Final 2014 4A NCPreps.com Baker's Dozen Poll

[Deana_King_rivals106402]

4A

1. New Bern (3) 16-0 - 63
2. Mallard Creek (2) 15-1 - 62
3. Wake Forest 15-1 - 55
4. Charlotte Catholic 14-2 - 50
5. Lake Norman 13-2 - 36
6. Independence 12-1 - 34
7. Garner 13-2 - 32
8. Hoggard 13-1 - 26
9. Scotland County 12-2 - 23
10. Richmond County 11-2 - 15
10. Vance 11-4 - 15
12. Hough 10-4 - 13
13. Reagan 12-2 - 12

HONORABLE MENTION: Dudley (0-10) - 11; Butler (10-3) - 7; Millbrook (11-3) - 2; Hillside (9-5) - 2;

 

[lovethembears]

Go Bears!!!

 

[BlueandGold34]

Zero wins gets you a HONORABLE mention at NCpreps. Fascinating

 

[Deana_King_rivals106402]

I didn't vote for them and basically disqualified them from being picked when I sent the list out, but 2 people voted for them despite the forfeits.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[BlueandGold34]

Did anyone vote for JM Robinson? They had zero wins as well.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

In reference to Dudley. The fact that they had to forfeit all their wins still does not diminish the fact that they were a very good FB team. This poll ranks the teams in terms of how good they are. It has nothing to do with their record. Had they not screwed up they would more than likely have won the 4A championship and would have been ranked no. 1. Had JM Riobinson been as good as Dudley and had a 0-11 record then my answer would have been the same. Comparing the two schools is like comparing apples and oranges because one was good and the other was not very good. Plus as she said the members vote for the teams. So blame the members. Like you they have an opinion.

This post was edited on 1/2 11:26 AM by No.1RamsFan

 

[BlueandGold34]

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
In reference to Dudley. The fact that they had to forfeit all their wins still does not diminish the fact that they were a very good FB team. This poll ranks the teams in terms of how good they are. It has nothing to do with their record. Had they not screwed up they would more than likely have won the 4A championship and would have been ranked no. 1. Had JM Riobinson been as good as Dudley and had a 0-11 record then my answer would have been the same. Comparing the two schools is like comparing apples and oranges because one was good and the other was not very good. Plus as she said the members vote for the teams. So blame the members. Like you they have an opinion.


This post was edited on 1/2 11:26 AM by No.1RamsFan

- If it has nothing to do with their record then why post their record next to their ranking?

- You have zero idea how they would have fared in the playoffs and saying they would have won discredits all the schools who played by the rules especially New Bern.

- Had they not screwed up?? Makes it sound like a oversight. They blatantly disregarded a rule every game this season and then when they got caught they tried to spin it into a misunderstanding of when the JV season had ended knowing they had done it all year.

- They had every win they had this season invalidated by the NCHSAA which means they had the same amount of success as JM Robinson and ranking them as a top 20 team discredits the other schools that did actually win games without breaking those rules.

She said herself she disqualified them from being on the ballot so clearly Ms. King feels the same way.

 

[lovethembears]

Originally posted by Blue and Gold22:

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
In reference to Dudley. The fact that they had to forfeit all their wins still does not diminish the fact that they were a very good FB team. This poll ranks the teams in terms of how good they are. It has nothing to do with their record. Had they not screwed up they would more than likely have won the 4A championship and would have been ranked no. 1. Had JM Riobinson been as good as Dudley and had a 0-11 record then my answer would have been the same. Comparing the two schools is like comparing apples and oranges because one was good and the other was not very good. Plus as she said the members vote for the teams. So blame the members. Like you they have an opinion.


This post was edited on 1/2 11:26 AM by No.1RamsFan

- If it has nothing to do with their record then why post their record next to their ranking?

- You have zero idea how they would have fared in the playoffs and saying they would have won discredits all the schools who played by the rules especially New Bern.

- Had they not screwed up?? Makes it sound like a oversight. They blatantly disregarded a rule every game this season and then when they got caught they tried to spin it into a misunderstanding of when the JV season had ended knowing they had done it all year.

- They had every win they had this season invalidated by the NCHSAA which means they had the same amount of success as JM Robinson and ranking them as a top 20 team discredits the other schools that did actually win games without breaking those rules.

She said herself she disqualified them from being on the ballot so clearly Ms. King feels the same way.

Agree with all of that B&G!,,,, Shoulda, coulda, woulda....They cheated and got burned for it. To say they would have won 4A is RETARDED.

Go Bears!

 

[[email protected]]

So basically what you're saying in regards to Dudley. If we had not got caught cheating, we would have won it all?

