Election Integrity

[maroonmadman]

When people think of voter fraud at the national level, Mississippi doesn't really come to mind. And do you really think we should leave a ridiculous, unqualified statement like this to stand unchecked?

That said, if it's not a problem as you say, you shouldn't have an issue with voter ID laws.

If there is wide spread voter fraud as you and Trump claim then please provide evidence of such.

Back when I was in the service I cast my vote from my ship which was hove to in about 10 feet of ice about 6 miles from the US Antarctic Base in McMurdo Antarctic. For a long time the envelope that carried my ballot was on display in the local Chancery Clerks office as proof that mail in voting could be done.

 

[patdog]

Agree completely. I think voter ID should be required, but if you're going to require it, you'd damn well better have an easy, free way for anyone to get an ID issued without leaving their county.

 

[mstateglfr]

Look at the post I was responding to. Just pointing out your usual ********.

Controlling 30-40% of the legislature is nothing. You may as well control 2% of it.

It isnt ******** though. Having 40% of something means the other side has 0% of what you have. Thats pretty 17ing simple math. The claim was that Democrats in Oregon dont need to cheat because they arent concerned with losing. I pointed out that they lost 40%(or whatever it was) of the legislature. That directly refutes Drebin's claim.

And again, Utah is also successfully accepting votes through the mail. This is mentioned because Democrats dont have a majority there and so based on Drebin's narrative, they would be motivated to cheat.

 

[RocketDawg]

Anybody remember when Mississippi had a poll tax? I think it was $2, and when it was pointed out by the courts that charging to vote was illegal, it was finally abolished. I think there was also some sort of literacy test that was required. Both of those were to discourage, or make it impossible, Black voters.

That's been changed, but that doesn't mean that things like mail-in voting and early voting don't leave the door open for fraud. They do.

It's simple - register to vote, get a a photo ID, go to the polls on election day, and vote, and vote only once. Don't vote for someone else, which is quite possible with mail-in voting. If you're gong to be out of town, or have another legitimate reason for missing voting day, then get an absentee ballot and mail it.

 

[Dawgtruc]

You sound racist....no, you are rscist

A point that I WANTED to make, but refrained from doing so, is that the Democrats tout diversity and feminism and street cred in their candidates....and what do they end up with? The one demographic they tend to demonize: A rich, old white guy.

 

[CreekFishin]

"I'm concerned about voter registration in Mississippi. The blacks are having lots (of) events for voter registration. People in Mississippi have to get involved, too” Gail Welch - Jones County Election Commissioner (for the last 20 years)

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Doesnt the state of Oregon have mail-in voting? Ive read about their process and fraud is pretty much non-existent, right? Both parties accept the results. Seems like a model to look into and perhaps replicate elsewhere.

Utah has it too i think?...at least in some capacity.


Instead of a lot of useful discussion, this thread is basically one big conservative trope so far.

You're right. Dems don't need mail in votes to steal an election. My late Uncle was a big part of the Democratic Party in Wisconsin and he had some really interesting stories about southern Wisconsin and Chicago elections.

 

[patdog]

What does having 40% of the legislature do for a party? Not a damn thing. As the Democrats in Mississippi and the Republicans in Oregon can attest. You can't win any statewide elections, and you can't get any of your agenda passed in the legislature. You're almost as screwed as you would be if you had 2% of the legislature.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I can't speak to voter fraud in other states, but I can talk about Texas. I have lived in several zip codes that have more illegal immigrants from Mexico than the entire state of Mississippi could imagine.

I know this much... You better not try to go to 7-11 at lunch time in my hood because there is a line out the door trying to heat up homemade lunch in the microwaves. Come voting time it's nothing but English speaking caucasians as far as the eye can see.

If illegal immigrants were voting, Texas would be the bluest state in the union.

As for the rest of it I have no ideas.... And it really doesn't matter other than a handful of purple states.


I wouldn't get too worked up about voter fraud in NY. It's not going to make a difference. In Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Florida, and a few states with tight Senate races... A handful of votes may be the whole microwaved enchilada.

Which is why the Leftists here in Texas are trying to get rid of the current voter requirements.

