I think Stoops can get it done. My concern from the start was that he didn't bring in anyone with program experience. It would have been nice to have someone like Ort on the staff, someone you can go to who's been there and done that. Huge learning curve for a first time coach, especially in this conference.
Does Mark Stoops have the requisite abilities to be UK's head coach?
- Thread starter Kampus Korner_rivals164031
- Start date
You're hanging your hat on a guy that you just admitted took 3 years to take "his first big step as 'an' HC"? So are you saying we can expect a big step every $10MM or so?
Just because you can't find the man you want to fill the job, it does not follow that Mr. Stoops can handle the job. After three years his teams are still not competitive in the SEC. His recruiting, while getting higher reviews from some UK fans, still is at the bottom of the barrel in the SEC. I just do not see any chance for improvement.
1. Stoops does have a clear vision of his offense. I don't think he's had the personnel nor stability to implement it. Stoops has been enamored with Oklahoma State's offense. This is a variable spread offense that at times can go up-tempo. Depending on personnel it can pass a lot or run a lot. OSU uses the words "Air Raid" to define their offense but it's clearly not Mumme-ball. Brown ran something darn near similar at TTU......so I don't think Stoops needed much convincing to hire Brown since he was in alignment with what Stoops wanted. Also, one of the architects of the modern OSU's offense is Dana Holgorson.....which helps to explain the Dawson hire.
So, now Stoops goes out and hires yet another up-tempo, fairly balanced spread guy in Gran. He's done it 3x now.
2. It is my knowledge that Towles announced his transfer before Stoops said they were going with Barker. He even tried to get Towles to stay but he thought it was in his best interest to go. I can certainly understand if Phillips is upset though.
Also, there's the notion that Stoops forced Dawson to play Towles. Keep in mind that Stoops was ok with Brown playing Whitlow/Smith.....and Stoops didn't mind Brown allowing Towles to run. It's entirely possible that Dawson was the rigid party.....not allowing Towles to run......not allowing Barker to play. Keep in mind that Stoops said several times publicly his hopes to play Barker throughout the season.
3. I certainly don't think Stoops took the easy route in his first job. Sure, you may be able to get by without a ST Coord but you certainly don't want to experiment as a first time HC. Hiring Dawson was another mistake. You should've thrown the kitchen sink at Gran last yr. As much as Stoops is connected with Eliot, I probably would've made him co-DC with a veteran. And making the switch from 4-3 to 3-5 is a switch that takes several yrs and puts a lot of strain on the installation of the program.
However, I do give Stoops credit. He didn't hesitate with firing Dawson and made a great hire, I think.
In any case Stoops is pretty much here for the next 2 yrs. Will he sink? Will he swim? We shall see
So, now Stoops goes out and hires yet another up-tempo, fairly balanced spread guy in Gran. He's done it 3x now.
2. It is my knowledge that Towles announced his transfer before Stoops said they were going with Barker. He even tried to get Towles to stay but he thought it was in his best interest to go. I can certainly understand if Phillips is upset though.
Also, there's the notion that Stoops forced Dawson to play Towles. Keep in mind that Stoops was ok with Brown playing Whitlow/Smith.....and Stoops didn't mind Brown allowing Towles to run. It's entirely possible that Dawson was the rigid party.....not allowing Towles to run......not allowing Barker to play. Keep in mind that Stoops said several times publicly his hopes to play Barker throughout the season.
3. I certainly don't think Stoops took the easy route in his first job. Sure, you may be able to get by without a ST Coord but you certainly don't want to experiment as a first time HC. Hiring Dawson was another mistake. You should've thrown the kitchen sink at Gran last yr. As much as Stoops is connected with Eliot, I probably would've made him co-DC with a veteran. And making the switch from 4-3 to 3-5 is a switch that takes several yrs and puts a lot of strain on the installation of the program.
However, I do give Stoops credit. He didn't hesitate with firing Dawson and made a great hire, I think.
