Could there be a clearer sign Payne’s the wrong choice?
Dukie V. endorses Payne for job.
- Thread starter BPGhost
- Start date
This just reminds me of Save Ferris it just took off man. I mean I don't know what they should do but it's like everywhere.
That is worrisome because everyone Dickie pushes ends up being a failure.
Remember Dickie V didn’t think Rick should have taken our job. We all know he’s a SuCk homer
Couple things we know with a high degree of certainty is Payne wants the job.
We also know he will improve recruiting. I think NIL is going to break the Nike strangle hold on player placement.
It also apparent people that are in the business believe in Payne. It isn’t just Vital that is pushing Payne or stating he could handle the job. As part of any vetting process you reach out to all everyone. To have multiple people at different levels of the game endorse him is hard to ignore.
This is going to boil down to can Louisville get over the no head coaching experience hurdle. It is a legit concern. And frankly it is going to boil down to trusting other peoples opinion.
We also know he will improve recruiting. I think NIL is going to break the Nike strangle hold on player placement.
It also apparent people that are in the business believe in Payne. It isn’t just Vital that is pushing Payne or stating he could handle the job. As part of any vetting process you reach out to all everyone. To have multiple people at different levels of the game endorse him is hard to ignore.
This is going to boil down to can Louisville get over the no head coaching experience hurdle. It is a legit concern. And frankly it is going to boil down to trusting other peoples opinion.
Good analysis. I’d just add that it’s also apparent that Payne would re-engage a lot of significant donors.
I agree if true I haven’t read, heard or seen enough on donors to comment.
He also brings alumni together. Not sure how much that plays in this decision but it is a factor.
My biggest concern is can he handle the scrutiny that comes with this job. Mack couldn’t. That is frankly hard to evaluate.
Sorry, but all of these experts (like Vitale) who believe Payne is a good fit as UL’s next head coach; on what evidence do they offer as support?
Recruiting at UK??? Once again, sorry but anyone remotely following college basketball know that WWW, Nike and Calipari are responsible for UK’s success with attracting 5 Star talent. I do believe that Kenny earned a reputation as developing a good reputation with the kids in the locker room, but he has never been a head coach or lead recruiter anywhere that could suggest that he is ready to assume such a high profile job.
Those who follow the Eaves, Beard, Bender, Sullivan, Vitale “guide to Louisville basketball” will be sadly disappointed with the outcome. None of the aforementioned have any record of success with either coaching, recruiting or selecting talent for UL; this would be the most critical time to believe they have the competency to participate in this process.
Vitale is truly a very nice person, I met him at the Dallas Hyatt during the Final Four in 1986 before he was so recognizable on ESPN and he truly loves college basketball. However, his only HC success was back in 1977 when he took his University of Detroit team to the NCAA in his 4th year there. His time in the NBA a was short lived when fired in mid season as the Pistons HC. He is beloved as a talking head, but no evidence of his ability to qualify Kenny Payne as a viable candidate here.
In the absence of a permanent President and AD, leave Pegues as interim HC through the end of the season. Once the ACC tournament is done and UL’s destiny for this season is confirmed …….. then, and only then should any decision be made about hiring a permanent HC.
Sometimes the only wrong decision, is the one made prematurely. It is quite possible that Pegues may very well be the most stabilizing factor available for next season. He deserves a chance to demonstrate the ability to turn a lemon into lemonade …….what a story that would be!
Recruiting at UK??? Once again, sorry but anyone remotely following college basketball know that WWW, Nike and Calipari are responsible for UK’s success with attracting 5 Star talent. I do believe that Kenny earned a reputation as developing a good reputation with the kids in the locker room, but he has never been a head coach or lead recruiter anywhere that could suggest that he is ready to assume such a high profile job.
Those who follow the Eaves, Beard, Bender, Sullivan, Vitale “guide to Louisville basketball” will be sadly disappointed with the outcome. None of the aforementioned have any record of success with either coaching, recruiting or selecting talent for UL; this would be the most critical time to believe they have the competency to participate in this process.
Vitale is truly a very nice person, I met him at the Dallas Hyatt during the Final Four in 1986 before he was so recognizable on ESPN and he truly loves college basketball. However, his only HC success was back in 1977 when he took his University of Detroit team to the NCAA in his 4th year there. His time in the NBA a was short lived when fired in mid season as the Pistons HC. He is beloved as a talking head, but no evidence of his ability to qualify Kenny Payne as a viable candidate here.