Spoken like a true cheater.... Lmao!

 

[No.1RamsFan]

My point is if the rankings are about who the best teams are it has nothing to do with the fact that they had to forfeit all their games. The best team is still the best team regardless. To compare them with JM Robinson is a stretch. You cannot compare them with JM Robinson in terms of the quality of the teams. Personally I am not a fan of what the NCHSAA did to Dudley but because this was the rule it had to go the way it did. I am in favor of penalizing the school in terms of not being able to get any of the playoff money and not getting a home game. I am not in favor of punishing the kids. This poll is another issue all together and has nothing to do with what happened to them. The poll is about ranking the best teams in terms of quality. Are you telling me JM Robinsion would beat them on the field? The term screwed up means that they made the mistake. It had nothing to do with an oversight. Where did I say anything about an oversight? As far as me having any idea of how they would have done in the playoffs is concerned, I never said that they would have won it. I said based on how they played during the year they had a very good chance of winning it. I know for a fact that they would have been in the finals. Did you see them play this year? If you had you would have been impressed. It would have been a fight to the finish between them and New Bern.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

First of all I am not a Dudley fan so the word we was never used. If that is what you read then you need to take a reading refresher course. I definitely am not a cheater. You can laugh whatever part of your body off you want to. I don't care.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

Agree with all of that B&G!,,,, Shoulda, coulda, woulda....They
cheated and got burned for it. To say they would have won 4A is
RETARDED.

I never said they would have definitely won it all. I said they probably would have which means that they would have been in the finals. I saw no other team besides New Bern that had a chance to win it. CC never had a chance as far as I was concerned. To say I am retarded makes you look the same way. In fact I would never use that term when referring to anyone on this board.

 

[BlueandGold34]

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
My point is if the rankings are about who the best teams are it has nothing to do with the fact that they had to forfeit all their games. The best team is still the best team regardless. To compare them with JM Robinson is a stretch. You cannot compare them with JM Robinson in terms of the quality of the teams. Personally I am not a fan of what the NCHSAA did to Dudley but because this was the rule it had to go the way it did. I am in favor of penalizing the school in terms of not being able to get any of the playoff money and not getting a home game. I am not in favor of punishing the kids. This poll is another issue all together and has nothing to do with what happened to them. The poll is about ranking the best teams in terms of quality. Are you telling me JM Robinsion would beat them on the field? The term screwed up means that they made the mistake. It had nothing to do with an oversight. Where did I say anything about an oversight? As far as me having any idea of how they would have done in the playoffs is concerned, I never said that they would have won it. I said based on how they played during the year they had a very good chance of winning it. I know for a fact that they would have been in the finals. Did you see them play this year? If you had you would have been impressed. It would have been a fight to the finish between them and New Bern.

- The best team is the one or ones who played the best while following the established rules of the NCHSAA. Dudley doesn't qualify.

- Possibly JM Robinson was a poor analogy. Lets try this. Grimsley beat Dudley this year- How come they aren't ranked? How about Page?

- Had Dudley played JM Robinson this year JMR would have had one more win than Dudley.

- They didn't screw up, make a mistake or have a oversight. They either willfully choose to ignore the rule or didn't feel it was an important enough part of their responsibilities to have a comprehensive understanding of the rule or rules.

- Fact= a thing that is indisputably the case. You have a opinion, a feeling or possibly a guess which is fine but you are nowhere in the vicinity of a fact.

I have my own opinion about what happened here and I believe it was tragic but to rank them among the top teams in the state discredits those teams that did play, win and did so by the rules.

 

[lovethembears]

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
Agree with all of that B&G!,,,, Shoulda, coulda, woulda....They
cheated and got burned for it. To say they would have won 4A is
RETARDED.

I never said they would have definitely won it all. I said they probably would have which means that they would have been in the finals. I saw no other team besides New Bern that had a chance to win it. CC never had a chance as far as I was concerned. To say I am retarded makes you look the same way. In fact I would never use that term when referring to anyone on this board.

I was referring to the comment, not you.

 

[utbb01]

To me rankings are OPINIONS and not facts!! And in my opinion I have Mallard Creek first and Dudley second then New Bern third. I have no problem with Dudley being included in the rankings(opinions).

 

[No.1RamsFan]

They didn't screw up, make a mistake or have a
oversight. They either willfully choose to ignore the rule or didn't
feel it was an important enough part of their responsibilities to have a
comprehensive understanding of the rule or rules.

To me a screw up encompasses all of those things.


Grimsley beat Dudley this year- How come they aren't ranked? How about Page?

Neither Grimsley nor Page beat them this year. They were undefeated until they had to forfeit their wins.

