Explain this to me...

[RonnyAtmosphere]

Fact: Dan Mullen has never been a head coach in his life.

General consensus on Dan Mullen From Bulldog Nation:

"Our program instantly improved with the hiring of Dan Mullen."

"Dan Mullen's offensive scheme guarantees our offense will be better next year."

"I am buying season tickets now, because Dan Mullen's offense will be fun to watch."

"Dan Mullen will recruit the kind of players we need to win a championship."

"Dan Mullen has coached great QB's & in NC games... he is going to be a great head coach!"

I could go on forever, but you get the picture.

********************************

Now, as for John Cohen:

<table class="wikitable"> <tbody> <tr> <th></th> <th colspan="4">Overall</th> <th colspan="4">Conference</th> <th></th> </tr> <tr> <th>Year</th> <th>School</th> <th>W</th> <th>L</th> <th>T</th> <th>Pct</th> <th>W</th> <th>L</th> <th>T</th> <th>Pct</th> <th>Notes</th> </tr> <tr> <td>1998</td> <td>Northwestern State</td> <td>40</td> <td>20</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>15</td> <td>8</td> <td>0</td> <td>.652</td> <td>Southland Champions</td> </tr> <tr> <td>1999</td> <td>Northwestern State</td> <td>38</td> <td>21</td> <td>0</td> <td>.644</td> <td>18</td> <td>9</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2000</td> <td>Northwestern State</td> <td>30</td> <td>26</td> <td>0</td> <td>.536</td> <td>14</td> <td>13</td> <td>0</td> <td>.519</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2001</td> <td>Northwestern State</td> <td>38</td> <td>17</td> <td>0</td> <td>.691</td> <td>19</td> <td>8</td> <td>0</td> <td>.704</td> <td>Southland Champions</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2004</td> <td>Kentucky</td> <td>24</td> <td>30</td> <td>0</td> <td>.444</td> <td>7</td> <td>23</td> <td>0</td> <td>.233</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2005</td> <td>Kentucky</td> <td>29</td> <td>27</td> <td>0</td> <td>.518</td> <td>7</td> <td>22</td> <td>0</td> <td>.318</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2006</td> <td>Kentucky</td> <td>44</td> <td>17</td> <td>0</td> <td>.721</td> <td>20</td> <td>10</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>SEC Champions, NCAA Regional</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2007</td> <td>Kentucky</td> <td>34</td> <td>19</td> <td>1</td> <td>.732</td> <td>13</td> <td>16</td> <td>1</td> <td>.533</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2008</td> <td>Kentucky</td> <td>44</td> <td>19</td> <td>0</td> <td>.698</td> <td>16</td> <td>14</td> <td>0</td> <td>.533</td> <td>NCAA Regional</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2009</td> <td>Mississippi State</td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">Northwestern State Totals</td> <td>146</td> <td>84</td> <td>0</td> <td>.635</td> <td>66</td> <td>38</td> <td>0</td> <td>.635</td> <td>2 Southland Championships</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">Kentucky Totals</td> <td>175</td> <td>112</td> <td>1</td> <td>.608</td> <td>63</td> <td>85</td> <td>1</td> <td>.423</td> <td>1 SEC Championship, 2 NCAA Regional</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">Overall Totals</td> <td>321</td> <td>196</td> <td>1</td> <td>.620</td> <td>129</td> <td>123</td> <td>1</td> <td>.510</td> <td>3 conf. championships, 2 NCAA Regional</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Fact: Cohen is a proven head coach who has already taken one of the crappiest baseball programs in the nation (Kentucky) & has turned them into a contender.

General consensus on John Cohen From Bulldog Nation:

"It's going to be a long year."

"It will take Cohen at least 3 years to re-build the MSU baseball program."

"I think a regional is out of the question this year."

"Cohen is walking into the mess Polk left; please be patient."

Anyway, please explain why the football coach who has proven nothing is going to have MSU in the mix this fall but the baseball coach who has proven everything as a HC is going to be a flop this spring.

Seeing how both MSU's football talent & MSU's baseball talent are essentially the same as far as having rosters full of mediocre talent, I don't get it.

Explain to me how Mullen (who has never been a HC) is going to shine while Cohen (who is a proven HC) is going to struggle.

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

Fact: Dan Mullen has never been a head coach in his life.

General consensus on Dan Mullen From Bulldog Nation:

"Our program instantly improved with the hiring of Dan Mullen."

"Dan Mullen's offensive scheme guarantees our offense will be better next year."

"I am buying season tickets now, because Dan Mullen's offense will be fun to watch."

"Dan Mullen will recruit the kind of players we need to win a championship."

"Dan Mullen has coached great QB's & in NC games... he is going to be a great head coach!"

I could go on forever, but you get the picture.

