Does anybody else think the UNC situation....

[BoremanEer]

....is a watershed situation for the NCAA? There cannot be any worse example of academic fraud that has ever existed in the NCAA, and yet UNC allows its team to compete in the NCAA tournament this year and tried everything it could to steamroll the NCAA investigation from the get-go. If UNC had been, say, the University of Massachusetts or Tulane, their program probably would have gotton the death penalty. There has to be a growing frustration with programs like WVU that run a clean program to see programs (like Syracuse, UCONN, UNC) openly cheat and flaunt it and get away with it. At least Louisville had the decency to pull its team out of the NCAA tournament. But I do not know how the NCAA can continue to do things legally like ban SMU, yet allow entitled programs like UNC to get away with the crap that they get away with. Sooner or later, some school (or conference) may get fed up and tell the NCAA to shove it. As it is, the only real "lack of institutional control" seems to be at the NCAA administration itself.

I know that once Bobby Bowden was asked if WVU ran a clean program, and he said "Laud, yes, but we are not lily white". I know WVU has had some minor run-ins (Jonathan Hargett concerning Gale Catlett) but to see schools like UNC and UCONN prosper from their actions, it refutes the old saying that "cheaters never prosper". In the NCAA cheaters do prosper. Very much so.

Thoughts??

 

[MountaineerGuy]

....is a watershed situation for the NCAA? There cannot be any worse example of academic fraud that has ever existed in the NCAA, and yet UNC allows its team to compete in the NCAA tournament this year and tried everything it could to steamroll the NCAA investigation from the get-go. If UNC had been, say, the University of Massachusetts or Tulane, their program probably would have gotton the death penalty. There has to be a growing frustration with programs like WVU that run a clean program to see programs (like Syracuse, UCONN, UNC) openly cheat and flaunt it and get away with it. At least Louisville had the decency to pull its team out of the NCAA tournament. But I do not know how the NCAA can continue to do things legally like ban SMU, yet allow entitled programs like UNC to get away with the crap that they get away with. Sooner or later, some school (or conference) may get fed up and tell the NCAA to shove it. As it is, the only real "lack of institutional control" seems to be at the NCAA administration itself.

I know that once Bobby Bowden was asked if WVU ran a clean program, and he said "Laud, yes, but we are not lily white". I know WVU has had some minor run-ins (Jonathan Hargett concerning Gale Catlett) but to see schools like UNC and UCONN prosper from their actions, it refutes the old saying that "cheaters never prosper". In the NCAA cheaters do prosper. Very much so.

Thoughts??

Totally agree. Worst example of cheating I've seen in 50 years. It appears to ME that UNC is simply telling the NCAA to go F themselves!!...........and, IF you NCAA boys don't like that prospect, you can lump it!! My thought is that UNC has already told the NCAA that since they can't subpeona folks and really get to the bottom of things, that they (UNC) will sue the living CRAP out of the NCAA if they try to make any real penalties stick. The NCAA is probably pondering whether it really has the kahonees to withstand an all out assault from UNC and it's buddy institutions. Just my 2 cents.

 

[coalcountry52]

Much like the WVSSAC getting owned by court injunctions anytime they try to rule on something, the NCAA is likely about to prove itself having the backbone of wet pasta, especially after removing the sanctions on Penn State early and dragging this case out. I have no real interest in what the NCAA does anymore, because it's not changing anything.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

....is a watershed situation for the NCAA? There cannot be any worse example of academic fraud that has ever existed in the NCAA, and yet UNC allows its team to compete in the NCAA tournament this year and tried everything it could to steamroll the NCAA investigation from the get-go. If UNC had been, say, the University of Massachusetts or Tulane, their program probably would have gotton the death penalty. There has to be a growing frustration with programs like WVU that run a clean program to see programs (like Syracuse, UCONN, UNC) openly cheat and flaunt it and get away with it. At least Louisville had the decency to pull its team out of the NCAA tournament. But I do not know how the NCAA can continue to do things legally like ban SMU, yet allow entitled programs like UNC to get away with the crap that they get away with. Sooner or later, some school (or conference) may get fed up and tell the NCAA to shove it. As it is, the only real "lack of institutional control" seems to be at the NCAA administration itself.

