Excuses excuses excuses

[OG Goat Holder]

Until we adopt a niche offensive philosophy where you can do more with less, this desert rambling will continue. That would enable us to focus our talent on defense which is our historical strength.

We keep doing the same stuff, and our will continually and repeatedly blame the QB and once that gets tiring, the OL. Then comes the “we just don’t have the talent” yada yada.

We need to take an honest look at the overall mission statement for our football program. The only guidance we have right now is Showtime and Give More Money.

It isn’t about one coach. I’m talking about an overall philosophy which would then make coach selection easier.

 

[ckDOG]

Clock eating option based offense + top half SEC defense. MSU is capable of both.

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

We should look at getting out of the SEC unless out NFL alumni want to fund our NIL program. This crap with our linemen getting pushed around on both sides of the ball is ridiculous. Of course, I realize this takes a little bit more time, but if we don't see a big jump next year, it may not work. Honestly, watching Kamario last night made me think we can be a lot better next year, but we just have to pay for an o-line.

 

[Chile]

When we had a niche offense, which is definitely what we need, too many fans (and some MSU local sports media) felt we were too good for that, and it was boring.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Clock eating option based offense + top half SEC defense. MSU is capable of both.

This is what Leach did in 2022 and people bitched

 

[theoriginalSALTYdog]

Clock eating option based offense + top half SEC defense. MSU is capable of both.

That's what somewhat made Jackie successful until the wheels fell off the last couple of years. He knew we were never going to out talent SEC opponents year in/out so his philosophy was to slow the game. He brought in huge OL that were road graders and played 3 yards and a cloud of dust football. He wanted to out physical teams on both sides of the LOS. Opponents knew when they played MSU they were in for a tough, physical, hard nosed football game for four quarters.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

This is what Leach did in 2022 and people bitched

Facts. People say he needed to adapt and modernize - they were too stupid to see that he did.

Cohen, for all his faults, knew we needed a different approach to offense. But that whole thing was short lived. We went right back to stupidity.

 

[Lowdog]

Seriously if we don’t get some REAL o-linemen and d-linemen in this upcoming portal cycle we do indeed seriously need to examine the whole football coaching staff. And if Lebby continues his mind boggling offensive play calling he needs to go. Seven attempts at scoring a touchdown from the two yard line and to come away with zero points is truly comical.

And just about every game this year there has been some special teams blunders that has seriously affected the course of the game. Do better!

 

[POTUS]

Your O line can cover up skill position deficiencies. Your skill players can't perform without blocking.

The QB debate is a little silly because how many times have we seen Shapen obliterated by a free rusher who used one of our linemean like a turnstile? Maybe KT could have avoided that rusher, but that it consistently happens is the biggest problem.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Your O line can cover up skill position deficiencies. Your skill players can't perform without blocking.

The QB debate is a little silly because how many times have we seen Shapen obliterated by a free rusher who used one of our linemean like a turnstile? Maybe KT could have avoided that rusher, but that it consistently happens is the biggest problem.

Maybe that’s the niche. Spend our NIL on the lines and settle for second rate skill.

Still would need a plan for that through, to determine what kind of skill to recruit.

 

[bulldoghair]

Until we adopt a niche offensive philosophy where you can do more with less, this desert rambling will continue. That would enable us to focus our talent on defense which is our historical strength.

You say niche but then throw out any notion of run based schemes. Since we can’t run just 7 on 7 schemes which I’m sure you’d love, what 11 man schemes are you specifically referring too when you say niche? Who’s running it and where?

 

[aTotal360]

Until we adopt a niche offensive philosophy where you can do more with less, this desert rambling will continue. That would enable us to focus our talent on defense which is our historical strength.

We keep doing the same stuff, and our will continually and repeatedly blame the QB and once that gets tiring, the OL. Then comes the “we just don’t have the talent” yada yada.

We need to take an honest look at the overall mission statement for our football program. The only guidance we have right now is Showtime and Give More Money.

It isn’t about one coach. I’m talking about an overall philosophy which would then make coach selection easier.

IMO, we have to adopt a philosophy that in-state kids can run and relate to. You'll see "power running" spread on almost every in MS on a friday night. Especially from the OL perspective. It's why it worked with Mullen.

