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MC63

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
6,537
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Doppelganger! said:
The page on the IHSA website titled "Two Year Cycle Enrollments and Classifications" lists every schools "actual" enrollment (doubled for all boys schools). These figures do not include the 1.65 multiplier which it says may be applied. SR does not have the multiplier applied, MC does.

The playoff summary by class lists each team with the 1.65 multiplier added in, if applicable.

Therefore MC is listed as 1237 on the overall page, but 2041.05 on the 7A Playoff Summary page, for example.
Click to expand...

Why do some schools get the multiplier and others don't?
 
M

MC63

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
6,537
2,482
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mchsalumni said:
Interestingly, except for MC not one of the schools you mentioned was on the Montini schedule this year, but ok?
Click to expand...

Over the years ... you play 7A and 8A football. Allso, I said "you play the same schedule as ...".

Thanks for bringing this up.
 
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M

MC63

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
6,537
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mchsalumni said:
Outside the other CCL schools there is no competition for students.
Click to expand...

You act like competition from Rice, Rita and Marist is not a big deal. It's extremely intense. The pressure from other kids, alone, on where to go to high school is enormous.

We also compete with Providence. (Yes, we have kids from way out that way.)

Plus, now we face the destination public schools for kids. Thee's no tuition at Whitney Young.

We have students from Orland Park. They could have gone to Carl Sandburg -- an outstanding school -- also free.

And, if that's not enough, our student-athletes get recruited by the staffs at Phillips and other schools while they're already enrolled at Mt. Carmel.

Montini might have to compete with a particular public school but that's it.

Thanks for bringing this up.
 
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mchsalumni

All-Conference
Sep 24, 2008
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MC63 said:
You act like competition from Rice, Rita and Marist is not a big deal. It's extremely intense. The pressure from other kids, alone, on where to go to high school is enormous.

We also compete with Providence. (Yes, we have kids from way out that way.)

Plus, now we face the destination public schools for kids. Thee's no tuition at Whitney Young.

We have students from Orland Park. They could have gone to Carl Sandburg -- an outstanding school -- also free.

And, if that's not enough, our student-athletes get recruited by the staffs at Phillips and other schools while they're already enrolled at Mt. Carmel.

Montini might have to compete with a particular public school but that's it.

Thanks for bringing this up.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but the competition for students is difficult here as well. We also draw from areas covering WWS, all the Naperville schools, York, Naz, JCA, PC, Lemont, Brook and have students from Orland as well. Recruiting against Fenwick, Benet, SF for local kids makes the challenge even bigger.

The facts for any private school charging tuition are daunting, be it MC or MCHS. The difficulty for MCHS is a physical plant limiting size and a wealth of outstanding public and private schools within 10-20 miles. I understand WY and Phillips are great draws, but if you live in Naperville Central's district it's really tough to pry those kids out.

So saying Montini competes with "a particular public school but that's it" is a bit tone deaf and steeped in old school thinking, as if only the South Side CCL schools matter, no?
 
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M

MC63

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
6,537
2,482
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mchsalumni said:
Agreed, but the competition for students is difficult here as well. We also draw from areas covering WWS, all the Naperville schools, York, Naz, JCA, PC, Lemont, Brook and have students from Orland as well. Recruiting against Fenwick, Benet, SF for local kids makes the challenge even bigger.

The facts for any private school charging tuition are daunting, be it MC or MCHS. The difficulty for MCHS is a physical plant limiting size and a wealth of outstanding public and private schools within 10-20 miles. I understand WY and Phillips are great draws, but if you live in Naperville Central's district it's really tough to pry those kids out.

So saying Montini competes with "a particular public school but that's it" is a bit tone deaf and steeped in old school thinking, as if only the South Side CCL schools matter, no?
Click to expand...
For a particular student, you only have a single public school. Perhaps some distant Catholic school, as well ...but not like the SW side Catholic schools.
 
S

Solid Snake Pliskin

Junior
Nov 3, 2019
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I don't think it's far-fetched that ESL is officiated a certain way. I saw that documentary of Oak Park where coach Hoerster said something similar. Coach Hoerster, I believe is respected here.

But that doesn't make ESL better than H-F.

