2002 was pretty exciting actually. Came up short but exciting.
FC: James Franklin on expectations for 2024…
- Thread starter Midnighter
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Definitely horrible.
I'm amazed that Joe was able to turn it around after that. From 2005-2011 he averaged nearly 10 wins and won 2 BiG titles. He wasn't healthy enough to make recruiting visits.
Yes. He should have called it after the Orange Bowl win against FSU and the 2005 season.
Concerning issue for Franklin is recruiting, the one thing people think he is really good at. Current class is 16th overall and fourth in the B1G (behind OSU, USC, Oregon), but good chance Michigan passes Penn State before the end of the cycle, and if FSU joins at some point they likely would consistently rank higher. This is an issue because Franklin's teams traditionally play to their recruiting ranking. If he starts to have several back quarter of the Top 20 recruiting classes, it's going to get rougher for him. Franklin is a good recruiter but it's getting tougher to compete with schools with hefty NIL programs.
.
He had us firmly in 2nd place in the Big behind OSU. We are now firmly in 3rd. I'll wager anyone a million internet bucks we see 5th before we see 1st.
He's unfortunately peaked. Granted he peaked at pretty good, but its obvious he's not getting to great.
He had us firmly in 2nd place in the Big behind OSU. We are now firmly in 3rd. I'll wager anyone a million internet bucks we see 5th before we see 1st.
Is a sport that requires that you lead in spending in order to succeed really a sport?
True, but that doesn’t mean the same that it used to mean now that they just tripled the number of teams they let in. If PSU is to improve it needs to start beating the better teams.
LMAO:
”….but I would also say that 99% of the college football programs in the country would die to
be where we're at.“
Coach single-handedly publicly embraced without embarrassment the 9 and 3 lifestyle. Is he oblivious or genius?
The balls on this guy I freaking swear.
”….but I would also say that 99% of the college football programs in the country would die to
be where we're at.“
Coach single-handedly publicly embraced without embarrassment the 9 and 3 lifestyle. Is he oblivious or genius?
The balls on this guy I freaking swear.
He exaggerated a bit- it's actually more like 90% based on winning percentages of all 134 teams over the last ten years. But clearly you deserve better. I'm sure Alabama could use another fan.
Sometimes there are things I feel more than know; I don't feel good about our future at all.
Let's be honest and admit we failed to get a team to the BCS. It never ******* happened.
Let's be honest and admit we failed to get a team to the BCS. It never ******* happened.
Three of those years were bad out what 43 years. Yes we really had to endure under Joe. lol.
hell I’d be happy if Franklin just got us in the conversation when November rolls in
But the sooner We Are!…Out of the Conversation!, the sooner Franklin can devote more time to recruiting.
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Franklin is sitting on $50 million of guaranteed salary…..as such, I don’t think he really cares about his bosses.
This is not a knock on your comment. Just an observation. Some put Joe on a pedestal for averaging “nearly 10 wins” then criticize Franklin relentlessly for 10-11 wins. This is why the constant comparisons between the two. Why is good for one, but bad for the other? I’m sure someone will do some serious mental gymnastics to try and explain it, but it doesn’t make sense.
To be fair, the BCS was on Joe’s watch and you are correct.
Not going to happen since we don’t have UMich and tOSU both scheduled in the same year in 2024-7!
I respectfully disagree with your “nearly 10 wins” pedestal comment as the reason for many fans admiration for Joe Paterno.
The admiration has more to do with the facts that:
1) Paterno actually won 2 National Championships
2) Played in 4 National Championship games
3) Had a 18 year stretch (1968 - 1986) where his team was in a National Title conversation at least once every 4 years on average.
4) Paterno actually beat the great teams of his era such as: Nebraska, Notre Dame, Georgia, Miami, Pittsburgh, Alabama, USC, and Ohio State.
In summary, it was never about “nearly 10 wins” a season. It was about being competitive with the big boy teams and being in serious consideration for a National Title. By the way, it took Joe only 3 years to receive National Title consideration (PSU ranked #2 in 1968 and 1969).
So, please, please, please, never try to compare Franklin to Joe. It does a disservice to Franklin.
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I respectfully think you missed my point. Why were “nearly 10 win seasons” from 2005-2011 acceptable for Joe (as you insinuated in your previous post) and not for Franklin? It wasn’t like Joe was consistently beating OSU, Michigan, or Iowa during that timeframe. Clearly, he was getting outcoached and out recruited during that timeframe, but you used it as a positive for his coaching career. Why? And for the record, you compared the two.
9-4. Lost to Iowa, Michigan, Ohio State and ended the season with a lackluster loss to Auburn in the bowl game with the offense only scoring 9 points and LJ Jr publicly ripping the offense for being vanilla, predictable, and outdated. How would this board have handled this season if Franklin was coach?
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People are comparing 4 losing seasons in 5 years to not winning 1-2 games a year and they think it's a sound argument. Franklin(or any HC) would never get to year 3 in that scenario and I get why Joe did as he wasn't going to get fired due to his history and social media was really just gearing up back then. No coach at any semi blue blood school would last through 2 losing years in a row today, never mind 4 in 5. Different times and situations.