The Air Raid somewhat worked, but we have to consider our coach was one of the inventors and greatest air raid coaches to ever walk the face of the earth.

At MSU, only a couple of transfers have ever seen the concepts of the Veer and Shoot before getting on campus. If it takes kids 3 years to understand it, you're overcomplicating it.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You say niche but then throw out any notion of run based schemes. Since we can’t run just 7 on 7 schemes which I’m sure you’d love, what 11 man schemes are you specifically referring too when you say niche? Who’s running it and where?

The rules that protect passers and receivers make it advantageous to throw the ball.

Most of the niche stuff is going on at lower levels, even high schools. It’s harder to find in college since all programs at lower levels are a revolving door. So everyone is defaulting to the lowest common denominator, which is MuH dUaL tHrEaT which 8 times out of 10 just means a guy that can run but can barely pass adequately. And there’s a limit to that unless you have unreal talent around you.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

IMO, we have to adopt a philosophy that in-state kids can run and relate to. You'll see "power running" spread on almost every in MS on a friday night. Especially from the OL perspective. It's why it worked with Mullen.

The Air Raid somewhat worked, but we have to consider our coach was one of the inventors and greatest air raid coaches to ever walk the face of the earth.

At MSU, only a couple of transfers have ever seen the concepts of the Veer and Shoot before getting on campus. If it takes kids 3 years to understand it, you're overcomplicating it.

Agree with that. Which makes it complicated because you still have to pass to win.

Danny was a genius at simplifying passing concepts.

 

[ckDOG]

This is what Leach did in 2022 and people bitched

Yeah. Wasn't option based but it was high percentage stuff that absolutely drained the clock. A lot easier to convince a DC to work for you as well given the offense does what it can to set you up for success on the other side of the ball. It was boring but was reasonably effective.

I think Mullen's approach was probably the sweet spot for State fans in terms of controlling a game and being somewhat entertaining. But I'm open to any approach that results in long clock eating drives combined with a good defense.

 

[bulldoghair]

The rules that protect passers and receivers make it advantageous to throw the ball.

The rules now of the continuation of the clock after first downs make it advantageous to run the ball and have a pass game that is an extension of that run game. Ex would be Georgia tech, Vandy, Navy ect. Also, if a first down is gained outside the final 2 minutes of the 2nd or 4th quarter, the clock continues running even if the ball carrier goes out of bounds without contact.

 

[bulldoghair]

Most of the niche stuff is going on at lower levels, even high schools.

Ok where? Who is running this niche that you’re saying we should run here?

 

[bulldoghair]

IMO, we have to adopt a philosophy that in-state kids can run and relate to.

Used to be the way. Not anymore with with the transfer portal and NIL. Over half our roster isn’t from Mississippi I think, and only a few starters from Mississippi? Out of the top 11 recruits in the state this year, only 1 is committed to an instate school.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

We should look at getting out of the SEC unless out NFL alumni want to fund our NIL program. This crap with our linemen getting pushed around on both sides of the ball is ridiculous. Of course, I realize this takes a little bit more time, but if we don't see a big jump next year, it may not work. Honestly, watching Kamario last night made me think we can be a lot better next year, but we just have to pay for an o-line.

get out of here with the low T loser sh*t. If Vandy, Illinois and Indiana can complete, we can too. Just have to find the right coach.

 

[aTotal360]

Used to be the way. Not anymore with with the transfer portal and NIL. Over half our roster isn’t from Mississippi I think, and only a few starters from Mississippi? Out of the top 11 recruits in the state this year, only 1 is committed to an instate school.

And we routinely get our butts kicked by MS kids on other schools' rosters.

 

[DawgNsuds]

We should look at getting out of the SEC unless out NFL alumni want to fund our NIL program. This crap with our linemen getting pushed around on both sides of the ball is ridiculous. Of course, I realize this takes a little bit more time, but if we don't see a big jump next year, it may not work. Honestly, watching Kamario last night made me think we can be a lot better next year, but we just have to pay for an o-line.

leaving the conference is certainly not the answer, would be institutional suicide

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

IMO, we have to adopt a philosophy that in-state kids can run and relate to. You'll see "power running" spread on almost every in MS on a friday night. Especially from the OL perspective. It's why it worked with Mullen.

