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Over a third of students at Ole Miss are out of state students?
Over a third of students at Ole Miss are out of state students?
Education Discussion: The People's University thing is working
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Over a third of students at Ole Miss are out of state students?
Over a third of students at Ole Miss are out of state students?
I've heard from Universiity sources that the Oxford campus is over 50% out of state. I'm not sure what's in the CL numbers, but I'm guessing the various branches (which I assume would be 100% in-state), Medical Center, etc. Anybody know about the percentage of out of state students at Oxford?
...that Ole Miss's enrollment structure is so stressed that they want to be more selective when it comes to accepting out of state students. How does this selectivity affect Ole Miss re: Ayers? That's what I'm wondering...
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Edit to add: Taking a look at their enrollment numbers and percentages, about 6,500 Ole Miss students are from out of state (includes UMMC-- which hasaround 2,400 enrolled).Roughly 5,200MSUstudents are from outside the state.
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Edit to add: Taking a look at their enrollment numbers and percentages, about 6,500 Ole Miss students are from out of state (includes UMMC-- which hasaround 2,400 enrolled).Roughly 5,200MSUstudents are from outside the state.
that both State and Ole Miss have a higher out of state enrollment because its easier to get into. There are several people I know that couldn't get into Alabama or Auburn but could get into State and Ole Miss and went there instead. Just did not expect it to be that high.
A quick and dirty look at the SEC West admission standards
Alabama
20 Units, 3.0 GPA, 21 ACT
Auburn
Selective, 20 units, average is 3.4 GPA and 23 ACT
Arkansas
16 Units, 3.0 GPA, 20 ACT
LSU
18 Units, 3.0 GPA, 22 ACT
Mississippi State and Ole Miss
15.5 Units, 3.2 GPA (no ACT required)
or
2.5 GPA and 16 ACT
or
2.0 GPA and 18 ACT
All thanks to the Ayers case, State and Ole Miss are probably the easiest BCS schools to get into.
ETA: I honestly think State and Ole Miss should work together and fight this. It is damn near embarrassing how easy it is to get into State and Ole Miss. A 16 ACT means that you basically grasp 30 percent of the material on the ACT, and you have enough sense to bubble in your name and SSN correctly. And to be honest, a 3.2 GPA at certain high schools isn't much to be proud of.
Arkansas is the lowest requirement in the SEC outside of the Mississippi schools, it requires an additional half unit, a 3.0 GPA and a 20 ACT. If someone wants to go to college with a 2.0 GPA and an 18 ACT, they can go to a regional public school or a junior college. We don't have to let everyone with a pulse in.
A quick and dirty look at the SEC West admission standards
Alabama
20 Units, 3.0 GPA, 21 ACT
Auburn
Selective, 20 units, average is 3.4 GPA and 23 ACT
Arkansas
16 Units, 3.0 GPA, 20 ACT
LSU
18 Units, 3.0 GPA, 22 ACT
Mississippi State and Ole Miss
15.5 Units, 3.2 GPA (no ACT required)
or
2.5 GPA and 16 ACT
or
2.0 GPA and 18 ACT
All thanks to the Ayers case, State and Ole Miss are probably the easiest BCS schools to get into.
ETA: I honestly think State and Ole Miss should work together and fight this. It is damn near embarrassing how easy it is to get into State and Ole Miss. A 16 ACT means that you basically grasp 30 percent of the material on the ACT, and you have enough sense to bubble in your name and SSN correctly. And to be honest, a 3.2 GPA at certain high schools isn't much to be proud of.
Arkansas is the lowest requirement in the SEC outside of the Mississippi schools, it requires an additional half unit, a 3.0 GPA and a 20 ACT. If someone wants to go to college with a 2.0 GPA and an 18 ACT, they can go to a regional public school or a junior college. We don't have to let everyone with a pulse in.
Maybe we just have to be that low due to demand and economics? I'm sure there is some sort of minimum head count we need to have on campus at any given point in time to remain solvent or to put us at a position where we can secure future goals. However, I'm not sure our population of targeted students is well educated enough for us to maintain that head count and simultaneously maintain a respectable minimum entry floor. If we raised standards, we'd likely eliminate a good portion of in-state students and we'd have to turn to recruiting out-of-state students. That could work, but the risk is low as it would be tough to fill the gap with all out-of-state students that meet the higher standards. Mississippi is a hard sale and those quality out-of-students are likely going to their own in-state public institutions.