In the absence of a permanent President and AD, leave Pegues as interim HC through the end of the season. Once the ACC tournament is done and UL’s destiny for this season is confirmed …….. then, and only then should any decision be made about hiring a permanent HC.
Sometimes the only wrong decision, is the one made prematurely. It is quite possible that Pegues may very well be the most stabilizing factor available for next season. He deserves a chance to demonstrate the ability to turn a lemon into lemonade …….what a story that would be!
It not just Vital. That is the point. Every candidate is going to have glowing reviews. It is one factor.
Alumni’s opinion should matter to some extent. It is a factor.
They need to take their time. Vet it out. There is no real hurry here. I just don’t get people digging their heels in on head coaching experience. Like that have historically proven the biggest factor. It has proven to work both ways
Ding ding ding. I think Pegues should remain in place until the NCAA rules if he does ok. Then decide who the next guy is. Buy then we should have an AD and President. Will be in a much better place to hire a top tier coach.
So did every pundit on College Gameday. He is a much better hire than Mack. Should I list all the NBA talent he recruited for Cal? He is my first call.
Well Rick does bear a lot of responsibility for the current state of the program, so he’s was probably right.
Most of the time when you hire a head coach that has never been a head coach only an assistant it is because he is an up and coming YOUNG guy who shows promise. KP is a 55 year old man that has never been a head coach anywhere that should raise some concern.
If he was good enough to run one of the top programs in the country (Louisville) wouldn’t he be good enough to run a mid-major program? He wasn’t pursued by programs for his coaching. He didn’t make an effort on his own to pursue head coaching jobs. That in itself should raise some concern, maybe he knows he doesn’t have what it takes to be the head coach.
If he was good enough to run one of the top programs in the country (Louisville) wouldn’t he be good enough to run a mid-major program? He wasn’t pursued by programs for his coaching. He didn’t make an effort on his own to pursue head coaching jobs. That in itself should raise some concern, maybe he knows he doesn’t have what it takes to be the head coach.
Thanks for your expert analysis you apparently live in Kenny’s head since you know his desires. I’m sure he’s a terrible coach who knows nothing since that’s what you know. I guess the New York Knicks are ignorant for hiring a bench coach to coach his former players. What raises concerns are Louisville fans opinions.
Be careful. Vitale also said UK would set themselves back 10 years if they hired Calipari and endorsed Tubby Smith to remain.
As a UK fan, and I’m sure my guys will hammer me for this, I was never infatuated with Payne. Great guy, does well with the bigs but was not a main recruiter in any way for UK and I don’t think looked very confident when he took over games. To me Payne has always been a career #2 guy. I think he’s just far too laid back to be in charge.
Just my 02.
As a UK fan, and I’m sure my guys will hammer me for this, I was never infatuated with Payne. Great guy, does well with the bigs but was not a main recruiter in any way for UK and I don’t think looked very confident when he took over games. To me Payne has always been a career #2 guy. I think he’s just far too laid back to be in charge.
Just my 02.
That is my biggest concern with Payne can he handle job from a PR perspective
I think it is a risky, boom or bust hire. If he is the guy, then boots are on the ground and ill support 100%.
Bruce Pearl just signed a extension and got a fat raise, he appreciates the clamoring for him. But he’s a snake he just used interest in him for a raise.
Most national mouthpieces IMO just want Payne to get a shot. They’ll talk about his qualifications, but it’s mostly a fairness and equity issue.
The typical coaching hire by an average AD or search firm is a crapshoot. We can probably agree Payne will be able to recruit. Beyond that—coaching—is just a guess.
The problem with Payne is that we will have to give someone a $15+ million contract and be able to answer the coaching question in a couple months. How do you find out the latter without a major financial commitment?
And then OUR specific issue is can we afford yet another hiring mistake? Haven’t we made enough of those lately? Each one puts in another dagger.
It’s why I favor a safe hire even if it’s not exciting or aiming for the fences. I don’t think we can come up short again…
The typical coaching hire by an average AD or search firm is a crapshoot. We can probably agree Payne will be able to recruit. Beyond that—coaching—is just a guess.
The problem with Payne is that we will have to give someone a $15+ million contract and be able to answer the coaching question in a couple months. How do you find out the latter without a major financial commitment?
