Do we miss Cal yet?

May 27, 2007
31,124
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Yeah but there’s no denying that Calipari’s defensive efficiency numbers fell off a cliff post-Covid. I’m not a Cal hater and you don’t ever have to worry about me bashing the guy — I still have an affection for all our former coaches. I’m a history guy. Cal was absolutely in decline toward the end — it was time to go. Unfortunately, we may have plugged the wrong hole with the the wrong plug lol. Most fans chirped about Cal’s offense, but it actually was still good —- even late career. So we went to fix offense, and now we are still having the same issues with our current coach. We can’t defend enough to win at an elite level.

Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2002

Offensive Efficiency - 29

Defensive Efficiency - 9

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2003

Offensive Efficiency - 5

Defensive Efficiency - 4

Meets Criteria for Contender - Yes



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2004

Offensive Efficiency - 26

Defensive Efficiency - 7

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2005

Offensive Efficiency - 29

Defensive Efficiency - 3

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2006

Offensive Efficiency - 19

Defensive Efficiency - 75

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2007

Offensive Efficiency - 15

Defensive Efficiency - 34

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2008

Offensive Efficiency - 104

Defensive Efficiency - 67

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2009

Offensive Efficiency - 91

Defensive Efficiency - 27

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2010

Offensive Efficiency - 22

Defensive Efficiency - 6

Meets Criteria for Contender - Yes



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2011

Offensive Efficiency - 8

Defensive Efficiency - 16

Meets Criteria for Contender - Yes



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2012

Offensive Efficiency - 2

Defensive Efficiency - 7

Meets Criteria for Contender - Yes



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2013

Offensive Efficiency - 38

Defensive Efficiency - 88

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2014

Offensive Efficiency - 14

Defensive Efficiency - 32

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2015

Offensive Efficiency - 6

Defensive Efficiency - 1

Meets Criteria for Contender - Yes



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2016

Offensive Efficiency - 5

Defensive Efficiency - 39

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2017

Offensive Efficiency - 12

Defensive Efficiency - 7

Meets Criteria for Contender - Yes



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2018

Offensive Efficiency - 24

Defensive Efficiency - 22

Meets Criteria for Contender - Yes



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2019

Offensive Efficiency - 14

Defensive Efficiency - 8

Meets Criteria for Contender - Yes



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2020

Offensive Efficiency - 24

Defensive Efficiency - 52

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2021

Offensive Efficiency - 84

Defensive Efficiency - 35

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2022

Offensive Efficiency - 5

Defensive Efficiency - 36

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2023

Offensive Efficiency - 17

Defensive Efficiency - 68

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2024

Offensive Efficiency - 7

Defensive Efficiency - 109

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2025

Offensive Efficiency - 10

Defensive Efficiency - 51

Meets Criteria for Contender - No



Kentucky Wildcats Season - 2026

Offensive Efficiency - 36

Defensive Efficiency - 30

Meets Criteria for Contender - No
Did the coaching philosophy change post 15 or did he just not gotten that interior shot blocker that he had at the beginning of his era here?

See I would take a stab in the dark that the elite recruiter guy will at some point grab guys where he could get that defensive number back up.

This all goes back to recruiting and coaching.

I know that Cal can recruit enough talent to turn a team into a contender.
I'm not entirely sure Pope can. At least he hasn't demonstrated it to this point.
 
Jul 30, 2024
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Did the coaching philosophy change post 15 or did he just not gotten that interior shot blocker that he had at the beginning of his era here?

See I would take a stab in the dark that the elite recruiter guy will at some point grab guys where he could get that defensive number back up.

This all goes back to recruiting and coaching.

I know that Cal can recruit enough talent to turn a team into a contender.
I'm not entirely sure Pope can. At least he hasn't demonstrated it to this point.
It’s a very good question, and this where I know we won’t agree. I don’t think recruiting is, or was, the issue with Cal. I don’t think recruiting is, or was, the issue with Pope. I’ve probably typed 8,000,000 words about this subject on this website and I find that no one cares how specifically I can back that up, so I’ll just say this: we can disagree about what the issues are. You can hold the view that it’s recruiting. I can hold the view that it is gameplanning, strategy and teaching. We wind up in the same place —- it isn’t working. I really want to believe in Pope, but I have to believe in the data even more. I don’t believe Pope can coach teams that regularly finish top 25 in KenPom defensively…I said a week ago that I was confident we would finish top 10 in defense with JQ. However, today Pope was still doing the same things with ball screens that were doing without him. And didn’t adjust. I don’t see how it can work.
 
