FC: Sean Clifford unionizing players at Penn State.

[northwoods]

Correct. Any change that one dislikes is blamed on woke. An earlier generation blamed communists. Then it was rock n roll. Then feminism. Then political correctness. Now woke.

I'm not sure I even know exactly what "woke" means. I think it is used kind of like a "blanket statement" evoking some form of political correctness. I know that the far right seems to use it to describe just about anything and everyone they don't like (and that's about just about everything)

 

[PSUJam]

Remember this post a few years from now. As the old system breathes its last remember it provided thousands of players with free education, free room and board, free health care, free professional athletic training and facilities, free professional coaching and exposure to a national audience with an opportunity to continue on to a professional career.

We now see a move to perhaps as few as two super conferences with less than forty members. The very continuation of the game (and scholarship opportunities) is in question at the 100 or so other D1 schools to be excluded from the professional era replacing the old.

So where are some of us coming from? We think in the rush for $ that is destroying college sports we will end up eliminating opportunities for 4 (or more) years of scholarships worth more than $200,000 to a student athlete attending the average D1 program. Currently D1 schools provide more than 11,000 football scholarships alone. Add to that the thousands more provided to non football athletes paid from football revenues.

And you're blaming this on our QB? That's the same dumb shat the NCAA stood on to get us in this situation.

But in other situations you're all about capitalism, right unwoke Dave?

 

[PSUJam]

Let’s revisit this thread, when Cliff goes 12-32 with three picks in an opening loss to Purdue

 

[91Joe95]

And you're blaming this on our QB? That's the same dumb shat the NCAA stood on to get us in this situation.

But in other situations you're all about capitalism, right unwoke Dave?

You just called him unwoke. Are you trying to butter him up?

 

[NB4PSU]

And you're blaming this on our QB? That's the same dumb shat the NCAA stood on to get us in this situation.

But in other situations you're all about capitalism, right unwoke Dave?

Gonna need you to expound on that a bit... i'm taking a wild guess that HD must have dropped all this on Sean somewhere else in this thread that missed... if so, I get your point. If not, i'm unsure what HD said here that points a finger at Sean.

for the record, I agree with his position but I have always felt ALL players on the roster should be paid a monthly stipend (not thousands, but reasonable WAM so they can function as if they held PT jobs like other college kids). Me, I've always felt that leaving school with a college degree and NO debt is a pretty fing cool thing. Of course it pre-supposes the kids have the ability and interest to avail themselves of that opportunity. It wasn't that long ago it seemed there were plenty who cared (being an academic all american seemed to be an honor)... not so much anymore.

Seems the trickle down effect to even junior high school has created an atmosphere where kids no longer feel any need to even try to be students... hard to fix that once they get to college. And yeah, i'm getting long winded so i'll stop there.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

And you're blaming this on our QB? That's the same dumb shat the NCAA stood on to get us in this situation.

But in other situations you're all about capitalism, right unwoke Dave?

Huh?

 

[Nitt1300]

seeing who is agin it, I'm fer it

 

[psu31trap]

I’ve been a big supporter of Sean Clifford. But I’m not a big supporter of what he’s doing here. The focus should be on winning a B10 Championship and absolutely nothing else.

 

[Countrylion]

LOL! Only if you're not familiar with the creepizoid that is BW Lion. He alternates between attacking Franklin for things like the fall of Rome, and Pluto being downgraded to a dwarf planet ... to attempting to dox people for being a poor pilot on the first Martian spaceship to visit Earth. I'd normally say he's not all there ... but in his case, I don't think any of it is there.

So back to the discussion, most people (not HDave) are good with NIL. The problem right now is going behind Franklin’s back to sneak an union organizer into PSU facilities. You know that would be enough to get an one way ticket out of Alabama or Georgia. But here it is a huge potential distraction for a team that can not afford distractions. Not a good look for Clifford.

 

[PSUJam]

Huh?

 

[Moogy]

Not true. People who did things the right way cared. Joe Paterno sure cared. It is the scumbag renegade programs (Switzer's Oklahoma, Johnson's Miami, and take your pick in the SEC...) that normalized what we see now. Kids bought and paid for disguising as college students to win games. Just because some bad people abused the system doesn't mean we should normalize it.

It is COLLEGE football. If you want to play, you need to be a COLLEGE STUDENT. If you have no interest in that, don't play. Should be that simple.

LOL! Except the kids I knew on the team back in the Paterno days explicitly told me, when I'd joke with them about bothering to show up for class, that all they had to do was show up for class (not pay attention, not do well on exams, etc.) and they were guaranteed to pass and be eligible ... so that's what they did. Listen, some programs were better than others, sure. But this is still a system set up to bring in meatheads for football purposes, and process them through the educational system to keep them eligible to play what they're there for - football.

