"Divided" Fanbase?

[WaffleShopper]

Yep, because that "ceiling" is now a LOT further away. What we just did was bat **** crazy.

You just fired a guy that had ONE losing season in his first 11 years (the COVID season), and would have qualified for the CFPs in 7 out of his first 11 years under the current CFP format. Not only that, you are spending probably up to $100 million dollars to make the change to a coach that has to qualify in 8 of 11 years instead of 7 to show any improvement over what we already have.. That's more money than our current annual media rights payout from FOX/NBC/CBS.

For every Cignetti, there's probably 10 or 20 busts. For that kind of money, I can put up with one sh!tty year. An extra $100,000,000 dollars put towards players has a FAR higher probability of getting us to the Promsed Land than a Hail Mary trying to find the next Vince Lombardi.

The only thing Kraft did right in this entire fiasco was appointing Terry Smith as interim Head Coach instead of Kotelnicki or Knowles. That MIGHT keep some of these guys from bailing ship.

It wasn’t just a sh!tty year. He quit on his team and his team quit on him. Doesn’t matter which one happened first, there’s no fixing that.

Kraft may have been considering a change after Oregon, but his hand was forced after UCLA and Northwestern. There was nothing more to think about.

Tengwall has hinted that Franklin checked out a long time ago. He just didn’t want to be in State College any more. I’m guessing the Oregon loss just crushed his remaining spirit. Kraft had to pull the plug immediately or the rest of the season could have done lasting damage to the program.

 

[KingLando]

I don’t think there are many people “kicking Coach Franklin (and Drew)” while they are down. First, Franklin has $50 million reasons to be up not down. What other job pays a fired employee $50 million to leave? Second, in terms of Drew Allar, most people have wished him a speedy recovery as they would for any injured player in sports. I feel really sorry for Drew because I believe he followed some very bad advice to stay for his senior year. It made no sense to return to a football program with one of the worst reputations for developing QBs. It cost Allar millions in potential NFL earnings and destroyed his draft status.

The issue is that those wishing Allar anything aren't sincere. You can't bash a kid continually then wish him well.

 

[WestSideLion]

Divided fanbase?! Clearly some people haven’t been on this board for long.

The fanbase has been divided since Nov 2000. At least.

 

[KingLando]

Yep, because that "ceiling" is now a LOT further away. What we just did was bat **** crazy.

You just fired a guy that had ONE losing season in his first 11 years (the COVID season), and would have qualified for the CFPs in 7 out of his first 11 years under the current CFP format. Not only that, you are spending probably up to $100 million dollars to make the change to a coach that has to qualify in 8 of 11 years instead of 7 to show any improvement over what we already have.. That's more money than our current annual media rights payout from FOX/NBC/CBS.

For every Cignetti, there's probably 10 or 20 busts. For that kind of money, I can put up with one sh!tty year. An extra $100,000,000 dollars put towards players has a FAR higher probability of getting us to the Promsed Land than a Hail Mary trying to find the next Vince Lombardi.

The only thing Kraft did right in this entire fiasco was appointing Terry Smith as interim Head Coach instead of Kotelnicki or Knowles. That MIGHT keep some of these guys from bailing ship.

How would anyone have a losing season with our schedule?

 

[WaffleShopper]

Divided fanbase?! Clearly some people haven’t been on this board for long.

The fanbase has been divided since Nov 2000. At least.

Disagreements don’t necessarily mean divided. A handful of angry tough guys here just make it seem that way.

 

[ApexLion]

That's the elephant in the room and Kraft commented on uniting the nation. All PSU has to do is appropriately recognize the Paterno's for their contribution to Penn State and do it while Sue is still around... those other check books will open up. UnCancel JoePa!

I actually think you have a point.
Another data point for Ruhle.

 

[Catch1lion]

When the press now says there is a divided fanbase, what are they referring to? My understanding is that everyone thought it was time for Franklin to go. I was a holdout until after the UCLA game but I think the final holdouts were all converted after Northwestern. Is the press still referring to old JoePa stuff, are they misreading the room or am I missing something?

