Towles=hartline. Towles is not the answer. You gotta see what barker can do. He can't be any worse than what we have witnessed the last few weeks with towles running the show.
End of the Patrick Towels Era
- Thread starter dnabbott25
- Start date
Practice!!!...WE TALKING BOUT PRACTICE:joy::joy::joy::sunglasses:[banana][banana]
I just think if had the same system for four years and better players around him he would be better and hide many flaws (not saying he they would get better).
We have seen multiple QBs taken high than turn out to be just big arms because their flaws in college were hidden due to better players, system, etc. We have seen dozens upon dozens and that is where PT would be in my opinion.
Like the 25 yard bullet that Barker put square in the middle of his chest coming in cold off the bench?
Bakers deserves heat. He is GOD AWEFUL. That guy is nothing more than a big kid, with a big mouth, known for smack talking in practice. He COST us 2 wins, litterally. Where is Blake Bone? Give him the passes like last year. Bench Baker. I dont care if you need him to block, fine, then only play him on run plays. He is HORRIBLE
Hes had bad drops. But most have just been tough catches that he should have made.
In the circus catches category, I can think of 2 Baker had, and one Badet had. Seems like Juice had 1 too. Im not sure how many circus catches youre expecting per season, but considering the fairly low number of pass attempts; 3 or so is quite a bit.
Both posts are exactly correct. Towles has all the physical tools anyone could ever hope for in a QB. But he lacks most of the mental tools necessary to succeed. His incredible physical tools has been enough temptation for this staff to invest their futures and the programs futures into trying to develop the cognitive aspects of his game. Its just not happened.
Exactly. When posters repeat "well hed be great if he had elite everything surrounding him" they should realize theyre actually making an argument against a player. A good player doesnt need the perfect situation to be effective.
False. We all love him. We all want him to succeed. He just isnt. I dont care about looking right to random anonymous internet message board posters. I want to see my team win, Towles just doesnt give us the best chance. He said it himself. What more do you need?
Excellent post.
I agree. Barker hit Baker perfectly on a back shoulder throw. Seems to me Baker has regressed a bit this season. I have noticed Baker drawing single coverage quite a bit also. Maybe the biggest problem with our receivers is they just don't get open.
This is a stretch, the Dawson and Brown offense are virtually the same, I mean this is a big stretch on your part, you act like this was a big switch that PT has had to endure, going from I formation or 2 TE offense or option offense. Air Raid is all the same for most part, this does not hold up at all in your arguments. The switch to Dawson was very pedestrian, they all have the same automatic calls when 7 guys are in the box or they all have the same auto calls with 6 in a box etc.. Maybe Dawson relies on deeper routes or does not throw the screen as much. This is strictly a PT problem compounded by factors as drops, bad OL play, Dawson not really knowing what the hell is going at times and not being on same page. I give PT that, he has been affected by terrible play to go around. He has not played well at all but this is not about that. It is about this program needing a jolt and a lift, it is about Stoops saving this team and not letting this thing get away from him, not sure he can recover if he does not make bowl. IT is time for a change to shake up, again not sure Barker is better but we have to shake up.
I think Stoops tried to go with PT because he knows this is the end of the era, once you make the change than you lose PT and he knows it. He hated to switch and this is why he waited so long. He knows this is it when this switch comes about. Stoops is caring for his guy and going the extra mile.
IMO
I think youre exactly right. Thats also why several fans, me included, hate to see Towles not be able to live up to his incredible potential. Pretty gut wrenching to see the kid himself suggest in an interview its time to look at someone else. But says alot about what his character, which everyone agrees is terrific.
Can you name one who struggled as badly in college as Towles has thus far? I sure can't think of any.
You're playing a false equivalency game here. Sure, there have been plenty of big armed busts cut in the Ryan Leaf mold taken in Round 1 over the years. But the difference is at the COLLEGE level those guys kicked ***, they didn't get exposed until they faced pro competition. College defenses were no problem for them.
Conversely, Towles does not even seem to be able to handle the complexity of these college defenses. His decision-making appears too slow, and his passing far too inaccurate and inconsistent, for even high college level ball. He's already been exposed before ever facing that next level. He's been a whole different level of bad than the guys you're trying to compare him too.