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Kats meow

Senior
Nov 16, 2021
787
934
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Pope has never been more than mediocre or mediocre + anywhere he has been. Thinking he would be a savior here was fool’s gold. There is/was no basis for the lofty expectations. The best predictor of future success is past performance.
 

gracetoyou

Heisman
Apr 19, 2009
18,985
26,974
113
I watched Arkansas several times this season & yea, I miss him. Arkansas is talented & has a shot to make a deep, deep run. Great, great balance!
 
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kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
48,879
67,771
113
The wins and losses is what earns you a good seed.


We had good teams in 2022 and 2024.

We also happened to choke in the biggest games of those seasons in March

Both things are true.
The teams Cal had from 19- 24, are nothing compared to the dominance Cal put out there from 09-15. You could build an all star team out of his 22 and 24 teams and they wouldn’t compete with his 10, 12, or 15 teams.
Cal was a boss in those days. He was a completely different guy from 20-24, I don't know how anyone could possibly debate that.
 

BigBluefoot

All-American
Jul 4, 2025
1,203
5,669
113
I do not miss Cal.at all, BUT at the minimum he would have this team hustling and playing with some sense of urgency.
 
May 27, 2007
31,124
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The teams Cal had from 19- 24, are nothing compared to the dominance Cal put out there from 09-15. You could build an all star team out of his 22 and 24 teams and they wouldn’t compete with his 10, 12, or 15 teams.
Cal was a boss in those days. He was a completely different guy from 20-24, I don't know how anyone could possibly debate that.

Yeah but those 22 and 24 teams weren't playing against his 2010, 12 and 15 teams.

They didn't need to be better than those teams. Those type teams (especially 15 and maybe even 12) were once in a blue moon level teams.

22 and 24 just need to be compared to the rest of college bball in 22 and 24...........and while they lost in the first round each year, many certainly considered them to be good enough.
 
Jul 30, 2024
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Yeah but those 22 and 24 teams weren't playing against his 2010, 12 and 15 teams.

They didn't need to be better than those teams. Those type teams (especially 15 and maybe even 12) were once in a blue moon level teams.

22 and 24 just need to be compared to the rest of college bball in 22 and 24...........and while they lost in the first round each year, many certainly considered them to be good enough.
I’m a massive fan of 2022 because I love Oscar. That said, if you believe in KenPom efficiency numbers, they were not a national title contender because of ——- you guessed it, defense. Yet again. That team had a defensive efficiency ranking of 36th, which by the way, is worse than this year’s team which is 30th. We could say maybe it would have been better if the untimely injuries didn’t occur that season.
 
May 27, 2007
31,124
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It’s a very good question, and this where I know we won’t agree. I don’t think recruiting is, or was, the issue with Cal. I don’t think recruiting is, or was, the issue with Pope. I’ve probably typed 8,000,000 words about this subject on this website and I find that no one cares how specifically I can back that up, so I’ll just say this: we can disagree about what the issues are. You can hold the view that it’s recruiting. I can hold the view that it is gameplanning, strategy and teaching. We wind up in the same place —- it isn’t working. I really want to believe in Pope, but I have to believe in the data even more. I don’t believe Pope can coach teams that regularly finish top 25 in KenPom defensively…I said a week ago that I was confident we would finish top 10 in defense with JQ. However, today Pope was still doing the same things with ball screens that were doing without him. And didn’t adjust. I don’t see how it can work.

Cal took us to four final fours and won a national title.

He's coached for how many decades now?

Did his gameplanning, strategy and teaching change? No I just think it WAS the recruiting.

This is like when the Mets have Buck Showalter as their manager. Year 1, everyone was going great. Dude wins Manager of the Year. Second year.....not so good. Gets fired.

And I'm sitting here thinking dude didn't change in one year after spending decades managing teams lol.

It goes back to this whole thing about managers/coaches getting far too much credit when things go well and far too much of the blame when they do not.
 