The Air Raid somewhat worked, but we have to consider our coach was one of the inventors and greatest air raid coaches to ever walk the face of the earth.

At MSU, only a couple of transfers have ever seen the concepts of the Veer and Shoot before getting on campus. If it takes kids 3 years to understand it, you're overcomplicating it.

^^^^^ 100% this.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Used to be the way. Not anymore with with the transfer portal and NIL. Over half our roster isn’t from Mississippi I think, and only a few starters from Mississippi? Out of the top 11 recruits in the state this year, only 1 is committed to an instate school.

It’s more ‘the way’ now than it ever has been.

 

[msstatelp1]

We should look at getting out of the SEC unless out NFL alumni want to fund our NIL program. This crap with our linemen getting pushed around on both sides of the ball is ridiculous. Of course, I realize this takes a little bit more time, but if we don't see a big jump next year, it may not work. Honestly, watching Kamario last night made me think we can be a lot better next year, but we just have to pay for an o-line.

Leaving the SEC is the last thing we need to do even if we become the new old Vandy. We’ll never match the money we get anywhere else.

 

[bulldoghair]

And we routinely get our butts kicked by MS kids on other schools' rosters.

10 out of the top 11 this year are not coming here or Ole Miss or Southern because they can’t relate to the schemes being run. They are getting paid big money to leave the state.

 

[bulldoghair]

It’s more ‘the way’ now than it ever has been.

Only 4 players for Ole Miss out the 22 starters on offense and defense are from Mississippi. It’s not because they can’t relate to the schemes being run. Btw what high school schemes should we be running?

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

We should look at getting out of the SEC unless out NFL alumni want to fund our NIL program. This crap with our linemen getting pushed around on both sides of the ball is ridiculous. Of course, I realize this takes a little bit more time, but if we don't see a big jump next year, it may not work. Honestly, watching Kamario last night made me think we can be a lot better next year, but we just have to pay for an o-line.

We get out of the SEC and the fan base including myself actually stops caring.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

We should look at getting out of the SEC unless out NFL alumni want to fund our NIL program. This crap with our linemen getting pushed around on both sides of the ball is ridiculous. Of course, I realize this takes a little bit more time, but if we don't see a big jump next year, it may not work. Honestly, watching Kamario last night made me think we can be a lot better next year, but we just have to pay for an o-line.

Leaving the SEC might be the dumbest idea on this message board.

 

[TheDawg-Pound]

Clock eating option based offense + top half SEC defense. MSU is capable of both.

I think that you'll get it next year. Kt running and making short passes. Defense. We'll see.
Year three kt will start making deep passes. Just can't do what Mullen did and not get fast wr that can go deep when we get a qb that can make the throw. That's if Lebby is here year four. I think people see how we've improved but forget we had a true freshman at qb 2/3 of the year. Year 3 Lebby tells all. Hopefully he makes changes but seems he's full of excuses so I'm not counting on major moves. I hope that I'm wrong.

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

Maybe that’s the niche. Spend our NIL on the lines and settle for second rate skill.

Still would need a plan for that through, to determine what kind of skill to recruit.

For Reference, see Madkin, Wayne or Fitzgerald, Nick. Place said pieces behind a massive bulldozing offensive line of Midwestern Corn & Beef Fed plow boys and go to work. On Defense play a base 4-3-4 and never ever go to a 3 man front again! Blitz every other play. If you get burned you get burned but make the opposing QB crap his pants regardless of sacking him!

now everybody pitch in $50 per month. And on top of that everybody who buys a ticket pitches in $50 per ticket above price and seat licensing.

 

[Perd Hapley]

IMO, we have to adopt a philosophy that in-state kids can run and relate to. You'll see "power running" spread on almost every in MS on a friday night. Especially from the OL perspective. It's why it worked with Mullen.

The Air Raid somewhat worked, but we have to consider our coach was one of the inventors and greatest air raid coaches to ever walk the face of the earth.

At MSU, only a couple of transfers have ever seen the concepts of the Veer and Shoot before getting on campus. If it takes kids 3 years to understand it, you're overcomplicating it.