In any case Stoops is pretty much here for the next 2 yrs. Will he sink? Will he swim? We shall see
First off I hope you are right about Gran, but I not only think that Mike Leach believes he could and would win here
I enjoy your posts BlueRaider but I must say if Stoops has a clear vision of his offense then he is the only one that does
Now to be serious for a moment
If Towles had decided to transfer before Barker took over I wonder what led him to that conclusion? He was getting all the snaps, Stoops had given him every chance in the world to succeed. It was clear Barker couldn't beat him out of the job.
If it was Dawson's choice not to allow Towles to run then it was one of the all time dumbest calls in the history of UK football(right along side Couch running the option) I wonder when Stoops decided "whoops I've f'ed up with this Dawson guy"
If the divide between Stoops and Dawson was as great as it is beginning to appear and Stoops lost some confidence in Eliot then he(Stoops) was really on an island and some of the in game decisions are a bit more understandable(you can only keep so many balls in the air at a time)
If all or any of this is the case then UK football was/is a bigger mess than we thought and some of the blame has to be placed at Stoops' feet. Three years in there shouldn't have been this many issues to deal with if not for a good deal of mismanagement along the way.
^The players and staff know the direction of the offense. It's the fans that don't. To the fans it's like walking into a grave with car parts all over the place and trying to figure out what car it's going to be when it's built. The mechanics know they just haven't built it yet.
And just because they know what kind of offense they want yo run doesn't mean they'll be successful. Clearly there still is a lot of question marks left to be answered.
And just because they know what kind of offense they want yo run doesn't mean they'll be successful. Clearly there still is a lot of question marks left to be answered.
Dawson said he did not run the wildcat and did not like to call running plays for his QB in a few interviews before the season. We saw less QB called running plays and virtually no wildcat. This, even though Dawson admitted the remaining staffers were high on using the wildcat. I think Dawson was rigid to an extent. Can there be an argument against?
I loved Dawson at the podium and wanted him to succeed. I applaud Stoops for the chance he took on a young OC who came with endorsements, but I also applaud him for cutting the string after one failed year. I wish Brooks had acted quicker with Hudson. When it ain't working, regardless of whether someone is at fault, early divorce is better than a continued failed marriage.
I loved Dawson at the podium and wanted him to succeed. I applaud Stoops for the chance he took on a young OC who came with endorsements, but I also applaud him for cutting the string after one failed year. I wish Brooks had acted quicker with Hudson. When it ain't working, regardless of whether someone is at fault, early divorce is better than a continued failed marriage.
it always tickles me to hear bball fans wonder about football. Mark Stoops was and still is the best thing for UK football. Has the best recruiting classes in school history last 2 yrs and this yr will be another. Let this man do his job and get his players at depth. Quit making mountains out of molehills. We`ve been on the verge of bowl seasons the past 2 yrs in just his 2nd and 3rd yrs respectively. We`re going to be an awesome program if some of our fans will be a little more patient and see what happens in his next 2 seasons.
Agreed. I was all in with Coach Stoops from the beginning. I even got to meet the guy in Florida along with his wife and kids. He seems like a great guy.
Unfortunately, I'll use a Trump quote: "all talk and no action" so far....
Not beating UL or Vandy is an absolute disgrace at this point. 5 wins again is a joke. He hasn't outcoached anyone. Now, when I hear his voice on radio commercials promoting a product, I cringe. I'm very skeptical of everything he says now after this season.
As someone who is not a long time fan, having only moved here and become a UK fan after I started UK Law in 2010, so I have been a season ticket holder for only 5 years now....
I missed the Tim Couch era, Mumme, and obviously a lot of offensive glory days. After reading this thread I am wondering...is that a handicap for the program going forward? Does a head coach really have to pledge loyalty to an offensive scheme in order to have a job here? If Paul Johnson or Jim Harbaugh or Dan Mullen said "its my lifelong dream to coach at Kentucky..." would we turn them down because they don't run a certain offense that reminds the fans of the Tim Couch glory days?