The press is all about click bait. First they push the narrative that JF should get fired, but Kraft doesn't have the balls. Second, they state how could they fire JF with all that he has acccomplished. Now, they are harping on a divided fan base.
I would guess that the majority thought it was time for a change, but the way it happened was unfortunate.
Example 1:

 

[Catch1lion]

Divided fanbase?! Clearly some people haven’t been on this board for long.

The fanbase has been divided since Nov 2000. At least.

Tribalism is a real thing.

 

[Big_O]

There has been a divided fanbase on this board since I joined it in 1995. That was 30 years ago.

 

[Headlock]

Kraft assessed the situation well and acted in the best interest of the University. Divisions that exist are about means and methods which will always be ripe for criticism. A new coach who rallies the players and wins games will provide relief and cause the division to abate!

 

[BUFFALO LION]

Do you think Penn State was going to win a national championship with James Franklin? I don’t.

That’s the only consideration I have. I don’t believe any team ever willl with him because it demands winning, not just one, but multiple games in a short stretch that he just couldn’t win. It’s not personal. Last year was gift wrapped, gift wrapped isn’t strong enough. Got the weakest entrant round 1 at home, then Boise, then the big boys started in Final 4. Guess what, shocker, he lost. Because that’s what he does.

Next guy might go 7-5 for three years. Ok, then move on. The money is there, folks. We spend all this time worrying about money, it’s not ours and the school will spend it somewhere anyways. But we were Iowa with a bigger stadium under James. No thanks. We’re like abused puppies around here and should start demanding Ohio State wins every few years minimum and actually scaring good teams on offense instead of whatever it was we’ve been seeing.

Plus, he would have made 5 playoffs in his tenure, not 7. Only 3 of the last 6.

We would have made it in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2022, 2023, and 2024. By my count that’s 7, not 5. The College Football Playoff Committee rankings are the ones that count, not the AP.

And if you are OK with probable 7-5 seasons into eternity (if we’re lucky), for the unnecessary probable cost of over our combined annual media payout from FOX, NBC, and CBS, then I guess financial wizards like you have made the right decision. We’re not just paying Franklin an unnecessary $50 million dollars to leave, we’re going to have to spend probably at least another $50 million to replace him with anyone close to being as good as he was.

 

[Psumatt85]

Then let’s go all the way. Raise the prices. Find the dumbest best players. Pony up Lions Nation. It’s all about winning. Strippers not cheerleaders. Let’s get that casino going! Cmon now people! It’s all about winning. We are…the Miami of the North!

I think this is the reality of minor league football played on college campuses now. It is what it is. I don’t know if or why there would be academic requirements anymore.

 

[donaldfair71]

We would have made it in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2022, 2023, and 2024. By my count that’s 7, not 5. The College Football Playoff Committee rankings are the ones that count, not the AP.

And if you are OK with probable 7-5 seasons into eternity (if we’re lucky), for the unnecessary probable cost of over our combined annual media payout from FOX, NBC, and CBS, then I guess financial wizards like you have made the right decision. We’re not just paying Franklin an unnecessary $50 million dollars to leave, we’re going to have to spend probably at least another $50 million to replace him with anyone close to being as good as he was.

I will allow for 6. We weren't getting in in 2018.

I don't understand the worry about money. Franklin is almost certainly going to get hired, offsetting some/most/all of the payout. When that happens, will you chime back in and offer a mea culpa? Because it will happen, maybe not in one year, but certainly after 1 or 2.

Why do you believe we have probable 7-5 seasons? What makes you think this? Only 12 years ago PSU won 7 then 8 in back to back seasons with 40 scholarships. If we do have a few 7 win seasons, as the new coach won't have the length that Franklin had in his deal, move on. If I am wrong, and the next guy gets 10 years basically fully guaranteed, I will chime in with my own mea culpa.

Again, there is this clinging to a decent man that was just an average football coach that I will never understand. That he was offered a clown contract once by a terrible AD doesn't change that at all. But those costs are gone, now you get to decide if you want to lose to Ohio State another 8 straight times or have a chance. Or maybe you have a functional offense the next time you visit Ann Arbor. But keeping him around all but guaranteed you weren't having either.

