Espn has an article talking about the Big 10 wanting 14-16 teams

[LTblows]

when they expand, not 12. Apparently the powers that be are meeting in DC to discuss. I cannot imagine a world in this would happen, but if they're trying to push it thru....

ETA: http://insider.espn.go.co...2ffeatures%2frumors#2929

 

[RebelBruiser]

The only advantage I see is if it expands your TV footprint. Like if the Big 10 were to add Missouri, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, and say Boston College as a hypothetical, they'd get deeper into the St. Louis market and of course into the NY market as well as the entire state of Pennsylvania and the New England market, which would make them much more attractive for TV packages.

However, if they were to add Iowa State, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Missouri, and Louisville or something like that, I don't see what you gain.

It's got to be all about the TV package, otherwise I can't see the advantage of going for more than 12 teams and a conference title game. 14 or 16 simply means more hands in the pot, and if those extra teams don't add TV markets and enhance the TV deal, then it's just a further split of current revenues.

That's why I don't see the SEC expanding to 14 or 16, unless we could get into different markets, namely Texas or possibly Virginia or North Carolina, and I don't see that happening realistically unless this Big 10 shake up has a bigger fall out than I'm imagining.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

Four divisions with four teams each. It got so diluted that it only lasted a couple years before splitting. Twelve seems to be a happy number for a conference with divisions. With 14 teams you'd have to eliminate a non-conference game to put in a decent schedule (6 division, 3 inter-division, and 3 non-conference). The PAC-10 already does 9 conference games with each team playing all the others (which is why the PAC-10 champion is a more legitimate conference champion than the Big-10 champion).

I think a better way to make money would be to have the conferences agree to series of games against each other each year sort of like how basketball does the "challenges." It would be great to do this with the Big-12.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Our package deal is already going to have games like that televised. It would be entertaining though to see an organized challenge like that, especially if it was over a 2 week period or something like that.

 

[57stratdawg]

fit into this discussion? They have their own national deal with NBC, but I can't see them retaining that if they joined the Big 10.

 

[RebelBruiser]

and I'm sure if the Big 10 picked up ND, they'd have to structure their TV deal to give Notre Dame a bigger share of the TV money than the rest of the league members.

I want to say I heard a couple years back when the most recent SEC deal was finalized that Vanderbilt was actually going to get more money from the SEC TV deal than Notre Dame was going to get from its TV deal, so the NBC contract may not be that good anymore, and with ND falling off a little bit, I don't think NBC will be willing to up their money significantly.

I don't know who the Big 10 will get. There were rumblings about getting Texas in the past to try to expand their TV market, but any expansion they have will be about the TV deal. If they can offer Notre Dame a sweet TV deal, they'll have a shot at ND.

 

[57stratdawg]

and I'm sure if the Big 10 picked up ND, they'd have to structure their TV deal to give Notre Dame a bigger share of the TV money than the rest of the league members.

I want to say I heard a couple years back when the most recent SEC deal was finalized that Vanderbilt was actually going to get more money from the SEC TV deal than Notre Dame was going to get from its TV deal, so the NBC contract may not be that good anymore, and with ND falling off a little bit, I don't think NBC will be willing to up their money significantly.

I don't know who the Big 10 will get. There were rumblings about getting Texas in the past to try to expand their TV market, but any expansion they have will be about the TV deal. If they can offer Notre Dame a sweet TV deal, they'll have a shot at ND.

I've always been under the assumption that revenue sharing was equal in conferences, not matter the institution. Otherwise, what would really be the incentive to join. I don't think you can say 'we're going to give ND 5 million a year, but only give Northwestern 3 million a year.'

I can see Vandy getting more than ND, because Vandy's share of the SEC contract is more than the ND contract.

I think if the Big X wants to add ND, they're going to have to buyout the ND/NBC deal. Who knows if they even have a buyout clause, they might just have to wait until the contract expires.

