2002 was pretty exciting actually. Came up short but exciting.Agreed. Plus we endured the 2000-2004 years. God that was horrible.
2002 was pretty exciting actually. Came up short but exciting.Agreed. Plus we endured the 2000-2004 years. God that was horrible.
He is smarter than you and that’s something you shouldn’t disregard.Franklin is the Marty Schottenheimer of college football coaches.
He is not bad, but he is not great either. He’s the guy that the top coaches beat to fatten up their records of “quality wins”.
The statement of his at the top of this thread is classic Franklin.. a statement that has a touch of self criticism with an excuse built in.
Franklin is one of those guys we all know. The kind who thinks he is smarter than the rest of us. Their act eventually gets old. You come to either learn to disregard them or hate their guts.
I have come to disregard him. I know his act and his talent level is well established. College football is no longer what it was. If it was I would be able to summon up some old fashioned disgust for him.
I just no longer care as much as I used to care.
Definitely horrible.Agreed. Plus we endured the 2000-2004 years. God that was horrible.
Yes. He should have called it after the Orange Bowl win against FSU and the 2005 season.Definitely horrible.
I'm amazed that Joe was able to turn it around after that. From 2005-2011 he averaged nearly 10 wins and won 2 BiG titles. He wasn't healthy enough to make recruiting visits.
He's unfortunately peaked. Granted he peaked at pretty good, but its obvious he's not getting to great.Concerning issue for Franklin is recruiting, the one thing people think he is really good at. Current class is 16th overall and fourth in the B1G (behind OSU, USC, Oregon), but good chance Michigan passes Penn State before the end of the cycle, and if FSU joins at some point they likely would consistently rank higher. This is an issue because Franklin's teams traditionally play to their recruiting ranking. If he starts to have several back quarter of the Top 20 recruiting classes, it's going to get rougher for him. Franklin is a good recruiter but it's getting tougher to compete with schools with hefty NIL programs.
Is a sport that requires that you lead in spending in order to succeed really a sport?Concerning issue for Franklin is recruiting, the one thing people think he is really good at. Current class is 16th overall and fourth in the B1G (behind OSU, USC, Oregon), but good chance Michigan passes Penn State before the end of the cycle, and if FSU joins at some point they likely would consistently rank higher. This is an issue because Franklin's teams traditionally play to their recruiting ranking. If he starts to have several back quarter of the Top 20 recruiting classes, it's going to get rougher for him. Franklin is a good recruiter but it's getting tougher to compete with schools with hefty NIL programs.
Is a sport that requires that you lead in spending in order to succeed really a sport?
a sport without sportsmanship- I think Joe would have walked awayI think so. A ‘fair’ sport? No.
the hump got smaller with regards to making the playoffs
I think so. A ‘fair’ sport? No.
a sport without sportsmanship- I think Joe would have walked away
He exaggerated a bit- it's actually more like 90% based on winning percentages of all 134 teams over the last ten years. But clearly you deserve better. I'm sure Alabama could use another fan.LMAO:
”….but I would also say that 99% of the college football programs in the country would die to
be where we're at.“
Coach single-handedly publicly embraced without embarrassment the 9 and 3 lifestyle. Is he oblivious or genius?
The balls on this guy I freaking swear.
Write bigger checksSometimes there are things I feel more than know; I don't feel good about our future at all.
Let's be honest and admit we failed to get a team to the BCS. It never ******* happened.
Three of those years were bad out what 43 years. Yes we really had to endure under Joe. lol.Agreed. Plus we endured the 2000-2004 years. God that was horrible.
How long did it take Joe to have back-to-back undefeated seasons? If it wasn't a voting system in those years, Joe might have won 4 or 5 more National Championships than he did.
hell I’d be happy if Franklin just got us in the conversation when November rolls in
Franklin is sitting on $50 million of guaranteed salary…..as such, I don’t think he really cares about his bosses.I don’t think Franklin makes this sort of statement (with the 99% rationalization) unless he knows that his bosses are of the same mindset.
We Are…Maligned!Aligned!
This is not a knock on your comment. Just an observation. Some put Joe on a pedestal for averaging “nearly 10 wins” then criticize Franklin relentlessly for 10-11 wins. This is why the constant comparisons between the two. Why is good for one, but bad for the other? I’m sure someone will do some serious mental gymnastics to try and explain it, but it doesn’t make sense.Definitely horrible.
I'm amazed that Joe was able to turn it around after that. From 2005-2011 he averaged nearly 10 wins and won 2 BiG titles. He wasn't healthy enough to make recruiting visits.
