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"Divided" Fanbase?

ApexLion

ApexLion

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MacNit said:
Why not?
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Have felt the same for the last 10 years. I thought our only chance was to grind it out like Michigan with a slew of experienced kids. Win but nothing flashy and get lucky. Turns out Michigan cheated to get theirs. Not sure that was happening here so no, I don't think its possible unless the next hire raises a ton of $$$ to buy talent as Kraft concluded. Otherwise, its limbo and hope for some luck.
 
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donaldfair71

All-Conference
Jul 4, 2005
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Bvillebaron said:
His Big Ten title came in 2016 his third year of coaching and after dealing with the worst two years of the sanctions his first two years and before the transfer portal, NIL money and the facilities upgrades he campaigned for. Since he was fired because he wasn’t winning Big Ten and National Championships and the next coach will have all of those advantages Franklin didn’t have then, winning the Big Ten at least in year two and playing for a Natty by year five should be a piece of cake.
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You believe we were on a trajectory do these things under Franklin. I disagree. We can move on from that.
 
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BUFFALO LION

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MacNit said:
This…been waiting for a long time. It is a disgrace…far worse than idiots who yell vulgarities at Franklin.

This board, the football program - heck the university would not exist. (At this level) without Joe. It’s really that simple!
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Man…..you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO right. That was truly Camelot. We were the most respected University on the Planet. Joe gave us the foundation to be fortunate enough to be where we are today.
 
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Bvillebaron

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donaldfair71 said:
You believe we were on a trajectory do these things under Franklin. I disagree. We can move on from that.
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Well Kraft has and he set the standard for the next coach. Don’t get me wrong; I hope Kraft signs someone who will win Big Ten Titles, make the playoffs every year and a Natty in short order, but we shall see. As another poster said, the team was one play away from going to the National Championship game last year v
 
Connorpozlee

Connorpozlee

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Bvillebaron said:
What a crock of BS. Look he’s gone and let’s hope the next coach does better but to claim Franklin quit on his team is absolute garbage.
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I don’t know that I would say that he quit on the team, but something was definitely up with him this year. Bizarre just far off kilter the team has been this year.
 
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Bvillebaron

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donaldfair71 said:
Ehh not in my opinion.

People believe the standard at Ohio State is national titles, and at LSU, and at Alabama, etc. But reasonable people understand it is not every year, and can't happen every year.

The problem with Franklin is that it became clear it would not happen any year.
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One play away from playing for the National Championship last year. One thing for damn sure, Kraft guaranteed it won’t ever happen under Franklin by firing him.
 
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Bvillebaron

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MacNit said:
Time will tell…Will Matt get 11 years to get it right?
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Does Rhule get fired if he doesn’t at least win the Big by year three is the real operative question. Given the portal, NIL money, stadium and facilities Franklin campaigned for and Kraft’s new standard, why the hell should he?
 
laKavosiey-st lion

laKavosiey-st lion

Heisman
Sep 10, 2013
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ApexLion said:
I agree. Let's go whole hog if that's what the majority wants! Get that swagger, run it like a pro team, tradition be damned. I mean why are we going halfway with Franklin and talking about coaches with integrity? I'm not kidding. If we want a national championship so bad, cheat, steal, corrupt your way to the top. The ring is what matters, right?
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Did Day cheat steal and corrupt?
 
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ApexLion

ApexLion

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laKavosiey-st lion said:
Did Day cheat steal and corrupt?
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You ever visit their athletic department? I did in the 90s. It was better than the Browns facility. They invented remote "learning" and "virtual" classes. The only reason anyone found out about Clarett was due to his asking price going up halfway thru his sophomore year.

Short answer. Day benefits from those who came before him and set their system up. Now Its Legal at OSU.
 
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JWB389

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You’re never going to get 100% agreement. Most fans fall into the same category. It needed to happen. Sooner or later you need to fill those expensive seats on the West side.
 
laKavosiey-st lion

laKavosiey-st lion

Heisman
Sep 10, 2013
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ApexLion said:
You ever visit their athletic department? I did in the 90s. It was better than the Browns facility. They invented remote "learning" and "virtual" classes. The only reason anyone found out about Clarett was due to his asking price going up halfway thru his sophomore year.