This worries me...
I missed the Tim Couch era, Mumme, and obviously a lot of offensive glory days. After reading this thread I am wondering...is that a handicap for the program going forward? Does a head coach really have to pledge loyalty to an offensive scheme in order to have a job here? If Paul Johnson or Jim Harbaugh or Dan Mullen said "its my lifelong dream to coach at Kentucky..." would we turn them down because they don't run a certain offense that reminds the fans of the Tim Couch glory days?
This worries me...
He's been very, very underwhelming. Talent and depth have been upgraded across the board yet Stoops' team gets badly out coached and out played by teams with noticeably less talent and depth. Stoops is what he is. I don't think he should be the head coach, but the underlying problem is the guy who hired him. Even if Stoops is fired (which he clearly should be if we as fans had any expectations/football intelligence whatsoever) what difference will it make when we have Mitch Barnhart making the next hire?
Yes, Mark Stoops has the requisite abilities to be Kentucky's head football coach. He is the best recruiter we have had in more than a generation. He is a successful fundraiser with a strategic vision for the program. In 3 seasons, he has beaten Steve Spurrier twice. But Stoops has also shown judgment issues at times, and I actually think he panicked during the Vandy game. Stoops has never been a head coach before he came to Kentucky, and the mistakes he has made are evidence of inexperience in the head coaching position. The question you should be asking is about Stoops' learning curve as the head guy, not whether he has what it takes to be the head guy. Another very important question is whether Stoops and Gran will push forward with Drew Barker as their starting quarterback, or whether they will bring in another starter. Because, if Kentucky's offense doesn't become more productive pretty quickly under Gran, Stoops will be finished at Kentucky.
Hey Stoops is our coach for now. Support him, and if he can't get it done in the next 2-4 years Kentucky will get another coach. Nothing really lost in 62 years, so be patient, climb aboard, and buy those tickets.
bill bellichick had a 36-44 record at his first hc'ing gig. pete carroll went 6-10 in his first season and was fired. his next stop he got worse every year he was there. he had a 33-31 record overall.
none of us know if stoops is the man yet or not but we do know he's gonna be here 2 more years. now we can choose to make the next 2 years toxic and if stoops doesn't work out we will have another total rebuild on our hands or we can support or at least not try to rip things apart so that if a new staff does come in in '18 we have some talent for them to work with and some level of support. we all want a winner and it's not happening as fast as any of want. i hope stoops is the man but i dont know and neither does anyone else. we'll know by '17 if he can get it done here or not.
none of us know if stoops is the man yet or not but we do know he's gonna be here 2 more years. now we can choose to make the next 2 years toxic and if stoops doesn't work out we will have another total rebuild on our hands or we can support or at least not try to rip things apart so that if a new staff does come in in '18 we have some talent for them to work with and some level of support. we all want a winner and it's not happening as fast as any of want. i hope stoops is the man but i dont know and neither does anyone else. we'll know by '17 if he can get it done here or not.
I have learned that our fan base is very polarized. There is an element that just wants to win, an element that just wants to complain, and an element that just wants to drink. The toxic people will not change. They are what they are, and the internet has given them a forum. That's why there is an ignore prompt.
You may have it right, there is also a bunch of us oldtimers who just want to see UK football be decent for a couple of years to start with and build off that. The problem is we are running out of time, I would like to still be alive when that happens.
We had a chance to go in that direction this year but Stoops or Dawson or the divided locker room or a witch doctor somewhere blew it. We had the right schedule, the right spacing of games and (most importantly) enough talent to win 6 games yet here we sit waiting for next year.
I still hope and think Stoops has a shot to get us going in the right direction, but he is down to his last shot. Three years in we should have been better this past season, folks can window dress it, spin it or justify it any way they like but the bottom line is we missed the mark last season.
