Downgrade

[JonathanW2]

List the players retained that improved under Pope. List the players that didn't. I think you can at least see the concern that Moreno doesn't take a noticeable step forward. Plus, the S&C isn't exactly setting the world on fire and that was probably MM's biggest hurdle. If he looks the same in his uniform in year two as he did year one, it's an issue. I'm not ready to say definitively one way or the other, but again, that's more of a sign of coaching incompetence than anything.

I'm not looking up his players at past schools. Although I do think Robinson and Saunders did improve under him at BYU.
At UK Oweh was about the same, but he significantly improved from Okl to UK, and I think he basically hit his ceiling last year.
Garrison was about the same, his rebounding improved slightly, but overall still no real improvement.
Chandler did improve.
Noah no improvement, but maybe he is at his ceiling.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

There were games where BG was quite good, but also many games where he was bad or basically invisible. BG was a BAD rebounder both seasons at UK.
Do I think Potter will be as good as BG? Probably not. But I do think it is possible for him to be like Handlogten was for UF, and close to BG level

Your optimism is impressive. Just look at Potter in a uniform. Then look at Handlogten in a uniform. Then watch them move. Zero doubt in my mind Handlogten is at bare minimum 50% stronger than Potter and infinitely more athletic. That dude can move. He's an insane rebounder and shot blocker. He can't shoot to save himself though. Honestly, the comparison between he and Potter stop and very tall and Caucasian.

 

[JonathanW2]

He also "dropped"...

• 11 points on High Point
• 10 points on N. Iowa
• 10 points on Ohio Christian
• 8 points on Elon
• 5 points on Bob Jones
• 8 points on Chattanooga
• 7 points on Mercer
• 8 points on VMI
• 8 points on the Citadel

That's my point. A squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. He could be good. He could also be extremely average, at best.

Ansley Almonor's per 40 average his last two seasons at FDU weren't far from Wilkins numbers last year at Furman...with about the same level of competition. Try to process that sentence.

Almonor could score for UK. Problem was he was a defensive and rebounding liability.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

I'm not looking up his players at past schools. Although I do think Robinson and Saunders did improve under him at BYU.
At UK Oweh was about the same, but he significantly improved from Okl to UK, and I think he basically hit his ceiling last year.
Garrison was about the same, his rebounding improved slightly, but overall still no real improvement.
Chandler did improve.
Noah no improvement, but maybe he is at his ceiling.

Sorry again. I suck at wording. Again. Just meant UK.

 

[JonathanW2]

Your optimism is impressive. Just look at Potter in a uniform. Then look at Handlogten in a uniform. Then watch them move. Zero doubt in my mind Handlogten is at bare minimum 50% stronger than Potter and infinitely more athletic. That dude can move. He's an insane rebounder and shot blocker. He can't shoot to save himself though. Honestly, the comparison between he and Potter stop and very tall and Caucasian.

I'm comparing Potter now to Handlogten the summer he got to UF.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

Almonor could score for UK. Problem was he was a defensive and rebounding liability.

He was unplayable against good teams. Would legit have 20 mins in a game and not even show up in the box score. Some games he was just okay. He was the 9th man on a "meh" team...and had pretty close to the same per 40 numbers against pretty much the same level of opponents as the dude some are saying is better than Oweh. However you decide to come to that conclusion, cool. Seems like fools gold to me.

 

[Wildcat4Ever]

Moreno regressed towards the end of the season. Hopefully he will be stronger,quicker and a better ball handler in his sophomore season.

 

[Catphright23]

Couch coach
Zoom>Aberdeen
Watkins= oweh (less turnovers, dribbling off shoe)
Moreno this year> Moreno last year
We aren't finished with roster most kids can give you more than bg, Jasper, jelavic though.

 

[meteordealer]

He also "dropped"...

• 11 points on High Point
• 10 points on N. Iowa
• 10 points on Ohio Christian
• 8 points on Elon
• 5 points on Bob Jones
• 8 points on Chattanooga
• 7 points on Mercer
• 8 points on VMI
• 8 points on the Citadel

That's my point. A squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. He could be good. He could also be extremely average, at best.