I know that once Bobby Bowden was asked if WVU ran a clean program, and he said "Laud, yes, but we are not lily white". I know WVU has had some minor run-ins (Jonathan Hargett concerning Gale Catlett) but to see schools like UNC and UCONN prosper from their actions, it refutes the old saying that "cheaters never prosper". In the NCAA cheaters do prosper. Very much so.

Thoughts??

The NCAA has done all it can to avoid and or delay the UNC cheating Scandal. It is mind blowing that they originally ruled this as an academic issue and not a NCAA cheating issue. They worked very hard with UNC to delay any action until after the tournament.

It won't surprise me if the NCAA gives them a slap on the wrist.

 

[xWVU2010x]

As Ive said over and over again. We might as well just pay the players if we arent already doing so (IMO we and pretty much everyone else in a P5 conference and the top midmajors do to some degree). The benefits outweigh the drawbacks, and all were really doing is giving money to guys who generate money for the school.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

UNC Charlotte & UNC Asheville will both be put on a 3 year probation and lose 25% of their scholarships in football and basketball. That will send a clear message to Chapel Hill that the NCAA is serious!

 

[topdecktiger]

....is a watershed situation for the NCAA? There cannot be any worse example of academic fraud that has ever existed in the NCAA, and yet UNC allows its team to compete in the NCAA tournament this year and tried everything it could to steamroll the NCAA investigation from the get-go. If UNC had been, say, the University of Massachusetts or Tulane, their program probably would have gotton the death penalty. There has to be a growing frustration with programs like WVU that run a clean program to see programs (like Syracuse, UCONN, UNC) openly cheat and flaunt it and get away with it. At least Louisville had the decency to pull its team out of the NCAA tournament. But I do not know how the NCAA can continue to do things legally like ban SMU, yet allow entitled programs like UNC to get away with the crap that they get away with. Sooner or later, some school (or conference) may get fed up and tell the NCAA to shove it. As it is, the only real "lack of institutional control" seems to be at the NCAA administration itself.

I know that once Bobby Bowden was asked if WVU ran a clean program, and he said "Laud, yes, but we are not lily white". I know WVU has had some minor run-ins (Jonathan Hargett concerning Gale Catlett) but to see schools like UNC and UCONN prosper from their actions, it refutes the old saying that "cheaters never prosper". In the NCAA cheaters do prosper. Very much so.

Thoughts??

You're being a little too impatient. The reason the investigation is still ongoing is that they turned up more evidence, so now they have to investigate further. I'm not sure why you think that's bad. That's actually good, because more evidence = more ammo. Keep in mind, the NCAA has to be sure to dot the i's and cross the t's because of what happened with Miami. The NCAA had Miami dead to rights, but had to let them off the hook because the evidence was collected illegally. Would you be happier if the NCAA rushed through the investigation, and then had to let North Carolina off on some technicality?

If the NCAA ultimately doesn't hand down sanctions, then you have a point. Criticizing the NCAA just because they aren't rushing out to hand down penalties right this minute is short-sighted on your part, in my opinion.

 

[dogeered_again]

Sort'a like the FBI investigating the State Department and Hillary which will be adjudicated by the DOJ!

 

[Buckaineer]

At this point it's absurd that 0 sanctions have been applied to UNC. To excuse it away as " it's an ongoing investigation is ludicrous at this point. A school like WVU was quickly punished for minor contact reporting violations yet everyone knows of major academic fraud at UNC related to their sports programs and they are allowed to play in the Championships after five or six years of this? Something is clearly broken.

Sanctions should be handed down, and as more are found, they can add to the punishments.

Stonewalling the NCAA investigation should not be grounds for inaction by the NCAA.

 

[Buckaineer]

Sort'a like the FBI investigating the State Department and Hillary which will be adjudicated by the DOJ!

You neo cons just can't keep your politics to yourself ? Take that b.s, to the political board.