This whole argument boils down to ESL has a bunch of high level recruits and ESL is scoring a lot of points on outmatched teams. When we look at how they performed against Edwardsville and Neuqua we get more competitive games. How the ESL guys here can't see that and then put two and two together to make four is beyond me.

Let's say ESL played a team even better than NV then ESL looks less dominant and possibly loses. ESL doesn't have to worry about that though. Warren does, LWE does.

My question to ESL guys is when are you ever not the most talented team (most recruits) on the field against an Illinois opponent?
 
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Irish LB

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Apr 11, 2006
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MC63 said:
For a particular student, you only have a single public school. Perhaps some distant Catholic school, as well ...but not like the SW side Catholic schools.
Click to expand...
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Stick to your bubble.
 
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mchsalumni

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Sep 24, 2008
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MC63 said:
For a particular student, you only have a single public school. Perhaps some distant Catholic school, as well ...but not like the SW side Catholic schools.
Click to expand...

I think you need to get a map out and see what the minimal competition looks like for all the private schools out here. Distant? Like 4 miles to SF and IC? Distant like 6 miles to Benet, the greatest HS institution in the galaxy (just ask any alum or parent)? Distant like 8 miles to Naz and Fenwick?

Also, your precious competition on the South Side has produced 4 state championships in the last 40 years. In the last 10 years MC competition has won about 10.

I’m sure you’ve never wondered, but Montini has no boys basketball program of note because of a little school 3 miles away in Westchester, St. Joe’s.

I’ll take your recruiting issues anytime if you’d care to switch. You get to keep the dogshit brown colors though.
 
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jwarigaku

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2006
4,201
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@crusader_of_90

Trinity’s power rating puts them on par with Sterling...if that’s where you want to hang your hat sure but St Rita dismantled Sterling a few weeks ago. ESL is a great team but without actually playing the field the top 4 will be very hard to sort out.

crusader_of_90 said:
Trinity is still playing - even without two Power Five guys and their head coach. They don't suck.

That's a damned respectable schedule.
Click to expand...
 
D

Doppelganger!

Redshirt
Oct 10, 2008
25
33
0
MC63 said:
Why do some schools get the multiplier and others don't?
Click to expand...

The standard in football is at least a combined total of 3 playoff wins in the previous 2 year pairing. In 2017 and 2018 SR won 2 playoff games total, so they are not multiplied. In the same 2 years MC won 6 playoff games total, so they are multiplied.
 
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LHSTigers94

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2004
3,173
2,437
93
jwarigaku said:
@crusader_of_90

Trinity’s power rating puts them on par with Sterling...if that’s where you want to hang your hat sure but St Rita dismantled Sterling a few weeks ago. ESL is a great team but without actually playing the field the top 4 will be very hard to sort out.
Click to expand...

Trinity beat Cardinal Ritter who Naz lost to. You can compare them to whoever you want but keep in mind that spins back to Naz week one game. To be clear Trinity is comparable to Phillips. They look and play very close to Phillips. If they played in Illinois the results will mirror Phillips.
 
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Irish LB

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Apr 11, 2006
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LHSTigers94 said:
Trinity beat Cardinal Ritter who Naz lost to. You can compare them to whoever you want but keep in mind that spins back to Naz week one game. To be clear Trinity is comparable to Phillips. They look and play very close to Phillips. If they played in Illinois the results will mirror Phillips.
Click to expand...
This years Trinity is so drastically different than last years. Ritter lost to Trinity last year not this year. Lutheran North, who Ritter beat in a close game this year, spanked Trinity THIS YEAR.

Do you think we’re all dumb and don’t know about the graduation losses and defections at Trinity THIS YEAR?
 
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jwarigaku

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2006
4,201
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@LHSTigers94

Please help me find Cardinal Ritter on the 2019 schedule below.