I fit in two, maybe all three, of these categories. I want to win and drink. At times, I drink and just want to complain.
I do think that people that want a coach to win here in 3 years are short sited. It reminds me of the Cleveland Browns. They fired Marty Schottenheimer because he couldn't get to the Super Bowl. They fired Bill Belichick because he didn't win fast enough there. They fired Butch Davis for not winning fast enough. All those guys move on and do well. He is recruiting well enough for UK to be patient with him.
I agree with you, but I'm sure we all hope that he can succeed. Personally, would like to have had someone who had at least been a head coach somewhere before. Experience like that is very important. We have seen how much it matters.
OMG! Point for point, everything you've stated, I've felt or stated on this very board my self. Yes! We all truly wants Stoops to succeed at UK. But in reality, what's going on at UK is a $3M+ a year HC Intern Program. As long as we all recognize that he is a HC in training and can give him time, I think in time Stoops will be successful at UK. Again, I really enjoyed reading your post!
How much time do you think is appropriate? 6-8 yrs? By then another contract would have to be given and what would that contract look like?
who would you rather beat vandy or south carolina? beating vandy says nothing been there done that,however spurrier had our number until stoops came
in ANY case HC in training whatever you want to agendasize it I feel comfortable knowing that HE knows more about coaching and runnung a program than any FAN or POSTER on this site does.
I just want to win. I've not given up on Stoops yet, but I am deflated right now. He's gonna be here two more years, like it or not, so I'm gonna support him.
I still think Stoops is here as long as MB is. MB doesn't get a another fire of a football coach. They either make it together or leave together.
I still think Stoops is here as long as MB is. MB doesn't get a another fire of a football coach. They either make it together or leave together.
how about both? They were both awful last season and we could only beat SC with 5 wins. Not good. Not good at all.
I agree stoops decision making is about as atrocious as it gets when it comes to head coaching at the D1 level. One of the worst in game coaches I've ever seen as far as decision making goes. Dawson had to go though even though he only had one year he was a horrible play caller at best and there was no reason to prolong his career here given the fact stoops realized how horrible of a hire he made.
I do believe barker has a million times more potential than towles and I believe the staff finally sees the same thing. Not going to act like barker won the job by performance, he won it by default because of the fact towles is an absolute trash QB. We know what we were getting with towles he's been the starter for 2 years. He just concluded his 4th year here, as a 4th year junior he threw a decent amount more picks than touchdowns and still to this day chops his feet as if his life depended on how fast he can chop his feet. With towles we're getting a trash QB that gives us zero chance to win at the big stage. It's time to try and develop another QB and see what he can do because of the simple fact towles was hot garbage and it was beyond past time to move on. Couldn't be happier to see him gone I did not want see him take another snap at this university. Just a flat out horrible quarterback.
And I'm not totally sure stoops anointed barker the starter until after towles transferred. Likely was going to be another Qb battle and I'm guessing towles wanted to go somewhere for his senior year where he would for sure be the starter instead of competing for the spot. Could be wrong just an educated guess. But I'd assume if towles had a much better spring than barker then he wouldve started next season (very hypothetical situation. I think him staying would've been a disaster considering how awful of a QB he is). But as I said If he had a much better spring then he would've probably been the starter next season. I highly doubt stoops named the starter for next season right after the last game until after towles transferred. Just really doubt that happened. But as I said could be wrong nothing would surprise me with stoops.
I know, I know, barker made some poor decisions as an 18 year old, God forbid an 18 year old make mistakes. Let's judge his character based off those mistake you all! Who wants to join? To hell with 18 year olds that make very immature youthful silly mistakes in life.