Seems like your whole argument here is based on the fact that Towles is big and strong with a real powerful arm. Well, you know, that's all nice, but it alone ain't nearly enough to make a QB a top draft pick. Busts like Leaf didn't get drafted high solely because they were big and strong-armed, it was also because they kicked *** on the field and were stars at the college level.
Last edited:
Why are jumping into the conversation? Back yourself on out big fella.
PT is the only place you and I disagree on, and as of now he must sit, but he could have been a good one.
This what you guys are not grasping.
I am agreeing with you on his negatives, his faults.
My only point is they are magnified by the different schemes each year, poor oline and drops.
With 4 years in same system, his liabilities would not have been so pronounced and these experts who love him so much today would really love him.
Still a switch Real Deal, and like you said Dawson requires more time in the pocket than NB did, thus more pressure, thus PT's inability to handle pressure.
I am not saying the kid is great, I'm just saying he has great tools and that a better program would mask those much better than we have.
Not a stretch in my opinion.
You guys saying he would suck even at UGA is the stretch in my mind.
Here is has very poor blocking against 4 man fronts, multiple drops, poor running game.
UGA great blocking, better wr's, excellent running game, 8 guys in the box, not in the defensive backfield waiting to snag a pick or preventing wr's from getting open.
Really? I said if PT was on another team ala UGA he wouldnt struggle as much, how do you miss that?
Last edited:
No, what you actually said was that if he was on a team like UGA he'd be a "first rounder this year." Others contested that belief as absurd, and you've responded with no cogent or convincing argument to back it up.
So now I'll go back to my prior question you dodged: Can you name me a first rounder who struggled as badly in college as Patrick has thus far? You seemed to be suggesting that there have been other first rounders like him, well ...can you give examples?
@UK till Death
@bigblueinsanity
@Real Deal 2
@UK90
First off, i like you guys and have for years.
But my gosh you people are being hard headed.
We all agree on PT's faults. Ok?
Now, stop bathing yourselves in your lust for being right about how bad a player is and try to see another opinion.
My only statement is that in my opinion the guy could/would mask a bunch of his issues being on a team like UGA.
If these experts believe he is a top 3 Junior QB now, they would really love him at UGA.
ANY QB WOULD DO BETTER UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES:
Same system and coaches for 4 years. (Yes even better than 2 OC's with similar systems)
A great oline. For a QB like PT the less pressure the better.
A great running game, brings more defenders in the box and thus less covering wr's.
Better wr's to catch balls right at them and some inaccurate passes as well.
NOW ADD IN PT'S PHYSICAL CAPABILITIES WITH THESE CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE SCOUTS LOVE HIM EVEN MORE.
Would he still have a hard time with pre-reads? Maybe, not a definite if he had solid coaching in ONE system for 4 years.
Would his accuracy be as bad? Maybe, I am not foolish enough to say he is an accurate passer, but I am not blind enough to see that the constant pressure has caused him to hurry passes which in turn have been poorly thrown.
Would he handle pressure better? Most likely not, his pocket presence and feel are just not there, however he would have much less pressure with a better oline, so that would be masked a bit.
Would he be a better leader? Doubt it, he just does not seem to be confident enough, or vocal enough. But a UGA would have several capable leaders.
Thus my simple take was if he was at a UGA all these magnified flaws we see now would be hidden much more at a UGA and these crazy scouts who love him now would swoon over him even more.
Not a reach, not a stretch, just an opinion.
If you think the kid would suck under any circumstance, that in my opinion is much more unbelievable.
@bigblueinsanity
@Real Deal 2
@UK90
First off, i like you guys and have for years.
But my gosh you people are being hard headed.
We all agree on PT's faults. Ok?
Now, stop bathing yourselves in your lust for being right about how bad a player is and try to see another opinion.
My only statement is that in my opinion the guy could/would mask a bunch of his issues being on a team like UGA.
If these experts believe he is a top 3 Junior QB now, they would really love him at UGA.
ANY QB WOULD DO BETTER UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES:
Same system and coaches for 4 years. (Yes even better than 2 OC's with similar systems)
A great oline. For a QB like PT the less pressure the better.
A great running game, brings more defenders in the box and thus less covering wr's.
Better wr's to catch balls right at them and some inaccurate passes as well.
NOW ADD IN PT'S PHYSICAL CAPABILITIES WITH THESE CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE SCOUTS LOVE HIM EVEN MORE.
Would he still have a hard time with pre-reads? Maybe, not a definite if he had solid coaching in ONE system for 4 years.