 

[ApexLion]

I think this is the reality of minor league football played on college campuses now. It is what it is. I don’t know if or why there would be academic requirements anymore.

I agree. Let's go whole hog if that's what the majority wants! Get that swagger, run it like a pro team, tradition be damned. I mean why are we going halfway with Franklin and talking about coaches with integrity? I'm not kidding. If we want a national championship so bad, cheat, steal, corrupt your way to the top. The ring is what matters, right?

 

[PSUFTG]

The vast majority of fans care about one thing and one thing only - Winning Games.
Period. All the rest, for most folks, is BS.

It should therefore surprise no one when that the same mentality permeates among the "powers-that-be".

I think that is very sad, but "not my monkeys, not my circus" applies here.

 

[Catch1lion]

I think this is the reality of minor league football played on college campuses now. It is what it is. I don’t know if or why there would be academic requirements anymore.

Last couple of days , someone posted when was the last time a player was academically ineligible? They didn’t come to play school .

 

[Pennst8]

When the press now says there is a divided fanbase, what are they referring to? My understanding is that everyone thought it was time for Franklin to go. I was a holdout until after the UCLA game but I think the final holdouts were all converted after Northwestern. Is the press still referring to old JoePa stuff, are they misreading the room or am I missing something?

It's sports media. A talk show host will say - "Notre Dame is overrated" because he knows the calls and clicks will come. the same media that said Franklin is a choke and not worth the money, are the same ones now that will say Penn State did the wrong thing and the fan base is divided. it's because the masses gobble it up.

 

[Bvillebaron]

I was a holdout for a long time as well. I have no inside knowledge, but believe something else was going on behind the scenes that took away any benefit of the doubt that might have been given that would have enabled the decision to be made after the regular season. This wasn't a knee-jerk, nor do I believe it was a Sunday afternoon decision. As I said before, when this kind of move is made, with the reasons given for the move, it makes me hopeful (I think) that the next coach is a done deal and is just waiting until mid to late November to be announced.

Well after Kraft said Franklin was fired because coaches are held to a higher standard at Penn State which means Big Ten and National Championships, his hire damn well better be a home run. Unfortunately, I think he is going to hire his old buddy and Franklin lite—Matt Rhule.

 

[Moogy]

That's the elephant in the room and Kraft commented on uniting the nation. All PSU has to do is appropriately recognize the Paterno's for their contribution to Penn State and do it while Sue is still around... those other check books will open up. UnCancel JoePa!

The checkbooks of normal, successful people will close.

Maybe you guys can arrange for Sandusky, shackled and surrounded by law enforcement officers, to be honored at midfield at halftime of a game for his starring role in PSU's 2 Nattys, while you're at it.

It's time to move forward. You guys can go root for another university, or just stop rooting altogether. Just stop dragging up this nonsense. You've already made 2 good coaches feel unwelcome here ... take your toxicity elsewhere.

 

[Bvillebaron]

I can't believe there are so called fans of our program that feel Franklin was mistreated or deserved better or whatever horse crap that Marshall guy was whining about.

This was a very simple decision and it was made decisively. Absolutely the right move, 100%! The guy lost the team and had the two worst losses in CFB history considering we were 20 plus point favorites. On top of that the program was a laughing stock because we could not win a game vs top 5 or top 10 teams if their lives depended on it. This firing was a long time coming and is completely justified. As for the booing, fans have every right to boo him off the field. He deserved it. This is a results business and Franklin did not deliver so don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I get the Franklin firing but saying he should not let the door hit him on the way out is uncalled for and bush league.

 

[Bvillebaron]

Do you think Penn State was going to win a national championship with James Franklin? I don’t.

That’s the only consideration I have. I don’t believe any team ever willl with him because it demands winning, not just one, but multiple games in a short stretch that he just couldn’t win. It’s not personal. Last year was gift wrapped, gift wrapped isn’t strong enough. Got the weakest entrant round 1 at home, then Boise, then the big boys started in Final 4. Guess what, shocker, he lost. Because that’s what he does.