Trust me ... I'm 100% about actually emphasizing the "student" part of the "student-athlete" - I don't think college football coaches should be able to "recruit" a kid until after that kid has applied to, and been accepted at (blind to his athletic prowess) that university. That would actually be focusing on the student portion of the equation. Instead, it's grown men being paid millions to coax children to play a sport for them ... oh, and it's at this school, too. Don't worry, while you hold down this full-time job you'll be able to get an education, too ... we have tutors and study halls (to ensure you stay eligible)! Meanwhile, the landscape has gotten more and more "professional" and more and more people are getting richer and richer off of it, and few have said a word. That is until the kids doing all the work suddenly wanted a piece of the pie they've made. Now the whole sport is ruined.

 

[Moogy]

Remember this post a few years from now. As the old system breathes its last remember it provided thousands of players with free education, free room and board, free health care, free professional athletic training and facilities, free professional coaching and exposure to a national audience with an opportunity to continue on to a professional career.

We now see a move to perhaps as few as two super conferences with less than forty members. The very continuation of the game (and scholarship opportunities) is in question at the 100 or so other D1 schools to be excluded from the professional era replacing the old.

So where are some of us coming from? We think in the rush for $ that is destroying college sports we will end up eliminating opportunities for 4 (or more) years of scholarships worth more than $200,000 to a student athlete attending the average D1 program. Currently D1 schools provide more than 11,000 football scholarships alone. Add to that the thousands more provided to non football athletes paid from football revenues.

"free education" "free room and board" "free health care" "free professional athletic training and facilities" "free professional coaching and exposure to a national audience"

Lots of misuse of the word "free" in there.

There's nothing "free" about what those kids have EARNED. This is why you have grown men making $7M a year begging and pleading with 8th and 9th graders to come play for them ... because they know these top talents EARN those coaches their jobs and their HUGE annual salaries, and you're better off trying to groom them while they're younger. There's nothing "free" about holding down a full-time job while trying to get an education. "Look at all the 'free' stuff we've provided you" as you aren't getting paid a "wage," or certainly aren't getting paid what you're worth ... that's beyond insulting.

You guys should have thought about all of these "rush for $" things that you now currently (allegedly) abhor when the system was actually rushing for that $, with all sorts of aspects of said system set up to bring in that money ... the "old system" kept getting more and more "professional" and money-grubbing ... and it was benefitting everyone ... everyone, that is, except for the student athlete.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

"free education" "free room and board" "free health care" "free professional athletic training and facilities" "free professional coaching and exposure to a national audience"

Lots of misuse of the word "free" in there.

There's nothing "free" about what those kids have EARNED. This is why you have grown men making $7M a year begging and pleading with 8th and 9th graders to come play for them ... because they know these top talents EARN those coaches their jobs and their HUGE annual salaries, and you're better off trying to groom them while they're younger. There's nothing "free" about holding down a full-time job while trying to get an education. "Look at all the 'free' stuff we've provided you" as you aren't getting paid a "wage," or certainly aren't getting paid what you're worth ... that's beyond insulting.

You guys should have thought about all of these "rush for $" things that you now currently (allegedly) abhor when the system was actually rushing for that $, with all sorts of aspects of said system set up to bring in that money ... the "old system" kept getting more and more "professional" and money-grubbing ... and it was benefitting everyone ... everyone, that is, except for the student athlete.

I did criticize the growing professionalism kid. Anyone with an ounce of sense saw this bs coming years ago. You must not have been around when the salaries for coaches, the construction of “facilities”, the myriad assistant ADs, and the establishment of huge amounts of debt to pay for it all were discussed.

Spare me the poor athlete ********. Graduating with no debt and all the perks that added up to hundreds of thousands for each of the players was and is a nice deal.

The days when players could not hear boos or read criticism without being defended as “kids” is over. The Mama boys had best get used to it. Perform or adios. Adios annual scholarship, room and board, and all the rest. If they whine about it they will be told to grow up and get a real job. Want to be professionals and free agents? Expect to learn what that means.

 

[PSUJam]

I did criticize the growing professionalism kid. Anyone with an ounce of sense saw this bs coming years ago. You must not have been around when the salaries for coaches, the construction of “facilities”, the myriad assistant ADs, and the establishment of huge amounts of debt to pay for it all were discussed.

Spare me the poor athlete ********. Graduating with no debt and all the perks that added up to hundreds of thousands for each of the players was and is a nice deal.

The days when players could not hear boos or read criticism without being defended as “kids” is over. The Mama boys had best get used to it. Perform or adios. Adios annual scholarship, room and board, and all the rest. If they whine about it they will be told to grow up and get a real job. Want to be professionals and free agents? Expect to learn what that means.