This post was edited on 1/3 9:48 PM by No.1RamsFan

 

[BlueandGold34]

Neither Grimsley nor Page beat them this year. They were undefeated until they had to forfeit their wins.


This post was edited on 1/3 9:48 PM by No.1RamsFan

I think if you look very closely you will find that both Grimsley and Page have " W's" next to the Dudley game which is exactly my point. Dudley has zero wins for 2014. You can argue if you want about fairness but the NCHSAA has them without a single win. If you didn't win any games then how can you be considered one of the best teams?

 

[ross-blue&gold]

Originally posted by Deana_King:
4A

1. New Bern (3) 16-0 - 63
2. Mallard Creek (2) 15-1 - 62
3. Wake Forest 15-1 - 55
4. Charlotte Catholic 14-2 - 50
5. Lake Norman 13-2 - 36
6. Independence 12-1 - 34
7. Garner 13-2 - 32
8. Hoggard 13-1 - 26
9. Scotland County 12-2 - 23
10. Richmond County 11-2 - 15
10. Vance 11-4 - 15
12. Hough 10-4 - 13
13. Reagan 12-2 - 12

HONORABLE MENTION: Dudley (0-10) - 11; Butler (10-3) - 7; Millbrook (11-3) - 2; Hillside (9-5) - 2;

How many teams in the poll would defeat the "winless","honorably mentioned" Dudley Panthers ?
Some openings on the Panthers schedule
Get on there and let's find out !

 

[BlueandGold34]

Originally posted by ross-blue&gold:

Originally posted by Deana_King:
4A

1. New Bern (3) 16-0 - 63
2. Mallard Creek (2) 15-1 - 62
3. Wake Forest 15-1 - 55
4. Charlotte Catholic 14-2 - 50
5. Lake Norman 13-2 - 36
6. Independence 12-1 - 34
7. Garner 13-2 - 32
8. Hoggard 13-1 - 26
9. Scotland County 12-2 - 23
10. Richmond County 11-2 - 15
10. Vance 11-4 - 15
12. Hough 10-4 - 13
13. Reagan 12-2 - 12

HONORABLE MENTION: Dudley (0-10) - 11; Butler (10-3) - 7; Millbrook (11-3) - 2; Hillside (9-5) - 2;

How many teams in the poll would defeat the "winless","honorably mentioned" Dudley Panthers ?
Some openings on the Panthers schedule
Get on there and let's find out !

That would depend entirely on whether the Dudley coaching staff and administration decide to play by the rules or continue to have these " misunderstandings". If it is the latter than my answer would be any and all. If it is the former we will never know because the 2014 season has ended and champions have been crowned.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

As far as I am concerned since they did not beat them on the field they did not actually beat them. Look as closely as you want to but the truth was on the field. You can argue all you want that the forfeit means everything but to me it only means anything in terms of seedings. I have never argued anything about fairness. I accept the fact that they had to forfeit all their wins. We are all aware of that. The fact still remains that until someone beats them on the field I will continue to say that they were one of the top 4A teams in terms of their accomplishments on the field.

This post was edited on 1/4 11:06 PM by No.1RamsFan

 

[BlueandGold34]

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
As far as I am concerned since they did not beat them on the field they did not actually beat them. Look as closely as you want to but the truth was on the field. You can argue all you want that the forfeit means everything but to me it only means anything in terms of seedings. I have never argued anything about fairness. I accept the fact that they had to forfeit all their wins. We are all aware of that. The fact still remains that until someone beats them on the field I will continue to say that they were one of the top 4A teams in terms of their accomplishments on the field.


This post was edited on 1/4 11:06 PM by No.1RamsFan

Interesting. So if for example they were using 19 year old kids or kids that lived out side of the district you would still consider their accomplishments on the field valid?? Is it just a matter of degrees as far as breaking rules? How about kids that didn't meet the academic requirements?

 

[utbb01]

B&G, you're an intelligent poster so why are you acting like you don't understand RamsFan point. I think he/she understands your point as I understand your point. But Dudley didn't gain a competitive advantage they made a big mistake. But what happened on the field did happen. Their mistake doesn't erase that and if some people wish to use that as criteria then they can. Just like youre valid if you choose not to!!

 

[BlueandGold34]

Originally posted by utbb01:
B&G, you're an intelligent poster so why are you acting like you don't understand RamsFan point. I think he/she understands your point as I understand your point. But Dudley didn't gain a competitive advantage they made a big mistake. But what happened on the field did happen. Their mistake doesn't erase that and if some people wish to use that as criteria then they can. Just like youre valid if you choose not to!!

