FC: The Athletic’s 2024 Top CFB Coaches…

[Ludd]

not really some are stuck in their ways. Ever seen a BB coach when asked why dont you play zone? and the response is, we play Man to Man. Some can't see the forest for the trees. the crying shame is, they ran the same stunt the next year when they had 4 and 7 and to get in FG range, and still couldnt block it!!!
why wouldnt I be watching tape, you can learn alot, you might want to try it sometime.

Almost all the coaches don’t play zone…they’re not stuck in their ways, that’s their philosophy. I don’t agree with it, but that doesn’t mean I think I know more than they do. And apparently no team has too much success stopping it or they wouldn’t run it all the time. Same reason guys like Michael Jordan and Larry Bird almost always took the game winning shot…the other team knew it was coming and couldn’t stop it….that doesn’t make the other team’s coach a bad coach.

 

[s1uggo72]

Almost all the coaches don’t play zone…they’re not stuck in their ways, that’s their philosophy. I don’t agree with it, but that doesn’t mean I think I know more than they do. And apparently no team has too much success stopping it or they wouldn’t run it all the time. Same reason guys like Michael Jordan and Larry Bird almost always took the game winning shot…the other team knew it was coming and couldn’t stop it….that doesn’t make the other team’s coach a bad coach.

I guess you don’t follow Marshall. But what’s really the difference between stuck in their ways vs it’s not their philosophy?
do you know what a T/ E stunt is?

 

[BobPSU92]

do you know what a T/ E stunt is?

 

[s1uggo72]

You got it!!

 

[marshall23]

How come We Aren’t Better?

We deserve better.

 

[marshall23]

I am not "rationalizing' anything. I am pragmatic and realisitc. Using any realistic metric, and comparing the two football programs and the two athetic departments, OSU surpasses PSU. It's not just the James Franklin coached teams.

Since you seem to be so focussed on the nubmers....

CJF's teams have lost by an average of 10.56 points per game to OSU
O'Brien's teams lost by an average of 30 points per game to OSU (given it was only two games and one was a runaway, plus....the sanctions)
Joe's teams lost by average of 11.2 points. Slightly worse than CJF, but he had a lot more games to even things out. And he won 3 of the 5 games against OSU since 2001. So he is doing better against OSU than all the coaches PSU has had since he was fired.

They are better than PSU. It's just that simple. The two programs are not on an even keel. And they never have been.

But the problem at PSU is that Franklin only loses games. He never wins any. PSU should win 10 games every year because BWICAC says so. PSU is a 7-12 level program. No metric indicates that they are a top 5 program. With any luck PSU will lose to WV and Maryland next season. It will stop the bitching that PSU only loses the 2 games that count.

 

[Nitt1300]

We deserve better.

We will get nothing, and like it.

 

[Ludd]

I guess you don’t follow Marshall. But what’s really the difference between stuck in their ways vs it’s not their philosophy?
do you know what a T/ E stunt is?

Yes, so if I know what it is, I’m quite sure Franklin does too. Almost all teams use it..and why, because it works. So if it works, does that mean the other coach doesn’t know what he’s doing? And I don’t follow Marshall (does anyone really?) but I assume they play a zone and that’s why I said almost all teams and not all teams.

 

[razpsu]

Because Penn State has never been able to beat Ohio State regularly. Never. Only Rip and Scrap have winning records against OSU, and Scrap is 1-0 only because Joe got fired and OSU was playing without Tressel, who got fired before the season.

The inflection point was 2001 - from that point to this point, OSU has averaged 11 wins a year. PSU is 8.5. In the 24 years prior to the 2001 season, OSU averaged 9.5 wins per year, PSU averaged 9. PSU has defeated OSU 5 times since 2001 - that is tied for the most in that time frame with Michigan (who have won three straight). No one else has come close. Saban has a losing record vs. OSU (MSU, LSU, Alabama). I think Dabo does also (not quite sure).