Short answer. Day benefits from those who came before him and set their system up. Now Its Legal at OSU.
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Wut? He cheat of not,
 
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BUFFALO LION

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JoeBot409 said:
Doesn't mean it is not true. Him and Sandy both DEI hires.
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Maybe Sandy was, but CERTAINLY not James. We were darn lucky to get him. In fact, we were all happy as we could be! We'd be blessed to get anyone close to his abilities and accomplishments over a sustained period of time.

This post has to be some kind of ignorant troll or bad joke.
 
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PSUSignore

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The fanbase has been divided for years... topic view vs. thread view. Perhaps one day we can settle our differences and move the program forward, together.
 
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donaldfair71

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Nitt1300 said:
Beau's game losing int on Saturday didn't show me much.
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Can’t agree with this more, and I know this sounds cliche and Hallmark Movie but it’s true: Franklin’s loyalty was his downfall.

There’s no reason the team went into 2022 games with Ohio State and Michigan, 2023 games with Ohio State and Michigan, last year’s run, with what they had at QB. That 23 defense especially, but last year too to a lesser extent, was good enough to win it all. But he just couldn’t get past the QBs in the room.
We’re not talking just merely bad. Allar in 23 was borderline unplayable in those games, while Clifford was just too much a turnover machine against Ohio State in 22
 
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PSUForever

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BUFFALO LION said:
And that’s worth over $50,000,000 dollars to you? Thank goodness you’re not my accountant.
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You need to understand the contract. If and when Franklin gets another gig PSU only pays the difference between the two salaries. If his new job pays $6 million then we pay the difference. Plus sources have said Adidas is paying at least part of this buyout.

I am amazed at the people that believe our next hire will be worse and the program is doomed. That is just operating out of fear not confidence. Do you approach your life this way, afraid to make bold decisions? Franklin operated out of fear and his teams played scared in big games in the clutch. Finally he was fired for these horrible results. We never won a big game but incredibly we can't do better? Completely illogical.
 
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Moogy

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PSUForever said:
You need to understand the contract. If and when Franklin gets another gig PSU only pays the difference between the two salaries. If his new job pays $6 million then we pay the difference. Plus sources have said Adidas is paying at least part of this buyout.
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YOU need to understand the contract. The buyout is due in full [timing of payment(s) as dictated in the contract's specific terms]. There is no duty to mitigate attached to a buyout. A buyout is negotiated, in large part, to avoid the messiness that comes with a firing and a potential wrongful termination suit wherein the aggrieved former employee sues for monies due under the remainder of the deal ... and wherein, the duty to mitigate would come into play.

And there's been zero substantiation of any rumors of Adidas having anything to do with any of this.
 
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Moogy

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PSUForever said:
I am amazed at the people that believe our next hire will be worse and the program is doomed. That is just operating out of fear not confidence. Do you approach your life this way, afraid to make bold decisions?
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I operate out of superior knowledge and analytical abilities. When I make a bold move, I do so "knowing" that I'm going to be better off. I don't "risk" much of anything. Only an idiot would gamble like that. "Well, it can't be worse" has been said by many, many people who ended up in worse situations.

Here, the calculus is out of our hands. Kraft & Co. may have a great alternative set up. Or they may not. Things may work out. Or they may not. All we can do is look at what we "know" from the outside and speculate. We know we, overall, had a very good thing (that definitely hit a rough spot). We may end up with a better thing. Or we very well may not. Since the information is not known by us, and we are not making the decision, it's natural for a thinking person to be cautious in celebrating the unknown.
 
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Moogy

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Bkmtnittany1 said:
At the gym today… a moron makes the statement… “ I just hope that they hire the right color”… I got out before I got myself in trouble!
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Well, that's no fun. I would have responded "Well, if we're playing that game ... judging by your commentary, it needs to be a 'color' different from your own, you ignorant piece of ****."