Would his accuracy be as bad? Maybe, I am not foolish enough to say he is an accurate passer, but I am not blind enough to see that the constant pressure has caused him to hurry passes which in turn have been poorly thrown.
Would he handle pressure better? Most likely not, his pocket presence and feel are just not there, however he would have much less pressure with a better oline, so that would be masked a bit.
Would he be a better leader? Doubt it, he just does not seem to be confident enough, or vocal enough. But a UGA would have several capable leaders.
Thus my simple take was if he was at a UGA all these magnified flaws we see now would be hidden much more at a UGA and these crazy scouts who love him now would swoon over him even more.
Not a reach, not a stretch, just an opinion.
If you think the kid would suck under any circumstance, that in my opinion is much more unbelievable.
No you again cannot comprehend my statement.
Geez man, try harder.
Had he been on UGA, my opinion is he wouldnt have struggled as much as he does here.
Can this not get through your head?
You think he would suck under any circumstance, I disagree.
If you want to discuss this then try to stay on topic.
Do not veer from my analogy that his faults would be masked much better and that if they love him now they would really love him at a UGA...
Why is this so hard?
You seem like a good guy. I dont take anything personal on here and understand we all just want a good program.
All those things play a part in his struggles. Physically, hes the most gifted player to ever play QB at UK. Mentally he just has so many shortcomings about how to play the position, and hes showing no signs of being closer to figuring it out.
The great majority of the time, he has a very hard time making the correct presnap read. Then he very rarely goes through his progressions (although he showed signs a few games ago, yet thats disappeared again). Usually he just panics and eats a sack, or takes off running. At least now, after 2 years, he steps up rather than rolls out. Hes also throwing the ball away at times. Thats something I guess.
When his first read is open, hes like magic. He gives us a little taste of what he should be. But sadly just becoming more and more rare.
The struggling OL effects this to a regard, because he doesnt have extended time. Although, when he does, he still looks lost and usually eats the ball.
The OC struggles playcalling, mainly because the staff doesnt trust their QB AND the QB no longer poses a threat to opposing defenses. So that helps shut down the run game.
If Barker doesnt take the job next year, we need to just run a read option. Towles running ability is underutilized this year. Thats something he could use to at least stress the defense. Right now D coordinators arent concerned about our QB hurting them at all.
Wait till next year has been the story for as long as I can remember, but next year never comes.
I think we all agree that PT is gifted in things you look for, this is not easy for any of us at all. In a perfect world, PT would take the mantle and run with it, Give Drew some snaps next year and let him have 2 years to play or maybe one of the committed guys take the job in 2 years. That is what we are all hoping for. Bottom line is PT is playing behind a bad OL, not a great WR corps., Dawson is his 3rd OC in 4 years. I get it. The bottom line is the kid is a shell of himself, he has lost confidence, he is gun shy, he is not going through his reads, UT game looked like they knew what was coming. They were disguising late and he could not pick up. Very disturbing from 4th year guy.
He has not gotten better, he has reverted.
I heard him say he was not pulling trigger quick enough, that is very alarming, in college compared to pro's, everyone is open, in the pro's you have to throw them open. You have small window. IF PT is having trouble pulling trigger or indecisive in throwing to guys that he feels are covered, well good luck in NFL. All of this goes back to many factors that brain poe has brought up. I get it and buy it, bad OL, Dawson, drops, no running game.
This is about a shake up. This is about maybe extending his tenure. I think the Vandy game is make or break for Mark, he has to win this game and get bowl eligible. Next year does not set up well. Our best players are in this class and the incoming class coming in. Not a good recipe, he has to show he is moving this program forward.
All teams must be accountable. The team has left the station on Patrick, they are not going to play for him, sorry but I have heard and I can watch the game. PT could not hold Dobbs from UT's playbook. They looked in person like night and day different. He does not make players better, doesn't inspire others and quite frankly the guys don't trust him and are tired of watching the mistakes without any ramifications. Time to shake up, this is do or die for him. I mean this is getting to a runaway train.
IMO
He has not gotten better, he has reverted.
I heard him say he was not pulling trigger quick enough, that is very alarming, in college compared to pro's, everyone is open, in the pro's you have to throw them open. You have small window. IF PT is having trouble pulling trigger or indecisive in throwing to guys that he feels are covered, well good luck in NFL. All of this goes back to many factors that brain poe has brought up. I get it and buy it, bad OL, Dawson, drops, no running game.