I know how the games have gone - I watched them also. Close games in 2014, 2017, 2018, 2022 and 2023. So, actually 5 times.

Truth be told, OSU is a better program and therefore better team - and frankly, probably always will be. They have a diferent culture at OSU than most every school, save Alabama, and perhaps recently Georgia.

Penn State is a very good football program, and always has been - it has never been "elite" as defined by most anyone who watches football. Having said that, I think there is more pressure on CJF this year than most, because now, as long as he holds serive and beats everyone he should beat, he has a very good chance to make the playoffs. And from there, anything can happen - but you gotta get there first.

We are not elite right now. But to say we have never been elite is not true.
All time records. Division 1. Yale is missing space. They did great 1870-1879. Lol

1	Michigan	1004	353	36	.734	1,393
2	Alabama	965	337	43	.733	1,345
3	Ohio State	964	333	53	.734	1,350
4	Notre Dame	948	337	42	.730	1,326
4	Texas	948	392	33	.702	1,373
6	Oklahoma	944	340	53	.726	1,337
7
8	Penn State	930	409	41	.689	1,380
9	Nebraska	917

1950-1999 psu had most wins of any program in college football. I think that makes us elite at one point.

 

[s1uggo72]

Yes, so if I know what it is, I’m quite sure Franklin does too. Almost all teams use it..and why, because it works. So if it works, does that mean the other coach doesn’t know what he’s doing? And I don’t follow Marshall (does anyone really?) but I assume they play a zone and that’s why I said almost all teams and not all teams.

Well educate me and tell me what it is.

 

[marshall23]

We will get nothing, and like it.

WE ARE lucky to be playing!

 

[Ludd]

Well educate me and tell me what it is.

It’s a type of rush…we can discuss it at our next coach’s meeting and I’ll explain it to you as we break down film.

 

[s1uggo72]

It’s a type of rush…we can discuss it at our next coach’s meeting and I’ll explain it to you as we break down film.

lol that’s what I thought. You don’t know

 

[Ludd]

lol that’s what I thought. You don’t know

Do you expect me to draw it up on the BWI white board?

 

[s1uggo72]

Do you expect me to draw it up on the BWI white board?

Why not?

 

[PSUSignore]

Regularly? Okay. But how about sometimes?

This is what it looked like over a 60 year stretch. A fair amount of blue in there, never losing more than 3 times in a row to OSU.

View attachment 538038

This is very different, and marks a significant change (all time series record was 13-13 before this):

View attachment 538039

I've said it a plenty of times on the message boards, but the current version of OSU is nothing like those old days. OSU is a powerhouse. They have won games consistently more than anyone else in the country over the past 20 years. Even more than Bama, but Bama is obviously better because of the titles and playoff wins, but OSU has averaged more wins per season. They are a juggernaut, among the best dynasties over a 20 year span in CFB history. Saying that PSU beat them more often 30+ years ago means nothing, OSU wasn't as dominant back then, Paterno never had an annual opponent on the schedule like PSU has had with OSU in the last 20 years. PSU has had the very unfortunate pleasure of having to face OSU every single season during their run which is almost like starting every season with 0-1 record.

 

[Ludd]

Why not?

Because there is no BWI white board.

 

[wbcbus]

I've said it a plenty of times on the message boards, but the current version of OSU is nothing like those old days. OSU is a powerhouse. They have won games consistently more than anyone else in the country over the past 20 years. Even more than Bama, but Bama is obviously better because of the titles and playoff wins, but OSU has averaged more wins per season. They are a juggernaut, among the best dynasties over a 20 year span in CFB history. Saying that PSU beat them more often 30+ years ago means nothing, OSU wasn't as dominant back then, Paterno never had an annual opponent on the schedule like PSU has had with OSU in the last 20 years. PSU has had the very unfortunate pleasure of having to face OSU every single season during their run which is almost like starting every season with 0-1 record.