8/317:00p
@ Lutheran North (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Lutheran North High School
(L) 25 - 6

Touchdowns Against Cancer Games
Final Results
9/78:00p

@ East St. Louis (East St. Louis, IL)
Location: East St. Louis High School
(L) 32 - 0

9/137:00p

@ Bishop DuBourg/Hancock (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Bishop DuBourg/Hancock High School
(W) 90 - 6
9/207:00p

Living Word Christian (O'Fallon, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
9/27TBA

@ Duchesne (St. Charles, MO)
Location: Duchesne High School
(W) 48 - 0
10/47:00p
Lutheran (St. Peters, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 34 - 14
10/121:00p
@ Miller Career Academy (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Miller Career Academy
(W) 36 - 6
10/18TBA
St. Louis University (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(L) 24 - 16

11/17:00p
Vashon/Northwest Academy of Law (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
11/8TBA
University City (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 49 - 6
11/15TBA
Priory (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 28 - 14
11/23TBA
Lutheran (St. Peters, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 26 - 0
11/301:00p
@ Cassville (Cassville, MO)
Location: Cassville High School
Preview Game


LHSTigers94 said:
Trinity beat Cardinal Ritter who Naz lost to. You can compare them to whoever you want but keep in mind that spins back to Naz week one game. To be clear Trinity is comparable to Phillips. They look and play very close to Phillips. If they played in Illinois the results will mirror Phillips.
Click to expand...
 
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LHSTigers94

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2004
3,173
2,437
93
Irish LB said:
This years Trinity is so drastically different than last years. Ritter lost to Trinity last year not this year. Lutheran North, who Ritter beat in a close game this year, spanked Trinity THIS YEAR.

Do you think we’re all dumb and don’t know about the graduation losses and defections at Trinity THIS YEAR?
Click to expand...

you are reading about Trinity, I watched Trinity. The score between LN and Trinity was 8 to 6 with 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter! This is home for me. That’s like me arguing with you about the ESCC.
 
L

LHSTigers94

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2004
3,173
2,437
93
jwarigaku said:
@LHSTigers94

Please help me find Cardinal Ritter on the 2019 schedule below.

8/317:00p
@ Lutheran North (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Lutheran North High School
(L) 25 - 6

Touchdowns Against Cancer Games
Final Results
9/78:00p

@ East St. Louis (East St. Louis, IL)
Location: East St. Louis High School
(L) 32 - 0

9/137:00p

@ Bishop DuBourg/Hancock (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Bishop DuBourg/Hancock High School
(W) 90 - 6
9/207:00p

Living Word Christian (O'Fallon, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
9/27TBA

@ Duchesne (St. Charles, MO)
Location: Duchesne High School
(W) 48 - 0
10/47:00p
Lutheran (St. Peters, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 34 - 14
10/121:00p
@ Miller Career Academy (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Miller Career Academy
(W) 36 - 6
10/18TBA
St. Louis University (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(L) 24 - 16

11/17:00p
Vashon/Northwest Academy of Law (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
11/8TBA
University City (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 49 - 6
11/15TBA
Priory (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 28 - 14
11/23TBA
Lutheran (St. Peters, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 26 - 0
11/301:00p
@ Cassville (Cassville, MO)
Location: Cassville High School
Preview Game
Click to expand...
No need to
 
S

Solid Snake Pliskin

Junior
Nov 3, 2019
389
244
0
crusader_of_90 said:
Batavia, Trinity and NV to start the year, Edwardsville and NC to end it, NC being the common opponent.

Keep in mind, Trinity is still playing - even without two Power Five guys and their head coach. They don't suck.

That's a damned respectable schedule.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone said the ESL schedule isn't respectable. But Batavia lost by the same amount to ESL and Naz. Lost to SCE. Squeaked one out against GBN and SCN. This was not an upper tier team this year. Don't know anything about Trinity. Edwardsville lost by 22 to ESL and 17 to Minooka. Good team, not top tier. NC had "high hopes" (I sang that song in my head while typing), but didn't beat any teams with a winning record and didn't make the post season. ESL smacked them pretty good.

I'm just not seeing which result on this schedule that says ESL beats H-F. Even Prairie Ridge lost to Huntley. This is not to say ESL cannot or wouldn't beat MC or Naz or LWE or Warren or H-F for that matter. It just seems the only argument is that they look better against lower tier teams than other teams look against higher tiered teams, except Neuqua Valley.
 
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Bowie50

All-Conference
Aug 3, 2013
2,806
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crusader_of_90 said:
Batavia, Trinity and NV to start the year, Edwardsville and NC to end it, NC being the common opponent.

