El Salvador in panic mode as so many gang members returned to that country

Boomboom521

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You posted this in this thread:

I do, however, hate absolutism and I hate when ANY religion allows their personal views of righteousness in regards to morality to be the source of law for all.

Sure as heck seems like you don't want those of faith being a source of law.

I could say that your ideology and beliefs based on your "experiences" limits the discussion and analysis of any potential law. I see zero difference that would justify excluding those of faith from law making and you being involved in law making.
I agree that many with faith have the same openness when discussing American law, their personal morality cannot be detached....but it doesn't dominate the discussion internally or externally.

I was just clarifying what benefits my experiences as the source of my spiritual belief system, as opposed to a more definitive set of beliefs, provide imo. And why I choose to not be so definitive when it comes to spirituality. That seemed to be a problem.

In addition there are plenty of people that refuse to listen or truly examine anything that even remotely conflicts with the set of beliefs they subscribe to....correct? I contend those men or women are poor representatives.
 
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atlkvb

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I was outraged by the DNC's actions towards Sanders, and I expected heads to roll.....which they did. Would you like me to keep whining about it?

Can you post something along these lines boom that you posted? Anything?

How about Obama's meddling in Israel? Just one? I'd like to see it if you posted it.
 

Boomboom521

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Can you post something along these lines boom that you posted? Anything?

How about Obama's meddling in Israel? Just one? I'd like to see it if you posted it.
Here you go:

I couldn't be less motivated or concerned about proving to you anything about myself. You don't want to believe the fact that I was upset about the DNC's actions? Fine. I really couldn't care less. Obama's meddling in the Israeli election? I've never posted on anything in regards to that subject....or read or started a thread for matter....on that subject.

I'm not sure the point your making. Seems like your hell bent on catching me in a lie? I've already stated my opinion on the hypocrisy. Believe it or not.....literally doesn't make a difference to me.
 

WVPATX

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I agree that many with faith have the same openness when discussing American law, their personal morality cannot be detached....but it doesn't dominate the discussion internally or externally.

I was just clarifying what benefits my experiences as the source of my spiritual belief system, as opposed to a more definitive set of beliefs, provide imo. And why I choose to not be so definitive when it comes to spirituality. That seemed to be a problem.

In addition there are plenty of people that refuse to listen or truly examine anything that even remotely conflicts with the set of beliefs they subscribe to....correct? I contend those men or women are poor representatives.

And I would say I have found many, many atheists with very closed minds. It goes both ways boom. You can't on the one hand want "religion" out of our laws and then accept atheists views when they may be very, very closed minded.
 

atlkvb

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In addition there are plenty of people that refuse to listen or truly examine anything that even remotely conflicts with the set of beliefs they subscribe to....correct?

Yes boomer this is correct. You do it all of the time when it comes to Christians voicing their opinions (or even allowed to have them) vs your own beliefs.

So does this define your belief system? Is this you being "aggressive attempting to define one's behavior or limit their liberty to practice what they believe" or am I not representing your behavior properly?
 
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atlkvb

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Here you go:

I couldn't be less motivated or concerned about proving to you anything about myself. You don't want to believe the fact that I was upset about the DNC's actions? Fine. I really couldn't care less. Obama's meddling in the Israeli election? I've never posted on anything in regards to that subject....or read or started a thread for matter....on that subject.

I'm not sure the point your making. Seems like your hell bent on catching me in a lie? I've already stated my opinion on the hypocrisy. Believe it or not.....literally doesn't make a difference to me.

I know boom. Neither does your outrage to me over anything to do with Trump or the Russians.
 
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Boomboom521

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And I would say I have found many, many atheists with very closed minds. It goes both ways boom. You can't on the one hand want "religion" out of our laws and then accept atheists views when they may be very, very closed minded.
I'm not an atheist
 

WVPATX

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I'm not an atheist

Didn't say you were. My comments were based on your post essentially wanting religious people out of the law making business because as you later explained, they may be closed minded. I am just pointing out that atheists may be even more closed minded.

