Dudy Noble Field

[bullythisblackbear]

I know there's been a lot of talk about DNF and how bad it is and I agree it is bad and we need a whole new stadium. Most of you are too young to know just how bad it was before the current facility was built. If you wanted a seat you had to get there 3 hours before gametime and then pick splinters out of your azz for 6 hours.
You had to go to the Hump to go to the bathroom. You had a tiny concession stand behind the metal roof grandstand that everytime a foul ball hit it it sounded like a gunshot going off. Jim Ellis used to broadcast the games at ground level behind home plate protected only by chicken wire. Damndest thing I ever saw. That's why Ron Polk came within days of leaving State in 1985 if he didn't get a new facility. This junk we have now was built on the cheap to keep Polk there.

Stricklin doesn't want to talk about DNF right now because he doesn't have the money to build a lsu type stadium. Just look at the softball mess.
We had to cancel hosting the sec tournament next year because we didn't have the money to build a softball stadium which was promised to the coaches.

I think Stricklin dropped the ball the last few years by not borrowing money when interest rates were at historic lows. I will say this baseball players have never come to State because of facilities or money. They come because of the fans. Make no mistake about that. Just my opinion.

 

[Hanmudog]

"Bad" is a bit over the top. It is still a great venue for baseball. Dudy-Noble does not need to be completely torn down but it does need a facelift and an expansion of chair back seating down both base lines as well as some cosmetic upgrades.

 

[thatsbaseball]

I was thinking the same thing

 

[drummerdawg]

Just about everything I've read on our baseball recruits, they talk about our coaches and facilities being big factors on why they chose us.

 

[YardBarker]

Dudy-Noble was built cheaply, as was everything back in the Templeton era. I'm in favor of renovating existing stadiums but I think in this particular case you just can't save it. I would rather start over on everything other than the outfield. I also don't want a $30 million stadium to match Bama, I want to do $40-$50 million and make it the nicest in the country. Scott is afraid to the spend money it seems...borrow.

 

[Wicked Pissah]

Why dont we start a baseball fundraising campaign like ole miss did for basketball and football?

 

[dawgphd]

What I have been told from someone I consider an insider.

1. No tear down and rebuild.
2. Left field lounge will be "rethought".
3. Best guess is between 1 - 2 years away from announcing anything.

 

[godlluB]

What I have been told from someone I consider an insider.


2. Left field lounge will be "rethought".

Uh oh. There's no way that will be good news. LFL is what it is BECAUSE it was never "thought" in the first place. It just happened.

There's almost nothing they can do to it that won't make it worse with the exception of a little sculpting of the hill on the right field side that would make it easier to get the trailers in, and possibly deeper and high enough at the rear to allow a second row along the back fence.

But I'm pretty confident they'll just screw it up.

 

[YardBarker]

What I have been told from someone I consider an insider.

1. No tear down and rebuild.
2. Left field lounge will be "rethought".
3. Best guess is between 1 - 2 years away from announcing anything.

I'll go ahead and tell you, if Scott screws this up he will lose a lot of supporters and maybe eventually his job. If he thinks people are passionate about uniforms...wait until he screws up left field lounge.

 

[Wicked Pissah]

Unfortunately, I think you heard mostly right.

 

[RocketDawg]

If you think it was bad then, imagine how it was in the 60s. I only went to a game or two (wasn't a big thing at all then), but as I recall it was just some wooden bleachers between the bases.

Unless my memory is totally in the tank, I went to a game when we played the Bears (were called "Rebels" then) when Archie Manning played for them.

 

[godlluB]

Archie played baseball too?!

 

[Faustdog]

That's why Ron Polk came within days of leaving State in 1985 if he didn't get a new facility. This junk we have now was built on the cheap to keep Polk there.