Ansley Almonor's per 40 average his last two seasons at FDU weren't far from Wilkins numbers last year at Furman...with about the same level of competition. Try to process that sentence.

You clearly missed my point. Someone implied that Wilkins isnt capable of putting up good numbers against UK caliber competition, because he plays for Furman. He dropped 21 on the National Runner up.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

I'm comparing Potter now to Handlogten the summer he got to UF.

Just by looking at the bodies on the Florida kids and the bodies on the UK kids...yeah, I think you get to where I'm going. Golden is a stone cold killer. Dudes don't perform in the weight room for him, I'd imagine there's a price to pay. Pope probably hands out orange slices and juice boxes after a workout.

 

[Wildcat_in_DC]

I didn't think it was possible, but I think we have a downgrade at every starting position.
Zoom<Aberdeen
Wilkins<Oweh
Kam<Chandler
Mcbride<Mo
Moreno=Moreno

Zoom has 2 years of playing PG over aberdeen. no reason to think this isnt equal

90% of the fans hated oweh and blamed him for everything. millions of posts wanting him gone and anyone would be better than him so....

kam is better defender, rebounder, and does more offensively than chandler. and still shot 36% from three. i'll take the more complete player

moreno year 2 > moreno year 1....every one here all the time talks about players getting better year over year. well....

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

No. A teenager would say a player sucks, because he plays for a smaller school. Like the poster i was originally replying to.


Based on that logic, Oweh is probably better than Steph Curry and Larry Bird.

I mean, I said the roster sucks...and it does. There's not much arguing there.

He doesn't suck because he played at Furman. But, for the SEC and UK, he also doesn't not suck because he "dropped 21 on UConn". If for nothing else, that's called a small sample size.

At 16 I hit a HR off of a guy that pitched in the majors for a long, long time and had quite a successful career. I was, at best, an average HS hitter. Barely good enough to stay in our good lineup. I caught lightening in a bottle...or more appropriately he threw a really hard first pitch fastball that supplied the majority of the velocity after my barrel got in the way of it. He could be good, or he could just get hot every once in a while.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

You clearly missed my point. Someone implied that Wilkins isnt capable of putting up good numbers against UK caliber competition, because he plays for Furman. He dropped 21 on the National Runner up.

Well sure he's capable. Hell, Trent Noah was capable in Knoxville his frosh year. He's also capable of not being good enough because he average about 8 points in those 10 or so games I referenced against some really freaking bad teams.

 

[Anon1776024529]

Junior year Chandler isn’t an option. Also I put Chandler against Wilkins. Oweh was the 3 guard last year.

I know you did. I was talking about some of the responses in this thread

 

[Anon1776024529]

No, you are not comparing apples to apples. This lead post was saying we are downgrading from last year to this year, comparing last season's starters to next season's starters. So then you must compare last year's CC to next year's KW. Of course we don't know how good KW will be next year. We do know is a much better defender than CC. So the best comparison we can make is how good CC was the year before this past season (his FR year) to how good KW was the year before next season (his Soph yr).

The best comparison would be sophomore kam vs sophomore Colin. And give me Colin 100/100 times. Even with the bad defense.

 

[Padsfs07]

Maybe I misspoke. I'm good at that according to my wife. I don't word well.

Year1...Under Pope
Year 2...Under Pope

Players that got better?

Players that didn't?

Only 4 right? Oweh got better. His usage went up, but I think he handled it well. His shooting dipped some, but I think that was the PG drop off and not having guys like Robinson and Brea next to him.

Definitely Chandler and definitely not Garrison. Noah is neutral imo.

Edit: Garrison kind of was the same actually. He didn't get better at anything, but rebounding, and dropped off on scoring and passing.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

Only 4 right? Oweh got better. His usage went up, but I think he handled it well. His shooting dipped some, but I think that was the PG drop off and not having guys like Robinson and Brea next to him.

Definitely Chandler and definitely not Garrison. Noah is neutral imo.