Keep in mind, Trinity is still playing - even without two Power Five guys and their head coach. They don't suck.

That's a damned respectable schedule.
Click to expand...
Eh
 
T

TigerforFlyers

Senior
Nov 7, 2018
638
927
93
jwarigaku said:
@LHSTigers94

Please help me find Cardinal Ritter on the 2019 schedule below.

8/317:00p
@ Lutheran North (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Lutheran North High School
(L) 25 - 6

Touchdowns Against Cancer Games
Final Results
9/78:00p

@ East St. Louis (East St. Louis, IL)
Location: East St. Louis High School
(L) 32 - 0

9/137:00p

@ Bishop DuBourg/Hancock (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Bishop DuBourg/Hancock High School
(W) 90 - 6
9/207:00p

Living Word Christian (O'Fallon, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
9/27TBA

@ Duchesne (St. Charles, MO)
Location: Duchesne High School
(W) 48 - 0
10/47:00p
Lutheran (St. Peters, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 34 - 14
10/121:00p
@ Miller Career Academy (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Miller Career Academy
(W) 36 - 6
10/18TBA
St. Louis University (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(L) 24 - 16

11/17:00p
Vashon/Northwest Academy of Law (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
11/8TBA
University City (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 49 - 6
11/15TBA
Priory (St. Louis, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 28 - 14
11/23TBA
Lutheran (St. Peters, MO)
Location: Trinity Catholic High School
(W) 26 - 0
11/301:00p
@ Cassville (Cassville, MO)
Location: Cassville High School
Preview Game
Click to expand...

Okay Okay!! ESL having two 7A championships, a 7Asemi final loss, a few 7A quarter final losses and on the verge of a fairly dominant but FORCED 6A playoff run along with a very dominant regular season all within the last decade........

CANNOT HOLD A CANDLESTICK to NAZ (who lost to Cardinal Ritter) or LWE (having had a common opponent in NC in which they put a running clock on)...
Regardless of what many others believe, even all the sports writers.

There! One Flyer supporter has said it. Are you satisfied now???

It’s settled!! Go get ready for Thanksgiving!!!

Damn! And I’m annoying???? Lil man complexes at their worse!!!!
 
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L

LHSTigers94

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2004
3,173
2,437
93
Solid Snake Pliskin said:
I don't think anyone said the ESL schedule isn't respectable. But Batavia lost by the same amount to ESL and Naz. Lost to SCE. Squeaked one out against GBN and SCN. This was not an upper tier team this year. Don't know anything about Trinity. Edwardsville lost by 22 to ESL and 17 to Minooka. Good team, not top tier. NC had "high hopes" (I sang that song in my head while typing), but didn't beat any teams with a winning record and didn't make the post season. ESL smacked them pretty good.

I'm just not seeing which result on this schedule that says ESL beats H-F. Even Prairie Ridge lost to Huntley. This is not to say ESL cannot or wouldn't beat MC or Naz or LWE or Warren or H-F for that matter. It just seems the only argument is that they look better against lower tier teams than other teams look against higher tiered teams, except Neuqua Valley.
Click to expand...

its not an argument for ESL. You all are arguing against ESL, because Edgy and four other coaches said this is the best team they have played against in their 20 plus years of coaching. You may want to send this data and logic to them!
 
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jwarigaku

All-Conference
Jan 30, 2006
4,201
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@TigerforFlyers

I’m not willing to say that ESL isn’t the best...I just don’t like people trying to compare teams based on results from different years. ESL May very well be the best but without playing in the same year in an elimination tournament like the playoffs it’s a hard thing to prove.

TigerforFlyers said:
Okay Okay!! ESL having two 7A championships, a 7Asemi final loss, a few 7A quarter final losses and on the verge of a fairly dominant 6A playoff run along with a very dominant regular season all within the last decade........

CANNOT HOLD A CANDLESTICK to NAZ (who lost to Cardinal Ritter) or LWE (having had a common opponent in NC in which they put a running clock on)...
Regardless of what many others believe, even all the sports writers.

There! One Flyer supporter has said it. Are you satisfied now???

It’s settled!! Go get ready for Thanksgiving!!!
Click to expand...
 