I find it perplexing when libs want religion to play no role in laws that are passed but could care less if those that are secular write laws even though they may be less qualified or less open to new ideas or less moral.
 

atlkvb

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Than wtf are you posting for?

because you posted this in #39 of this thread boom my Man:


"I was outraged by the DNC's actions towards Sanders, and I expected heads to roll.....which they did. Would you like me to keep whining about it?

Obama's meddling, Kennedy's meddling, Eisenhower's, Nixon's, Regan's, Clinton's, Bush's.....it's all wrong."


I was asking for you to show us this "outrage" similar to your many posts of "outrage" over allegations of Trump colluding with the Russians.

Now you say you don't care, and I believe you. So just as Pax asked you earlier in this thread, why the reserved display of outrage over only Trump?

I attempted to answer that question for Pax on your behalf, and then you took off on me accusing me of "defining your behavior and restricting your liberty" (not true)

So I asked you to defend the outrage you expressed similar to Trump and then you accused me of being arrogant instead of just showing where you were equally upset over Obama or the Dems?

You've done everything in this thread except be a stand up and admit that you've been caught doing what most on the Left do...that is accuse everyone else of what they in fact live and practice.
 

atlkvb

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Didn't say you were. My comments were based on your post essentially wanting religious people out of the law making business because as you later explained, they may be closed minded. I am just pointing out that atheists may be even more closed minded.

I find it perplexing when libs want religion to play no role in laws that are passed but could care less if those that are secular write laws even though they may be less qualified or less open to new ideas or less moral.

Hello...Black kettle...meet this Black pot!
 

Boomboom521

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Yes boomer this is correct. You do it all of the time when it comes to Christians voicing their opinions (or even allowed to have them).

So does this define your belief system? Is this you being "aggressive attempting to define one's behavior or limit their liberty to practice what they believe" or am I not representing your behavior properly?
No you're not. I have a problem with Christianity being taught in public schools, I have a problem with Christianity being the reason a law is made (either way), I have a problem with Christianity being to defacto morality for the nation (even other nations), I have a problem with science and medicine being restrained by Christianity.
 

Boomboom521

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because you posted this in #39 of this thread boom my Man:


"I was outraged by the DNC's actions towards Sanders, and I expected heads to roll.....which they did. Would you like me to keep whining about it?

Obama's meddling, Kennedy's meddling, Eisenhower's, Nixon's, Regan's, Clinton's, Bush's.....it's all wrong."


I was asking for you to show us this "outrage" similar to your many posts of "outrage" over allegations of Trump colluding with the Russians.

Now you say you don't care, and I believe you. So just as Pax asked you earlier in this thread, why the reserved display of outrage over only Trump?

I attempted to answer that question for Pax on your behalf, and then you took off on me accusing me of "defining your behavior and restricting your liberty" (not true)

So I asked you to defend the outrage you expressed similar to Trump and then you accused me of being arrogant instead of just showing where you were equally upset over Obama or the Dems?

You've done everything in this thread except be a stand up and admit that you've been caught doing what most on the Left do...that is accuse everyone else of what they in fact live and practice.
Didn't I answer that already?
 

Boomboom521

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Didn't say you were. My comments were based on your post essentially wanting religious people out of the law making business because as you later explained, they may be closed minded. I am just pointing out that atheists may be even more closed minded.

I find it perplexing when libs want religion to play no role in laws that are passed but could care less if those that are secular write laws even though they may be less qualified or less open to new ideas or less moral.
That's not accurate. I do not want religious people out of the law making process. I don't even want religion out of the process. But I do want religion NOT to be the one baseline of morality in the nation. I want a discussion that doesn't die in the Bible, but allows multiple viewpoints to have their say in the discourse.
 

WVPATX

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That's not accurate. I do not want religious people out of the law making process. I don't even want religion out of the process. But I do want religion NOT to be the one baseline of morality in the nation. I want a discussion that doesn't die in the Bible, but allows multiple viewpoints to have their say in the discourse.

That is not what you posted.
 