I disagree with this part completely. Yes, the main grandstands aren't as nice as many of the others in the conference in 2013. But when it was built it was top notch for the conference. No one, including LSU, was spending the money at the time that we did on Dudy Noble. It's fair to say that we didn't spend money over the following years to keep the stadium up to date, but to say that we didn't do it better than anyone else in 1986 just isn't accurate. It wasn't until the 2000's that you could say Dudy Noble was actually falling behind.

 

[Crazy Dawg]

Scott will be stoned to death if he 17s LFL up! He CAN'T possibly be stupid enough to do anything between the foul polls to jeopardize it. I don't see any major changes to LFL. If so I will be heartbroken. Please don't let this happen.

 

[biguglyjoe]

Rethought = more $$$ demanded for the privilege of being there.

 

[Hanmudog]

Dudy-Noble was built cheaply, as was everything back in the Templeton era. I'm in favor of renovating existing stadiums but I think in this particular case you just can't save it. I would rather start over on everything other than the outfield. I also don't want a $30 million stadium to match Bama, I want to do $40-$50 million and make it the nicest in the country. Scott is afraid to the spend money it seems...borrow.

What am I missing that makes DudyNoble beyond saving?

There is such a thing as tradition and we don't see teams like Notre Dame or Michigan building new football stadiums. Or Duke building a new basketball arena.

We just need to upgrade and expand what we have.

 

[Tito Cheeseburger]

Lfl rethink backlash would be "Obama is coming for our guns" level.

Right?

 

[J-Dawg]

What am I missing that makes DudyNoble beyond saving?

There is such a thing as tradition and we don't see teams like Notre Dame or Michigan building new football stadiums. Or Duke building a new basketball arena.

We just need to upgrade and expand what we have.

Bingo.

 

[engie]

What am I missing that makes DudyNoble beyond saving?

There is such a thing as tradition and we don't see teams like Notre Dame or Michigan building new football stadiums. Or Duke building a new basketball arena.

We just need to upgrade and expand what we have.

Yet you see -- literally everybody -- tearing down and rebuilding new baseball stadiums. Ok -- the Cubs didn't -- they are spending $500 mil renovating -- and Fenway has been under constant renovation for a decade now... Everyone else has seen fit to build anew.
LSU? Start over.
South Carolina? Start over.
Kentucky? About to start over.
Alabama? Basically starting over
Arkansas? First stadium built on a modern design in the late 90s -- as such, it's modular and expanded almost yearly.
Ole Miss and aTm underwent "renovations" at > 2/3 the cost of building anew. These will prove to be mistakes over the longterm I believe.

I contend that there is no "tradition" held in the concrete of a grandstand -- but in the people that fill the seats.

As far as it being "beyond saving", I'm guessing you haven't watched a game from the bleachers in a very long time. There is no aesthetically pleasing way to build down the lines with decent sightlines -- because of the angle that the DNF grandstand was initially built. You either have a crick in your neck sitting down there -- or you turn your whole body and look "through" the person sitting next to you. I contend that the sightlines from those bleachers KILL the amount of people that actually show up to games...

Here is what I mean. This is compared to Sewell Thomas, who Alabama is basically razing to the ground and starting over to the tune of $30 mil(proving that Bama ALREADY had a better base to build from than DNF -- at least from a sightlines perspective -- since they can "angle in" seating down the lines and we really can't)...

 

[Hanmudog]

We will agree to disagree then.

By the way I have been a baseball season ticket holder for years now and have seen plenty of games there and never had an issue with sight lines.

Maybe when State wins a couple of national titles in football like Bama then we will have money like Bama.

Ps: MSU is arguably the only baseball program in America known as much for its stadium/field. Tearing it down instead of renovating and remodeling would be taking away the one good thing that we have at MSU.

 

[patdog]

There is such a thing as tradition and we don't see teams like Notre Dame or Michigan building new football stadiums. Or Duke building a new basketball arena.