I understand it. I just don't agree with it. I don't know for certain that it didn't provide them with a competitive advantage. You dress more kids you have more flexibility and options at a number of different positions even if those extra kids never touched the field. That however isn't the larger concern and its why I asked the question. Does a kid who is 19 provide a competitive advantage? What would be the line?? For me its simple ineligible is ineligible and a loss is a loss no matter what the circumstances and so because of that they shouldn't show up on any post season poll or accolade.

As you know I am a Mallard Creek supporter. 2008 was miserable. Self reported ineligible player reported by a undefeated team on a situation that there was a 99% chance would have snuck through unnoticed. Kid was a out of state student who had already done a year of high school and then moved to North Meck and repeated freshman year. Then moves to Mallard Creek on redistricting when it opened and the initial freshman year never gets caught until 3 years later 2 games before the playoffs started. Bang- forfeit all games, no playoffs... tragic. Truly a " Oversight" but there is a reason this crap is hardlined and though painful I supported the decision then and I do now.

Its a silly poll and in the end matters little. I am done with commentary because I am sure the Dudley people would like it to just be over and I agree. For the kids and parents sake it has been a terrible chapter. I only brought it up because I found the fact they were listed a bit surprising and that has fallen into a little friendly give and take between myself and Rams. No harm no foul and its the last I will say on the subject. I wish the Panthers all the success in the world going forward and hope we get the chance to scrimmage again next year. It was a good early August test.

 

[No.1RamsFan]

Interesting. So if for example they were using 19 year
old kids or kids that lived out side of the district you would still
consider their accomplishments on the field valid?? Is it just a matter
of degrees as far as breaking rules? How about kids that didn't meet
the academic requirements?

No. To me there are degrees of infractions. Your example is a serious one which would result in having their wins changed to loses and being disqualified from the playoffs. . The same for playing academically ineligible kids. A player illegally participating in a game (junior playing Thurs. night and then playing Fri. night) to me is a minor infraction and would result is losing home field advantage as well as the loss of any gate money plus their HC being disqualified from coaching the team in the playoffs-practice and games). Another point that I find interesting is that there are a few systems that require a 2.0 GPA while all the rest only require a kid to pass 3 out of 4 or 5 out of 6. I have no problem with this requirement as long as all schools have this requirement. But for some to have it and other not to have it creates an unlevel playing field and is not fair to the kids.

 

[lovethembears]

lol....relax fellas. The New Bern Bears are your 2014 4A Champions...They would have beaten the brakes off of Dudley!
Go Bears!

 

[rams10]

New Bern would not have beaten the breaks off of Dudley, it would have been a good game. My personal opinion I would have given Dudley a slight edge, but we never will know.

 

[hokiemtc]

Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
Another point that I find interesting is that there are a few systems that require a 2.0 GPA while all the rest only require a kid to pass 3 out of 4 or 5 out of 6. I have no problem with this requirement as long as all schools have this requirement. But for some to have it and other not to have it creates an unlevel playing field and is not fair to the kids.

I totally agree with this. There's some serious beef roaming the halls of some of the schools in CMS that will never see the field because of the 2.0 rule, and I'd LOVE to see what kind of football teams that Meck Co could create if they weren't hampered by this restriction. Or - on the flip side of that argument - at least the other school systems wouldn't be playing their non-qualifiers, either.

Open enrollment is another unfair advantage that some counties have.

 

[NBBears20124ACHAMPS]

Only thing we have to go on is this....

New Bern 12 Hillside 0 Week 1 in Durham
Dudley 12 Hillside 9 Week 4 in Durham
New Bern 13 Hillside 7 3rd Round of 4A Playoffs in New Bern

 

[No.1RamsFan]

Which tells me that a game between NB and Dudley would have been a good one. Plus HS was pretty good as well.

 

[scotland43]

Originally posted by lovethembears:
lol....relax fellas. The New Bern Bears are your 2014 4A Champions...They would have beaten the brakes off of Dudley!
Go Bears!

Oh Snap!!!!!!

 

[ct147]

Originally posted by scotland43:

Originally posted by lovethembears:
lol....relax fellas. The New Bern Bears are your 2014 4A Champions...They would have beaten the brakes off of Dudley!
Go Bears!

Oh Snap!!!!!!

They would have gotten this

. Just wondering how is the leader of skirt wearers doing.The one known asGO GO SCOTS been mighty quiet of late.

 

[lovethembears]

Originally posted by scotland43:

Originally posted by lovethembears:
lol....relax fellas. The New Bern Bears are your 2014 4A Champions...They would have beaten the brakes off of Dudley!
Go Bears!

Oh Snap!!!!!!

lol..I call em like I see em 43. I got to know McKoy and McMillan at the SB. Great kids!