Boomboom521

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Hello...Black kettle...meet this Black pot!
You can both continue to spin an internal narrative if you'd like, or ask legitimate questions if you don't understand my train of thought (I'm not the greatest at articulation).....but don't keep lumping all left together.
 

WVPATX

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********. Maybe it's not how it read

I do, however, hate absolutism and I hate when ANY religion allows their personal views of righteousness in regards to morality to be the source of law for all.

I could say the same. I hate when secularists allows their personal views of righteousness in regards to morality to be the source of law for all.

Why do you only point out those of faith?
 

atlkvb

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n addition there are plenty of people that refuse to listen or truly examine anything that even remotely conflicts with the set of beliefs they subscribe to....correct? I contend those men or women are poor representatives

Agreed boom. Read your comments in this thread!

I have a problem with Christianity being taught in public schools, I have a problem with Christianity being the reason a law is made (either way), I have a problem with Christianity being to defacto morality for the nation (even other nations), I have a problem with science and medicine being restrained by Christianity.

But you just described something about others in the post above you are doing!

But I do want religion NOT to be the one baseline of morality in the nation. I want a discussion that doesn't die in the Bible, but allows multiple viewpoints to have their say in the discourse.

So you're arguing for the correctness of your belief system while systematically eliminating from the discussion consideration of anything else that does not agree with it?

These are are your own words boomer. So I'm confused over exactly what you believe or would allow?o_O
 
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atlkvb

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You can both continue to spin an internal narrative if you'd like, or ask legitimate questions if you don't understand my train of thought (I'm not the greatest at articulation).....but don't keep lumping all left together.

I'm just reading what you post boomer, trying to understand it. I've already stated in my opinion I think you're a little weird. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but so far at least in this thread you've done a poor job of disproving my hypothesis about you.
 

Boomboom521

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I do, however, hate absolutism and I hate when ANY religion allows their personal views of righteousness in regards to morality to be the source of law for all.

I could say the same. I hate when secularists allows their personal views of righteousness in regards to morality to be the source of law for all.

Why do you only point out those of faith?
You said I hate Christians. I was explaining the source to which any post I've made would've given you that idea. And that post should have stated "to be the ONLY source of law for all". I stated before that religious morality cannot be detached from representatives or from the political process. I simply do not want all political discourse and discussion to die in the Bible and it's absolute spiritual truth of morality.

But there are many of the Christian faith that do not allow that to happen, because they believe in American ideals and true Democratic Republican representation.
 

atlkvb

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You said I hate Christians. I was explaining the source to which any post I've made would've given you that idea. And that post should have stated "to be the ONLY source of law for all". I stated before that religious morality cannot be detached from representatives or from the political process. I simply do not want all political discourse and discussion to die in the Bible and it's absolute spiritual truth of morality.

But there are many of the Christian faith that do not allow that to happen, because they believe in American ideals and true Democratic Republican representation.

So we can't teach it in Public schools, and it can't be the "source" of any Laws or used to objectively define any morality correct boomer?

So where is there room for it? (Christianity) In our personal lives?

You'd be OK with a society choosing freely to live Christianity in full without any restrictions as long as they don't try to make their rules Law for everyone else correct?

So what if everyone decides THAT is the Law they'd prefer to live under?

You'd be OK with that?
 

Boomboom521

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Agreed boom. Read your comments in this thread!



But you just described something about others in the post above you are doing!



So you're arguing for the correctness of your belief system while systematically eliminating from the discussion consideration of anything else that does not agree with it?

These are are your own words boomer. So I'm confused over exactly what you believe or would allow?o_O
First of all: you don't know my belief system or how it impacts any political opinions I have on any issue. And that's the point.

Two, the thread turned into a Boomboom hates Christians thread for no reason other than your desire to make it so. Instead of being unclear, and simply stating that I don't, I chose to explain any misconstrued post by explaining where my personal frustrations with Christians in America comes from. That being the constraining nature of having a vision of absolute spiritual and moral truth.

These are my opinions, that for some personal enjoyment, you seek to destroy in some circular logic that relies on assuming my political views are the same as "all liberals" in the discussions conservatives have on what's wrong with the left. And also relies on pulling out only portions of my posts, and simply ignoring others.
 

atlkvb

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First of all: you don't know my belief system or how it impacts any political opinions I have on any issue. And that's the point.