********************************

Now, as for John Cohen:

<table class="wikitable"> <tbody> <tr> <th></th> <th colspan="4">Overall</th> <th colspan="4">Conference</th> <th></th> </tr> <tr> <th>Year</th> <th>School</th> <th>W</th> <th>L</th> <th>T</th> <th>Pct</th> <th>W</th> <th>L</th> <th>T</th> <th>Pct</th> <th>Notes</th> </tr> <tr> <td>1998</td> <td>Northwestern State</td> <td>40</td> <td>20</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>15</td> <td>8</td> <td>0</td> <td>.652</td> <td>Southland Champions</td> </tr> <tr> <td>1999</td> <td>Northwestern State</td> <td>38</td> <td>21</td> <td>0</td> <td>.644</td> <td>18</td> <td>9</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2000</td> <td>Northwestern State</td> <td>30</td> <td>26</td> <td>0</td> <td>.536</td> <td>14</td> <td>13</td> <td>0</td> <td>.519</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2001</td> <td>Northwestern State</td> <td>38</td> <td>17</td> <td>0</td> <td>.691</td> <td>19</td> <td>8</td> <td>0</td> <td>.704</td> <td>Southland Champions</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2004</td> <td>Kentucky</td> <td>24</td> <td>30</td> <td>0</td> <td>.444</td> <td>7</td> <td>23</td> <td>0</td> <td>.233</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2005</td> <td>Kentucky</td> <td>29</td> <td>27</td> <td>0</td> <td>.518</td> <td>7</td> <td>22</td> <td>0</td> <td>.318</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2006</td> <td>Kentucky</td> <td>44</td> <td>17</td> <td>0</td> <td>.721</td> <td>20</td> <td>10</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>SEC Champions, NCAA Regional</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2007</td> <td>Kentucky</td> <td>34</td> <td>19</td> <td>1</td> <td>.732</td> <td>13</td> <td>16</td> <td>1</td> <td>.533</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2008</td> <td>Kentucky</td> <td>44</td> <td>19</td> <td>0</td> <td>.698</td> <td>16</td> <td>14</td> <td>0</td> <td>.533</td> <td>NCAA Regional</td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>2009</td> <td>Mississippi State</td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">Northwestern State Totals</td> <td>146</td> <td>84</td> <td>0</td> <td>.635</td> <td>66</td> <td>38</td> <td>0</td> <td>.635</td> <td>2 Southland Championships</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">Kentucky Totals</td> <td>175</td> <td>112</td> <td>1</td> <td>.608</td> <td>63</td> <td>85</td> <td>1</td> <td>.423</td> <td>1 SEC Championship, 2 NCAA Regional</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">Overall Totals</td> <td>321</td> <td>196</td> <td>1</td> <td>.620</td> <td>129</td> <td>123</td> <td>1</td> <td>.510</td> <td>3 conf. championships, 2 NCAA Regional</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Fact: Cohen is a proven head coach who has already taken one of the crappiest baseball programs in the nation (Kentucky) & has turned them into a contender.

General consensus on John Cohen From Bulldog Nation:

"It's going to be a long year."

"It will take Cohen at least 3 years to re-build the MSU baseball program."

"I think a regional is out of the question this year."

"Cohen is walking into the mess Polk left; please be patient."

Anyway, please explain why the football coach who has proven nothing is going to have MSU in the mix this fall but the baseball coach who has proven everything as a HC is going to be a flop this spring.

Seeing how both MSU's football talent & MSU's baseball talent are essentially the same as far as having rosters full of mediocre talent, I don't get it.

Explain to me how Mullen (who has never been a HC) is going to shine while Cohen (who is a proven HC) is going to struggle.

 

[8dog]

far more dependent on the individual talents of players than football is.

 

[AzzurriDawg4]

That a coach and his "scheme" or philosophy have a much greater impact on football than baseball.

 

[BoJangles921]

is MSU we are talking about here, where facts, logic and reason are never part of any equation when we are talking about our head coaches in any sport.

What do I win?</p>

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

... Mullen can take an essentially untalented bunch & win while Cohen doesn't have that luxury?

I see what you are saying, but please name me one SEC football team that doesn't depend on the individual talent of the QB to win.

 

[DowntownDawg]

...and I think the first year for both programs will be comparably tough.

 

[patdog]

Anybody who expects MSU baseball or football not to struggle mightily in 2009 is fooling themselves. Both programs will improve, but it'll take them a couple of years. And Cohen will win a division title here long before Mullen ever does.

 

[8dog]

Vanderbilt 2008, South Carolina 2008, Kentucky 2008... And the greatest example of all: Mississippi State 2007.

Quarterback is certainly important, but you have 21 other players you deal with and countless schemes, formations, decisions, etc. to overcome.

In baseball, in the end, its can your batter hit whats being thrown at him.