We went 3-4 against OSU from 2005-2011 in Paterno's final years.... That isn't 30+ years ago. It's not even 20+ years ago.

And part of the reason OSU was able to become such a juggernaut is that Michigan and Penn State stopped beating them. Not because OSU got so much better (initially), but because UM and PSU got worse. The fact that they averaged more wins than Bama, but had 1 title compared to 6 over the stretch speaks to the fact that OSU was facing a weaker schedule.

It's a little bit of both I think that has allowed OSU to become what they are: OSU hired a couple great coaches in a row, and their main competition in conference went into tough times. But I just don't buy into this idea that "well...OSU is a juggernaut now, so losing to them all the time is what happens and there's nothing you can do about it." Clemson fans could've said that about FSU for a long time. Georgia fans about Bama. Oregon or Washington fans about USC. What's true today doesn't have to be true tomorrow unless you just concede it.

 

[s1uggo72]

Because there is no BWI white board.

lol what a joke

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

Worse programs/teams beat better ones all the time. There is the Auburn example above. And many, many others - from Phil Steele:

From 1997-2022 there were 2,412 teams that were favored by 7.5 to 10 points and of those 2,412 teams there were 627 upsets. That means that 26.0% of the time a team was favored by 7.5 to 10 points they lost outright and that translates into 1 upset every 3.84 games.

Since 1997, 1632 of the 4,623 teams that were underdogs of 3.5 to 7 points have pulled outright upsets and that translates into 1 every 2.83 games or 35.3% of the time.

By consistently losing to Ohio State, Franklin is 'beating' the odds which say he should be winning at least one or two games every three to four times they play. Acknowledging a program is better/more talented is one thing, but using that as an excuse for never beating them is something wildly different.

This goes back to analytics. Analytics overall will tell you to go for it on 4th down and 2 on your side of the 50 and you will make it 80% of the time. (I'm just using 80% as a number it might even be higher than that.) But that doesn't tell you what the true chance of making it on 4th and 2 on your side of the 50 against Michigan's all-america 320-lb. defensive linemen. It's a far lesser percentage of making it.

Those upset figures may work overall for college football, but how many teams upset Ohio State? How many teams upset Ohio State in Columbus?

 

[Ludd]

lol what a joke

Please stop drinking.

 

[FTLPSU]

We go through this every year with the Coaching vs Jimmy & Joe debate.

Reading both sides of this as objective as possible yes OSU is a powerhouse and has been…yes they have better overall players, they also had/have better overall coaches. Yes they are a better program and yes we are a #7-15 team

We are lucky Lucky we won in 2016.

Got to ask though why haven’t we gotten lucky once or twice more in these contests? Coaching….sorry but we could have won a few more with some ingenuity and creativeness and quite frankly some Balls in play calling.

I don’t know another coach who has made so many knucklehead decisions in game….sorry can’t always conveniently blame the kids for not executing the play lol sorry.

I am hoping, I am praying JF let’s Kotelnicki call the plays and just plays HC and decides to go for it on 4th, punt, fakes go for 2 etc…let this OC run the offense and I bet we win a few close games that we ordinarily wouldn’t have won.

Facts.

 

[wbcbus]

But the problem at PSU is that Franklin only loses games. He never wins any. PSU should win 10 games every year because BWICAC says so. PSU is a 7-12 level program. No metric indicates that they are a top 5 program. With any luck PSU will lose to WV and Maryland next season. It will stop the bitching that PSU only loses the 2 games that count.

To be fair, we don't say those are the only 2 games Franklin loses, just that he always loses those 2.

 

[BobPSU92]

We should see our football inferiority as a positive. It will make the inevitable demise of the program much easier to take when college football implodes.

 

[BW Lion]

It’s a type of rush…we can discuss it at our next coach’s meeting and I’ll explain it to you as we break down film.

This is why you’re infamously known as “Ludd the Dud”

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Why shouldn't we be losing to OSU 7 times in a row? They are a more talented team and program than PSU. And have been for over 2 decades.