Two, the thread turned into a Boomboom hates Christians thread for no reason other than your desire to make it so. Instead of being unclear, and simply stating that I don't, I chose to explain any misconstrued post by explaining where my personal frustrations with Christians in America comes from. That being the constraining nature of having a vision of absolute spiritual and moral truth.

These are my opinions, that for some personal enjoyment, you seek to destroy in some circular logic that relies on assuming my political views are the same as "all liberals" in the discussions conservatives have on what's wrong with the left. And also relies on pulling out only portions of my posts, and simply ignoring others.

Boom I'm simply reading and repeating what you posted.

These are all your beliefs and that's fine. No one's keeping you from them or even saying they are wrong. I'm trying to understand them.

The only one in this thread making assumptions about what someone believes or trying to describe or even limit what someone believes and how much of that deserves consideration in the arena of ideas is YOU boom!

You're the one who says they don't want Christianity as the foundation of morals, you're the one who said it can't be part of Public school education, you're the one who said you don't want Christians deciding who is right or wrong.

No other belief systems including your own have such restrictions, and just like Pax asked, why do you limit your personal restrictions to Christianity?


You accuse me and other people of Faith of dictating how you should believe or limiting your choices to believe what you want but you don't want to give Christians the same Freedoms you argue for and you accuse them of the very restrictive judgements you claim to hate being placed on yourself.
 

Boomboom521

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Boom I'm simply reading and repeating what you posted.

These are all your beliefs and that's fine. No one's keeping you from them or even saying they are wrong. I'm trying to understand them.

The only one in this thread making assumptions about what someone believes or trying to describe or even limit what someone believes and how much of that deserves consideration in the arena of ideas is YOU boom!

You're the one who says they don't want Christianity as the foundation of morals, you're the one who said it can't be part of Public school education, you're the one who said you don't want Christians deciding who is right or wrong.

No other belief systems including your own have such restrictions, and just like Pax asked, why do you limit your personal restrictions to Christianity?


You accuse me and other people of Faith of dictating how you should believe or limiting your choices to believe what you want but you don't want to give Christians the same Freedoms you argue for and you accuse them of the very restrictive judgements you claim to hate being placed on yourself.
You are quite possibly the epitome of what is wrong with discourse in this nation. You attacked me as hating Christians ---- then you sit back and say I'm the only one making assumptions. You say I don't want Christianity as the foundations of morals --- but I said I don't want Christianity to be the source of law. You say I need to show as much outrage towards Obama and the DNC --- then accuse me of lying (and demand I provide proof) when I say I am just as outraged by those attempts to alter democratic processes as the possible Russian influence. You say that I am the same as everyone on the left, and mock my beliefs systems (of which you do not have any real understanding) as weird --- yet you accuse the left of being intolerant to new ideas, and foolishly assuming that everyone on the right thinks the same.

Your hypocrisy and disdain for understanding other's ideas, masked behind your seemingly benign attempt to discuss, bleeds into not your constant need to "win" a debate that supports your personal choices. It is why both left and right throw outrage and disgust instead of respect and tolerance at each other. It's why discourse has turned into heated arguments that resemble a married couple screaming out resentments harbored over the years and exploding over simple issues that could and should be calmly discussed.

Why did you attack me for "hating" Christians? Do you even know? Or was it some deep down rumbling darkness that drives this nasty attitude--- so contrast to your chosen moral and spiritual ideology?
 

atlkvb

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You are quite possibly the epitome of what is wrong with discourse in this nation. You attacked me as hating Christians ---- then you sit back and say I'm the only one making assumptions. You say I don't want Christianity as the foundations of morals --- but I said I don't want Christianity to be the source of law. You say I need to show as much outrage towards Obama and the DNC --- then accuse me of lying (and demand I provide proof) when I say I am just as outraged by those attempts to alter democratic processes as the possible Russian influence. You say that I am the same as everyone on the left, and mock my beliefs systems (of which you do not have any real understanding) as weird --- yet you accuse the left of being intolerant to new ideas, and foolishly assuming that everyone on the right thinks the same.