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I would take leach and brohm over stoops in a heartbeat. I don't care how much passion stoops has for the game. His in game coaching, in game adjustments, and decision making is as bad as I've ever seen at this level of football. He can recruit. From what I've seen his abilities start and end at recruiting. In game coaching? Name a coach that was worse? I can't think of one. Phillips sucked yes but he had no talent. I truly think if Phillips had this talent he would've done a much better job than stoops did. Problem is joker brought in poopoo talent so no matter how well he can coach can't win with no players. Same can be said vice versa. No matter how good the players are you're not gonna do much with them without good coaching when you're in the SEC. Granted you have a better chance with good players and trash coaching, it just won't get it done. You need both at this level. He can recruit. But I've seen absolutely nothing on the field to suggest that he can coach.
I agree. I've been watching UK football since the 50's. Like many on this board, I've witnessed some atrocious UK football teams. However, I've never seen a worse UK coach when it comes to in game coaching decisions. The Vanderbilt game was the high water mark or low water mark, depending on how you want to characterize it for Stoops' game coaching ineptness. Likewise, Stoops has yet to demonstrate that he can make necessary half time adjustments while coaches' of the teams we face are able to do so, (to the extent they need to make any adjustments) Painfully, as a UK fan, Louisville's coach certainly made appropriate halftime adjustments during the last game of this past season.
We have better talent than we had under Joker but is Stoops making the best use of the talent he is recruiting?
Now, we have our third offensive coordinator in what will be the most important year of Mark Stoops' coaching career. I just listened to former UK quarterback Reese Phillips' comments on WLAP's Sunday morning sports call in program. Reece said he was pleased to hear that UK's new offensive coordinator would be the "assistant head coach for offense" and that he would be exclusively responsible for calling the offensive plays. Reece tactfully stated that while Stoops' did know about the offense, he was "still learning how to be a head coach" and that UK would benefit by having someone with more offensive coaching skills would run the offense. It was clear from what Reece said that he believed Stoops' involvement in the offense had not been a good thing.
Between now and September, UK fans will once again hold out the proverbial "hope" that the latest change in assistant coaches will be the panacea for curing UK's football misfortunes. "Hopefully", this time it works but pardon me if I have my doubts.
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Alot of young or first time head coaches usually recruit an elite QB that will be good enough to mask the coaches flaws while he is in the process of getting things in his program rolling. Look at how Teddy made Strong look while he was here at UL. You can also look at how Manziel made Sumlin look when he first got to aTm. Look at both of them now that they don't have those top flight qb's, they look no better than Stoops imo. Petrino isn't a new or young coach but he definitely hasn't coached well this season and he hasn't really put together a good Oline but with Lamar jackson so many of our deficiencies get overlooked because of his play at QB and the many threats he pose. Stoops just doesn't have the luxury of having that type of guy running his offense but once he does I believe he will roll.
Someone literally called me retarded the other day and a bunch of other fans (stoops apologists) backed him up on it saying I was retarded for thinking stoops was in any way shape or form involved with the offense and telling me it was the dumbest thing they've ever read on this board and they were saying he wasn't involved in the offense in any way and I just couldn't believe my eyes. I seriously just couldn't believe how dumb some of our 'fans' are to go as far as calling me a retard for something I know I was right and know they were wrong about. And I get called a troll all the time for not thinking stoops is the best coach UK could've gotten and for not being all in with him. Apparently just because I think our coach is trash it means I'm not a UK fan to some. So I guess if you're not naive then you're not a UK fan.
He's simply an atrocious head coach that can recruit. And yes I agree this is by far the worst in game coaching I've ever seen in my entire life week to week when it comes to adjusting and in game decisions. The vandy game where we ran the ball 3 straight plays out of the shotgun from the one yard line was as bad of a decision I've ever seen and it alone is the sole reason we didn't go bowling. It was just as bad as the Seahawks not handing lynch the ball maybe even a worse decision just with way lower stakes. Not comparing the 2 because the stakes were way different but as far as horrible decision making the 2 situations do compare. Difference is carol is a legend and stoops is a coach who consistently makes woeful decisions like that (he may have not called those plays but if he didn't like the play call he can and will veto it, but he didn't he just let it happen).