 

[Midnighter]

Come a long way from Curtis Enis being suspended for accepting a sport coat so he could attend award functions....I mean, Joe suspended Enis for the LAST GAME OF HIS COLLEGE CAREER. SMFH.

They act like this is an unforgivable violation. And of course, how did this news about illicit and illegal clothing come to light? Good ol' Pennsylvania news stations, who have nothing better to do than harass Penn State. FFS.

Paterno said a university investigation found that the charges, first raised by a Pennsylvania television station, had merit. He then confronted Enis.

``All I was trying to do was get him to the point where we could make a statement and get this behind us so he could get on with his life,″ Paterno said.

WHTM-TV in Harrisburg reported Friday that Houston-based agent Jeff Nalley bought Enis $400 in clothing on Dec. 6 in a Harrisburg-area mall.

All-American Running Back Curtis Enis Is Suspended by Penn State for Accepting Gifts From a

All-American Running Back Curtis Enis Is Suspended by Penn State for Accepting Gifts From a Sports AgentBy MICHAEL RAPHAEL

apnews.com

 

[91Joe95]

Come a long way from Curtis Enis being suspended for accepting a sport coat so he could attend award functions....I mean, Joe suspended Enis for the LAST GAME OF HIS COLLEGE CAREER. SMFH.

They act like this is an unforgivable violation. And of course, how did this news about illicit and illegal clothing come to light? Good ol' Pennsylvania news stations, who have nothing better to do than harass Penn State. FFS.

Paterno said a university investigation found that the charges, first raised by a Pennsylvania television station, had merit. He then confronted Enis.

``All I was trying to do was get him to the point where we could make a statement and get this behind us so he could get on with his life,″ Paterno said.

WHTM-TV in Harrisburg reported Friday that Houston-based agent Jeff Nalley bought Enis $400 in clothing on Dec. 6 in a Harrisburg-area mall.

All-American Running Back Curtis Enis Is Suspended by Penn State for Accepting Gifts From a

All-American Running Back Curtis Enis Is Suspended by Penn State for Accepting Gifts From a Sports AgentBy MICHAEL RAPHAEL

apnews.com

Suspended Joe Jurevicius for the same game, also his last, for failing to go to classes, and he had passed his classes.

 

[Midnighter]

Suspended Joe Jurevicius for the same game, also his last, for failing to go to classes, and he had passed his classes.

JFC. I remember.

 

[PSUFBFAN]

Suspended Joe Jurevicius for the same game, also his last, for failing to go to classes, and he had passed his classes.

Yep, and that's the same coach who conspired to keep everything quiet about a child molester just so he could win more football games according to the media and widespread public opinion in this country.

It still pi$$e$ me off that was one of the most unjustified character assassinations in history.

 

[91Joe95]

I'm not sure I even know exactly what "woke" means. I think it is used kind of like a "blanket statement" evoking some form of political correctness. I know that the far right seems to use it to describe just about anything and everyone they don't like (and that's about just about everything)

Lol, here's a decent primer, although this fine gentleman(?) Is missing a few items.

 

[Midnighter]

Lol, here's a decent primer, although this fine gentleman(?) Is missing a few items.

So - what’s the opposite of ‘woke’?

 

[NoBareFeet]

Suspended Joe Jurevicius for the same game, also his last, for failing to go to classes, and he had passed his classes.

Well, it was a "meaningless" game according to the "the players are victims!!!!!" crowd.

 

[BobPSU92]

Suspended Joe Jurevicius for the same game, also his last, for failing to go to classes, and he had passed his classes.

Please take this opportunity to remember that Penn State has a culture problem.

 

[BobPSU92]

So - what’s the opposite of ‘woke’?

Us.

 

[Moogy]

I did criticize the growing professionalism kid. Anyone with an ounce of sense saw this bs coming years ago. You must not have been around when the salaries for coaches, the construction of “facilities”, the myriad assistant ADs, and the establishment of huge amounts of debt to pay for it all were discussed.

Spare me the poor athlete ********. Graduating with no debt and all the perks that added up to hundreds of thousands for each of the players was and is a nice deal.

The days when players could not hear boos or read criticism without being defended as “kids” is over. The Mama boys had best get used to it. Perform or adios. Adios annual scholarship, room and board, and all the rest. If they whine about it they will be told to grow up and get a real job. Want to be professionals and free agents? Expect to learn what that means.