Yup.

or better playing? we haven't been e-light since 1994

3 decades. PSU had an old coach who was content. They had 4 losing seasons in 5 years and didn’t do anything to remedy it other than Joe finally started to recruit again. PSU won’t invest like an elite team.

 

[marshall23]

To be fair, we don't say those are the only 2 games Franklin loses, just that he always loses those 2.

To be fair, fanboys only credit Franklin with losses. WE win the games WE'RE supposed to win .....in spite of him, right?
LOL...perhaps he can lose 2 or 3 games WE'RE supposed to win this year? Boo fn hoo

 

[marshall23]

How come We Aren’t Better?

8 more years!

 

[marshall23]

We should see our football inferiority as a positive. It will make the inevitable demise of the program much easier to take when college football implodes.

Ignoring the genius of the BWICAC is a prescription for disaster. This is an easy fix. Hire a coach that only wins games...to replace one who only loses them.

 

[Ludd]

This is why you’re infamously known as “Ludd the Dud”

Snappy comeback…how many days did it take you to come up with that one?

 

[OptionBob]

We go through this every year with the Coaching vs Jimmy & Joe debate.

Reading both sides of this as objective as possible yes OSU is a powerhouse and has been…yes they have better overall players, they also had/have better overall coaches. Yes they are a better program and yes we are a #7-15 team

We are lucky Lucky we won in 2016.

Got to ask though why haven’t we gotten lucky once or twice more in these contests? Coaching….sorry but we could have won a few more with some ingenuity and creativeness and quite frankly some Balls in play calling.

I don’t know another coach who has made so many knucklehead decisions in game….sorry can’t always conveniently blame the kids for not executing the play lol sorry.

I am hoping, I am praying JF let’s Kotelnicki call the plays and just plays HC and decides to go for it on 4th, punt, fakes go for 2 etc…let this OC run the offense and I bet we win a few close games that we ordinarily wouldn’t have won.

Facts.

So you claim Penn State was "lucky" to win in 2016. I'm guessing that you are referencing the blocked FG in the 4th quarter. Correct?

But what would you say had the kicker simply missed the FG and OSU still wins the game? EWould you call th Buckeye's "lucky"?

After all, Ohio State benefitted from the following in that game:

1. A similarly blocked FG
2. An unforced fumbled punt by PSU recovered by the Buckeyes
3. An unforced bad snap over the PSU punter's head into the EZ for a safety.

Or would you call those unforced errors and the same blocked FG great coaching by Ohio State? Would criticize Penn State's coaches for those 3 errors?

I am not defending the coaching prowess of James Franklin. I am in no way qualified to judge his skills. But I do get a bit irked when even Penn State fans call that 2016 win "lucky." If anything, Penn State had to overcome incredibly unlucky mistakes that led to OSU points despite the fact Ohio State didn't "force" them with brilliant defensive play/.

 

[FTLPSU]

So you claim Penn State was "lucky" to win in 2016. I'm guessing that you are referencing the blocked FG in the 4th quarter. Correct?

But what would you say had the kicker simply missed the FG and OSU still wins the game? EWould you call th Buckeye's "lucky"?

After all, Ohio State benefitted from the following in that game:

1. A similarly blocked FG
2. An unforced fumbled punt by PSU recovered by the Buckeyes
3. An unforced bad snap over the PSU punter's head into the EZ for a safety.

Or would you call those unforced errors and the same blocked FG great coaching by Ohio State? Would criticize Penn State's coaches for those 3 errors?

I am not defending the coaching prowess of James Franklin. I am in no way qualified to judge his skills. But I do get a bit irked when even Penn State fans call that 2016 win "lucky." If anything, Penn State had to overcome incredibly unlucky mistakes that led to OSU points despite the fact Ohio State didn't "force" them with brilliant defensive play/.