In the NIL era, it’s never mattered less what “in-state” teams are doing. Whatever success we have moving forward, we’re going to be relying on out of state talent by and large. MS doesn’t produce a lot of talent, and the few good ones we do produce are going to be headed out of state for the forseeable future.

 

[aTotal360]

MS doesn’t produce a lot of talent

Are you serious? I mean, we don't have enough to field 3 D1 playoff teams, but MS certainly produces good talent. We've done a crap job of evaluating and landing them since Mullen left.

One of them just piled up 300 yards on us.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Are you serious? I mean, we don't have enough to field 3 D1 playoff teams, but MS certainly produces good talent. We've done a crap job of evaluating and landing them since Mullen left.

One of them just piled up 300 yards on us.

We produce a good amount of talent per capita, but that doesn’t mean very much when we have a small population, share the state with what is currently a perennial Top 15 program, and are surrounded on all sides by programs that dwarf ours in terms of resources.

It was posted the other day that 11 of the top 12 HS players in Mississippi were headed out of state, and it was a similar percentage last year and the year before. 5 years ago, that was unheard of. It’s not a coincidence that it started happening as soon as the NIL floodgates opened.

In this NIL / portal climate, HS recruiting in general really doesn’t matter like it used to, but it especially doesn’t matter at the state / local level. If we have some 3* LB nearby that we think might be a decent player but needs some work, he wants like $50k per year or something….well there’s 100 other guys from coast to coast that we could probably replace him with, and its pretty likely one of them might only want $25k-$30k. It’s all about the money now.

 

[aTotal360]

We produce a good amount of talent per capita, but that doesn’t mean very much when we have a small population, share the state with what is currently a perennial Top 15 program, and are surrounded on all sides by programs that dwarf ours in terms of resources.

I was posted the other day that 11 of the top 12 HS players in Mississippi were headed out of state, and it was a similar percentage last year and the year before. 5 years ago, that was unheard of. It’s not a coincidence that it started happening as soon as the NIL floodgates opened.

Not producing them and not landing them are two totally different conversations.

 

[TaleofTwoDogs]

10 out of the top 11 this year are not coming here or Ole Miss or Southern because they can’t relate to the schemes being run. They are getting paid big money to leave the state.

FIFY.

 

[bulldoghair]

FIFY.

I meant to say “not” because.

10 out of the top 11 this year are not coming here or Ole Miss or Southern NOT because they can’t relate to the schemes being run. They are getting paid big money to leave the state.

 

[PrimeDog]

You say niche but then throw out any notion of run based schemes. Since we can’t run just 7 on 7 schemes which I’m sure you’d love, what 11 man schemes are you specifically referring too when you say niche? Who’s running it and where?

He doesn’t know. He just likes saying niche offense.
We need an offense that can pass the ball.

It’s amazing to me that Freeze and Lane have both run offenses right up the road that can scheme to get WR wide open but we can’t figure it out. And **** we have a HC that was ON THAT STAFF. I don’t care if he was a puppet or not, he had a hand in it.

We just try and make simple football the most complicated it can be with our suck *** teams.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

He doesn’t know. He just likes saying niche offense.
We need an offense that can pass the ball.

It’s amazing to me that Freeze and Lane have both run offenses right up the road that can scheme to get WR wide open but we can’t figure it out. And **** we have a HC that was ON THAT STAFF. I don’t care if he was a puppet or not, he had a hand in it.

We just try and make simple football the most complicated it can be with our suck *** teams.

Willie Fritz is the obvious one. Too late for that now, he likely isn’t leaving again.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

In the NIL era, it’s never mattered less what “in-state” teams are doing. Whatever success we have moving forward, we’re going to be relying on out of state talent by and large. MS doesn’t produce a lot of talent, and the few good ones we do produce are going to be headed out of state for the forseeable future.

Overly dramatic. We still have to get high school players. But I do agree that portal guys can come from anywhere.

 

[bulldoghair]

Willie Fritz is the obvious one. Too late for that now, he likely isn’t leaving again.

Across 12 full seasons plus the ongoing 2025 season through 10 games, Willie Fritz’s teams have attempted 6,640 rushes and 3,423 passes, for a total of 10,063 offensive plays. This equates to a career run-pass split of 66% runs vs. 34% passes. You sir are a hypocritical closet mouth breathing RuNdAbAwLer.