 

[Chesusdog]

It's two different sports. One can get by with marginal talent and good coaching, while the other requires exceptional talent regardless of the coaching. The general consensus has been that Polk left the cupboard rather bare. Croom brought in some talent, he just didn't have the first damn clue how to utilize it.

I believe we'll be be okay in baseball. Definitely better than last year.

Edit to add: See MSU football 1999. 10-2 with Madkin at QB.

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

...if you think both Mullen & Cohen are in for a rough first 2 years.

I've seen nothing but sunshine about an unproven head coach in one sport & a lot of "woe is us" posts about a proven head coach in another sport.

I like both Mullen & Cohen as hires.

But at this juncture, Cohen has more reality on his side than Mullen.

I'm trying to understand why all the love for the unproven guy and all the yawning over the proven guy.

 

[futaba.79]

just wanted to point that out.

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

...& my quotes are fairly accurate if not perfect.

Once this board turns into the New York Times editorial section, I'll try to clean it up.

 

[Coach34]

In football, you can win 25% of your SEC games and still be in a bowl with the right schedule.
In baseball, that aint happening- 25% wins and you wont be going anywhere....

Baseball comes down to pitching and hitting, and I think most people feel we are really lacking in those departments. Its going to take a couple of years to get the people in to get the job done. Personally, I think Cohen will make us alot better and we will be on the cusp on getting into a regional.

Football-wise, I think the perception is that we only need a few players to plug in to get us to the 7 win level. I think this perception is dead-on. We are a few playmakers away from getting to the 6-7 win mark.</p>

 

[dawgstudent]

or is that only your own posts?

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

...my beautiful mind.

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

In football, you can win 25% of your SEC games and still be in a bowl with the right schedule.
In baseball, that aint happening- 25% wins and you wont be going anywhere....

Baseball comes down to pitching and hitting, and I think most people feel we are really lacking in those departments. Its going to take a couple of years to get the people in to get the job done. Personally, I think Cohen will make us alot better and we will be on the cusp on getting into a regional.

Football-wise, I think the perception is that we only need a few players to plug in to get us to the 7 win level. I think this perception is dead-on. We are a few playmakers away from getting to the 6-7 win mark.</p>

... I think the baseball program is ahead (if not way ahead) of the football program.

Then you add to the fact the baseball program has the proven coach while the football program doesn't.

Yet it's the unproven football coach who is held in the highest esteem.

Lastly, I don't know why you are saying the baseball team doesn't have hitters; that's one thing the baseball team does have.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....I would say that a .500 season in football would be about what we could expect and maybe a 30 win season in baseball? The difference is, around here 7-5 in football (.58 winning percentage) would be a great accomplishment and a .58 winning percentage in baseball would be ho-hum.

 

[patdog]

As I recall pretty much everyone on here was excited when we hired him. But most of us are realistic enough to know that it's pretty damn hard to do much with a 23-32 team in your first year when you can't even bring your own recruits in until your second year.

And I think most of us are realistic enough to realize that it would take a miracle for us to go 6-6 in football this fall.</p>

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

pitching staff is really suspect right now. Pitchers are a premium and we have a lot of unknown about our staff which leads folks to believe that it will take a couple of recruiting seasons for Cohen to shore up that part of the baseball program. Sure, they can surprise us and be much better than anticipated but if they aren't, we are going to have a hard time outscoring folks.

As for football, I think everyone believes we have a pretty decent talent pool that was languishing in the scheme that was force fed to them. You take a good (not great but good) talent pool of players with a new philosophy and coaching staff and you can have more success faster than your baseball counterparts.

All in all, I actually haven't read much buy enthusiasm for both programs and high expectations.

-----------
Edited: this should have been in the main thread.

 

[Frexzell]

We have two different standards for both sports:

1. In baseball, we expect to win. Anything short of a hosting a NCAA Tournament is generally considered a failure.

2. In football, we expect to lose. Six wins is an unquestionable success.

 

[Todd4State]

As far as pitching- we have two guys that were drafted out of high school- Forrest Moore and Devin Jones and then we have a Jr. in Ricky Bowen who had a great year in the Cape Cod League. Now, I'm not going to say that we are deep here by any means, in fact I think pitching is what it going to keep us from winning a regional. At the same time, I don't think that the cupboard is bare.

Cody Freeman is a pretty good catcher and should get better.

I think that Conner Powers is going to be a very high draft pick next year. He has power and can hit for average. If he can improve his defense a little bit, he might even have a chance to be a late first round pick. He looks like a major league player. He also led the Cape Cod League in home runs.

I really like Grant Hogue to. He's going to lead the SEC in steals with Cohen at the helm, and is a great lead off hitter. Ryan Collins is also a very good player who was just a Fr. last year. I think Luke Adkins is going to come in and help us out a lot to. Mark Goforth is another guy that I think is really going to thrive under Cohen.