 

[topdecktiger]

At this point it's absurd that 0 sanctions have been applied to UNC. To excuse it away as " it's an ongoing investigation is ludicrous at this point. A school like WVU was quickly punished for minor contact reporting violations yet everyone knows of major academic fraud at UNC related to their sports programs and they are allowed to play in the Championships after five or six years of this? Something is clearly broken.

Sanctions should be handed down, and as more are found, they can add to the punishments.

Stonewalling the NCAA investigation should not be grounds for inaction by the NCAA.

But that's not true. It simply doesn't work the way you want it to. If the NCAA tries to hand out the sanctions piecemeal, then they can't give out effective penalties. It will be a series of slaps on the wrist, rather than one big far reaching penalty. Again, I'll point out, everything has changed since the Miami case. That case set a precedent that schools can get off scot free if the NCAA makes a mistake in the investigation. The NCAA simply has to have everything air tight before they hand out penalties, or risk letting a school get off entirely.

 

[Buckaineer]

One can easily imagine that penalties for the level of violations UNC is known to have committed at this point would require a heavy level of penalty--not a "slap on the wrist" at all. Major academic fraud was committed to land and carry athletes through the university without actually providing them an education--and then then cover up and stonewalling on top.

If things come up after, then additional penalties would be warranted that would be additive.

Its been YEARS now. Many other schools have been punished, or self punished. Its really a crime at this point that nothing whatsoever has happened to UNC-they've suffered 0 penalties for blatantly cheating. The NCAA is supposed to have some level of ability to punish such wrongdoing. UNC should not be able to keep pushing the investigation further and further without sanction or penalties.

 

[The Hunteeeeeer]

The NCAA has done all it can to avoid and or delay the UNC cheating Scandal. It is mind blowing that they originally ruled this as an academic issue and not a NCAA cheating issue. They worked very hard with UNC to delay any action until after the tournament.

It won't surprise me if the NCAA gives them a slap on the wrist.

Not a chance. . Troy st will be hit hard!

 

[topdecktiger]

One can easily imagine that penalties for the level of violations UNC is known to have committed at this point would require a heavy level of penalty--not a "slap on the wrist" at all. Major academic fraud was committed to land and carry athletes through the university without actually providing them an education--and then then cover up and stonewalling on top.

If things come up after, then additional penalties would be warranted that would be additive.

Its been YEARS now. Many other schools have been punished, or self punished. Its really a crime at this point that nothing whatsoever has happened to UNC-they've suffered 0 penalties for blatantly cheating. The NCAA is supposed to have some level of ability to punish such wrongdoing. UNC should not be able to keep pushing the investigation further and further without sanction or penalties.

Actually, no, you can't imagine that. The NCAA's toughest sanctions have involved improper benefits, i.e. players getting paid. If you look back at how the NCAA has handed out punishments previously, the UNC case is sort of uncharted waters. Will fake classes fall into the same category as paying players? Nobody really knows at this point.

Aside from that, you have the facts all mixed up. First off, UNC has been sanctioned. The football team got a bowl ban and reduced scholarships in 2012. The AFAM scandal was discovered as an offshoot of that. The state of North Carolina did its own investigation, and the NCAA followed suit. The NCAA finished the investigation and sent UNC a Notice of Allegations last fall (which is what starts the formal disciplinary procedure). They were supposed to have their hearing at the beginning of March, which is normal procedure. The hearing was delayed because UNC self-reported additional violations, which is again normal procedure. One thing I will agree with is that UNC self-reported so that the investigation would continue until after the basketball tournament. It was a calculated move by UNC, but that's how the NCAA rules are set up. The NCAA has to investigate the additional charges before the disciplinary hearing can commence.

See, that's the thing you don't get. The NCAA can't do the investigation piecemeal like you want, because the NCAA bylaws on investigations don't allow for that. They have to conduct it as one entire investigation. If the NCAA breaks its own bylaws in the investigation, then you just end up with another situation like Miami where the school gets away with everything.