I know you are the education guru - so I'm likely overlooking something. That was the first thing that popped in my head. Thoughts?
but its not the case. Basically we have to have the same admission standards at Valley, Alcorn, JSU, etc. or we are racist.
I'd be fine with this compromise. Something has to give.
16 units, 3.0 GPA, 21 ACT for unconditional admission, but offer provisional admissions along these lines:
Students with a 2.5 GPA and an 18 ACT, a 3.2 GPA with a 16 ACT or a 23 ACT and a 2.0 GPA can receive provisional admission in which they are limited to 12 hours their first semester. If they maintain a 3.0 GPA, they can move forward as normal college students. If they have a 2.0 GPA, they are limited to 12 hours until they get their GPA up to 3.0 or receive 64 hours of credit. If they get below a 2.0 GPA that first semester, we offer them a one way ticket to EMCC.
I work in education. We are sending kids to State and Ole Miss that have no business going to any college, and they are flunking out in droves and defaulting on their student loans.
I'd be fine with this compromise. Something has to give.
16 units, 3.0 GPA, 21 ACT for unconditional admission, but offer provisional admissions along these lines:
Students with a 2.5 GPA and an 18 ACT, a 3.2 GPA with a 16 ACT or a 23 ACT and a 2.0 GPA can receive provisional admission in which they are limited to 12 hours their first semester. If they maintain a 3.0 GPA, they can move forward as normal college students. If they have a 2.0 GPA, they are limited to 12 hours until they get their GPA up to 3.0 or receive 64 hours of credit. If they get below a 2.0 GPA that first semester, we offer them a one way ticket to EMCC.
I work in education. We are sending kids to State and Ole Miss that have no business going to any college, and they are flunking out in droves and defaulting on their student loans.
How would that affect student athletes especially in regard to such things as the APR and graduation rates?615dawg said:
what I mean is, dont make the education/curriculum easier just to accommodate the lesser students. I say let them all in. If they can make it, then great for us ($$$) and them (college degree). If they flunk out immediately, well then at least we got a semester or two of tuition money.
We need all the money we can get.
We need all the money we can get.
some 'FOOMers complaining about the recent outbreak of UGA/Texas/UVa. rejects on campus. You'd think admissions people would want to highlight a University's "regional appeal" or something similar.<div>But like 615 pointed out (I think), it's not the acceptance rate, it's the retention rate that's more telling.</div><div>and this: "<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">I work in education. We are sending kids to State and Ole Missevery University in America that have no business going to any collegewould be far better served by easing into things at the Community College level, and they are flunking out in droves and defaulting on their student loans.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">"</span></div><div>
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Its not being seen in the engineering classes or most 3000/4000 level classes, but there is general disgust among faculty at MSU regarding the level of student that is coming in. We could go into the whole sense of entitlement issue, but the truth is, the level of student coming in the freshman class of 2010 is way below the class that came in as recently as 1995-2000.
I don't think the students are any more ignorant nowadays, but they expect more for little or no effort. You'd be amazed at the high school seniors who think they are headed to college and will be handed a $100,000 job when they graduate, and by graduate that means show up 70 percent of the time. In their mind, College is just like it is on MTV, 90 percent parties, 10 percent class and studying. Its simply a rite of passage.
I don't think the students are any more ignorant nowadays, but they expect more for little or no effort. You'd be amazed at the high school seniors who think they are headed to college and will be handed a $100,000 job when they graduate, and by graduate that means show up 70 percent of the time. In their mind, College is just like it is on MTV, 90 percent parties, 10 percent class and studying. Its simply a rite of passage.
I've lived in DC and now live in Atlanta. In many States outside of MS the population of college age students has overwhelmed the traditional State schools. UGA and U of Maryland now have the opportunity to become very selective because they have way more kids to choose from (and no Ayers case to deal with). But a lot of the kids in Georgia want to go to an SEC school and have the same experiences that their parents did. Plus Ole Miss and State are both great values compared to say Maryland that I think is now in the 30's per year.
