If a football team gets in a hole 10-0 in the first quarter and then proceeds to lose by the same score - it's the defense's fault?
To me, it's 100% on the offense.
To me, it's 100% on the offense.
Engie - let me ask you this...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
Like I said, didn't we give Croom hell for bitching about the D giving up 14 points or something?
I think engie just feels like the pitching staff is much further below their ceiling than the offense.
I think engie just feels like the pitching staff is much further below their ceiling than the offense.
And I think if we're talking "for the season", he would be right by saying the pitching has let us down more than the hitting. But yesterday, for that one game, I feel like the offense should have scored 3 runs.
Like DS said, If we were playing at LSU in football, and we gave up an early TD on a blown coverage by Nickoe Whitley and went on to lose 7-3....are we to blame the defense because without the blown coverage we may have won 3-0? Or do we blame the offense because our D held a top team to 7 points and we STILL couldn't score enough to win? I blame the offense.
When you hold a top team to a low score on their home field, you gotta win or it's on the offense.
It would be like blaming the defense in the 3-2 loss to Auburn in football, bc they gave up the field goal.
It is on the offense. One of the worst showings I've ever seen. I've seen teams get no-hit that looked better than we did yesterday. Other than the HR (which was a rocket), the other hits were weak seeing eye balls and we only had a couple of well hit outs.
But that outing by Bracewell was just inexcusable. Arkansas looked every bit as bad at the plate as we did, but Bracewell gift-wrapped 3 runs for them, and it could have been more except Mitchell got us out of a jam.
But that outing by Bracewell was just inexcusable. Arkansas looked every bit as bad at the plate as we did, but Bracewell gift-wrapped 3 runs for them, and it could have been more except Mitchell got us out of a jam.
If the pitching staff gives up 3 runs in a game, and you can't overcome that then it's all on the offense.
Exactly. It doesn't matter if we walked em in, balked em in, or gave up a 3 run jack. 3 runs is 3 runs and our bats have to step up.
I think we are alright offensively it's just that outside of Renfroe we need to get our heads out of our asses and start HITTING not just standing in the box with a bat. Norris Frazier Bradford Rea need to get their **** right. They are supposed to be leaders.
if you take away Renfroe, this team is hitting .218 in league play. Wow.
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EXACTLY.
All of this taking the first two fastballs right down the 17ing middle, and then striking out on a curve in the dirt, is just dumb baseball and terrible plate approaches.
We take more fastball strikes than any team in the country. I always thought college baseball players were taught to expect fastball and adjust to the offspeed stuff. Well, if we were expecting fastball then we would hit more of them.
I agree with Will though, our hitting is much improved, we just have to get our heads out of our asses from a plate approach standpoint.
One of the reasons we have so many weak base hits is because we are usually behind in the count and having to defend the plate. When you have a 2-0 count, you should be expecting a fastball and you should be ready to crank it in the gap....but it's like Cohen has everybody wanting to work counts and draw walks, so we end up taking the 2-0 fastball (which is the best pitch of the at bat), and then allowing the pitcher to work his way back into the count. I understand that approcah with weaker hitters, but guys like Frazier, Detz, Rea, Porter, and even Norris should be jumping on these "hitters pitches" in my opinion. Renfroe already does it obviously.
Its pretty obvious we have issues all around. We regularly have starters that can't get out of the first inning, we have an offense that isn't producing enough at the plate and we have routine brainfarts on the basepaths. Hard to get that all corrected at once but heck yes, when you've only scored more than 4 runs TWICE in 9 SEC games that ain't good enough. And if we had scratched out just 4 runs yesterday even that amount would have been enough to have won the game just like it did on Saturday.
I hate to keep referring back to the Will James Preseason Notes but...
Wouldn't this be more akin to going down 10-0 and then losing 10-3?
If you can only muster 1 field goal then you probably weren't going to win anyway.
Just in reference to yesterdays game, not just the topic overall.
If you can only muster 1 field goal then you probably weren't going to win anyway.
Just in reference to yesterdays game, not just the topic overall.
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The offense has to step up. I understand Cohen's concern about the walks though. It seems like when we give the other team an early lead, we get tight at the plate. We play with more confidence when everything gets off to a good start.
Exactly. As bad as the we've been at the plate, the number of times our starter hasn't been able to even get through the 2nd inning is pretty concerning. Our middle relief has been incredible in most of those games, but we just can't keep spotting teams 3+ runs early with our lack of offense.