Great research, agree with your analysis and facts..I used that game as a quick example. I conceit to your argument. But you get my point.

To emphasize coaching over Jimmy’s and Joes, I could have used the Illinois loss as well since they were loaded with 4 & 5 stars…but again you get my point. Would love the analysis of that game since you did a brilliant job on the 2016 game.

I reviewed all of Kolenicki‘s games last year and I like his play calling and creativity. Super excited to see him get creative when we need to.

 

[BobPSU92]

Ignoring the genius of the BWICAC is a prescription for disaster. This is an easy fix. Hire a coach that only wins games...to replace one who only loses them.

Franklin’s biggest mistake is competing against teams that also want to win.

 

[wbcbus]

To be fair, fanboys only credit Franklin with losses. WE win the games WE'RE supposed to win .....in spite of him, right?
LOL...perhaps he can lose 2 or 3 games WE'RE supposed to win this year? Boo fn hoo

Franklin is one of the top 15 coaches in the country. He's just not a top 5 coach. I have no problem with you being okay with that. Why do you have such a problem with anyone who isn't?

 

[wbcbus]

Ignoring the genius of the BWICAC is a prescription for disaster. This is an easy fix. Hire a coach that only wins games...to replace one who only loses them.

Franklin’s biggest mistake is competing against teams that also want to win.

Curious, if Franklin lost every game against a top 10 team for the next decade, are you guys still good with him? I'm just genuinely curious if there's ever a breaking point for you on that front, or if 10 wins but losing to every top 10 team is okay with you in perpetuity. Not judging, just curious where you stand.

 

[BostonNit]

The frustrating part for many of us is that with the talent on our teams over the years, you'd think we'd have a puncher's chance of an upset occasionally. But that puncher's chance never seems to happen for us.

Kentucky did it to us. Ole Miss did it to us.

Yet we just can't seem to land that big punch when *we're* the underdogs. A quarter of the kids change every year. One thing remains constant.

 

[marshall23]

Franklin’s biggest mistake is competing against teams that also want to win.

I hear other schools are paying coaches, giving scholarships and even some NIL $.....
Hard to imagine.

 

[marshall23]

Franklin is one of the top 15 coaches in the country. He's just not a top 5 coach. I have no problem with you being okay with that. Why do you have such a problem with anyone who isn't?

I have no problem with James being rated between (high) 7 and low (15). His compensation is closer to the low I might add.
I also think that is a fair assessment of the Penn State Football Program. Why do people here have a problem accepting that?

 

[Obliviax]

The frustrating part for many of us is that with the talent on our teams over the years, you'd think we'd have a puncher's chance of an upset occasionally. But that puncher's chance never seems to happen for us.

Kentucky did it to us. Ole Miss did it to us.

Yet we just can't seem to land that big punch when *we're* the underdogs. A quarter of the kids change every year. One thing remains constant.

with both K and Ole Miss, their key players were motivated and played. Our key players sat out to prepare for the NFL combine.

 

[marshall23]

Curious, if Franklin lost every game against a top 10 team for the next decade, are you guys still good with him? I'm just genuinely curious if there's ever a breaking point for you on that front, or if 10 wins but losing to every top 10 team is okay with you in perpetuity. Not judging, just curious where you stand.

I'm not good at hypotheticals. How would I know? My position is simple. I've been a fan for close to 60 years. I want PSU to win every game. I also know that isn't reality. I loved Joe, the winning was nice, the way he ran the program was more important to me. I think James runs a very good program. I enjoy the games, build my fall weekends around them. It's something my now adult sons and I continue to bond over. Perhaps the key is that being a fan of PSU football is just something I enjoy.... I don't need PSU to win football games to bolster my self esteem or create some sort of elite fan identity.
I think the tipping point for me would be recruiting a lot of young men of questionable character or loosing 2 or more games per year to the likes of Northwestern or Rutgers. I think it's pure fanboy folly to cry about a coach who is consistently winning 9-11 games per year.