So if your'e option is to go to Kennesaw State, Georgia State, West Georgia,U of Maryland Baltimore County or Ole Miss/State why not go to Ole Miss/State? None of those schools really brings any more to the table name wise and you get to watch SEC football plus save on tuition.
I knew some friends whose children in DC had visited Ole Miss and were seriously considering it. He ended up at Vermont for essentially the same reasons.
So if your'e option is to go to Kennesaw State, Georgia State, West Georgia,U of Maryland Baltimore County or Ole Miss/State why not go to Ole Miss/State? None of those schools really brings any more to the table name wise and you get to watch SEC football plus save on tuition.
I knew some friends whose children in DC had visited Ole Miss and were seriously considering it. He ended up at Vermont for essentially the same reasons.
I'd have no problem decreasing the cost of out of state tuition. The problem is for every 10 out of state kids we get, 7-8 of them are coming because of the admission standards. Someone with a 16 ACT shouldn't be able to come to an SEC school. No offense to any SixPacker who did so, but we are basically letting anyone with a pulse in - it WILL catch up with us. You can't lower the level of education (which is starting to happen) in the name of higher enrollment.
We basically have the same admission standards as the University of North Alabama. We are only slightly higher.
We basically have the same admission standards as the University of North Alabama. We are only slightly higher.
Plenty of students don't meet even that and get in on 'probationary status'. I dated plenty of them.
We always joked that MSU would let in anyone who had cash in hand.
We always joked that MSU would let in anyone who had cash in hand.
If you dumb down the entry level classes then you keep idiots there for a full 1-2 years before they flunk out. Thats 3-4 times the money I was talking about. And if the upper level classes are still good (hard) then you aren't simply becoming a diploma-mill. BTW, I'm not giving this much thought and just spit-balling with tongue in cheek.
I agree with all of your points, and I don't know how old you are but I fell into all of those categories when I graduated highschool right after the turn of the millenium. Everyone from my senior class went to college, I saw it as the next progression in life (not necessarily a privilege), thought a degree would get me a job instantly after graduation. I also did 90/10 partying to studying ratio. The only thing that I feel I was dead wrong about is the part about getting a job instantly by simply getting a degree (Microbiology, so not an "easy" degree).
In this day in age with the need for a college degree to get even a decent job, college HAS become a right of passage because so many more people attend. I think only people in the lowest socio-economic classes don't view college as the next progression after highschool.
I agree with all of your points, and I don't know how old you are but I fell into all of those categories when I graduated highschool right after the turn of the millenium. Everyone from my senior class went to college, I saw it as the next progression in life (not necessarily a privilege), thought a degree would get me a job instantly after graduation. I also did 90/10 partying to studying ratio. The only thing that I feel I was dead wrong about is the part about getting a job instantly by simply getting a degree (Microbiology, so not an "easy" degree).
In this day in age with the need for a college degree to get even a decent job, college HAS become a right of passage because so many more people attend. I think only people in the lowest socio-economic classes don't view college as the next progression after highschool.
That's how it was for me. Ok, didn't get $100K, but i also didn't attend anywhere near 70% of my classes. I once had 24 absences in a T/Th class (hey, not my fault the teach was worthless).
Anyway, that amazes me, because i saw how disgusted the faculty was with the education of the average incoming frosh back in the mid 90s.
Anyway, that amazes me, because i saw how disgusted the faculty was with the education of the average incoming frosh back in the mid 90s.
the Ayer's case pretty much set the bar, unless I'm wrong on that. In my time at State a lot of Freshmen who came in the fall who relied on the low standards were'nt around in the Spring anyway. They got their Grant/Loan or paid tuition outright had one fun semester and said sayonara. Let's be honest if you're barely scraping by to get into State you are not going to be majoring in Engineering/Architecture/Vet Med etc... (no offense to any other majors I can't think of them all). And if you can't cut it in general studies or something well then you should never have been there, which everyone already knew.
I know in Architecture they averaged around a 28-29 ACT for in coming students. And the curriculum was pretty rough right out of the gate. A lot of kids even at that lever were'nt around come Springtime.
I'd probably rather take a kid who just barely missed the cut from UGA than some total bottom feeder from In-State.