This is about a shake up. This is about maybe extending his tenure. I think the Vandy game is make or break for Mark, he has to win this game and get bowl eligible. Next year does not set up well. Our best players are in this class and the incoming class coming in. Not a good recipe, he has to show he is moving this program forward.
All teams must be accountable. The team has left the station on Patrick, they are not going to play for him, sorry but I have heard and I can watch the game. PT could not hold Dobbs from UT's playbook. They looked in person like night and day different. He does not make players better, doesn't inspire others and quite frankly the guys don't trust him and are tired of watching the mistakes without any ramifications. Time to shake up, this is do or die for him. I mean this is getting to a runaway train.
IMO
Hartline? He was better than Towles. Hartline actually had a decent winning % I believe as a starter.
His accuracy is bad. He throws balls behind, high, low, etc. And even on TIMING ROUTES yesterday, he threw the ball WAAAAAAAAAY too soon. On the one interception it was a timing route, he threw the ball BEFORE the receiver was even close to the spot or turned around, and it was picked off. Not to mention the ball was also thrown 3 yards to the left. Say whatever you want to defend him but HERE IS THE TRUTH. Pat is Pats problem. Defensive Coordinators are using speed rushers against him because they know he has ZERO pocket presence. The book on Pat is this, he gets scared, and instead of stepping up in the pocket and reading, he panicks and looks away from his receivers and runs. So basically, until Pat stays in the pocket and completes passes, defenses will CONTIUNE to speed rush him, and drop 7 into coverage. And guess what???? Our O-Line cant block speed rushers, they just cant, and the get caught holding while trying to. And this is the circle of life for us but it all starts with Patricks decisions. He can actually HELP his O-Line and receivers but he doesn't because he is simply overrated. He has had his chance. We have tons of talent, and even better recruits on their way. We cant let the whole program go down because of Patrick. Im sorry, but this experiment is over. Let Reece or Drew play the last 3 games, use Patrick sparingly.
Stoops has put himself in a very bad position concerning the QB situation. 3 games left, 2 we must win. No win is a guaranteed, no matter what you think at this point. Stoops has waited way too long to play Barker, not start him, but just playing the kid. Way too much is on the line, and changing now, Stoops is all in with Towles. No way in hell does Barker get the start against one of the SEC's best defensive teams. Too bad we don't have Charlotte next, but we don't.
If Barker starts, and does horrible, this forum would blow up with all the "told ya so's". If Towles starts, and is his usual self of late, expect 500 more Towles threads. What gives?
If Barker starts, and does horrible, this forum would blow up with all the "told ya so's". If Towles starts, and is his usual self of late, expect 500 more Towles threads. What gives?
We are still way off base here.
I did say at UGA he could/would be a first rounder due to the fact his "struggles" would be lessened due to my points main multiple times.
You said show me a QB with his struggles going 1st round, these guys were all great in college...? After I said his "struggles" would be masked much more at UGA making him appear much better and thus more appealing to these "experts" who love him now.
I never said he wouldn't still have those struggles. Players deficiencies are hidden every year due to system and the players around them.
If your take is he would struggle just as much with a better oline, better running game, better wr's, and less pass defenders, then we just disagree.
There is no one defending him, just a lack of reading comprehension here Ty.
This entire discussion was a what if scenario.
What if he had chosen a UGA with the same system for 4 years, a better line, better run game, better wr's, less pass defenders.
Would these factors make him look better?
Would these factors mask his real deficiencies much more at UGA than UK?
Would the experts who think he is number 3 JR QB right now really push him up even higher?
My answers to each of these is yes.
With more time and confidence he most likely would be more accurate, most kids would.
With less defenders lower his INTs, yes since many come from other areas to pick off the passes with 8 men in coverage.
Would he be better in the pocket - not sure.
Would he have a better feel - probably not.
Would he do better under pressure - probably not.
Would these factors occur much less frequently at a UGA than UK right now, definitely.
Thus those experts would see less of his deficiencies and like him even more.
Thats it.
Over the middle and slants both are major issues, timing and touch just not there
I've been a huge supporter of Towles because I liked the kid, he loves Kentucky and think we all wanted him to succeed. But at some point you gotta try the next guy, just like Stoops has done with the corners. You just can't defend continuing to start him when you look at what he is currently giving us. 1TD to 8 INTs against FBS schools tells you everything you need to know about how he has struggled this year.