 

[Buckaineer]

Actually, no, you can't imagine that. The NCAA's toughest sanctions have involved improper benefits, i.e. players getting paid. If you look back at how the NCAA has handed out punishments previously, the UNC case is sort of uncharted waters. Will fake classes fall into the same category as paying players? Nobody really knows at this point.

Aside from that, you have the facts all mixed up. First off, UNC has been sanctioned. The football team got a bowl ban and reduced scholarships in 2012. The AFAM scandal was discovered as an offshoot of that. The state of North Carolina did its own investigation, and the NCAA followed suit. The NCAA finished the investigation and sent UNC a Notice of Allegations last fall (which is what starts the formal disciplinary procedure). They were supposed to have their hearing at the beginning of March, which is normal procedure. The hearing was delayed because UNC self-reported additional violations, which is again normal procedure. One thing I will agree with is that UNC self-reported so that the investigation would continue until after the basketball tournament. It was a calculated move by UNC, but that's how the NCAA rules are set up. The NCAA has to investigate the additional charges before the disciplinary hearing can commence.

See, that's the thing you don't get. The NCAA can't do the investigation piecemeal like you want, because the NCAA bylaws on investigations don't allow for that. They have to conduct it as one entire investigation. If the NCAA breaks its own bylaws in the investigation, then you just end up with another situation like Miami where the school gets away with everything.

Most reasonable people would agree that after five or six years the investigation should be concluded and punishment handed out. Instead it's as though the NCAA Or more likely UNC, is trying to push things out to some point that people forget about this. UNC is waiting and releasing new info at the last minute - delaying the investigation but it can't go on forever and it doesn't need to go on forever. There must be some stonewalling going on releasing the information- why is it taking UNC so long to "self report"? At some point you are getting information about new or different violations - yet some violations and the punishment for those must be finalized in a reasonable amount of time.

Considering the swiftness of punishment for ither schools again, reasonable people conclude that time has passed.

 

[Buckaineer]

Here is a good write up on this situation:

HOUSTON — He offered that it was only a “personal opinion,” so there may be no particular reason to overreact to Roy Williams’ statement to ESPN reporter Andy Katz that he believes the University of North Carolina basketball program will not be hit by NCAA sanctions.

That would mean, if he is correct, that at the conclusion of the NCAA investigation into academic irregularities at UNC, the Tar Heels would not face any of the coach suspensions that have become common among NCAA punishments, not deal with any roster restrictions and, most importantly, not be restricted from postseason play at any time in the future.

If he is correct, fans of North Carolina's regional rivals and other schools competing for elite recruits and NCAA Tournament glory are going to go berserk.

And it is quite possible such a result would be a devastating blow to the very structure of the NCAA justice system.

The NCAA enforcement division (employees who investigate allegations of rules violations) and the infractions committee (volunteers from member schools who hear the cases and rule on the outcomes) already have seen their credibility wane through a series of suspect maneuvers and capricious judgments, from the Miami case to the abortive examination of Shabazz Muhammad’s eligibility to the conveniently self-imposed/self-preservationist NCAA Tournament bans applied by Syracuse in 2015 and Louisville this season.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...s-north-carolina-investigation-academic-fraud

It sure seems the ACC has lots of friends in the NCAA

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

Actually, no, you can't imagine that. The NCAA's toughest sanctions have involved improper benefits, i.e. players getting paid. If you look back at how the NCAA has handed out punishments previously, the UNC case is sort of uncharted waters. Will fake classes fall into the same category as paying players? Nobody really knows at this point.

Aside from that, you have the facts all mixed up. First off, UNC has been sanctioned. The football team got a bowl ban and reduced scholarships in 2012. The AFAM scandal was discovered as an offshoot of that. The state of North Carolina did its own investigation, and the NCAA followed suit. The NCAA finished the investigation and sent UNC a Notice of Allegations last fall (which is what starts the formal disciplinary procedure). They were supposed to have their hearing at the beginning of March, which is normal procedure. The hearing was delayed because UNC self-reported additional violations, which is again normal procedure. One thing I will agree with is that UNC self-reported so that the investigation would continue until after the basketball tournament. It was a calculated move by UNC, but that's how the NCAA rules are set up. The NCAA has to investigate the additional charges before the disciplinary hearing can commence.