We hit bad one game. And even still we hit balls hard. You all are going a bit off the deep end. It's baseball, it happens. Our offensive issues are on the lineup for the most part. We usually outhit our opponents, even when we lose.
If we fell behind Alabama in Bryant Denny 21-0 on 3 RB fumbles inside our own 5 in the first quarter -- and go on to lose the game 21-7 without ever letting them again cross the 50 on their own accord -- You damn well better believe that I'm blaming the loss on the running backs...
You cant legitimately compare the 2 sports. There is no field position in baseball for example. The pitching correlates IN NO WAY with our ability to score, whereas fumbles on offense DIRECTLY CORRELATE with the other team scoring.
There are set amount of outs in baseball as well. Getting up in football allows you to run the clock. There is no clock in baseball. You get the same opportunity no matter what.
That's why your football example doesn't hold water and why you can say if you only give up 3 runs its on the offense. Baseball is static. Footballs dynamic.
There are set amount of outs in baseball as well. Getting up in football allows you to run the clock. There is no clock in baseball. You get the same opportunity no matter what.
That's why your football example doesn't hold water and why you can say if you only give up 3 runs its on the offense. Baseball is static. Footballs dynamic.
This is my problem. People KEEP misunderstanding my position on this, although I've explained it in detail.
IF the 3-4-5 hole hitter for Arky hits a 3-run bomb in the first to score those runs -- and we go on to lose the game 3-1 -- I'm simply saying "we got our asses beat by a team that was better today". Better pitching team. Better hitting team. On that day. I'd tip my hat.
We got BEAT by their pitcher(s) yesterday. They were better than our hitters. I didn't have a problem with the plate approach -- It was the EXACT SAME approach we used to beat Stanek the previous day. The difference was that this guy never lost his composure and kept throwing strikes.
We BEAT OURSELVES on the mound in the first inning yesterday. We gave them the runs with the bat on their shoulders. We did not make them actually beat us. That is BEATING YOURSELF. That's the part of this that I find unforgivable. Not the 3-run output that Arky actually achieved -- the manner in which it was achieved.
IF the 3-4-5 hole hitter for Arky hits a 3-run bomb in the first to score those runs -- and we go on to lose the game 3-1 -- I'm simply saying "we got our asses beat by a team that was better today". Better pitching team. Better hitting team. On that day. I'd tip my hat.
We got BEAT by their pitcher(s) yesterday. They were better than our hitters. I didn't have a problem with the plate approach -- It was the EXACT SAME approach we used to beat Stanek the previous day. The difference was that this guy never lost his composure and kept throwing strikes.
We BEAT OURSELVES on the mound in the first inning yesterday. We gave them the runs with the bat on their shoulders. We did not make them actually beat us. That is BEATING YOURSELF. That's the part of this that I find unforgivable. Not the 3-run output that Arky actually achieved -- the manner in which it was achieved.
10 points? its the offense
But our current starting ptiching reminds me more of this game.
The offense has some balme, but you cannot give up 3 runs without a hit in the first and win. We walk too many batters. Too many free baserunners.
I remember Will James rants on ****ing and his numbers about probability's scoring with no outs and runners on. We allow too many free passes from pitchers that in a non starting role, have pitched well.
But our current starting ptiching reminds me more of this game.
The offense has some balme, but you cannot give up 3 runs without a hit in the first and win. We walk too many batters. Too many free baserunners.
I remember Will James rants on ****ing and his numbers about probability's scoring with no outs and runners on. We allow too many free passes from pitchers that in a non starting role, have pitched well.
I just wish y'all were half as bad as most of the people on here think y'all are
I hate to say it, but I think y'all have a really solid team. I still don't think its a top 5 team, but its a top 15 team that has lost a few close games to Top 5 teams and blew a game in Lexington.
You've got a Friday Night starter in Graveman if you want him. Guy has been nails, and you have a solid top of the lineup as soon as Frazier breaks out of his funk.
I could be wrong, and y'all need to be careful this Tuesday night, USA has a damn good baseball team this year, way better than the past few years despite its terrible outing this past weekend.
I hate to say it, but I think y'all have a really solid team. I still don't think its a top 5 team, but its a top 15 team that has lost a few close games to Top 5 teams and blew a game in Lexington.
You've got a Friday Night starter in Graveman if you want him. Guy has been nails, and you have a solid top of the lineup as soon as Frazier breaks out of his funk.
I could be wrong, and y'all need to be careful this Tuesday night, USA has a damn good baseball team this year, way better than the past few years despite its terrible outing this past weekend.