No coach would get away with admitting they got lazy with recruiting or dare to say they were too big to go on visits like Joe did. On the flip side not too many coaches are getting fired for winning 10+ games a year and going to NYD 6 bowls. People point to UGa and Richt didn't look at his last 5 years when they make that arguement. Buy hey, if you know this coach is under a long contract so you take the field and say he isn't winning PSU a MNC or finishing in the top 4 so he needs to go.....knowing it simply cannot happen.
Take Joe away, and Penn State is another Syracuse. What would happen if you took Franklin away?
I don't think it takes a ton of mental gymnastics to understand Joe's impact, holistically, on the university is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Franklin's. On field? Sure, 10 wins is 10 wins, but Joe literally built the program and deserves the endless credit for that. His impact on the university as a whole is unrivaled amongst probably any other coach in history at the collegiate level. Truly, what will Franklin's legacy be? He helped sustain the program as a perennial 3rd(now 4th or 5th) Big Ten team. I agree with him, a lot of programs would be proud of that, but it's not really complicated to understand why Joe is revered in a way that Franklin or anybody else wouldn't be. Throw in a couple Championships if you have to navigate this strictly from an on-field perspective.
Nice spin guys. You guys are obsessed with comparing franklin to Joe. Joe of course from 2000-2004 overall. lol. Franklin isn’t in joes orbit. We hope he can be. He has a chance to start that process this year with a 12 team playoff. It is up to him. Also franklin has never ever had a one loss team. Joe had 12 no loss or 1 loss teams at seasons end. Imagine if these 12 teams were in the 4 team playoff. Oh my! So just stop the comparison.
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Yeah, the mental gymnastics are mostly done by the Franklin fan club in this debate.
Lets not forget that up until 2006, Joe's 10 win seasons were against an 11 game schedule.
And its not about the maths either. As someone else pointed out, its about being in the National Championship conversation until the last week of the season. Joe did it routinely 1968, 1969, 1973, 1978, 1982, 1986, 1994, 2005, 2008 (I'm sure I missed some)....CJF has done it once in 2016.
As you stated, even with a 4 team playoff, Joe would have had 4 or 5 MNCs
C'mon. The man stayed too long. remove you
Well, yes, they were bad. This is when he should have retired. I felt sorry for him when he would always say he only had football in his life. The far worse years were 2011-13 however.
Argue comparative records as much as you like. Does Franklin win one national championship, let alone two? For those who believe he does, start holding your breath.
Hey let's take the field on that one? Even more so at a school that fights itself and sets itself up for failure due to allowing the program to become complacent and fall behind. They still are behind the game as it evolves, but I'm sure we're just a Joe guy coaching again from correcting all those wrongs. Take Franklin out of the picture, not a single top 5 coach is running to this coocoo nest anytime soon. Remove Franklin and keep PSU as it is today.....yep...hold your breath on that one as a winning formula. If Franklin wants a MNC his best move may be to bail on PSU IMO.
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I see this response a lot as a means to defend the program's inability to beat top teams. Our facilities, NIL, and football budget rival the best in college football. Do we lead in all 3 categories? No. But for the fans to write bigger checks there has to be a sense of a program that can succeed and can do so with some transparency and honesty. The Peach Bowl debacle was an example of being sold a bill of goods for an inferior product. The anger in the PSU section was palpable. The checks won't come until the fans believe there will be a return on investment. NIL has only been around a couple of years. The failings against quality competition go back further.
You want more money? Show that you know what to do with it.
Franklin has 88 wins in 10 seasons (8.8 average).
I think Franklin is a good coach but his shorts get tight in close/big games. It's been that way since he got to PSU. I'll never forget the 2014 game against MD. PSU had a 2 pt lead late in the game when just one 1st down would have ended it. Instead he ran Lynch into the LOS 3 straight times and punted from our own 20 yd line with 2 minutes remaining. MD only need one first down to get into game winning FG range for Lou Groza award winner (top kicker in the country) Craddock.
There are several other examples but look at the blown 15 pt 4th qtr lead over USC or the two similar blown 4th qtr leads vs OSU. Joe definitely struggled against OSU (7-10) but not like Franklin (1-9).
My criticism of Franklin isn't his W-L record )except for 2020/2021). My criticism is his performance in big games. Think how his reputation would be different if we held on to win those two 1 pt losses to OSU. He'd still only be 3-7 vs OSU and his win percentage wouldn't be that much higher but he would have won another BiG title and made the college football playoffs. But as I said he's a good coach. Top 15 just like PSU.
Wrt Joe.... He stayed too long. He couldn't even travel to recruit. I'm just amazed how well he did from 2005-2011. IMO he got kids to come to PSU because of his reputation and his assistant coaches must have been better than most think.
Agree. Just for S’s & G’s though, Paterno had 409 wins in 45 years. 9.0 average. Granted there were less scheduled games back then, but he also didn’t have to deal with NIL or the portal.
True, but Joe actually monitored the academic performance of his players. Franklin, not so much.
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