It is time to give Barker a shot and see if he can win us two more games. We have got to win 2 more games or it is going to be a really, really ugly offseason. I mean U-G-L-Y Maybe not fair, but fans expectations are raised and based on their first 5 games, should be. There's no excuse for how we've played recently. We have a couple injuries but not an abnormal amount that would explain our play.
Hope Barker comes in and wins out and puts the QB controversy to rest. Because if not Barker, who? Towles will still have a chance in the spring and fall to get back his job.
It is time to give Barker a shot and see if he can win us two more games. We have got to win 2 more games or it is going to be a really, really ugly offseason. I mean U-G-L-Y Maybe not fair, but fans expectations are raised and based on their first 5 games, should be. There's no excuse for how we've played recently. We have a couple injuries but not an abnormal amount that would explain our play.
Hope Barker comes in and wins out and puts the QB controversy to rest. Because if not Barker, who? Towles will still have a chance in the spring and fall to get back his job.
WE all could continue this discussion from now on. PT is a KY boy that we would love to see tear it up here at UK and then be able to watch on Sundays in the NFL. He just isn't getting it done. Lets give Barker an opportunity to see what he can bring, may be better or may be worse but he deserves his chance!
Interesting discussion. It does give me pause though. Before the season started, Dawson said he could fix every QB problem except accuracy. To paraphrase him, if you arent an accurate passer there is nothing he can do to change it. We all know, and Dawson had to as well, PT isn't an accurate passer. Yet he plays even when he is really playing poorly. That makes me really wonder about DB's shortcomings. There must be some glaring ones. He deserves a real game opportunity, but I don't think I'm going to be expecting much. Time will tell.
That isn't completely true. For all we know PT is our best chance to win and we can easily get to a bowl game if we beat Vandy. Acting like the season is already over so, who cares, put in DB may be a terrible mistake. We just don't know.
Well said, and I agree. BUT, Pat is at UK, and that's what he is being evaluated on. The current situation. And I still say, even if he was at UGA or anywhere else, he would still have to make better decisions, and pocket presence. I just hope he turns it around. He needs to have balls of steel, and man up, and step up when the rush comes, NOT step out. And the damn receivers need to help him, and catch some balls. GET BLAKE BONE SOME THROWS !!!!
We've all been hard on Pat, the line, and the receivers. Guess what, that's our job, at least that's our job on this board. We are the same guys who will praise them when they turn it around, and make no mistake, I AM ROOTING FOR PAT AND THE LINE AND THE RECEIVERS. Go cats, go big blue. (give us 3 wins and a bowl, and all of this goes away) in the end, that's all we'll remember.
First off most of the people on this hope you work in a missile silo or some job that does not require you to work much during the day because your employer is not getting their money's worth from you. It is pretty much a given that if someone says something derogatory about PT you come flying in to save him every chance. Hope you are related to him, and if not maybe a bromance or good friend.
I think Real Deal made some great points which I agree with and would have typed earlier, but in doing so it would mean a nonstop back and forth with you posting every 3rd post defending Towles. Go back and look through this thread and count how many times you post on here defending him. If not a relative you need to be one.
Bottom line is prototypical size and arm does not mean squat if you don't have mechanics, footwork, and pocket presence. Who cares if you have a big arm but no footwork - that is like shooting a cannon out of a canoe. QB's job is to get the ball out on time and in rhythm. If he is getting a strong pass rush he needs to sit down with his coordinator and discuss how he is going to scheme against it - short quick passes, 3 step drops, max protect, formations and motion to determine if it is man or zone, do they have enough blockers for pass rushers, do they use "0" protection, do they frustrated the defense by having them rush 7-8 plays in a row with no chance to get the QB because the ball is out by their 3rd step - pretty frustrating and wears a dline out. His size can help but Aaron Rodgers is not large nor Drew Brees, but they are accurate with the ball. Take that any day over a Jamarcus Russell or Jeff George.
Top trait of a QB is his ability to lead, motivate, inspire confidence in his fellow offense players. PT does none of this with his actions or body language, and as a player it is the worst thing to have to play with. The QB steers the team, decides who gets the ball, and leads everyone. He has failed his teammates in this respect - that is why there is a problem with the team.