To be fair, the BCS was on Joe’s watch and you are correct.Sometimes there are things I feel more than know; I don't feel good about our future at all.
Let's be honest and admit we failed to get a team to the BCS. It never ******* happened.
Time to beat Mich and Ohio State in the same season. Franhlin needs to beat both teams to become a top coach..
Not going to happen since we don’t have UMich and tOSU both scheduled in the same year in 2024-7!
This is not a knock on your comment. Just an observation. Some put Joe on a pedestal for averaging “nearly 10 wins” then criticize Franklin relentlessly for 10-11 wins. This is why the constant comparisons between the two. Why is good for one, but bad for the other? I’m sure someone will do some serious mental gymnastics to try and explain it, but it doesn’t make sense.
I respectfully think you missed my point. Why were “nearly 10 win seasons” from 2005-2011 acceptable for Joe (as you insinuated in your previous post) and not for Franklin? It wasn’t like Joe was consistently beating OSU, Michigan, or Iowa during that timeframe. Clearly, he was getting outcoached and out recruited during that timeframe, but you used it as a positive for his coaching career. Why? And for the record, you compared the two.I respectfully disagree with your “nearly 10 wins” pedestal comment as the reason for many fans admiration for Joe Paterno.
The admiration has more to do with the facts that:
1) Paterno actually won 2 National Championships
2) Played in 4 National Championship games
3) Had a 18 year stretch (1968 - 1986) where his team was in a National Title conversation at least once every 4 years on average.
4) Paterno actually beat the great teams of his era such as: Nebraska, Notre Dame, Georgia, Miami, Pittsburgh, Alabama, USC, and Ohio State.
In summary, it was never about “nearly 10 wins” a season. It was about being competitive with the big boy teams and being in serious consideration for a National Title. By the way, it took Joe only 3 years to receive National Title consideration (PSU ranked #2 in 1968 and 1969).
So, please, please, please, never try to compare Franklin to Joe. It does a disservice to Franklin.
9-4. Lost to Iowa, Michigan, Ohio State and ended the season with a lackluster loss to Auburn in the bowl game with the offense only scoring 9 points and LJ Jr publicly ripping the offense for being vanilla, predictable, and outdated. How would this board have handled this season if Franklin was coach?2002 was pretty exciting actually. Came up short but exciting.
People are comparing 4 losing seasons in 5 years to not winning 1-2 games a year and they think it's a sound argument. Franklin(or any HC) would never get to year 3 in that scenario and I get why Joe did as he wasn't going to get fired due to his history and social media was really just gearing up back then. No coach at any semi blue blood school would last through 2 losing years in a row today, never mind 4 in 5. Different times and situations.9-4. Lost to Iowa, Michigan, Ohio State and ended the season with a lackluster loss to Auburn in the bowl game with the offense only scoring 9 points and LJ Jr publicly ripping the offense for being vanilla, predictable, and outdated. How would this board have handled this season if Franklin was coach?
This is not a knock on your comment. Just an observation. Some put Joe on a pedestal for averaging “nearly 10 wins” then criticize Franklin relentlessly for 10-11 wins. This is why the constant comparisons between the two. Why is good for one, but bad for the other? I’m sure someone will do some serious mental gymnastics to try and explain it, but it doesn’t make sense.
This is not a knock on your comment. Just an observation. Some put Joe on a pedestal for averaging “nearly 10 wins” then criticize Franklin relentlessly for 10-11 wins. This is why the constant comparisons between the two. Why is good for one, but bad for the other? I’m sure someone will do some serious mental gymnastics to try and explain it, but it doesn’t make sense.
Nice spin guys. You guys are obsessed with comparing franklin to Joe. Joe of course from 2000-2004 overall. lol. Franklin isn’t in joes orbit. We hope he can be. He has a chance to start that process this year with a 12 team playoff. It is up to him. Also franklin has never ever had a one loss team. Joe had 12 no loss or 1 loss teams at seasons end. Imagine if these 12 teams were in the 4 team playoff. Oh my! So just stop the comparison.People are comparing 4 losing seasons in 5 years to not winning 1-2 games a year and they think it's a sound argument. Franklin(or any HC) would never get to year 3 in that scenario and I get why Joe did as he wasn't going to get fired due to his history and social media was really just gearing up back then. No coach at any semi blue blood school would last through 2 losing years in a row today, never mind 4 in 5. Different times and situations.