See, that's the thing you don't get. The NCAA can't do the investigation piecemeal like you want, because the NCAA bylaws on investigations don't allow for that. They have to conduct it as one entire investigation. If the NCAA breaks its own bylaws in the investigation, then you just end up with another situation like Miami where the school gets away with everything.

Lets be honest here. The first investigation did not turn up the issue with the basketball team. UNC lied and covered up. An NCSU student posted the transcripts from a basketball player showing they had taken these classes. UNC lied and covered up to protect their 2009 championship then delayed so they would have a shot at it this year. Academic fraud is bad enough but the cover up and lying to the NCAA is worse. That is what did SMU in.

 

[TexasforevEER]

....is a watershed situation for the NCAA? There cannot be any worse example of academic fraud that has ever existed in the NCAA, and yet UNC allows its team to compete in the NCAA tournament this year and tried everything it could to steamroll the NCAA investigation from the get-go. If UNC had been, say, the University of Massachusetts or Tulane, their program probably would have gotton the death penalty. There has to be a growing frustration with programs like WVU that run a clean program to see programs (like Syracuse, UCONN, UNC) openly cheat and flaunt it and get away with it. At least Louisville had the decency to pull its team out of the NCAA tournament. But I do not know how the NCAA can continue to do things legally like ban SMU, yet allow entitled programs like UNC to get away with the crap that they get away with. Sooner or later, some school (or conference) may get fed up and tell the NCAA to shove it. As it is, the only real "lack of institutional control" seems to be at the NCAA administration itself.

I know that once Bobby Bowden was asked if WVU ran a clean program, and he said "Laud, yes, but we are not lily white". I know WVU has had some minor run-ins (Jonathan Hargett concerning Gale Catlett) but to see schools like UNC and UCONN prosper from their actions, it refutes the old saying that "cheaters never prosper". In the NCAA cheaters do prosper. Very much so.

Thoughts??

Yes.................the new game is called 'money ball'. The shiny shoes know how the game is played. There are no rules. Warez

 

[topdecktiger]

Most reasonable people would agree that after five or six years the investigation should be concluded and punishment handed out. Instead it's as though the NCAA Or more likely UNC, is trying to push things out to some point that people forget about this. UNC is waiting and releasing new info at the last minute - delaying the investigation but it can't go on forever and it doesn't need to go on forever. There must be some stonewalling going on releasing the information- why is it taking UNC so long to "self report"? At some point you are getting information about new or different violations - yet some violations and the punishment for those must be finalized in a reasonable amount of time.

Considering the swiftness of punishment for ither schools again, reasonable people conclude that time has passed.

No, you are simply misrepresenting the facts. The NCAA has a certain procedure for handing out sanctions. They can't do it by the seat of their pants like you want. The NCAA has in fact followed normal procedure. They sent UNC a Notice of Allegations letter last fall. UNC has 90 days to respond, which they did. Then was scheduled for March. So no, the NCAA wasn't letting UNC get off. They had already started the procedure, and everything was progressing on schedule.

What extended the process is that UNC self-reported additional violations at the end of last year. Due to the rules of the investigation procedure, the NCAA had to reopen the investigation when the new violations were reported. There isn't any choice. They had to do it.

Now as to why UNC self-reported, I clearly explained that. UNC self-reported because they thought they could win the tournament this year, so they gambled on getting tougher sanctions in the future to win the national championship this year. If you want to say that's dirty by UNC, that's fine. The problem is, they can legally do that. UNC took advantage of a loophole.

Bottom line, North Carolina is going to get sanctions. That's a foregone conclusion. The only question is how much and for how long.

Lets be honest here. The first investigation did not turn up the issue with the basketball team. UNC lied and covered up. An NCSU student posted the transcripts from a basketball player showing they had taken these classes. UNC lied and covered up to protect their 2009 championship then delayed so they would have a shot at it this year. Academic fraud is bad enough but the cover up and lying to the NCAA is worse. That is what did SMU in.