 

[RebelBruiser]

and I'm sure if the Big 10 picked up ND, they'd have to structure their TV deal to give Notre Dame a bigger share of the TV money than the rest of the league members.



I want to say I heard a couple years back when the most recent SEC deal was finalized that Vanderbilt was actually going to get more money from the SEC TV deal than Notre Dame was going to get from its TV deal, so the NBC contract may not be that good anymore, and with ND falling off a little bit, I don't think NBC will be willing to up their money significantly.



I don't know who the Big 10 will get. There were rumblings about getting Texas in the past to try to expand their TV market, but any expansion they have will be about the TV deal. If they can offer Notre Dame a sweet TV deal, they'll have a shot at ND.

I've always been under the assumption that revenue sharing was equal in conferences, not matter the institution. Otherwise, what would really be the incentive to join. I don't think you can say 'we're going to give ND 5 million a year, but only give Northwestern 3 million a year.'

I can see Vandy getting more than ND, because Vandy's share of the SEC contract is more than the ND contract.

I think if the Big X wants to add ND, they're going to have to buyout the ND/NBC deal. Who knows if they even have a buyout clause, they might just have to wait until the contract expires.

They may have to do that, but I swear I've heard rumblings about having an unbalanced revenue sharing incentive to get ND into the Big 10. I think that's at least what ND wants, and given their nationwide fanbase, I'd say they might have a slight argument for it, especially since they are in the stronger bargaining position. The Big 10 is the conference looking for another member. ND is content as they are. The Big 10 has to find some way to convince ND if they want them, which means they're going to have to give something.

 

[rebelrouseri]

football and this long shot shake up is their only chance. Can't see any other reason for it.

 

[mstateglfr]

However, if they were to add Iowa State, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Missouri, and Louisville or something like that, I don't see what you gain.

How can you not see what this would gain?
--Iowa State would give the Big10 and its network a lock on the entire state in terms of athletics. UNI and Drake are already afterthoughts except for a few games a year in basketball. They would become even less of an importance. ISU and Iowa have a LONG history and the rivalry is huge even with them in different conferences. Adding ISU would give the Big 10 another historical rivalry as well. There are a ton of ISU grads in KC and TX too, so the TV market would be there too. ISU is currently terrible in both football and basketball, but the school has a loyal following and a large following.
--Pittsburgh being added would give the Big10 control of football in PA. ALL of football. It would have the 2 biggest programs in the state and all that TV market. The forced rivalry would be great too!! In basketball, there would still be the Philly teams, but Pitt would do wonders for the Big10...clear upgrade there.
--Add Cincy and you have a lock on OH programs in the BCS. Sure there are those MAC and OVC schools, but the Big10 would have the 2 major programs and ALL THAT MARKET. It would reach into KY as well with Cincy being added. A great addition for both football and basketball.
--Adding Mizzou would give the Big10 a HUGE presence in both STL AND KC. It extends into IA and Arkansas as well as KS. That is a massive population boost and 2 major national cities with large alum populations. It would be a great boost in both basketball AND football.
--Louisville would give the Big10 even more market in KY and IN. It is a national program in terms of a followingand would be a clear upgrade for basketball.

I just dont understand how those schools wouldnt be great in terms of expanding the footprint. Not only expanding it, but making it darker too. Having all the big program schools in OH, PA, IA, and MO would be huge for reaching further into already existing markets.

 

[Tito Cheeseburger Jr]

On Gary Parish's radio show. He said that the Big 10 wants to expand because they get more money per Big 10 Network subscriber in states that have a Big 10 footprint. I don't remember specifics, but it was something like .10 cents per subscriber in non-Big 10 states like Mississippi, but .25 cents per subscriber in Illinois, Michigan, etc. So if they add New York, New Jersey and Missouri, it's going to be a lot of money. Maybe more than the SEC gets from ESPN and CBS. He also said that Indiana and Purdue already get more TV money from the Big 10 Network than ND does from NBC.