Now, if you're keeping score at home, that's three infield poisitons that are up for grabs. One of those is going to go to Justin Bussey who will probably also be our closer.

OK, the bottom line- We were a very poorly coached baseball team last year. A lot of these same guys also went to Omaha a couple of years ago. We had possibly the worst pitching coach in the country last year, and I'm not exagerrating. Our pitching staff was bad because they had no plan- this per some of the pitchers, and were pitching hurt. Polk and McNickle also could not manage our bullpen or pitching staff, often times leaving them in too long and making pitchers warm up too quickly and having to bring them into the game before they were loose. Those are things that contribute to pitchers breaking down. Of course, when pitchers are hurt, their arm angles go down, the ball goes up, and they get ripped, and then their ERA goes through the roof.

Now, offense. You have to be aggressive to be a good hitter. I don't really know if I should blame Raffo, or blame Raffo for taking orders. There were many times we would go up there trying to "work the count" and draw a walk. Sometimes that's OK- if you are a lead off hitter for example. If you're the number three hitter- find a pitch to hit and rip it. Often times I would see our hitters walk up to the plate in a scoring situation and our hitters would look like they were constipated and were hyperventilating at the same time. It was pitiful. Also, I believe we led the SEC in double play balls last year. That was a direct result of not doing things on the basepaths to try to create runs. If a pitcher knows that you are not going to run, he can focus more on getting the hitter out. If there is a chance that you might do something, it takes away his concentration from the hitter, thus making it easier for you to hit, even if nothing is on. Running also puts pressure on the defense, it takes you out of double play situations, and it puts you in scoring position.

And last thing- defense. We were HORRIBLE last year on defense. That is one thing that stood out last year. Again, that's coaching. And again, you have to make yourlself like playing defense. None of our guys wanted the ball hit to them last year. You have to be aggressive on defense and go get the ball and make the play.

Everything I just talked about is correctable. Much of it is attitude. The hardest thing to correct is going to be pitcher conditioning, but I really think that even though we lack depth there, we have enough to make a Regional and possibly do some things in late May and June.

 

[Bob Sacamano.sixpack]

nm

 

[OEMDawg]

I think you are seeing what you want to see to fit your argument, hypocrite.

I haven't seen many people talking bowls and big wins because of Mullen. Being optimistic is one thing, being stupid is another. It's not like we have a lot of experienced talent at QB and WR to run the spread to perfection in his first year.

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

...how he's expected to do little to nothing to improve the team this spring.

Anyway, isn't Cohen going to have all those hurt players back? You know, the 3-4 best players on the team last year that were hurt all season? If you are going to quote last year's record, you need to also mention that.

And as far as going 6-6 in football next fall, I think 80% of the posters on this board expect that.

That would explain why Dan Mullen, despite having no head coaching experience, is constantly praised here.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

There is the perception, that if he has the talent present...that he could win...thus, not much talent, and so an incoming coach would have a hard time...especially with pitchers, which are vitally important.

With football it's just a hopeful rush of enthusiasm. Croom was not going to be able to do it (or over long term he had not prove'n it), almost no matter what...and the general consensus was, that coaching, and not totally talent ...was the problem with football.

Also... like myself, while I support baseball and basketball... football is the real deal, the rest of it... is just filling in the blanks.
Look at the attendance, and what pays the bills.

 

[rebel law]

I think that Conner Powers is going to be a very high draft pick next year. He has power and can hit for average. If he can improve his defense a little bit, he might even have a chance to be a late first round pick. He looks like a major league player.

I just don't see that happening at all.

 

[Todd4State]

I'm much more worried about the o-line. And yes, I know that they were very young last year, and that the spread is going to be more simple, and the QB will have more time because he will be in the shotgun a majority of the time, and I do think that all of those things along with more experience will help.

However, we were probably the smallest o-line in the SEC and the least talented as a unit in the SEC. And that's what worries me. Those are two things that you can only mask so much.

I think Lee is competent and has experience now, and a lot of WR's can come into D-I and have success right away, so whether we go with the JUCO guys or Fr., I think we'll be fine there. And RB has always been a strength.

 

[DCReb.sixpack]

Fantastic old school reference.

 

[dawgphd]

asdf

 

[mredge]

"Dan Mullen's offensive scheme guarantees our offense will be better next year."

The minute Croom was fired the MSU offense improved. They could have hired me and it would be better.

</p>

 

[msudawg12]

I want to say that Cohen will greatly improve the program.

But, as for this year. I am in agreement with all of the people that it will be a struggle (i do think we'll make regionals though)

Like they said a coach's philosophy cannot itself change a baseball game. It can effect the season by evoking confidence and a different attitude though.

The fact is, though, that when those 9 guys go out to play defense or that one guy is batting; the coach's philosophy cannot change the outcome