May 27, 2007
31,124
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I’m a massive fan of 2022 because I love Oscar. That said, if you believe in KenPom efficiency numbers, they were not a national title contender because of ——- you guessed it, defense. Yet again. That team had a defensive efficiency ranking of 36th, which by the way, is worse than this year’s team which is 30th. We could say maybe it would have been better if the untimely injuries didn’t occur that season.
You have to remember......that's not a hard and fast rule.

That top 25 thing btw..........there was teams that were not in the pre tourny top 25 that did go on to win titles. If you win six games vs very good opponents you are naturally going to move up. We were 36th ranked. You know the difference between us and 25? 1.3 in terms of efficiency. Could we have reached that point at the end of the year if one was to play six games vs good competition in the tournament? Yep I'd think so.

And you know me.......I've pointed out the issues with "one sided" teams and their problems in the tourny. That's why 24 was a problem. But at the end of the day........your EM (the difference between your offense and defense is the number that matters).........that's your point spread........that's your distance between you and the other teams. If a team was extreme say 1st in offense but 75th in defense but the gap was still large enough for the EM to be large.........then that's fine. It might leave u less room for error if you have an off night but ultimately it's still ok. You can still contend.

In 24.........UK finished 7th/109th. But was overall 23rd in Kenpom and went into the tournament 17th overall in Kenpom. I still maintain that at that plus a 3 seed, that's a fringe contender there. In 2022 there was a lot of discussion about a possible 1 seed.
 
Jul 30, 2024
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Cal took us to four final fours and won a national title.

He's coached for how many decades now?

Did his gameplanning, strategy and teaching change? No I just think it WAS the recruiting.

This is like when the Mets have Buck Showalter as their manager. Year 1, everyone was going great. Dude wins Manager of the Year. Second year.....not so good. Gets fired.

And I'm sitting here thinking dude didn't change in one year after spending decades managing teams lol.

It goes back to this whole thing about managers/coaches getting far too much credit when things go well and far too much of the blame when they do not.
Well, I agree with you to an extent. I’m not one of these people who say “Cal can’t coach” or any of that nonsense. He’s an excellent coach and a brilliant mind. The problem is just what you said — he didnt change the gameplanning, strategy etc. College basketball is what changed. Go take a look at the efficiency numbers on KenPom from your top 10 teams and start looking year-to-year how they have increased. There’s a reason for that —- as coaches began to optimize their offenses and defenses AND the portal gave them the opportunity to predictably fill specific roles for roster construction, the need for more elaborate defensive attention increased. Was Calipari’s recruiting the same in 2019 that it was in 2012? No, but it also wasn’t going to be possible to keep at that level and I’ll detail why if you want. He still had elite classes, with Rivals still having Kentucky as the #1 rated high school class in the 2020 and 2023 recruiting cycles. How did those subsequent teams perform? The 2020 recruiting class wasn’t good enough defensively and were abysmal offensively. The 2023 recruiting class was his worst defensive team by a landslide. Note that none of the national champions in the last decade even had a top 5 recruiting class, so it’s interesting that we think that is the prominent aspect to begin with.
 
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Jul 30, 2024
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You have to remember......that's not a hard and fast rule.

That top 25 thing btw..........there was teams that were not in the pre tourny top 25 that did go on to win titles. If you win six games vs very good opponents you are naturally going to move up. We were 36th ranked. You know the difference between us and 25? 1.3 in terms of efficiency. Could we have reached that point at the end of the year if one was to play six games vs good competition in the tournament? Yep I'd think so.

And you know me.......I've pointed out the issues with "one sided" teams and their problems in the tourny. That's why 24 was a problem. But at the end of the day........your EM (the difference between your offense and defense is the number that matters).........that's your point spread........that's your distance between you and the other teams. If a team was extreme say 1st in offense but 75th in defense but the gap was still large enough for the EM to be large.........then that's fine. It might leave u less room for error if you have an off night but ultimately it's still ok. You can still contend.

In 24.........UK finished 7th/109th. But was overall 23rd in Kenpom and went into the tournament 17th overall in Kenpom. I still maintain that at that plus a 3 seed, that's a fringe contender there. In 2022 there was a lot of discussion about a possible 1 seed.
Right I agree with you. But that’s a chicken/egg dynamic there. You have to have the ABILITY to defend at that level to win those games and increase those efficiencies. You won’t have to work hard to convince me about 2022 though — always will defend that team. I still believe injuries stopped us short of special things there. The metrics say we weren’t a good enough defense though.
 