Next guy might go 7-5 for three years. Ok, then move on. The money is there, folks. We spend all this time worrying about money, it’s not ours and the school will spend it somewhere anyways. But we were Iowa with a bigger stadium under James. No thanks. We’re like abused puppies around here and should start demanding Ohio State wins every few years minimum and actually scaring good teams on offense instead of whatever it was we’ve been seeing.

Plus, he would have made 5 playoffs in his tenure, not 7. Only 3 of the last 6.

Oh no not so fast my friend. After Kraft said Franklin was fired because coaches are held to a higher standard at Penn State which is winning Big Ten and National Championships, no honeymoon for him His FIRST hire damn well better be a home run or he should be shown the door based on his own standard.

 

[donaldfair71]

Oh no not so fast my friend. After Kraft said Franklin was fired because coaches are held to a higher standard at Penn State which is winning Big Ten and National Championships, no honeymoon for him His FIRST hire damn well better be a home run or he should be shown the door based on his own standard.

Ehh not in my opinion.

People believe the standard at Ohio State is national titles, and at LSU, and at Alabama, etc. But reasonable people understand it is not every year, and can't happen every year.

The problem with Franklin is that it became clear it would not happen any year.

 

[Bvillebaron]

It wasn’t just a sh!tty year. He quit on his team and his team quit on him. Doesn’t matter which one happened first, there’s no fixing that.

Kraft may have been considering a change after Oregon, but his hand was forced after UCLA and Northwestern. There was nothing more to think about.

Tengwall has hinted that Franklin checked out a long time ago. He just didn’t want to be in State College any more. I’m guessing the Oregon loss just crushed his remaining spirit. Kraft had to pull the plug immediately or the rest of the season could have done lasting damage to the program.

What a crock of BS. Look he’s gone and let’s hope the next coach does better but to claim Franklin quit on his team is absolute garbage.

 

[Bvillebaron]

Ehh not in my opinion.

People believe the standard at Ohio State is national titles, and at LSU, and at Alabama, etc. But reasonable people understand it is not every year, and can't happen every year.

The problem with Franklin is that it became clear it would not happen any year.

So what year does it happen with the next coach or the one after that Nostradamus.

 

[donaldfair71]

So what year does it happen with the next coach or the one after that Nostradamus.

Don't know. Know it didn't with the last one. Don't need to be Nostradamus to see that.

I'll ask you, Nostradamus, when would Franklin's title come if we kept him?

 

[ApexLion]

The checkbooks of normal, successful people will close.

Maybe you guys can arrange for Sandusky, shackled and surrounded by law enforcement officers, to be honored at midfield at halftime of a game for his starring role in PSU's 2 Nattys, while you're at it.

It's time to move forward. You guys can go root for another university, or just stop rooting altogether. Just stop dragging up this nonsense. You've already made 2 good coaches feel unwelcome here ... take your toxicity elsewhere.

I don't know if your opinion is the majority. I really don't. Kraft has to assess this issue with this hire. Would Ruhle open checkbooks? I think the poster you responded to has a point - unite was a key word in there from Kraft's presser. What was he referring to? I don't think Franklin was fully supported in terms of $$$. I think NIL was a slog, big donor activity was a slog, and the results then solidified it for Kraft. Why was it slog for a such a modern, high-energy, Black coach? I don't have the answers other than a very traditional fanbase rejected paying for players with their, yes, checkbooks in comparison to the elite competition. So you can trot out Sandusky and be snarky or whatever but the fact remains why are here and what is Kraft thinking in both the firing and the future hiring? Reject the people who built this program but remember, no bucks, no Buck Rogers (its Yeager's anniversary of Mach 1 today, great day imho) at Penn State. No championships without $$$ and for many no checkbook without addressing previous issues.