 

[mstateglfr]

What does having 40% of the legislature do for a party? Not a damn thing. As the Democrats in Mississippi and the Republicans in Oregon can attest. You can't win any statewide elections, and you can't get any of your agenda passed in the legislature. You're almost as screwed as you would be if you had 2% of the legislature.

Ok, I give.
Its crazy that people dismiss actual stats which refute claims, but its 2020 so of course this is what happens.


I have never said the state legislator is close. I simply refuted what was claimed with numbers.

 

[patdog]

No. You claimed the Democrats in Oregon were in some danger of losing control in the state because they controlled close to 40% of the legislature. I simply showed how that claim was ********. As usual from you.

 

[mstateglfr]

No. You claimed the Democrats in Oregon were in some danger of losing control in the state because they controlled close to 40% of the legislature. I simply showed how that claim was ********. As usual from you.

And Im back apparently.
I didnt claim they were in some danger of losing control. It was claimed voter fraud in Oregon is low because democrats arent in danger of losing a statewide election. I mistook that to mean elections for state representatives and responded. Once it was pointed out that I was wrong due to how I read the post, I recognized it and mentioned that in state representation electiions, Democrats are in danger of losing elections and yet there is no claim of voting fraud.
All that is different from what you say I claimed, which was that Democrats are in danger of losing control.


I have provided 2 states with actual history in managing voting by mail without corruption allegations and both have been ignored or dismissed because they are unique in some way. Its complete ********. Everything can be dismissed because its unique in some way. At some point, actual examples of how corrupt voting by mail is should be cited and discussed or else its just fear mongering.

Whats funny in all this is that I personally probably would still go to the polling location to vote as it takes 5 minutes if that every time ive gone and its an 'immediate' vote. I am not advocating for mail-in voting as much as I am asking how everyone knows for sure there will be rampant corruption. Also, I understand it wont stop, but the absolute joke that corrupt voting is only a issue within the Democratic party is hilarious. There is nothing unique about Republicans that would keep one from fixing votes.
One side can list large northern cities with corruption in politics and claim examples of voter fraud.
One side can list countless southern states with corruption in politics and claim examples of voter suppression.

Instead of continually pointing out this **** in general statements(often examples from before many of us were even born), why dont we focus on recent and current voting and go from there?

 

[horshack.sixpack]

That's not a good comparison, because getting to cash a check at the bank isn't a constitutional right. Voting is.

As weird as it is to people like us, a whole lot of people don't have an ID. I don't know how they go through life without it, it's totally alien to me. And yet they exist.

It seems that a government provided picture ID could be a way to solve the issue relatively inexpensively. (other than the over-sized bureaucracy that it would likely take to make it happen)

 

[Dawgtruc]

I will dunk on you again and remind you that the only time in US history a House of Representatives election had to be thrown out because of cheating was a 2018 election in North Carolina, where the Republican cheated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_North_Carolina's_9th_congressional_district_election

You can throw out all the baseless accusations about Democrats you want, but you'll never change the fact that the only time there is a shred of evidence (and solid proof, as it turns out) was the time your side did it.

Ok. Google Dade Co election fraud and tell me if that was Democrats or Republicans. The election commissioner down there was unabashedly corrupt.

 

[RocketDawg]

In Mississippi, Democrats control 38% of the House seats and 32% of the Senate seats, and 1 of 4 Federal representatives are Democratic. How's that working out for them in statewide elections?

Well, at least your choices in Mississippi for Senate aren't Doug Jones and Tommy Tuberville. I just can't imagine an ex-Ole Miss and Auburn football coach being a US Senator. That's about as bad as having to choose between Trump and Hillary, or Trump and Biden. Give me Geo Bush any day. Or even Bill Clinton.

 

[RocketDawg]

Do know when that statement was made?

 

[CreekFishin]

Last week of June, I think.


https://www.clarionledger.com/story...er-accused-making-racist-comments/3280055001/

 

[RocketDawg]

Sounds like something that would have been said 60 or 70 years ago - hopefully it was taken out of context. Is she in an elected or appointed position?

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Yep. That was in Chris McDanielland

 

[Dawgg]

I want you to do a little open minded research and educate yourself instead of being a partisan hack.