May 27, 2007
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Right I agree with you. But that’s a chicken/egg dynamic there. You have to have the ABILITY to defend at that level to win those games and increase those efficiencies. You won’t have to work hard to convince me about 2022 though — always will defend that team. I still believe injuries stopped us short of special things there. The metrics say we weren’t a good enough defense though.

I think 36 is ok. I don't even think 36 is bad. 36 to go along with a top offense is actually pretty good overall.

109 might not be lol.

Thing people have to realize.........these teams ultimately..........I mean that 2022 team ultimately got a 2 seed..............they earned that 2 seed by going through an entire season with a great record. So while yeah you want to have balance, I don't think it's completely necessary and I think 36th isn't the end of the world.

2024 maybe we could have a different discussion on lol. That probably wasn't a contender. But as a 3 seed, when I've watched Cal's teams for the past 14 years start off slow and make final fours after getting 4 and 8 seeds, I wouldn't have discounted another run.
 
Jul 30, 2024
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I think 36 is ok. I don't even think 36 is bad. 36 to go along with a top offense is actually pretty good overall.

109 might not be lol.

Thing people have to realize.........these teams ultimately..........I mean that 2022 team ultimately got a 2 seed..............they earned that 2 seed by going through an entire season with a great record. So while yeah you want to have balance, I don't think it's completely necessary and I think 36th isn't the end of the world.

2024 maybe we could have a different discussion on lol. That probably wasn't a contender. But as a 3 seed, when I've watched Cal's teams for the past 14 years start off slow and make final fours after getting 4 and 8 seeds, I wouldn't have discounted another run.
Hey man. You won me over on that 2022 team —- not that it need much to convince me haha. So one team in the last several years I can at least agree was a true contender and at best, one team could have potentially been a passable defense. It just wasn’t good enough —- it’s not to hate on Cal. He fell off. That’s okay —- people get washed up. Pitino looks like he may be washed up —- happens.

But ultimately I can’t blame it on recruiting when Scott Drew won a title during that era without a top 5 recruiting class that year. Bill Self won a title without a top 5 recruiting class that year. Dan Hurley won back to back titles without a top 5 recruiting class that era. Todd Golden won a title without a top 5 recruiting class that year. Yet, Calipari can finish 1st or 2nd almost every season and that isn’t enough?
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
48,879
67,771
113
Yeah but those 22 and 24 teams weren't playing against his 2010, 12 and 15 teams.

They didn't need to be better than those teams.
Those type teams (especially 15 and maybe even 12) were once in a blue moon level teams.

22 and 24 just need to be compared to the rest of college bball in 22 and 24...........and while they lost in the first round each year, many certainly considered them to be good enough.
LOL, I don't understand your response here. We were comparing 2009-15 Cal to 2020-24 Cal to illustrate the differences with Cal, why would you reply with the bolded sentence? That makes no sense.
Cal got fat and soft, he let go of the rope and that's understandable, there's no way you can sustain that level of energy and stress for more than 10 years here. He was a boss in his early years, he was a shadow of himself from 20-24. He got soft, it happens.
 
May 27, 2007
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LOL, I don't understand your response here. We were comparing 2009-15 Cal to 2020-24 Cal to illustrate the differences with Cal, why would you reply with the bolded sentence? That makes no sense.
Cal got fat and soft, he let go of the rope and that's understandable, there's no way you can sustain that level of energy and stress for more than 10 years here. He was a boss in his early years, he was a shadow of himself from 20-24. He got soft, it happens.

LOL your comparing teams to illustrate the difference in recruiting but why does that matter. We didn't have to have that level of talent to compete for national titles. 2012 and 2015 might never happen again in our lifetime. It's a ridiculous comparison. The 2022 and 2024 teams had plenty enough talent to compete with the teams of those years. That's my point. He's STILL recruiting well enough to be dangerous even at Arkansas.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
48,879
67,771
113
LOL your comparing teams to illustrate the difference in recruiting but why does that matter. We didn't have to have that level of talent to compete for national titles. 2012 and 2015 might never happen again in our lifetime. It's a ridiculous comparison. The 2022 and 2024 teams had plenty enough talent to compete with the teams of those years. That's my point. He's STILL recruiting well enough to be dangerous even at Arkansas.
Stopped reading after the first sentence, because we weren't comparing teams, we were comparing the difference between Calipari from 09-15 to Calipari in his last 5 years.
 