That's not what I said. Don't twist my words. I didn't say the first investigation turned up the AFAM scandal. I said it led to it. The two main violations in the first investigation were agents paying players and tutors writing papers for players. After the NCAA ruling, the state of North Carolina conducted its own investigation for two reasons: 1) the state of North Carolina has criminal laws regulating the conduct of agents, 2) the state has oversight of UNC, obviously, so they investigated the academic charges as well. That's what led to the revelations of all the fraud in the AFAM classes. The problem is, the NCAA wasn't going to get anywhere near a state/federal investigation because of what happened with Miami. The NCAA conducted their own investigation, separate from the state of North Carolina. That's what accounts for the length of time. The NCAA was right to do that. They already got burned on the Miami case, so it would be stupid to make the same mistake again.

 

[Samuel S]

Sure UNC will get sanctions, but will it get sanctions commensurate with the seriousness of the conduct and the duration for which it persisted?

Generally, the worst sanctions come following a finding of "lack of institution control" (which is a somewhat Orwellian euphemism used to describe what would more objectively be termed instances of the "institution controlling the corruption" rather than instances of a rogue coach or player breaking rules).

Semantics aside, this is a case that cries out for such a finding and very severe sanctions. Will it happen?

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

No, you are simply misrepresenting the facts. The NCAA has a certain procedure for handing out sanctions. They can't do it by the seat of their pants like you want. The NCAA has in fact followed normal procedure. They sent UNC a Notice of Allegations letter last fall. UNC has 90 days to respond, which they did. Then was scheduled for March. So no, the NCAA wasn't letting UNC get off. They had already started the procedure, and everything was progressing on schedule.

What extended the process is that UNC self-reported additional violations at the end of last year. Due to the rules of the investigation procedure, the NCAA had to reopen the investigation when the new violations were reported. There isn't any choice. They had to do it.

Now as to why UNC self-reported, I clearly explained that. UNC self-reported because they thought they could win the tournament this year, so they gambled on getting tougher sanctions in the future to win the national championship this year. If you want to say that's dirty by UNC, that's fine. The problem is, they can legally do that. UNC took advantage of a loophole.

Bottom line, North Carolina is going to get sanctions. That's a foregone conclusion. The only question is how much and for how long.



That's not what I said. Don't twist my words. I didn't say the first investigation turned up the AFAM scandal. I said it led to it. The two main violations in the first investigation were agents paying players and tutors writing papers for players. After the NCAA ruling, the state of North Carolina conducted its own investigation for two reasons: 1) the state of North Carolina has criminal laws regulating the conduct of agents, 2) the state has oversight of UNC, obviously, so they investigated the academic charges as well. That's what led to the revelations of all the fraud in the AFAM classes. The problem is, the NCAA wasn't going to get anywhere near a state/federal investigation because of what happened with Miami. The NCAA conducted their own investigation, separate from the state of North Carolina. That's what accounts for the length of time. The NCAA was right to do that. They already got burned on the Miami case, so it would be stupid to make the same mistake again.

The bottom line is UNC lied to the NCAA about basketball players not being involved. A NCSU student got his hands on a transcript and posted it on line. The rest is history.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

You're being a little too impatient. The reason the investigation is still ongoing is that they turned up more evidence, so now they have to investigate further. I'm not sure why you think that's bad. That's actually good, because more evidence = more ammo. Keep in mind, the NCAA has to be sure to dot the i's and cross the t's because of what happened with Miami. The NCAA had Miami dead to rights, but had to let them off the hook because the evidence was collected illegally. Would you be happier if the NCAA rushed through the investigation, and then had to let North Carolina off on some technicality?

If the NCAA ultimately doesn't hand down sanctions, then you have a point. Criticizing the NCAA just because they aren't rushing out to hand down penalties right this minute is short-sighted on your part, in my opinion.