To be honest, I don't even know. But that sounds correct. Chandler for sure got better. I think Oweh, BG and Noah were washes. Idk if they got worse, but they didn't get better either.

 

[Rosie66]

Maybe I suppose, but I could see us being below 500 this year.

That's what you said about last year.

 

[gtown965]

I'd hire you over Mitch any day lmao

 

[KYFOSSIL]

lol that’s some massive homerism to think Wilkins is or could be better than Oweh. That kid will get broken doing things Oweh did

He shoots better than Owehp a did so he won't have to do the stupid stuff that he did. Not to mention he's a much better playmaker.

 

[Tim0808]

Unlike other teams, only UK players never improve.

Signed,

RR board

Signed Mark Pope

 

[Farsight Clone]

I've been on this board since 2011 and you're a new name here. I've known jed on here for years.

 

[anot]

Based on what? Kam barely played here.

Potential. Ceiling is higher.

 

[KentuckyMildCats]

i disagree i think just having two guys who can dribble the ball is an upgrade to whatever we had last year, it depends on how we finish the roster to really make a judgement though.

 

[KyKevin]

our potential backup Center may be better than Brandon Garrison

I would hope so, if he played hard for 4 games, he would have BG beat.

 

[20MRoster]

A dude that average equal or less numbers at FURMAN than Owek did at UK. I swear, there's a reason the backup QB is always the best player on a crappy football team. This is the level this board has gotten to, forcing ME to defend freaking Oweh. Unreal.

It's impossible to get through to these people. This upcoming 20 loss season might still not be enough for them to want to move on from Pope.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

A dude that average equal or less numbers at FURMAN than Owek did at UK. I swear, there's a reason the backup QB is always the best player on a crappy football team. This is the level this board has gotten to, forcing ME to defend freaking Oweh. Unreal.

It's impossible to get through to these people. This upcoming 20 loss season might still not be enough for them to want to move on from Pope.

Wilkins was a true freshman though. And had an assist rate that was higher than 30%, which is higher than anyone we have had on a UK roster in over four years. He’s undeniably talented, has elite skills but has some flaws to his game — including his shot selection and perimeter defense. Will he be better than Oweh this year? Maybe not. But I don’t think it’d be a surprise if he is — he’s certainly more dynamic. Go watch him and make up your own mind and see for yourself.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Who knows man. Aberdeen was pure trash for half the season, so Zoom will be absolutely better than he was to start.

Outside of Lowe last year no one could dribble and think at the same time. Can this year’s team at least move without the ball and dribble?

Wilkins can score more dynamically than Oweh, but can he hit two free throws in a row and finish layups?

He shot 82.4% from the line last season.

 

[RunninRichie]

Let it ride! Those of us who know the sport and the goings on around it, warned everyone as early as last late December, we were headed for this situation if Pope was retained for another season!

We pleaded, we begged for people on the fence to listen, but in the end, the portion of the fan base who don’t give two chits about the future of the program, and only support the coach because he represents the underdog, got what they wanted…

Well, I want you all to watch every damn second of every game next season, as you remember, this is what you wanted, so I hope you all enjoy watching your underdog coach get humiliated for 15+ games!

I’ll be watching real basketball being played down I-64, until this 3 Ring Circus called UK MBB gets sorted out, and back on track…

If the damage done, isn’t too insurmountable

You’ll be watching Louisville?

 

[#1 cat fan]

I didn't think it was possible, but I think we have a downgrade at every starting position.
Zoom<Aberdeen
Wilkins<Oweh
Kam<Chandler
Mcbride<Mo
Moreno=Moreno

Well if would be a good start to get the position right
No we don't
Zoom is every bit as good as Aberdeen
And wilkins is night and day compared to Chandler

 

[#1 cat fan]

Crazy how all this changes with 1 guy possibly coming here

 

[JonathanW2]

You clearly missed my point. Someone implied that Wilkins isnt capable of putting up good numbers against UK caliber competition, because he plays for Furman. He dropped 21 on the National Runner up.