I don't let stuff slide.
 
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Bkmtnittany1

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Moogy said:
Well, that's no fun. I would have responded "Well, if we're playing that game ... judging by your commentary, it needs to be a 'color' different from your own, you ignorant piece of ****."

I don't let stuff slide.
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In my youth! No worries… I will call him an ******* soon enough
 
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BUFFALO LION

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983
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PSUForever said:
You need to understand the contract. If and when Franklin gets another gig PSU only pays the difference between the two salaries. If his new job pays $6 million then we pay the difference. Plus sources have said Adidas is paying at least part of this buyout.

I am amazed at the people that believe our next hire will be worse and the program is doomed. That is just operating out of fear not confidence. Do you approach your life this way, afraid to make bold decisions? Franklin operated out of fear and his teams played scared in big games in the clutch. Finally he was fired for these horrible results. We never won a big game but incredibly we can't do better? Completely illogical.
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Actually, the fine print of "the contract" has yet to be disclosed as far as I know. No one seems to be able to verify your claim as of yet. Do you have a link to the details? No one else seems to last I heard. And there's no guarantee he won't just move to the broadcast booth and leave us with the full bill.

And whether the difference is paid or not, we still have to invest an ADDITIONAL $50,000,000 dollars or more to get anyone remotely close to the level of what James was/is. The guy would have qualified for the CFPs seven out of his first eleven years under the current format. You have anyone out there who can guarantee us that for the money we'll be spending? I'd MUCH rather spend $100,000,000 dollars on actual football players than wasting it on a pie in the sky, Hail Mary, high risk imaginary Super Coach.
 
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PSUForever

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Moogy said:
I operate out of superior knowledge and analytical abilities. When I make a bold move, I do so "knowing" that I'm going to be better off. I don't "risk" much of anything. Only an idiot would gamble like that. "Well, it can't be worse" has been said by many, many people who ended up in worse situations.

Here, the calculus is out of our hands. Kraft & Co. may have a great alternative set up. Or they may not. Things may work out. Or they may not. All we can do is look at what we "know" from the outside and speculate. We know we, overall, had a very good thing (that definitely hit a rough spot). We may end up with a better thing. Or we very well may not. Since the information is not known by us, and we are not making the decision, it's natural for a thinking person to be cautious in celebrating the unknown.
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We didn't have a very good thing. So you are not operating from facts. You are operating from a risk adverse timid, afraid to lose (so you will lose) standpoint.

Here is the assessment:

Our objective is to win national championships so you align your strategies and tactics against this overarching objective.

Situation Assessment
Your current coach is 4-21 vs top ten teams and 1-18 versus top 5 teams. This means your current coach can't beat teams of equal or slightly better talent. Can't win big games.

Your current coach just lost two games in a row where he was a 20 plus point favorite. This has never been done before.

Your current coach lost the team as evidenced by their lack of effort and heart in the last two games.

Your current coach lost the support of the fan base and donors.

A reasonable person would evaluate this situation and conclude that a change needs to be made to the head coaching position in order to position Penn State to achieve its objective of winning national championships.

Risk Mitigation Plans
Conduct a thorough coaching search with clear metrics on what you are looking for. Vett candidates against these metrics such as confidence they can develop mentally tough teams that can execute in the clutch. Something Franklin's teams failed miserably at.

There is risk, of course there is risk. You make it seem like it is a certainty that we have made the wrong decision and we will spiral into decades of irrelevance. I disagree.
 
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Achowalogan

Achowalogan

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Dec 12, 2014
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BUFFALO LION said:
Our "Homecoming Game " was a freakin disgrace wrt the crowd. Northwestern might as well have been playing in Evanston.

Every time we booed another Allar incompletion, it just motivated their players more. To the point to where the first place the whole Northwestern team ran to after the game was to our student section to thank them.