That's because nobody builds a completely new football stadium. It's easy to just add on to and renovate what you already have. As for basketball, tradition didn't stop North Carolina from building a new arena in 1986. Or Louisville a couple of years ago. Engie is right. Dudy Noble has some real fundamental problems in the way it was designed. It can be improved and renovated to the point it would be a pretty good facility. But the only way to get a top notch facility would be to tear it down and start over. As for tradition, the current Dudy Noble Field isn't even 30 years old. It's not something sacred that couldn't be replaced with a new and better Dudy Noble Field.

 

[Bud.sixpack]

I get the feeling Scott is LT jumior, with a media savvy smoke screen.

I believe Burn would have already done something about DNF, and I know that the football expansion would have already been completed. All the athletic facility projects that are in construction or have recently been completed were initiated by Burn.

Hope I'm wrong about Scott.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

We will agree to disagree then.

By the way I have been a baseball season ticket holder for years now and have seen plenty of games there and never had an issue with sight lines.

Maybe when State wins a couple of national titles in football like Bama then we will have money like Bama.

Ps: MSU is arguably the only baseball program in America known as much for its stadium/field. Tearing it down instead of renovating and remodeling would be taking away the one good thing that we have at MSU.

Exactly, you are a season ticket holder in the grandstand; you have no idea how difficult it is for State to draw new fans when the only place you can sit without having a connection in the grandstand or LFL is the bleachers. And the simple fact, as Engie points out, is we can't just expand chair backs down the lines, because those people won't be able to see anything due to the sight lines. The view of the field is probably great where you sit, but that doesn't mean it's great for everyone who doesn't have season tickets in the grandstand.

We all heard many of the same complaints from LSU fans before they moved in to New Alex Box, but you won't find anyone complaining anymore. We also have a leg up on LSU in this department considering almost all of our allure and tradition is in the LFL (and we can all agree that the LFL should be left alone), so building a new grandstand will not in any way hurt our tradition. It's not like the current grandstand is some ancient artifact that is the key to our baseball tradition: It's just a 25 year old piece of concrete that is a poorly designed and can't really be expanded upon without there being serious problems.

 

[Bud.sixpack]

I don't know if it's possible, but why not go up instead of down the base lines.

A second deck with suites between would be unique to college baseball.

Also, I think LFL lounge should be limited to left field. There are alot of people that don't have friends with a trailer, but would still like to be in the outfield. If there are trailers all the way around, there will be no where for them to go. Maybe a bigger burm would help?

 

[engie]

Also, I think LFL lounge should be limited to left field. There are alot of people that don't have friends with a trailer, but would still like to be in the outfield. If there are trailers all the way around, there will be no where for them to go. Maybe a bigger burm would help?

I think the solution here is to slightly limit LFL height in right field -- and build berms behind them. We are in desperate need of a dedicated student/alumni section. For a school that prides itself in being "The People's University", it's always been strange to me how "exclusive" Dudy Noble is.

 

[engie]

We will agree to disagree then.

By the way I have been a baseball season ticket holder for years now and have seen plenty of games there and never had an issue with sight lines.

Maybe when State wins a couple of national titles in football like Bama then we will have money like Bama.

Ps: MSU is arguably the only baseball program in America known as much for its stadium/field. Tearing it down instead of renovating and remodeling would be taking away the one good thing that we have at MSU.

What other SEC venues have you visited in the past 5 years? When was the last time you watched a game at MSU from the bleachers?

I've got season tickets -- have an open invitation to a skybox outside of SBW and postseason play -- and have free reign on two lounges. I still remember the issues I went through before though. And if it came to sitting in the bleachers today -- I would literally listen on the radio. I'm betting that I'm just one of thousands..I can remember what it was like in college when I didn't know anybody yet and had to sit in those bleachers for half the game -- while looking at a comfortable, empty grandstand right beside me. Nevermind how this limits season ticket sales overall.

LSU was known for Alex Box. Yet they started over. If they can, we can. What magic, exactly, is held in concrete? I've yet to see anyone answer that question... What attachment do people feel to a shoddily designed stadium? The fact is -- they are projecting the attachment they have to the PEOPLE that make a stadium great onto something else.