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HoggsEats

Sophomore
Nov 26, 2004
219
175
43
They are 11-3, not 11-2 and Mark pope also made it to the sweet 16 last year too. Mark Pope had a far better season last year (3 seed vs 11 seed). Cal had the better roster.
Also, Arkansas got to play a home game against Tennesee today, we had to play at Alabama, who is a much tougher team to guard.
And no, they do not have three players batter than what we have. We have a lottery pick Lowe and Oweh are right there with Thomas and Acuff.
Delusional at best! 🤣
 

HoggsEats

Sophomore
Nov 26, 2004
219
175
43
I'm proud of you.
I see you know how to inject and paste made up quotes but I'm not proud of you all. A complete embarrassment to the league.
You all don't deserve Pope, he should leave you all high and dry after the season and take his one recruit with him. $22 Million?
My gosh you all sucks! 😆
 
Jun 30, 2025
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Did the coaching philosophy change post 15 or did he just not gotten that interior shot blocker that he had at the beginning of his era here?

See I would take a stab in the dark that the elite recruiter guy will at some point grab guys where he could get that defensive number back up.

This all goes back to recruiting and coaching.

I know that Cal can recruit enough talent to turn a team into a contender.
I'm not entirely sure Pope can. At least he hasn't demonstrated it to this point.
We were first in block% in 2024 and ranked in the 100's in defensive efficiency.

The 2016 team everybody hates on for not having a productive true big? They ranked 30th in defensive rating. His "bad" defensive teams could manage to be in the 30's. After the 2020 season, the bottom fell out. He couldn't coach up his teams that lack on that end like he used. Those teams went from good but not elite, to average for a power conference.

Arkansas this year is back to the 60's in defensive efficiency, for what it's worth.

With Cal here, we were caught in a cycle of rolling the dice for that one or two prospects that would save the program. "This is the year! Boston is a alpha dawg we need!" Or "DJ Wagner is a dude!" We missed on the big talents and had to fill it in with second and third tier options. They leave and then we replace them with the same caliber.

What made the run form 2010 to 2012 great? Cal named some great and even transcendent freshmen. But look at those teams. Players BCG brought in stabilized the team. It didn't matter much that Daniel Orton stunk. Patrick Patterson was All American level and already on the roster!
 

HappyBlue

Junior
Dec 1, 2025
201
327
63
I watched Arkansas several times this season & yea, I miss him. Arkansas is talented & has a shot to make a deep, deep run. Great, great balance!
lol, Do you miss saying that the last 4 years Cal was here only to flame out in the 1st rd of the tourney?
 
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CELTICAT

Heisman
May 21, 2002
18,899
17,550
113
Only a dipshit would respect Cal for leaving the program the way he did.

you don’t like Cal. He left. Didn’t cost us a dime. Ended up with a team you thought could win it all. What part of that isn’t respectable, exactly?
 
Aug 4, 2025
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What’s he done with Walmart money?

I like Cal. He was a great coach who dominated an era of the game that evolved right into his wheelhouse.

NBA age rule/OAD (thus potency of NBA family going to eat pitch), recruiting rankings/media/industry, AAU circuit, bull in a China shop guard play…all came together while he was at Memphis and he parlayed it to the biggest platform that would fuel it.

Had a great run and will forever be a fan of his and hope he comes back to Lex and becomes a part of the program in someway. I honestly like him in a GM role.

Things inevitably changed, he did not.

Style of play changed away from dribble drive star ball. Other programs started going after OADs. If a kid is a NBA talent where he plays doesn’t really matter. Potency of get drafted make some money changed.

Everyone can pitch money now. Guaranteed playing time is also at a premium. Kids will sit and take smaller roles in eras past. Not now and they can move if they think they aren’t going to get the run and role they want.
 
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Dward13

Senior
Feb 5, 2008
9,873
935
72
Anyone missing Cal blows my mind. He’s performing about as well as an average Arkansas coach.

Yeah I don’t get it. They’re 11-3 and look to be a few levels below the real contenders like Michigan, Zona, Uconn.

I just find myself wishing we had Tommy Lloyd, Dan Hurley or Dusty May right now. Cal’s time as a threat nationally was over after 2017. That was Cal’s last truly dominant team imo.