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Bowie50

All-Conference
Aug 3, 2013
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TigerforFlyers said:
Okay Okay!! ESL having two 7A championships, a 7Asemi final loss, a few 7A quarter final losses and on the verge of a fairly dominant but FORCED 6A playoff run along with a very dominant regular season all within the last decade........

CANNOT HOLD A CANDLESTICK to NAZ (who lost to Cardinal Ritter) or LWE (having had a common opponent in NC in which they put a running clock on)...
Regardless of what many others believe, even all the sports writers.

There! One Flyer supporter has said it. Are you satisfied now???

It’s settled!! Go get ready for Thanksgiving!!!
Click to expand...
Do you believe that ESL’s program has been a more dominate program than LWE, NAZ or LA over the past decade?
 
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LHSTigers94

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2004
3,173
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93
jwarigaku said:
@TigerforFlyers

I’m not willing to say that ESL isn’t the best...I just don’t like people trying to compare teams based on results from different years. ESL May very well be the best but without playing in the same year in an elimination tournament like the playoffs it’s a hard thing to prove.
Click to expand...

I completely agree and typically will never make such a claim. For the record, Edgy started the ESL best in the state talk, not ESL. Every since then so many shots have been taken at ESL is ridiculous. It comes with the territory. Keep firing!
 
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Solid Snake Pliskin

Junior
Nov 3, 2019
389
244
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LHSTigers94 said:
I completely agree and typically will never make such a claim. For the record, Edgy started the ESL best in the state talk, not ESL. Every since then so many shots have been taken at ESL is ridiculous. It comes with the territory. Keep firing!
Click to expand...
Sadly the conference took the one way to sort all this out away. What are the consequences if a team in the SWC were to request up despite the mandate?

I really want to see the Flyer offense against the Warren defense. I wonder what @micahjones thinks would happen.
 
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LHSTigers94

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2004
3,173
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93
Solid Snake Pliskin said:
Sadly the conference took the one way to sort all this out away. What are the consequences if a team in the SWC were to request up despite the mandate?

I really want to see the Flyer offense against the Warren defense. I wonder what @micahjones thinks would happen.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t mind seeing it. We love competition
 
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O

Oddy

Junior
Aug 28, 2008
1,350
396
83
Maybe this has been covered elsewhere, but how did NV keep their game with ESL so close?
 
T

TigerforFlyers

Senior
Nov 7, 2018
638
927
93
jwarigaku said:
@TigerforFlyers

I’m not willing to say that ESL isn’t the best...I just don’t like people trying to compare teams based on results from different years. ESL May very well be the best but without playing in the same year in an elimination tournament like the playoffs it’s a hard thing to prove.
Click to expand...

I agree that it is both a hard thing to prove or disprove. But a lot of folks have done their damnnest (very poorly I will say) to disprove it and to me that speaks volumes.

I’m almost certain that if there were a thread titled “LWE or Warren or MC Best Team in the State,” ESL followers would have just looked right past it. I could be wrong but for some strange reason, I don’t think so. (This thread didn’t start of with this title by the way, the poster I believe changed it because that’s what it had become from all the naysayers. It actually started as a score update of the ESL and Glenwood game)

Regardless, a wise man once told me that people only try to counterfeit money because of its VALUE. If it had no value, thousands of people wouldn’t spend so much time and effort trying to replicate it. In other words, if it had no value, people would have no interest in it.

The amount of interest that this thread has drawn is a testament to its VALUE/VALIDITY.
 
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M

mchsalumni

All-Conference
Sep 24, 2008
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TigerforFlyers said:
I agree that it is both a hard thing to prove or disprove. But a lot of folks have done their damnnest (very poorly I will say) to disprove it and to me that speaks volumes.

I’m almost certain that if there were a thread titled “LWE or Warren or MC Best Team in the State,” ESL followers would have just looked right past it. I could be wrong but for some strange reason, I don’t think so.

A wise man once told me that people only try to counterfeit money because of its VALUE. If it had no value, thousands of people wouldn’t spend so much time and effort trying to replicate it.

Or particularly in this case, Devalue (disprove) it.
Click to expand...

This post actually made me have a stroke trying to comprehend.

I still think ESL, Warren and LWE are the top 3, in no particular order. Saturday will tell a tale.
 
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