The fact that LSU has JUST done this with great success is literally all we need to know about it -- considering that in my mind, they are our ONLY long-term peer in college baseball.

Why do you assume that these stadiums are being built as football charity cases? Why is no one building $30mil softball complexes then? Fact is -- in the SEC -- these schools are ONLY building these palaces to make money on them. And make no mistake, they ARE making money on them. Here's what the charity case in Baton Rouge pulls down every year now. Keeping in mind that they have a waiting list for season tickets and are expanding yearly -- especially in the premium areas(these modern design stadiums are modular and allow skyboxes to be added in a single offseason with ease...

Tiger Suits(27 of them) - $40,000 each
Champions Club(200 seats) - $2350 each
Tiger Terrace(96 seats) - $3000 each

That's before the donations to be eligible for the premium seating -- before concessions -- and before alcohol PURCHASE in the premium levels...

Now -- just how much money do you think we are leaving on the table with the current prices and design limitations of Dudy Noble?

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

What other SEC venues have you visited in the past 5 years? When was the last time you watched a game at MSU from the bleachers?

I've got season tickets -- have an open invitation to a skybox outside of SBW and postseason play -- and have free reign on two lounges. I still remember the issues I went through before though. And if it came to sitting in the bleachers today -- I would literally listen on the radio. I'm betting that I'm just one of thousands..I can remember what it was like in college when I didn't know anybody yet and had to sit in those bleachers for half the game -- while looking at a comfortable, empty grandstand right beside me. Nevermind how this limits season ticket sales overall.

LSU was known for Alex Box. Yet they started over. If they can, we can. What magic, exactly, is held in concrete? I've yet to see anyone answer that question... What attachment do people feel to a shoddily designed stadium? The fact is -- they are projecting the attachment they have to the PEOPLE that make a stadium great onto something else.

The fact that LSU has JUST done this with great success is literally all we need to know about it -- considering that in my mind, they are our ONLY long-term peer in college baseball.

Why do you assume that these stadiums are being built as football charity cases? Why is no one building $30mil softball complexes then? Fact is -- in the SEC -- these schools are ONLY building these palaces to make money on them. And make no mistake, they ARE making money on them. Here's what the charity case in Baton Rouge pulls down every year now. Keeping in mind that they have a waiting list for season tickets and are expanding yearly -- especially in the premium areas(these modern design stadiums are modular and allow skyboxes to be added in a single offseason with ease...

Tiger Suits(27 of them) - $40,000 each
Champions Club(200 seats) - $2350 each
Tiger Terrace(96 seats) - $3000 each

That's before the donations to be eligible for the premium seating -- before concessions -- and before alcohol PURCHASE in the premium levels...

Now -- just how much money do you think we are leaving on the table with the current prices and design limitations of Dudy Noble?

Exactly. People who argue for renovation say that our lack of money is an issue. Well, I'd argue that we are losing tons of money by NOT tearing down and starting over. There's no way for us to generate our maximum amounts of revenue without rebuilding the grandstand because of A) all the untapped money in premium seating left on the table and B) the lifetime contracts that don't require annual donations to keep their seats.

If we have to borrow some money to do this, so be it. We will easily pay it all back and then some over time with all the additional revenue we'd be getting. Raise all we can, use some SEC Network money, and borrow the rest. It will be well worth the investment.

You borrow money when you start a business because of the potential to make more money in the future. Why is this any different?

 

[00Dawg]

NM

NM

 

[Heawww]

^^ This. It's still a Top 5 stadium.

This decision can wait. And by decision, I mean, should be renovate DNF or build a new stadium. We need to win a national championship before we start talking about spending 30 mil on either one.

In the meantime, we need to find a way to get more students in there. I've been saying for years to make RF a giant tailgate area with terracing instead of the bleachers.

