Thanks for clarifying, the point still being that the IHSA has reversed decisions in the past.
Fenwick / Plainfield
- Thread starter feeto
- Start date
How is that much different??? Each allowed a team an extra play..Only thing that's different is the time in the game and the magnitude of the game..
I think you just answered your own question. There is hope for logic afterall.
But the rest does matter, whether you like it or not. Rectifying a mistake in a running clock game is the right thing to do, but also one that didn't affect the outcome of the game. The refs in this situation had as much time as they wanted as they wanted, considering the dead ball stopped clock nature of the penalty, and they failed to take the time to consult a rulebook and get it right. It would have been more forgivable if it was a snap judgment on a running clock. But it wasn't. Given the gravity of the situation and the missed opportunity to get it right, this mistake is much more egregious.
TLDR the situation matters
Lol @ treating high school refs like its their job. Look i complain about the refs (in Orland Park and Bradley) as much as anyone, but some of these proposals are silly. Maybe if people were beating down the door to get dozens of dollars ro ref games you may have a point. Oddly enough that doesnt seem to be the case. The refs made a mistake, happens plenty times per game. Its part of the game.
I mean, no one will be up in arms in a running clock situation if the refs screw up something.
you sir are wrong wrong wrong the refs need to know the rules this was NOT a judgment call get real
A mistake? No what they did compromised the integrity of the game. THEY decided the outcome rather than having it settled on the field.
Their incompetence cost a group of young men the opportunity to compete for a state championship.
They will have to live with that forever.
No excuses, no sidestepping, no convoluted analogies.
Al they had to do was pull out the rule book and apply it.
That's their JOB. A mistake is an error in judgment, a bad spot, a questionable holding or interference call.
This was simply people not doing what they were sent there to do---apply the rules.
These pathetically inept bozos are scheduled to be downstate next week.
I'd strongly advise both coaches to have their rule book at the ready.
I'll try to dumb this down for you: the game is over when the officials say it's over. Until then, it is the coaches' responsibility to have their respective teams ready for all eventualities.
In fact in those situations - it's not a bad thing to "make a few mistakes" and keeping the score from getting into the high 70's point differential and keep the clock rolling. I've seen it happen and neither team nor their fans complained one bit.
Timing and game situation totally matter.
I'll tell you all right now I've done it and seen it done more than once.
I don't think it should be labeled as a vendetta against Plainfield North.
You won't need to do that just walk in Friday or Saturday and you'd be alright.
Plainfield didn't do anything wrong, don't blame their players Swc. BTW... I think they should tweak the rule. U shouldn't be allowed to get away with a penalty on the last play, and why were they throwing the ball to begin with?
Interesting conversation today..... Loyola will be having a large crowd at the game, as support for Fenwick getting royally hosed by first the refs and then the gutless IHSA, do the Rambler faithful in support of their CCL comrades go all out in their support of East St. Louis?
I disagree, Plainfield North has the opportunity to do the right thing here and they are not......Go Flyers #CCLpride
One thing doesn't have to do with the other. This isn't an IHSA vs CCL thing. This is about the IHSA hiding behind a hand washing by-law instead of correcting the situation.
Loyola needs to worry about the,selves, poor little catholic league boys have their hands full with Maine south. As for fenwick crybabys that want to take it out on Plainfield north, go say 10 hailmarys and get ready for basketball season. Bartman effect here, still could have won the game by blocking a field goal, playing overtime defense, and stopping a basic off tackle run play for a two point conversion.
Plainfield North is not above correcting the situation, they could do what is right and refuse the bid, as there was a clear error, so they are equally as incorrect as the refs, and the IHSA... someone needs to step up and to the right thing, all I see is the IHSA and Plainfield North doing nothing
Correct. But I don't think PN has to or should do anything. They are following the IHSA sanctioned results. Since the moment the correct call was incorrectly enforced, the onus was on, and only on, the IHSA to correct the situation.
You do understand that the IHSA has already said the result is official, correct? So, if PFN "does the right thing" in your eyes, you realize that the final game will be a forfeit win for ESL.
Just like fenwick would if roles were reversed. And who is to say the IHSA would allow them to do that?
Stop with the Plainfield Nirth should do the right thing narrative it's not in them nor should they be forced to
sounds like sour grapes did your team lose? the ramblers are worried about ms its called RESPECT ps . we are not little catholic boys we areBIG catholic league boys!