I know in Architecture they averaged around a 28-29 ACT for in coming students. And the curriculum was pretty rough right out of the gate. A lot of kids even at that lever were'nt around come Springtime.
I'd probably rather take a kid who just barely missed the cut from UGA than some total bottom feeder from In-State.
I think we have an easier time attracting out of state students, and I think MSU has an easier time attracting in-state students.
You don't have issues with having to try to limit out of state enrollment. We've had issues with that for a long time now, which is why we quit giving in-state tuition to Memphis kids and in the meantime I believe MSU is now offering in-state tuition to Memphis kids, because you don't have the high out of state demand.
Mississippi is a blue collar state. You're seen as the blue collar university, and that's the perception your administration has tried to play up recently.
You don't have issues with having to try to limit out of state enrollment. We've had issues with that for a long time now, which is why we quit giving in-state tuition to Memphis kids and in the meantime I believe MSU is now offering in-state tuition to Memphis kids, because you don't have the high out of state demand.
Mississippi is a blue collar state. You're seen as the blue collar university, and that's the perception your administration has tried to play up recently.
mean Ole Miss attracts the folks that see themselves as elitist and maybe a little better than others and MSU attracts everyone else. Not meant to be a flame as I think this analogy is more accurate. It is ironic that the Blue Collar University graduate earns on average 10K more per year at mid point in career than The Harvard of the South graduate, again not flaming you but I couldn't give you a pass on that "blue collar" statement.
I'm about to graduate, and when I was a senior in high school I knew guys going to Alabama with a 19, and Auburn with a 21. As soon as we reach whatever our capacity enrollment is, we need to start being somewhat selective.
which I assume means you're trying to categorize yourself as the university for the everyday man...which I said is a good strategy in Mississippi, since that's what this state is loaded with.
We don't have a major metropolis. We don't even have a major city. The capital city of the state is a larger version of Macon, Georgia when you get right down to it. The elitists in this state, the Jackson elite, are small potatoes compared to the typical state.
We're a lot like Arkansas in that regard. There is no real elite in Mississippi, only elite by comparison essentially.
We don't have a major metropolis. We don't even have a major city. The capital city of the state is a larger version of Macon, Georgia when you get right down to it. The elitists in this state, the Jackson elite, are small potatoes compared to the typical state.
We're a lot like Arkansas in that regard. There is no real elite in Mississippi, only elite by comparison essentially.
From the University of Mississippi Office of Institutional Research:
8,109 "Resident" Students - 7,356 are Full-Time, 753 are Part-Time
4,742 "Non-Resident" Students - 4,596 are Full-Time, 146 are Part-Time
63.1% Resident vs. 36.9% Non-Resident for all students
61.5% Resident vs. 38.5 % Non-Resident for full-time students
Go to the link and you can look at it in several different ways in Excel (by Gender, Ethnicity, Program Type, Residency, College/School, Class, Full/Part-Time, etc.).
8,109 "Resident" Students - 7,356 are Full-Time, 753 are Part-Time
4,742 "Non-Resident" Students - 4,596 are Full-Time, 146 are Part-Time
63.1% Resident vs. 36.9% Non-Resident for all students
61.5% Resident vs. 38.5 % Non-Resident for full-time students
Go to the link and you can look at it in several different ways in Excel (by Gender, Ethnicity, Program Type, Residency, College/School, Class, Full/Part-Time, etc.).
...people might be buying down to their next choices-- whether it's MSU, Ole Miss, or another institution:
http://chronicle.com/article/How-Students-Are-Buying-Down/126548/?key=TjgldFY7ZiVMYi4yZDoWND0EaSA/MhonYnFDbC4gblFTFw%3D%3D</p>_________
Yeah, I typically embed links within the hypertext but when clicking on the abovelink when it was embedded in that sentence, it wouldn't leave sps so I've had to provide it this way. The only who might be interested in this would be 615, but oh well...
http://chronicle.com/article/How-Students-Are-Buying-Down/126548/?key=TjgldFY7ZiVMYi4yZDoWND0EaSA/MhonYnFDbC4gblFTFw%3D%3D</p>_________
Yeah, I typically embed links within the hypertext but when clicking on the abovelink when it was embedded in that sentence, it wouldn't leave sps so I've had to provide it this way. The only who might be interested in this would be 615, but oh well...
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