 

[Hanmudog]

Hey to each his own.

I know our fans though. Everyone is hot to trot and wants to tear down Dudy Noble and build a nice new stadium but the first time Cohen blows a midweek game our fans will **** bricks and stay home.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

^^ This. It's still a Top 5 stadium.

This decision can wait. And by decision, I mean, should be renovate DNF or build a new stadium. We need to win a national championship before we start talking about spending 30 mil on either one.

In the meantime, we need to find a way to get more students in there. I've been saying for years to make RF a giant tailgate area with terracing instead of the bleachers.

DNF is not a top 5 stadium anymore. I'm sorry, but it's just not. The fact that you call it a top 5 stadium tells me you haven't been to many others around the SEC. USCe, LSU, Arkansas, UM, A&M, and soon to be Alabama all have nicer stadiums than us. Is it a top 5 atmosphere when it's rocking and you've got a good seat? Hell yeah, but we can't attract new fans with the layout of the grandstand.

I do absolutely agree on the RF terrace idea though. We are in desperate need of a student section type thing out there.

 

[00Dawg]

Serious Answer:

Now -- just how much money do you think we are leaving on the table with the current prices and design limitations of Dudy Noble?

Not much.
Our fans are cheap, and before last year there weren't enough fans willing to pay even a small fee to sell out the grandstand.
I'm sure there are some extra skyboxes to be sold, but you can forget instant sell-outs of premium seating from the first.
Continuous winning on the national stage will increase that somewhat, but we can't even sell out our new football premium seating either (granted, some of that is poor planning vs pricing for the initial buy-in).

 

[engie]

Not much.
Our fans are cheap, and before last year there weren't enough fans willing to pay even a small fee to sell out the grandstand.
I'm sure there are some extra skyboxes to be sold, but you can forget instant sell-outs of premium seating from the first.
Continuous winning on the national stage will increase that somewhat, but we can't even sell out our new football premium seating either (granted, some of that is poor planning vs pricing for the initial buy-in).

Say what? You have lost me on 100% of this.

The skyboxes have been sold out at DNF since they were built. There have been zero cancellations. EVER. Since they were built in 98. And you don't think we are leaving money on the table by not having more of them? You don't think we are leaving money on the table by not having a club area?

Nevermind all the big corporations building in West Point and Columbus that we SHOULD be capitalizing on.

We sell 6k SEASON TICKETS every year -- with a 4300 seat grandstand. Where do you get that "we aren't selling it out"?

And the football premium seating? Is that a joke? The loge and skyboxes are sold out and have been for awhile -- for something that doesn't open for another year. You HONESTLY don't think we are going to FULLY sell out the clubs? We've been sold out on premium seating in football for YEARS -- even when we sucked.

So, ultimately, your point of view is woe is us, poor ole MSU -- when I JUST gave you the numbers on the ONLY comparable baseball fanbase in the country -- and just how damn much money they make from rebuilding anew...

 

[engie]

^^ This. It's still a Top 5 stadium.

This decision can wait. And by decision, I mean, should be renovate DNF or build a new stadium. We need to win a national championship before we start talking about spending 30 mil on either one.

In the meantime, we need to find a way to get more students in there. I've been saying for years to make RF a giant tailgate area with terracing instead of the bleachers.

It's a top 5 stadium IN THE SEC WEST. It's not a top 5 stadium in all of college baseball. Not design -- not architecture -- not amenities.

Atmosphere? Sure, we're still close to the top on BIG weekends -- which really is only SBW and the postseason -- because no one wants to go sit in those bleachers(along with the lifetime seats being empty regularly)...

 

[Heawww]

OK, Top 10. But the point is that it's a GREAT place. It helps us in recruiting, not hurts. So why tear it down and spend 30 mil RIGHT NOW? It makes no sense. I honestly don't think we can get significantly more fans than we already have anyway. Ever been to a midweek game?