Your hypocrisy and disdain for understanding other's ideas, masked behind your seemingly benign attempt to discuss, bleeds into not your constant need to "win" a debate that supports your personal choices. It is why both left and right throw outrage and disgust instead of respect and tolerance at each other. It's why discourse has turned into heated arguments that resemble a married couple screaming out resentments harbored over the years and exploding over simple issues that could and should be calmly discussed.

Why did you attack me for "hating" Christians? Do you even know? Or was it some deep down rumbling darkness that drives this nasty attitude--- so contrast to your chosen moral and spiritual ideology?

Again boomer I'm not saying I know if you hate them or not (Christians). You say you don't and I believe that, however your derision as I pointed out to Pax in this thread is most certainly reserved for only them...just as your "outrage" over Foreign countries interfering with elections was limited to outward expressions of only Trump and the Russians.

No my friend, you accused me of "defining your behavior and limiting your choices" when it comes time to believe in what you choose and I've done no such thing!

In reality only YOU boomer have voiced ANY limits or restrictions on what one should believe and even in what forum (ie: you don't want Christianity as the sole basis for Laws or mentioned in the Public schools) Who else argued for your belief system being excluded from any portion of the arena of ideas boom?

Certainly not me. We're simply asking what you are arguing for?

I opined that you do seem to have an antipathy for Christians and Christian thought. Pax said the much the same thing simply based on sentiments you've expressed in this forum.

You even admitted you have nothing but disdain for me, and I've never even hinted at such a lack of respect for your beliefs despite your accusations contrary to that. All I've done in this thread is question exactly what it is you do believe, and I've asked you to explain it in a couple of scenarios to better help me understand how you apply it?
(the abortion scenario example, and Foreign interference in elections)

In neither case did you take that golden opportunity to defend your belief system boom, or even explain your stated positions. You instead turned that chance to define yourself, into an attack on me and then you accused me of being "intolerant, arrogant, or judgemental".

As I said, it makes no difference to me what you choose to believe or even why. But when you can't defend or define your own beliefs, or at the very least stand by them explaining their apparently inconsistent application in real life scenarios, then my friend the issue isn't with whatever your hangups are with me or "Christians" restricting them.

No!

The issue quite frankly boomer, is over your own lack of ability or desire to actually practice what you profess to believe and ironically your refusal to extend that same benefit of the doubt to others who may disagree with you.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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How the **** did you two turn an immigration and gang thread about El Salvador into another stupid and pointless debate over religion? JFC. You both sound ridiculous.
 

atlkvb

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How the **** did you two turn an immigration and gang thread about El Salvador into another stupid and pointless debate over religion? JFC. You both sound ridiculous.

He started it, accusing me of "limiting his choices" in terms of what to believe. I simply said he usually goes off on Christians and excludes everyone else from his wrath...I defended myself, and pointed out to him he does what he accuses me and other Christians of.
 

atlkvb

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first you said this:

I was just clarifying what benefits my experiences as the source of my spiritual belief system, as opposed to a more definitive set of beliefs, provide imo. And why I choose to not be so definitive when it comes to spirituality

then you said this:

In addition there are plenty of people that refuse to listen or truly examine anything that even remotely conflicts with the set of beliefs they subscribe to....correct? I contend those men or women are poor representatives

....and followed that up with this:

I have a problem with Christianity being taught in public schools, I have a problem with Christianity being the reason a law is made (either way), I have a problem with Christianity being to defacto morality for the nation (even other nations), I have a problem with science and medicine being restrained by Christianity


Now boom, I can certainly be wrong in my opinions about you, and how you appear to be talking out of both sides of your mouth justifying a very "fluid" set of core beliefs in these posts.

But simply going by what YOU SAID in these posts, and trying as honestly as you can to explain to me why you are NOT contradicting either yourself or doing the very things you accuse others of Faith for doing, please tell me why I am wrong at least wondering what the Hell it is you are guided by if anything?