Actually, UNC self report minor violations in order to extend the verdict (if any) past NCAA Dance

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Lets be honest here. The first investigation did not turn up the issue with the basketball team. UNC lied and covered up. An NCSU student posted the transcripts from a basketball player showing they had taken these classes. UNC lied and covered up to protect their 2009 championship then delayed so they would have a shot at it this year. Academic fraud is bad enough but the cover up and lying to the NCAA is worse. That is what did SMU in.

Actually you are wrong. The NCAA did know about the classes, however the NCAA turned a blind eye saying it was a QUOTE, academic issue, not an NCAA issue UNQOTE. However the local newspapers (The News & Observer )actually provided real a investigation showing that UNC lied about how deep it actually went. The continued N&R investigation forced the NCAA's hand to reopen the case.

It is clear the NCAA wanted this issue to quietly go away, and is why they did such a piss A$$ job of investigating the 1st time around

 

[BoremanEer]

The problem for the NCAA is that, at least in the eyes of the public, cheaters DO prosper. Connecticut wins the national championship recently. UNC maneuvers the entire situation to make sure that they can participate in the NCAA tournament this year, when, with any decency, they should have emulated Louisville and backed out. It appears UNC ran everything and not the NCAA. Syracuse comes off a big penalty to go to the FInal 4. There seems to be a disproportional amount of wrong doing in ACC schools, with little institutional or conference control.

I appreciate all the comments topdecktiger made above, but I guess I am stating what the public perception is. What school would NOT cheat now? Go for it all and get yourself a national championship. Get put on probation like Penn State did in football, whine like crazy and get out of almost all of your punishment, and laugh in everybody's face. I am very concerned at the attitude a lot of my friends who are UNC fans have. (I taught school in NC for 12 years). It is sort of like "We are UNC. Nothing will be done. They would not dare." You see programs who are serial cheaters like USC and Alabama in football, Kentucky in basketball.....they remain prosperous, like they are above any form of authority.

What bothers me about UNC is the overall attitude of their fans. They brag about "academics" and how much better they are than anybody else. I would love it when they would hold their noses about WVU getting in the ACC because of "academics" (I would always point out Rhodes Scholars, WVU's overall rating in specific academic fields, ect.) Facts did not matter. THEY WERE UNC....that made them above everybody else......and entitled in the idea that they could not be questioned in ANYTHING, even the most embarrassing example of academic fraud for athletes in NCAA history.

So again, I ask.........................if the NCAA sits on its butt and allows UNC to get off or get a slap on the wrist, why would any school not cheat? There simply are too many rewards to do so and too little punishment. Look at the schools that have gotton the "death" penalty in the past. No bluebloods on the list. Do you think if the academic fraud had been at a "blue collar" school like WVU, or for that matter, a school like Oregon State, Iowa State, or NC State, do you think, topdecktiger and everybody else, this thing would have dragged on to enable UNC to participate in the NCAA tournament and come within a miracle shot by Villanova of winning it all and smirking at everyone?

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

Actually you are wrong. The NCAA did know about the classes, however the NCAA turned a blind eye saying it was a QUOTE, academic issue, not an NCAA issue UNQOTE. However the local newspapers (The News & Observer )actually provided real a investigation showing that UNC lied about how deep it actually went. The continued N&R investigation forced the NCAA's hand to reopen the case.

It is clear the NCAA wanted this issue to quietly go away, and is why they did such a piss A$$ job of investigating the 1st time around

I am wrong? You basically repeated what I said. So basically I agree except the news paper was alerted by a crafty NCSU student. In the spring of 2009, their starters were taking something like 16 classes in the AFAM program. McCants had all 4 of his classes in AFAM. There is no way the NCAA can let them kept that banner.

 

[Samuel S]

Then here's this:


http://collegebasketball.ap.org/wvg...-so-miss-coach-tyndall-hit-10-year-show-cause


Now, I really don't know enough about either USM/Tyndall or UNC/Williams, to suggest Williams deserves the same punishment, but what are the odds Williams gets even a 10 game suspension, which would be somewhat less than 1/30th of what the NCAA slapped on Tyndall?

 

[TexasforevEER]

What is the real "bottom line?"