And no recruit will ever pick Alabama over us due to stadium facilities, even after the remodel. FACT, Jack. Like I said, it's FAR from a hindrance for our baseball programs. It's our insecure fanbase that wants to have the best of the best of the best, just BECAUSE, and without looking at the facts, finances, logistics, etc.

 

[engie]

OK, Top 10. But the point is that it's a GREAT place. It helps us in recruiting, not hurts. So why tear it down and spend 30 mil RIGHT NOW? It makes no sense. I honestly don't think we can get significantly more fans than we already have anyway. Ever been to a midweek game?

A bunch of them. Why do you think it's empty?

And no recruit will ever pick Alabama over us due to stadium facilities, even after the remodel. FACT, Jack.

Your memory is awfully short. Bama has JUST as good of baseball history as we do. Better actually. And they used to pack the house. The stadium and amenities got outdated and people quit going. Sound familiar?

Like I said, it's FAR from a hindrance for our baseball programs. It's our insecure fanbase that wants to have the best of the best of the best, just BECAUSE, and without looking at the facts, finances, logistics, etc.
This is laughable.

In what way is wanting and EXPECTING the BEST in the one sport where we DESERVE the best an "insecurity"? That's goat logic at it's finest.

Why don't you show us that immense goat research into facts, finances, and logistics? You know -- since you are complaining about the lack of that done by others -- when I already showed that LSU is swimming in money FROM their new baseball stadium.


At some point, we've got to decide if we want to BE THE BEST in a sport where we control our own destiny -- or if we're happy being "pretty good".

 

[Macthebulldogfan]

Engie, I wonder if Cohen is satisfied with being "pretty good". I doubt it. I say give him what he needs to take the program to a level we could have only dreamed about 7 years ago.If that includes a new stadium.... Get It Done.

 

[Wicked Pissah]

Actually, our stadium isnt top 10 either. Fyi, alabama is the all time winningest sec baseball program.

Go to alex box or s carolinas stadiums and dnf is a dump. I want to be like lsu and usc. I want to go to omaha every yr and have top notch facilities too. Watching games at alex box are so much more enjoyable than dnf simply because of the setup.

 

[00Dawg]

Let me state first that I speak from personal experience for both baseball and football.
Skyboxes, yes, we can sell more. Other premium seating is a weak maybe. We have not consistently sold out the grandstand seats since we added an annual seat charge. If you wanted grandstand seats prior to this season and were willing to pay the charge, some were available.
Similar deal in football. Skyboxes were almost instantly gone in 2001. We finally sold out the first Club Level around 2008, then later added some interior seats and a facility commitment, and didn't sell those out for several years, although admittedly we weren't trying very hard.
Note that the new end zone seats are the same way. Skyboxes gone, loge seating takes special efforts despite very limited numbers and wasn't sold out as of last month, and the end zone club still has hundreds available.
If we want to build more skyboxes, great. You can do that without a new baseball stadium. Other premium seating, which almost certainly does require a new stadium, is far less of a sure thing, and should not qualify as a reason for a new stadium.

 

[Shadow34]

We desperately need a student section. I hope the the LFL "rethought" theory means you can't have a trailer from the center field wall to the right field foul pole. As much as it pains me to say this, we need something like what Ole Miss has (their left field seating) from right center all the way to the foul pole for students/alumni. If we can do this and get rid of the bleachers and make them chairbacks attached to the grand stand, I don't think we need to build a new DNF. Those two upgrades will (IMO) be huge and make DNF what we all want it to be. It's hard for me to say a ball park or stadium is better than DNF when their attendances are in the double digits and we hold the record for largest crowd ever on a college campus (and continue to break regional attendance records). Having said that, I wouldn't be completely opposed to building a new stadium IF we make it the best one in the nation and no one will compare to it. We have a passion for baseball and it is by far my favorite sport at MSU. Please step up Scott and realize we are a baseball school and we need to spend the money on keeping us a top 5 program in the nation.