And that, ladies and gentlemen.... is irony.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Ok. Google Dade Co election fraud and tell me if that was Democrats or Republicans. The election commissioner down there was unabashedly corrupt.

https://www.politico.com/states/flo...rida-voter-fraud-ends-with-no-charges-1284958
If you're talking about this story, they were cleared by Ron DeSantis's executive branch after an 18-month investigation provided no evidence of wrongdoing.

That's a pretty far cry from overturning a US House election because no one, including national and state Republicans, disagreed that Republican operatives committed voter fraud.

And again, I'm not blaming all Republicans nationwide because a few Republicans in North Carolina committed the biggest electoral fraud scandal of the 21st century a couple years ago. I'm aware that the vast, vast majority of people in both parties aren't doing anything. I'm just using them as an example to disprove the narrative that only Democrats do it. All studies show that voter fraud is extremely rare and affects vote totals by a few dozen out of millions, if that.

The cost/benefit ratio of committing voter fraud just doesn't work out on an individual level. You risk going to federal prison to add a tiny % of votes to your candidate, since anything noticeable would be caught by all the data nerds who analyze election results. Even when you read about people going to jail for this kind of thing, it was because they voted like 2 or 3 times, not the thousands or more it would take to swing an election.

Oh and to answer your question, the person you presumably referred to, Brenda Snipes, was appointed to be an election commissioner by Jeb Bush (Republican). Go figure.

 

[maroonmadman]

You're right. Dems don't need mail in votes to steal an election. My late Uncle was a big part of the Democratic Party in Wisconsin and he had some really interesting stories about southern Wisconsin and Chicago elections.

You are correct about fraud in elections of years ago, particularly in Chicago when Daly was mayor. "Vote early, vote often" was one of his tongue in cheek slogans of the day. However most of those old Democrats have died off and the rest became Republicans. Voter fraud have been pretty much negligible since the mid 80's or so. That was about the time voting machines began being widely used.

 

[maroonmadman]

Given that national voting day "is statutorily set as the Tuesday next after the first Monday in the month of November", how can mail-in and early voting even be legal?

Has there been an amendment that allows voting nationally on any other day?

I believe each state sets the conditions for absentee and mail in ballots. The only requirement I can remember from my days of casting an absentee ballot is it has to be postmarked on the day of or prior to the election day. While I was in the service voting via absentee ballot our ship had a Voting officer who's job it was to watch me vote (he would NOT see who I voted for) seal up the envelope and certify that it was legit and no undue influence was exerted upon me to vote for any particular individual.

 

[maroonmadman]

Wrong and wrong. There are abnormalities everywhere on both sides. But on scale you don't see a lot of dead people voting republican, or democrat city leaders arbitrarily keeping polling locations open longer in liberal districts, etc., etc. All of this stuff is easily verifiable if you would be honest with yourself. I want you to do a little open minded research and educate yourself instead of being a partisan hack.

I did, as you asked, some research. I typed the following question into Google "Is there widespread voter fraud?" here are the top answers:

https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee...ommission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites.../Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf

This one is very interesting, in fact it list, state by state ALL known cases of voter fraud.
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-latest-voter-fraud-misinformation/

https://www.propublica.org/article/kris-kobach-voter-fraud-kansas-trial

Now lets look at research. The Heritage Foundation list 1290 cases of REPORTED voter fraud. That's a pretty negligible number when millions vote. 1113 of those case resulted in a conviction. Most of those were by individuals voting who were not eligible to vote. Hardly the 'widespread voter fraud' you and others are hawking. It even breaks it down state by state.

This article even suggest mail in voting lessens voter fraud.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixg...-states-show-the-benefits-outweigh-the-risks/

I did find this however.
https://www.americanexperiment.org/...-documented-new-minnesota-supreme-court-case/
1670 cases in Minnesota. Still not the widespread thing you and others are suggesting. Mostly just folks with felony convictions voting when they shouldn't. However, those figures contradict the findings of the Heritage Foundation.so I'll include these.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_the_American_Experiment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation

I did the research like you suggested. It suggest you and others who claim widespread voter fraud are grossly incorrect.

I welcome any legitimate research you can provide that says otherwise.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

And that's 1,290 going back to at least the 1990s (maybe earlier - I didn't click on every state), so not 1,290 out of millions every year. 1,290 period.