And then OUR specific issue is can we afford yet another hiring mistake? Haven’t we made enough of those lately? Each one puts in another dagger.
It’s why I favor a safe hire even if it’s not exciting or aiming for the fences. I don’t think we can come up short again…
One would have to be able to see the future to assure that. If everybody knew who was going to win the games and by how much we'd all be rich.
Umm - wut?? The post you responded to contained zero subjective information - only facts.
Fact - Payne has never been a HC.
Fact - Payne - at 55 - isn’t an up and coming young coach.
Fact - the only HC position that anyone has listed that he was in the running for (DePaul) - Payne either took himself out of the running or, was taken out of the running by DePaul.
Fact - in the dozens of jobs that have come up in the last ten years - Payne hasn’t been linked to any that I can think of.
Maybe he gets the job and becomes a HOFer - maybe he gets the job and sucks. Either way - there can be no dispute that he doesn’t have the requisite experience of someone that a top 10 program should consider.
What’s your point he can recruit at SuCk a Nike school with WWW in his back pocket. He’s a risky hire. No doubt about it he’s not proven. No one has been able to tell me what style he coaches? What O and what D?
He might be the next coming of Denny, but no one can say he will or won’t be, which makes him more of a risk than a proven HC.
We better not give him a Bobby 2.0 buyout.
If we end up with Kenny I hope the fans aren’t to brutal if things go south.
I’ll cheer him on just like I do with any of our coaches, I’m just not confident that it’s going to turn out well. Hope I’m wrong would love for Kenny to succeed.
There aren't any great or safe candidates out there. We are lucky for the timing of Rick but the reality is a lot of the best coaches of the era moved on to the NBA or retired, or are just in their career ending positions. I think the sweet timing on pulling in Rick has forever confused us. Coaches that nearly EVERYBODY would buy into are just unavailable. I won't say the names because it's just silly to list them.
When a clown (yes he is a clown) like Bruce Pearl is your #1 choice and probably rightfully so by the majority and he's literally coming off a losing record season I come to the conclusion your pool of candidates are just not very good and all going to come with risk. He has 1 F4 in like 15 years of coaching, and he's the #1 guy, he is the "sure thing" or the closest thing to it? Bruce Pearl just got signed to a contract for life and he had a losing record last year. Say that outloud it's batch!t crazy.
I think we're at the end of the coaching experience as we know it. You are not going to see too many guys hanging around for 20-30 years just absorbing wins and a lifetime of memories. These guys are hired guns they are gonna take the $ and run. They are all risks!
When a clown (yes he is a clown) like Bruce Pearl is your #1 choice and probably rightfully so by the majority and he's literally coming off a losing record season I come to the conclusion your pool of candidates are just not very good and all going to come with risk. He has 1 F4 in like 15 years of coaching, and he's the #1 guy, he is the "sure thing" or the closest thing to it? Bruce Pearl just got signed to a contract for life and he had a losing record last year. Say that outloud it's batch!t crazy.
I think we're at the end of the coaching experience as we know it. You are not going to see too many guys hanging around for 20-30 years just absorbing wins and a lifetime of memories. These guys are hired guns they are gonna take the $ and run. They are all risks!
By "safe", I actually mean safer. No one can predict the future, and anyone can potentially fail here.
I'm not in the camp of rolling the dice as far as pure coaching ability, not at this time anyway. That's my ultimate safety consideration.
I like Payne and would like to see him get that big shot. But I almost feel we're doing him a favor passing on him. This place ain't for the faint of heart, nor is the table set for success. I don't care how much the optimists wanna embellish this job opportunity in 2022...
I'm not in the camp of rolling the dice as far as pure coaching ability, not at this time anyway. That's my ultimate safety consideration.
I like Payne and would like to see him get that big shot. But I almost feel we're doing him a favor passing on him. This place ain't for the faint of heart, nor is the table set for success. I don't care how much the optimists wanna embellish this job opportunity in 2022...
If no one can see the future how would anyone know who is safer than someone else?
Not endorsing KP or against it. I'm just enjoying reading up on the opinions.
Somebody will be right about something I guess.
Pitino’s advice to his assistants has been don’t take a HC job just to be a HC, but to wait for the right opportunity to be a HC!
You can't be serious. If he hadn't played here, and that was a quarter century ago, his name would never be mentioned. He has 10 years worth of Cal's stink all over him, plus he is Eaves and Beard's pick. That alone should eliminate him !