And it's already been proven many times the past 4 years that players from even low-majors can be very good high-major players.
The problem is when you take a guy who was just "ok" at a low/mid-major and expect him to be "ok" or better at a high-major.

The best comparison would be sophomore kam vs sophomore Colin. And give me Colin 100/100 times. Even with the bad defense.

I'm sorry that ANON#### is not intelligent enough to understand the concept of comparative analysis.
Let me try to dumb it down for you.
This thread was trying to compare 25-26 UK roster to 26-27 UK (potential) roster. Thus you have to compare how the players play(ed) in 25-26 to 26-27. Of course 26-27 hasn't happened yet, so that's not possible. Thus the best comparison we can make is to the season prior ("how good were the players coming into that season"). Chandler's season prior to 25-26 was his FR year, and Kam's season prior to 26-27 was his Soph yr.

 

[JonathanW2]

He was unplayable against good teams. Would legit have 20 mins in a game and not even show up in the box score. Some games he was just okay. He was the 9th man on a "meh" team...and had pretty close to the same per 40 numbers against pretty much the same level of opponents as the dude some are saying is better than Oweh. However you decide to come to that conclusion, cool. Seems like fools gold to me.

He was only "unplayable" because of his lack of defense (& rebounding from the 4 spot). His offense was good or at least solid.

The only games he played 20min (even >18min) were:
12pt in 24 min vs GaSt
11pt in 19min vs MissSt
10pt in 19min vs Alab
12pt in 24 min vs Vandy
12pt in 30min vs UT
12pt in 25min vs Ark
0pt in 24min vs USC
13pt in 22min vs UT
11pt in 23min vs Tex
15pt in 19min vs LSU
So in 9 of the 10 games he played 18+min he scored in double digits, and 9 of those 10 games were in SEC games. So you are WRONG on that claim!

On the season Almonor made 76% of his 2's, 42% of his 3's, 91% of his FTs. Yeah he sucked (sarcasm).

And that "meh" team was pretty good (top 10) when healthy, and even won some big games over highly ranked teams when not healthy.

I'm not saying Wilkins is or will be better than Oweh, I clearly said Wilkins is more multi-dimensional than Oweh, and he might be a little worse, or the same, or possibly (but probably not) a little better.

 

[AllBall]

Let it ride! Those of us who know the sport and the goings on around it, warned everyone as early as last late December, we were headed for this situation if Pope was retained for another season!

We pleaded, we begged for people on the fence to listen, but in the end, the portion of the fan base who don’t give two chits about the future of the program, and only support the coach because he represents the underdog, got what they wanted…

Well, I want you all to watch every damn second of every game next season, as you remember, this is what you wanted, so I hope you all enjoy watching your underdog coach get humiliated for 15+ games!

I’ll be watching real basketball being played down I-64, until this 3 Ring Circus called UK MBB gets sorted out, and back on track…

If the damage done, isn’t too insurmountable

Pope has lost 26 games in two seasons and 14 of those by double digits. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Anon1776024529]

Pope has lost 26 games in two seasons and 14 of those by double digits. What could possibly go wrong?

Let Jonathan W2 explain to you how losing only 26 gajes was actually awesome and you are just too dumb to realize it.

 

[JonathanW2]

Let Jonathan W2 explain to you how losing only 26 gajes was actually awesome and you are just too dumb to realize it.

Man you are really butthurt that I pointed out how stupid you were for trying to make an orange to tangerine comparison.

 

[Rainmaker]

I know I’ve heard so many people talk about PKs amazing job in the portal at little brother. Here’s the current roster they have.
Pg: 6’1 Shelstad/ 6’3 Johnson
Sg: 6’5 Montgomery/ 6’4 Woolley
Sf: 6’6 Knox
Pf: 6’10 Folgueiras
C: 6’9 Bidunga/ 7’5 Dynes

Is anyone afraid of that roster? I know I’m not and I believe our starting 5 is better top to bottom. I know both teams have several spots to fill still but why currently is the perception PK is crushing it and we are the laughing stock? It’s simply a narrative. Sure we could have and should have done better to this point but it’s not the madness we’ve made it out to be as a fanbase.