No coach would get away with admitting they got lazy with recruiting or dare to say they were too big to go on visits like Joe did. On the flip side not too many coaches are getting fired for winning 10+ games a year and going to NYD 6 bowls. People point to UGa and Richt didn't look at his last 5 years when they make that arguement. Buy hey, if you know this coach is under a long contract so you take the field and say he isn't winning PSU a MNC or finishing in the top 4 so he needs to go.....knowing it simply cannot happen.p
Yeah, the mental gymnastics are mostly done by the Franklin fan club in this debate.Nice spin guys. You guys are obsessed with comparing franklin to Joe. Joe of course from 2000-2004 overall. lol. Franklin isn’t in joes orbit. We hope he can be. He has a chance to start that process this year with a 12 team playoff. It is up to him. Also franklin has never ever had a one loss team. Joe had 12 no loss or 1 loss teams at seasons end. Imagine if these 12 teams were in the 4 team playoff. Oh my! So just stop the comparison.
C'mon. The man stayed too long. remove youThree of those years were bad out what 43 years. Yes we really had to endure under Joe. lol.
Well, yes, they were bad. This is when he should have retired. I felt sorry for him when he would always say he only had football in his life. The far worse years were 2011-13 however.Three of those years were bad out what 43 years. Yes we really had to endure under Joe. lol.
Hey let's take the field on that one? Even more so at a school that fights itself and sets itself up for failure due to allowing the program to become complacent and fall behind. They still are behind the game as it evolves, but I'm sure we're just a Joe guy coaching again from correcting all those wrongs. Take Franklin out of the picture, not a single top 5 coach is running to this coocoo nest anytime soon. Remove Franklin and keep PSU as it is today.....yep...hold your breath on that one as a winning formula. If Franklin wants a MNC his best move may be to bail on PSU IMO.Argue comparative records as much as you like. Does Franklin win one national championship, let alone two? For those who believe he does, start holding your breath.
I see this response a lot as a means to defend the program's inability to beat top teams. Our facilities, NIL, and football budget rival the best in college football. Do we lead in all 3 categories? No. But for the fans to write bigger checks there has to be a sense of a program that can succeed and can do so with some transparency and honesty. The Peach Bowl debacle was an example of being sold a bill of goods for an inferior product. The anger in the PSU section was palpable. The checks won't come until the fans believe there will be a return on investment. NIL has only been around a couple of years. The failings against quality competition go back further.Write bigger checks
Franklin has 88 wins in 10 seasons (8.8 average).This is not a knock on your comment. Just an observation. Some put Joe on a pedestal for averaging “nearly 10 wins” then criticize Franklin relentlessly for 10-11 wins. This is why the constant comparisons between the two. Why is good for one, but bad for the other? I’m sure someone will do some serious mental gymnastics to try and explain it, but it doesn’t make sense.
Agree. Just for S’s & G’s though, Paterno had 409 wins in 45 years. 9.0 average. Granted there were less scheduled games back then, but he also didn’t have to deal with NIL or the portal.Franklin has 88 wins in 10 seasons (8.8 average).
I think Franklin is a good coach but his shorts get tight in close/big games. It's been that way since he got to PSU. I'll never forget the 2014 game against MD. PSU had a 2 pt lead late in the game when just one 1st down would have ended it. Instead he ran Lynch into the LOS 3 straight times and punted from our own 20 yd line with 2 minutes remaining. MD only need one first down to get into game winning FG range for Lou Groza award winner (top kicker in the country) Craddock.
There are several other examples but look at the blown 15 pt 4th qtr lead over USC or the two similar blown 4th qtr leads vs OSU. Joe definitely struggled against OSU (7-10) but not like Franklin (1-9).
My criticism of Franklin isn't his W-L record )except for 2020/2021). My criticism is his performance in big games. Think how his reputation would be different if we held on to win those two 1 pt losses to OSU. He'd still only be 3-7 vs OSU and his win percentage wouldn't be that much higher but he would have won another BiG title and made the college football playoffs. But as I said he's a good coach. Top 15 just like PSU.
Wrt Joe.... He stayed too long. He couldn't even travel to recruit. I'm just amazed how well he did from 2005-2011. IMO he got kids to come to PSU because of his reputation and his assistant coaches must have been better than most think.
True, but Joe actually monitored the academic performance of his players. Franklin, not so much.Agree. Just for S’s & G’s though, Paterno had 409 wins in 45 years. 9.0 average. Granted there were less scheduled games back then, but he also didn’t have to deal with NIL or the portal.