Track record. Sustained success. Competition.
If a coach has been competitive over a long period, made deep postseason runs, played a schedule with plenty of good teams, etc., he or she is probably a better coach than someone without that experience.
Style of play and recruiting don't matter as much. That's just pleasing to the eye or a means to an end. I don't know how you judge fit, but that's important too.
Every situation is different; hence the risk and uncertainty. The more a person is a proven commodity in a job like this one, the better...
Perhaps the most clueless post on this thread is the one giving Payne credit for recruiting success at UK. The “One and Done” train was clearly a result of the World Wide Wes relationship with Nike and the the Nike relationship with UK. Calipari was the one coach in America that was willing to build his program on NBA talent out of high school, when conventional wisdom was leaning towards developing kids over 3-5 years.
Kenny presents himself well with people, and if you listen to those close to the UK BB program, Payne was most effective at managing the egos of the very young super-talented freshman for Calipari.
Kenny has the personality that is perfect for developing harmony in the locker room and on the campus, as the kids trust him.
If UL allows outsiders to pressure the school into hiring Payne, the fans will be disappointed when they discover that Kenny will not be able to recruit HS talent anywhere close to what UK did while Kenny was on staff.
Some could say much of the same about Mike Pegues credentials, but right now Mike is far more deserving of this opportunity and if UL negotiates this carefully ……. they could keep Mike in place as interim HC for another year at a very reasonable salary, and without making a long term commitment.
Kenny presents himself well with people, and if you listen to those close to the UK BB program, Payne was most effective at managing the egos of the very young super-talented freshman for Calipari.
Kenny has the personality that is perfect for developing harmony in the locker room and on the campus, as the kids trust him.
If UL allows outsiders to pressure the school into hiring Payne, the fans will be disappointed when they discover that Kenny will not be able to recruit HS talent anywhere close to what UK did while Kenny was on staff.
Some could say much of the same about Mike Pegues credentials, but right now Mike is far more deserving of this opportunity and if UL negotiates this carefully ……. they could keep Mike in place as interim HC for another year at a very reasonable salary, and without making a long term commitment.
Some people just can’t get over the fact he was Associate Head Coach at UK. You can go hire Scott Drew who got run by Alabama last night. None of these other coaches mentioned haven’t proven anything either. Give me someone who can recruit NBA talent that takes care of a lot.
Mack just cobbled together a bunch of transfers every year. Kids who were set to lose playing time so they come here. And the kids he did recruit became worse not better.
I do love how Peagues is handling these situations he’s been thrust into. He’s been a strong communicator, clearly the players respond to him and he is willing to try different styles of play like coming out pressing yesterday. On the flip side we are all in agreement that this group was kind of cobbled together. As lead assistant how much responsibility does he have in that?
Mack panicked fired his assistants and cobbled together a roster of transfers because his recruits have regressed under his watch. Some of those guys transferred here because they were set to lose playing time at their previous school.
This is where we come to a fork in the road and we ask, while this is a sensible approach in theory, does it apply to our situation, meaning, what candidates fit this theory, and what candidates are actually in the pool? As they say, who checks all these boxes? And this is when we might run into a wall.
I will also pretend not having an AD doesn't matter (it probably does) and pretend waiting on NCAA punishment doesn't matter (it probably does), and just look @ the theory and the guys that fit it.
Coach K, Boeheim, Calipari, Izzo, Wright, Pitino, Bennett, Self, Drew, Beard, Billy D, Brad Stevens, Few, Pearl... if I'm leaving somebody out add 'em on!
Program just got turned away pretty quickly by Pearl it appears he used the mere existence of this job opening to get a lifetime contract @ Aub. He also looks like the low man on this criteria pole. Though maybe not. Anyway...
It "seems" we are down to Bennett and Drew applying your theory. Bennett not listed on Vegas list, Drew #12. I will point out it hasn't even been a week since Mack walked so who knows who is on the list? But none of the UofL insiders out on Twitter have mentioned Bennet's name once. Haven't heard much on Drew there either.
Last hire didn't come close to fitting the criteria.
So while the criteria makes sense in theory, is it applicable for this job search? I guess if we hire Bennett or Drew it is.
IU is in similar traditional standing they just hired a guy with no HC college exp
Duke and UNC are higher up they just hired guys with no HC college exp.
Pool of candidates really sucks, criteria might need tinkering.
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