He told Parrish if the realignment happens the Big East would probably disintegrate and Memphis would end up in some kind of revamped Sun Belt. He also predicted it would happen sooner rather than later; I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[patdog]

they're going to raid for all of the additions.

 

[RebelBruiser]

I doubt they'll be able to do a whole lot to draw Big 12 schools out of the Big 12, because they've got a pretty good deal going. The Big East is the most volatile and maybe the least certain BCS league in terms of being able to maintain its BCS bid.

If Syracuse and/or Rutgers or Pitt jump ship, then every other decent program in that league is going to be begging the Big 10 to take them too.

Let's say the Big 10 can get all 3 of those schools, or even if they could get Pitt and Rutgers, then Syracuse is going to be more easily pursuaded. Louisville is going to then be clamoring for a bid. So will WVU and Cincinnati. I doubt ND is that concerned with their basketball conference, but I could see that as a way to try to lure ND by making their basketball conference weaker.

No one will want to be among the schools left behind, especially since a few of them (Syracuse, WVU, Pitt, and Rutgers) were already the misfortunate ones to get left in the previous raiding of the Big East. I'd bet if they got a couple to agree, the rest would start begging the Big 10 for a spot, just like they did with the ACC.

 

[57stratdawg]

good conversations.

I would have WV at the top of the this from a competition stand point if I were the best Big X. I realize they won't pull as much in terms of TV market, but I think that'd help them with national interest games more than ND would.

 

[JimC1097]

[No message]

 

[RebelBruiser]

You may be right that as far as programs are concerned it would make sense for them to try to get a good program like WVU to make for more entertaining football, but I think the Big 10 will be almost solely concerned about TV markets with any expansion moreso than they will be competition. That's just my gut feel, because the Big 10 isn't in danger of losing its BCS bid anytime soon.

The Big East, however, if it ever expands or has to replace teams, will be almost solely concerned with competition, because they'll need programs to help validate their status as a BCS league.

 

[Sutterkane]

Remember when Florida State was "good" because they could beat up Wake Forest, Duke, and NC State every week? They added some better teams and low and behold, it's a different ballgame.

Miami's in that boat too with Va Tech. Those 3 teams beat each other into above averageness.

 

[memphisbulldog]

The only advantage I see is if it expands your TV footprint. Like if the Big 10 were to add Missouri, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, and say Boston College as a hypothetical, they'd get deeper into the St. Louis market and of course into the NY market as well as the entire state of Pennsylvania and the New England market, which would make them much more attractive for TV packages.

However, if they were to add Iowa State, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Missouri, and Louisville or something like that, I don't see what you gain.

It's got to be all about the TV package, otherwise I can't see the advantage of going for more than 12 teams and a conference title game. 14 or 16 simply means more hands in the pot, and if those extra teams don't add TV markets and enhance the TV deal, then it's just a further split of current revenues.

That's why I don't see the SEC expanding to 14 or 16, unless we could get into different markets, namely Texas or possibly Virginia or North Carolina, and I don't see that happening realistically unless this Big 10 shake up has a bigger fall out than I'm imagining.

I don't see the SEC expanding in my lifetime. Why would they? The math of all the matchups works perfectly. You may say that adding two (or four) more teams would add two more tv markets but would also add two more teams to split the revenue. What did we gain with that? No reason to expand the SEC. These other conferences have more reasons to expand.

 

[patdog]

We just signed by far the most lucrative TV contract in the country just before the economy tanked. In today's market, there's no one the SEC could add that would add revenue.

 

[patdog]

I would have WV at the top of the this from a competition stand point if I were the best Big X. I realize they won't pull as much in terms of TV market, but I think that'd help them with national interest games more than ND would.

There's a reason Notre Dame has a national TV contract of its own and West Virginia doesn't. And it aint because Notre Dame is a regional draw.