That bull **** crowd with all their boos and "FIRE FRANKLIN" chants probably cost us at least those two extra points we needed to beat Northwestern. Anyone that thinks that crap motivated OUR players to play harder is nuts.
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Don’t like the booing and unsupportive, classless portion of fans in the stadium. Many true blue fans were lost when the STEP program replaced loyal fans with the highest bidders. In more recent years I have not enjoyed the Beaver Stadium experience largely due to the people seated around me. Poorly behaved, little interest in what is happening on the field, primarily interested in selfies of their antics so they can post “look at me” on social media.

Many cluelessly booing because it is the fashionable thing to do.
 
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Moogy

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PSUForever said:
We didn't have a very good thing. So you are not operating from facts. You are operating from a risk adverse timid, afraid to lose (so you will lose) standpoint.
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We had a very good thing. Highly successful over a decade plus. So successful that the shock of an expected national title contender (if not favorite) dropping 3 games in a row, including 2 shockers, was enough to send everyone reeling. And here we are.

I don't AVOID risk. I manage it. I eliminate it (to varying extents). Hedge it, as necessary and beneficial.

But here, again, I'm not operating at all. I'm a spectator. I have no control. I can only assess from the outside.


PSUForever said:
Here is the assessment:

Our objective is to win national championships so you align your strategies and tactics against this overarching objective.

Situation Assessment
Your current coach is 4-21 vs top ten teams and 1-18 versus top 5 teams. This means your current coach can't beat teams of equal or slightly better talent. Can't win big games.

Your current coach just lost two games in a row where he was a 20 plus point favorite. This has never been done before.

Your current coach lost the team as evidenced by their lack of effort and heart in the last two games.

Your current coach lost the support of the fan base and donors.

A reasonable person would evaluate this situation and conclude that a change needs to be made to the head coaching position in order to position Penn State to achieve its objective of winning national championships.

Risk Mitigation Plans
Conduct a thorough coaching search with clear metrics on what you are looking for. Vett candidates against these metrics such as confidence they can develop mentally tough teams that can execute in the clutch. Something Franklin's teams failed miserably at.

There is risk, of course there is risk. You make it seem like it is a certainty that we have made the wrong decision and we will spiral into decades of irrelevance. I disagree.
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Your accusation is nonsense. Where in my writing did I make it seem like it is a certainty that we have made the wrong decision and blah, blah, blah? If you were attempting to be reasonable and rational, you would have read what I actually wrote ... things like "things may work out" and "we may end up with a better thing."

How would a reasonable individual see those statements and come to the conclusion the author thinks it's a certainty that we have made the wrong decision?

I'm not arguing the particulars with an irrational, unreasonable person.
 
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psu0408

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Time will tell whether getting rid of Franklin was a good or bad decision. I predict he’ll take a year off before looking for another position. Will he be seriously considered for an above average SEC job (UF), or for a middling ACC program looking to break into the top 25 (VT/UNC). IMO, he would need to rebuild a mediocre ACC or Big 12 team first before he would ever be considered for a blue blood program.
 
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PSUForever

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Moogy said:
We had a very good thing. Highly successful over a decade plus. So successful that the shock of an expected national title contender (if not favorite) dropping 3 games in a row, including 2 shockers, was enough to send everyone reeling. And here we are.

I don't AVOID risk. I manage it. I eliminate it (to varying extents). Hedge it, as necessary and beneficial.

But here, again, I'm not operating at all. I'm a spectator. I have no control. I can only assess from the outside.




Your accusation is nonsense. Where in my writing did I make it seem like it is a certainty that we have made the wrong decision and blah, blah, blah? If you were attempting to be reasonable and rational, you would have read what I actually wrote ... things like "things may work out" and "we may end up with a better thing."

How would a reasonable individual see those statements and come to the conclusion the author thinks it's a certainty that we have made the wrong decision?

I'm not arguing the particulars with an irrational, unreasonable person.
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LOL. This is what you said..."Only an idiot would gamble like that". You clearly think this is a bad decision so the inference is that your bias is it won't work out. If you thought it would have a decent probability of it working out then you would not make that statement.

Nevertheless, the fact that you think we had a "very good" situation with Franklin tells me all I need to know.
 
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