first class (by far his best) was "half Croom". Jackie left Croom with two recruits in December, both were two stars, absolutely nobody recruits that never contributed. Croom left Mullen with 20 commits when he left, including a top 15 draft pick in Fletcher Cox, as well as another first round NFL pick in Johnthan Banks.

Fair enough on the class of 2004. Jackie ALSO left Croom the classes of 2002 and 2003(the farthest recruiting databases go back). Those classes were ranked Scout/Rivals #17/#17 and #20/#9, which according to those services are OUR BEST TWO we've had. The fact that Croom kicked players off the team, guys transferred, etc is immaterial. He inherited plenty of talent... and only managed to get 5 of them drafted in 5 years.

So, throw out the classes of 2004 and 2009(the 'tweener classes)...
Croom average recruiting ranking - 37.5
Mullen average recruiting ranking - 35.5

You say that Croom had no players drafted "while he was there" (because he certainly has after he left) - LOL - he was only at MSU for 5 years. Given that his first class was started from scratch in December, that means that if his players played for years, none of them COULD have been drafted while he was at MSU.

So, 5 years isn't enough time to get drafted into the NFL. You are seriously going to argue that point? Or, skipping the first class(2004), 4 years. That isn't enough time? WOW. In the class of 2005, all 29 players that would've been on campus for FOUR football seasons before Croom was fired. The class of 2006 had 24 more that would've been draft eligible before he got fired. The class of 2007 had 5 that would've been draft eligible. The 2008 class had 1 draft eligible. In total, Croom had 59 of HIS recruits(2005-2008) become draft eligible on his watch. ZERO got drafted into the NFL. Counting the class of 2004, that is 82 draft-eligible(before his firing) players that Croom failed to put in the NFL. 0 for 82 ain't good.

So, while again the intelligence of the board is insulted, it doesn't mean Croom didn't' recruit well. Because he did. In fact, in two months that first year he was able to find an NFL player (Titus Brown) that no one else recruited. Every player that "Dan Mullen has had drafted" - except Vick Ballard - was a Croom recruit.

Right, I insulted the intelligence of the board, yet you claimed it's impossible to have a recruit drafted in 5 classes. Vick Ballard makes one more than Croom got drafted.

Finally, if Croom was so bad at recruiting and Mullen is better, then why was Mullen's team in year 3 still dominated by Croom players in starting positions? When Croom was coach, a much higher percentage of his players were starting in year 3, because Sherrill left us with nothing.

Sherrill left us with the 2 highest rated recruiting classes we've had since before the services tracked it. The fact that Croom decided to kick off all our 4* and 5* players was why all "his" guys were starting in year 3. Freeze has taken over a similar situation in Oxford and managed to not kick all the talent off the team.

Almost every starter during mullen's "good" year (4-4 in the SEC) was a Croom recruit. His other two years have been 2-6 in the SEC - Croom' exact SEC record his last year at MSU when he got fired.

Mullen was 3-5 in the SEC his first year. So, you got that part wrong TWICE already. Then, Mullen's 2-6 does NOT equal Croom's 2-6.

Sagarin ratings: Croom '08: 93 (bottom 25% of ALL d1 FBS).
Mullen '11: 31 (top 25% of ALL d1 FBS).

Of 66 BCS teams, Croom's was ranked 60th, or 6th worst. Mullen's was ranked 27th.
Mullen lost to 6 teams ranked in the final top 25. Croom lost to 4 unranked teams.

Clearly, you have an agenda against Mullen. The fact that your even arguing which is a superior coach, without providing a single metric in which Croom was better, shows without a doubt that you are an idiot. There are unlimited metrics out there to measure by. Mullen is better in EVERY SINGLE ONE. Show me a number, ANY NUMBER, that Croom was better at. Can you? I'll be waiting...

 

[Sauron]

team once. Clearly, he's the better coach.**

Why do some of you care if others don't like Croom?

 

[esplanade91]

So I'll just correct the last one: You said Croom's class was "half Jackie" and Mullen's first class (by far his best) was "half Croom".<div> Jackie left Croom with two recruits in December, both were two stars, absolutely nobody recruits that never contributed.</div><div> Croom left Mullen with 20 commits when he left, including a top 15 draft pick in Fletcher Cox, as well as another first round NFL pick in Johnthan Banks. </div><div> You say that Croom had no players drafted "while he was there" (because he certainly has after he left) - LOL - he was only at MSU for 5 years. Given that his first class was started from scratch in December, that means that if his players played for years, none of them COULD have been drafted while he was at MSU. So, while again the intelligence of the board is insulted, it doesn't mean Croom didn't' recruit well. Because he did. In fact, in two months that first year he was able to find an NFL player (Titus Brown) that no one else recruited.</div><div> Every player that "Dan Mullen has had drafted" - except Vick Ballard - was a Croom recruit.</div><div> Finally, if Croom was so bad at recruiting and Mullen is better, then why was Mullen's team in year 3 still dominated by Croom players in starting positions? When Croom was coach, a much higher percentage of his players were starting in year 3, because Sherrill left us with nothing. Almost every starter during mullen's "good" year (4-4 in the SEC) was a Croom recruit. His other two years have been 2-6 in the SEC - Croom' exact SEC record his last year at MSU when he got fired.</div><div>Coach 34 said himself after Croom was fired that 2-6 in the SEC should get you fired every time. for Mullen is 2-6 in the SEC for 2 out of his 3 years. Don't argue bowl games - that is just because we've made the OOC schedule so easy - what a joke. We play the easiest OOC schedule in the country.</div><div> </div>

I think Freeze is a complete moron and knows half as much about football as he pretends to know (so basically he's a lot like Croom) and he's walking into an identical situation as 2003 Jackie Sherrill.

You claim Jackie gave Croom 2 recruits, which is pretty much on par with what Nutt gave Freeze. Nutt had recruited all those same players that eventually committed to him, but Freeze put together one of the better classes in the country last year even though he's been a D1 coach for one year and is taking over possibly the worst SEC team in history.

Why does Croom get a pass? Freeze is a jackass and Ole Miss is as bad now as we ever were.

I understand Croom will always have fans, but please dont try to give him credit for making Fletcher Cox (a 4 star, not 5 star, #1 in the world) into a 300 lbs ball of pure muscle that became a 1st rounder. He would have stayed around 235lbs (consistent with all the other guys he developed) and maybe would have been a free agent after next year.

In hindsight, Banks was a no-brainer for college coaches. He just had little exposure. Every 1A coach he faced said he was the greatest athlete they'd ever seen, and he was in Croom's backyard.

 

[gasdawg]

Don't forget that we had a bad *** AD during that time that took the proper courses or whatever to be able to recruit players to MSU. People argue it was more of crooms/mullen class but forget the ninja played a big role in holding the class together during the coaching search. Mullen came in and closed it out like he needed to. All 3 deserve credit for that class. As far as coaching ... crxxm was the worst i have ever EVER seen. I think Mullen has done a great job coaching minus a few bad play calls. Mullen is 1000 times better as a college head football coach than crxxm.

 

[JackShephard]

Some fictionalized agenda just bc you can't come up with a good argument. I rooted for the man when he came on board. I went to events and spoke with him twice and talked with some of his staff from time to time. But the product he put on the field was a farce. Halfway through 2006, I saw the writing on the wall. Then I let him trick me into getting my hopes up again when he started 3-1 in 07. The loss to LaTech ripped my heart out all over again, and 3-2 lost me completely as far as croom went. That was the last croom game I ever watched.

 

[DAWG61]

I had almost forgotten about that game. We lost to Auburn 3-2. 2 17ing points is all Croom could muster. What a 17ing joke.