 

[Lion84]

Kraft made his bed and now he has to put up. I was done with Franklin after NW. Supported him until then but sitting in the stands watching that game was painful and the talent alone for PSU should have carried us to a W. If Kraft doesn't hire someone to get the fan base back on board good luck with those $14K seat licenses and $450 per seat sales after that. and Rhule isn't that guy.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

I will allow for 6. We weren't getting in in 2018.

I don't understand the worry about money. Franklin is almost certainly going to get hired, offsetting some/most/all of the payout. When that happens, will you chime back in and offer a mea culpa? Because it will happen, maybe not in one year, but certainly after 1 or 2.

Why do you believe we have probable 7-5 seasons? What makes you think this? Only 12 years ago PSU won 7 then 8 in back to back seasons with 40 scholarships. If we do have a few 7 win seasons, as the new coach won't have the length that Franklin had in his deal, move on. If I am wrong, and the next guy gets 10 years basically fully guaranteed, I will chime in with my own mea culpa.

Again, there is this clinging to a decent man that was just an average football coach that I will never understand. That he was offered a clown contract once by a terrible AD doesn't change that at all. But those costs are gone, now you get to decide if you want to lose to Ohio State another 8 straight times or have a chance. Or maybe you have a functional offense the next time you visit Ann Arbor. But keeping him around all but guaranteed you weren't having either.

Nope. 2018, we would have been the last team in at number 12. UCF was number 8 which would have satisfied the then “Group of Five” requirement. So he would have made it with a chance to play for a National Championship SEVEN OUT OF HIS FIRST ELEVEN YEARS.

Who the heck are we going to get to match anything like that for less than another $50 million dollars?? We will be in a bidding war for anyone close to Franklin’s caliber. And based on Kraft’s win at all costs Presser, he subliminally gave me the impression that any Coach that comes in better be willing to bend the rules and cheat to get there. Who the crap would ever want to work for that a$$hole??

 

[donaldfair71]

Nope. 2018, we would have been the last team in at number 12. UCF was number 8 which would have satisfied the then “Group of Five” requirement. So he would have made it with a chance to play for a National Championship SEVEN OUT OF HIS FIRST ELEVEN YEARS.

Who the heck are we going to get to match anything like that for less than another $50 million dollars?? We will be in a bidding war for anyone close to Franklin’s caliber. And based on Kraft’s win at all costs Presser, he subliminally gave me the impression that any Coach that comes in better be willing to bend the rules and cheat to get there. Who the crap would ever want to work for that a$$hole??

If the new coach gets to a title game in the 1st 11 years, does this match or exceed Franklin?

Or if the new coach gets to 2 Final 4s, does this exceed?

Also, do you believe James Franklin was going to eventually win a national title at Penn State?

 

[Erial_Lion]

And based on Kraft’s win at all costs Presser, he subliminally gave me the impression that any Coach that comes in better be willing to bend the rules and cheat to get there. Who the crap would ever want to work for that a$$hole??

Exactly. When I played the press conference backwards, I'm pretty sure I heard him say "we need you Connor Stallions".

 

[Bvillebaron]

Don't know. Know it didn't with the last one. Don't need to be Nostradamus to see that.

I'll ask you, Nostradamus, when would Franklin's title come if we kept him?

His Big Ten title came in 2016 his third year of coaching and after dealing with the worst two years of the sanctions his first two years and before the transfer portal, NIL money and the facilities upgrades he campaigned for. Since he was fired because he wasn’t winning Big Ten and National Championships and the next coach will have all of those advantages Franklin didn’t have then, winning the Big Ten at least in year two and playing for a Natty by year five should be a piece of cake.

 

[Bvillebaron]

Kraft made his bed and now he has to put up. I was done with Franklin after NW. Supported him until then but sitting in the stands watching that game was painful and the talent alone for PSU should have carried us to a W. If Kraft doesn't hire someone to get the fan base back on board good luck with those $14K seat licenses and $450 per seat sales after that. and Rhule isn't that guy.

 

[MacNit]

I honestly don’t think we ever are going to win another NC in football. Do I hope we do? Absolutely. Hope we win a bunch of them.
CFB is changing rapidly and will continue to do so. Not sure the changing landscape is in our favor.