The focus to do the right thing should be on the IHSA, not on the school that the IHSA has finessed into a no win situation.
Or walking off the field after the call? No Fenwick didn't do that because they didn't know the rule either. That's why They kept playing. Maybe the Fenwick coaches should be fired for not knowing the rules? Let's quit trying to hang the officials for making a bad call. Crap I can't believe I am sticking up for the Refs. Thank less job!
It's a sad situation for all involved even PN.
A lot of assumptions are being made here. Oddly enough there are a lot of very good opinions. Also, before I start, I am an active varsity football official for the past 20 years now.
Anyway, I think the refs on that game are probably completely devastated, but will accept their "punishment". Officials are funny that way. We have LOVED the game our entire adult lives (why else would we do it?) and want to get everything right all the time. The good ones are like that. All the way into the NFL.
Second, as everyone has been saying - it was a very bad mistake. All opinions aside, that very situation is covered at least once per season during at least one of our Officials' association meetings. Mistakes will always happen, that's why there's an IHSA.
Third, officials at that level are expected to know those rulings without the aid of a rule book. I personally wouldn't think very much of semifinals officials that were fumbling through rule books during the game. Maybe the IHSA could also require the evaluators they assign to every play-off game for rules interpretations on any game starting in the quarter-finals. Instant replay would be bad right now. Not enough affordable technology yet.
Last, I agree that the IHSA should step up and do the right thing - without a court decision (in hindsight). Why do we have a governing body if they won't govern? It's a tough job. Nobody is saying it isn't. But if we accept the awesome privilege of being assigned to a State Semi-Final game, we must accept responsibility if we screw up.
Thanks for letting me express my opinions.
Anyway, I think the refs on that game are probably completely devastated, but will accept their "punishment". Officials are funny that way. We have LOVED the game our entire adult lives (why else would we do it?) and want to get everything right all the time. The good ones are like that. All the way into the NFL.
Second, as everyone has been saying - it was a very bad mistake. All opinions aside, that very situation is covered at least once per season during at least one of our Officials' association meetings. Mistakes will always happen, that's why there's an IHSA.
Third, officials at that level are expected to know those rulings without the aid of a rule book. I personally wouldn't think very much of semifinals officials that were fumbling through rule books during the game. Maybe the IHSA could also require the evaluators they assign to every play-off game for rules interpretations on any game starting in the quarter-finals. Instant replay would be bad right now. Not enough affordable technology yet.
Last, I agree that the IHSA should step up and do the right thing - without a court decision (in hindsight). Why do we have a governing body if they won't govern? It's a tough job. Nobody is saying it isn't. But if we accept the awesome privilege of being assigned to a State Semi-Final game, we must accept responsibility if we screw up.
Thanks for letting me express my opinions.
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IHSA has never even been good, let alone great. Most would consider them a necessary evil. An over compensated bunch as well.
#NotMyStateAthleticAssociation
#NotMyStateAthleticAssociation
Great post, Pops. Do you think the crew from that game would breathe a collective sigh of relief if the IHSA did as you suggest relative to doing the right thing?
Pops:
Great insight. I do, however, disagree with your remark over the sight of the officials pawing through the rule book in a semi-final game. Given the consequences of the game, one should reasonably conclude the IHSA would assign one of their better crews to officiate a game of this significance. While I sympathize with the crew for their error, I actually would find comfort with a crew referring to the rule book when a matter such as this emerged.
This was neither an encroachment nor was it a holding penalty: It was a penalty which required conversation among the referees and from what I understand, brought the game to a brief halt by a discussion over what had occurred and how to address it. By ignoring the rule book, we are in a mess and the matter is now thrown into a courtroom.
My problem with the IHSA is it has completely refused to acknowledge its responsibility to govern fairly for all members. This is not the first time a matter such as this has surfaced and the IHSA leadership has refused to institute policies to prevent such incidents from occurring again. Had the IHSA adopted a policy in which an appeal procedure was available to member schools, the affair would have been completely resolved by Sunday afternoon.
By refusing to endorse a policy allowing for an appeal for outcomes to athletic events in which there is substantial and credible evidence of human error, the IHSA is signaling it is uninterested in fulfilling their responsibilities as responsible stewards of equitable athletic competition in this state.
I want to emphasize I am untroubled by the officials' error; I do not lay blame with either the PN or Fenwick football staffs; and I am not using this forum to attack officials, coaches or players.
I blame the IHSA for this horror show.