Your claim is that these kids aren't kids because they're getting paid. The consequence of this is that they're now going to face your booing wrath. But then you claim that these kids were ALREADY getting paid, in the form of education, training, etc. So why didn't that arrangement draw your ire? Why were they still kids, getting health care and super elite coaching for "nothing"? They were getting paid to play football ... and they were just kids who were immune to criticism. Now they're getting paid to play football ... but they're men who must brace themselves for boos. Why not just thank them for providing you with countless hours of entertainment, and stop worrying about whether or not they can move to another school like any other student, and get paid market value for their work, like every other student?

 

[Moogy]

Lol, here's a decent primer, although this fine gentleman(?) Is missing a few items.

Ah, so if you're not woke, and you use the term disparagingly, you are against peace, love, equity, race mixing and rock 'n roll ... and you are for abuse of animals. Glad you were able to straighten that out for everyone.

 

[Nitt1300]

If this thread proves anything, it's that Moogy and HarrisburgDave deserve each other

 

[northwoods]

So - what’s the opposite of ‘woke’?

My best guess would be "rigged". To many who still think the election was "rigged" (it wasn't), anyone who disagrees with them is "woke". So maybe "woke" means having the intelligence and objectivity to not fall into "The Emperor's New Clothes" trap and herd mentality like lemmings going over the cliff. Which is a good thing

 

[Moogy]

If this thread proves anything, it's that Moogy and HarrisburgDave deserve each other

Nitt1300 also says: "seeing who is agin it, I'm fer it" ... and it proves that you're a proud graduate of Derek Zoolander's Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good.

 

[Moogy]

So back to the discussion, most people (not HDave) are good with NIL. The problem right now is going behind Franklin’s back to sneak an union organizer into PSU facilities. You know that would be enough to get an one way ticket out of Alabama or Georgia. But here it is a huge potential distraction for a team that can not afford distractions. Not a good look for Clifford.

What you're saying is that Alabama and Georgia are Wal-Mart ... and PSU is civilized society? I can live with that.

So, what would be the alternative? Clifford should have approached Franklin with his desire to have players meet with the "union rep" and sought his approval? Clifford should have organized this off-site behind Franklin's back? This is how things are done. The players receiving more equitable representation is a much bigger issue than how many dubs PSU football can post this year.

 

[91Joe95]

My best guess would be "rigged". To many who still think the election was "rigged" (it wasn't), anyone who disagrees with them is "woke". So maybe "woke" means having the intelligence and objectivity to not fall into "The Emperor's New Clothes" trap and herd mentality like lemmings going over the cliff. Which is a good thing

I find two things highly amusing: 1) the people who invented the term have changed it so often, and gotten so used at trying to redefine even basic words, that they don't even know what the term means anymore, and 2) the guy making the tweet. For those too young to know who he is, he tried to assassinate a US president to impress Jody Foster (fyi, it didn't work, and she's a lesbian). His tweet reads like an ad for you know who/what, and it appears no one has picked up on any of this. John Hinckley was too crazy to even get jail time, and when he's finally released from the loony bin this is what his rehabilitation looks like. But that's just me, I try to find the humor in things.

 

[Countrylion]

What you're saying is that Alabama and Georgia are Wal-Mart ... and PSU is civilized society? I can live with that.

So, what would be the alternative? Clifford should have approached Franklin with his desire to have players meet with the "union rep" and sought his approval? Clifford should have organized this off-site behind Franklin's back? This is how things are done. The players receiving more equitable representation is a much bigger issue than how many dubs PSU football can post this year.

Not to the people who pay for tickets and pay for NIL. The alternative would to be above board and not sneak around like a jerk. If he was so hot to have a meeting spend his own money and rent out a motel conference room. You know act like a honorable person.

 

[Mile High Lion]

I don’t disagree, but since when is capitalism ‘woke’?

Since around 2020.

 

[Stalinka]

In fact, all these problems come from what we essentially missed when femenism raised its head after World War I and already there were movements like this. That’s why we’re in the world now. Even the same capitalism has been rebuilt in a new way, and it has affected every industry without exception, and we have come to where we are today. So I recommend reading the essay on feminist struggles https://samplius.com/free-essay-examples/the-feminist-struggle-in-mrs-dalloway/ here they just are. I’ve learned a lot about this subject myself.

 

[Aquapong]

Why don’t we just have okayers sign agents already and get it over with? College football is dead. I’ve barely paid attention to anything this offseason.

 

[PSUJam]

Why don’t we just have okayers sign agents already and get it over with? College football is dead. I’ve barely paid attention to anything this offseason.

 

[91Joe95]

Update on unionization efforts:

 

[BayronG]

Thanks for sharing this type of informative article.

 

[Eric_M]

Damn, Sean. Go on with your bad self.

Well he will be remembered as a good player with poor decision making. This fits.