Why not?

 

[BUFFALO LION]

If the new coach gets to a title game in the 1st 11 years, does this match or exceed Franklin?

Or if the new coach gets to 2 Final 4s, does this exceed?

Also, do you believe James Franklin was going to eventually win a national title at Penn State?

How do you know Franklin wouldn’t have already gotten us to ”a title game” in one of those seven years he would have qualified for the Playoffs? Heck, we were basically one play away from making it last freakin year!

Should Ohio State have fired Day last year after he lost to Michigan again for the millionth time and had two losses? Should Notre Dame have fired Freeman last year after he inexplicably lost to Northern Illinois??? Heck, both of those teams ended up playing for the National Championship!

Franklin had built up enough street cred to be allowed a chance to fix the problems like Joe was. For a MINIMUM of $50,000,000 dollars, Kraft better get us to AT LEAST the Playoffs in the next two years. I’ve already now written off this year and next. But the year after, WHOEVER Kraft hires better have us there.

 

[MacNit]

That's the elephant in the room and Kraft commented on uniting the nation. All PSU has to do is appropriately recognize the Paterno's for their contribution to Penn State and do it while Sue is still around... those other check books will open up. UnCancel JoePa!

This…been waiting for a long time. It is a disgrace…far worse than idiots who yell vulgarities at Franklin.

This board, the football program - heck the university would not exist. (At this level) without Joe. It’s really that simple!

 

[MacNit]

It wasn’t just a sh!tty year. He quit on his team and his team quit on him. Doesn’t matter which one happened first, there’s no fixing that.

Kraft may have been considering a change after Oregon, but his hand was forced after UCLA and Northwestern. There was nothing more to think about.

Tengwall has hinted that Franklin checked out a long time ago. He just didn’t want to be in State College any more. I’m guessing the Oregon loss just crushed his remaining spirit. Kraft had to pull the plug immediately or the rest of the season could have done lasting damage to the program.

Tengwall is great to tell us things after they occurred.

 

[MacNit]

We would have made it in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2022, 2023, and 2024. By my count that’s 7, not 5. The College Football Playoff Committee rankings are the ones that count, not the AP.

And if you are OK with probable 7-5 seasons into eternity (if we’re lucky), for the unnecessary probable cost of over our combined annual media payout from FOX, NBC, and CBS, then I guess financial wizards like you have made the right decision. We’re not just paying Franklin an unnecessary $50 million dollars to leave, we’re going to have to spend probably at least another $50 million to replace him with anyone close to being as good as he was.

Good with 7-5 first next 5 years if that is what it takes.

 

[MacNit]

I agree. Let's go whole hog if that's what the majority wants! Get that swagger, run it like a pro team, tradition be damned. I mean why are we going halfway with Franklin and talking about coaches with integrity? I'm not kidding. If we want a national championship so bad, cheat, steal, corrupt your way to the top. The ring is what matters, right?

Give us Urban.

 

[donaldfair71]

How do you know Franklin wouldn’t have already gotten us to ”a title game” in one of those seven years he would have qualified for the Playoffs? Heck, we were basically one play away from making it last freakin year!

Should Ohio State have fired Day last year after he lost to Michigan again for the millionth time and had two losses? Should Notre Dame have fired Freeman last year after he inexplicably lost to Northern Illinois??? Heck, both of those teams ended up playing for the National Championship!

Franklin had built up enough street cred to be allowed a chance to fix the problems like Joe was. For a MINIMUM of $50,000,000 dollars, Kraft better get us to AT LEAST the Playoffs in the next two years. I’ve already now written off this year and next. But the year after, WHOEVER Kraft hires better have us there.

Ok, fair enough. You like the results and think we were on a good path. I disagree, respectfully.

 

[MacNit]

Well after Kraft said Franklin was fired because coaches are held to a higher standard at Penn State which means Big Ten and National Championships, his hire damn well better be a home run. Unfortunately, I think he is going to hire his old buddy and Franklin lite—Matt Rhule.

Time will tell…Will Matt get 11 years to get it right?