Flu

[NWADawg]

There's been a ton of arguments on here and other sites about whether or not CV and Flu are comparable.

This isn't about medical data but about perception.

The flu kills 30k- 60k people every year. So, if next year was an abnormally bad flu (or name your preferred sickness) year and say 150k died from the flu, does anyone believe that the govt. would take any SIP measures? shut down large venues? Is there a point where flu would be treated in a similar way?

How many flu deaths would have to occur before the general population would start self quarantining, wearing masks, etc.?

 

[thatsbaseball]

Have they even figured out if Covid-19 is seasonal ? The CDC seems to wake in a new world every morning.

 

[pmack3641]

Since stats are the norm these days in the 30-60 thousand who potentially die from the flu how many of those people didn't recieve the flu shot that's available prior and during the season. Also how many of those had underlying conditions and were in the category of 65 and older. Also how many flu shots were given during the same period. IMO it seems difficult to compare each strain as the current one is more deadly and there isn't any vaccines available as there are for the seasonal flu. Also the medical field seems to adapt vaccines with each new strain of the flu in most seasons. There are many unknown answers regarding Covid and until there is comparing one against the other, even though there are similarities, may not be a true indicator.

 

[L4Dawg]

There's been a ton of arguments on here and other sites about whether or not CV and Flu are comparable.

This isn't about medical data but about perception.

The flu kills 30k- 60k people every year. So, if next year was an abnormally bad flu (or name your preferred sickness) year and say 150k died from the flu, does anyone believe that the govt. would take any SIP measures? shut down large venues? Is there a point where flu would be treated in a similar way?

How many flu deaths would have to occur before the general population would start self quarantining, wearing masks, etc.?

We have a vaccine (which most refuse to take) and treatments for flu. We don't for this.

 

[L4Dawg]

Have they even figured out if Covid-19 is seasonal ? The CDC seems to wake in a new world every morning.

It's a new virus, and we have people expecting them to know everything about it immediately. It doesn't work like that. It doesn't help that the place with the initial outbreak, shall we say processed, the initial data they were putting out.

 

[GloryDawg]

Have they even figured out if Covid-19 is seasonal ? The CDC seems to wake in a new world every morning.

The CDC learns something new about it everyday which is a good thing even if what they learn was something they were wrong about before. By the time the Flu Season gets here in the fall, they will know a lot more about the virus. Knowledge is what's going to keep a second wave from happening.

 

[Captain Ron]

We have a vaccine (which most refuse to take) and treatments for flu. We don't for this.

Even if we all take the vaccine, we know it is not 100% effective. There will be fatalities even if we all get the shot. SIP would no doubt flatten the curve (actually it has already for this year).

Do those lives not matter as much to you?

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

I'll be interested to see if Covid-19's mortality rate ends up being higher than the flu after the number of Covid vaccines given approaches the number of vaccines we give in the U.S. for the flu. It could very well end up being at or below flu deaths if and when we get an effective vaccine. Of course we're at least a year, probably much longer out from that instance.

 

[thatsbaseball]

I got that but two things jump out to me. 1) We start out being told to not wear masks because they are bad for you....now a complete about face. 2) We were told that the disease was easily contracted from touching surfaces that an infected person had touched....now, within the last few days, we're told by the CDC that is highly unlikely. I've read your posts and know that you are way more well read and informed on this than me but even a numb skull like myself can't be any more wrong than that. AND I make my "guesses" for free. LOL

 

[Len2003]

Have they even figured out if Covid-19 is seasonal ? The CDC seems to wake in a new world every morning.

That tends to happen when you're dealing with a virus that has only been around for several months.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Well duh. My point is I expected better from them than being 180 degrees wrong and having to correct themselves on some basic issues that have had a major impact on our overall reaction to the virus. I.E. masks and contaminated surfaces.

 

[ckDOG]

It's a fair question, but the answer relates to the ceiling

There's been a ton of arguments on here and other sites about whether or not CV and Flu are comparable.

This isn't about medical data but about perception.

The flu kills 30k- 60k people every year. So, if next year was an abnormally bad flu (or name your preferred sickness) year and say 150k died from the flu, does anyone believe that the govt. would take any SIP measures? shut down large venues? Is there a point where flu would be treated in a similar way?

How many flu deaths would have to occur before the general population would start self quarantining, wearing masks, etc.?

I think even in a bad flu year, society is comfortable with the ceiling in possible death. With a novel disease that has a higher R0, your ceiling goes wayyyyyy up We're going to see about the same death through August as a "bad flu year" and we shut ourselves down. I'm not going to argue we shut down the right way, but had we done nothing, it's reasonable to expect that number to go way way up - potentially to the millions.

What I've learned through this is we need better planning and infrastructure for the next time this happens (it will). I think a reaction was merited, but it was leaderless with little to no firm guidance - hence, panic and likely some overreaction in certain areas. We've got to be better now that time and "do nothing" and "shut completely down" are not acceptable strategies. Yeah, it's a new disease and a lot to learn about it, but I feel we were failed on the simple basics of avoiding transmitting of a virus passes through the air. It should have been anticipate that a virus like that would happen sooner than later. History says they are frequent.

 

[L4Dawg]

Even if we all take the vaccine, we know it is not 100% effective. There will be fatalities even if we all get the shot. SIP would no doubt flatten the curve (actually it has already for this year).

Do those lives not matter as much to you?

ell
We still have a vaccine AND a treatment for flu. If you can't see why that makes a difference then ………well. Get your flu shot this time, it's NEVER been more important.

 

[L4Dawg]

I'll be interested to see if Covid-19's mortality rate ends up being higher than the flu after the number of Covid vaccines given approaches the number of vaccines we give in the U.S. for the flu. It could very well end up being at or below flu deaths if and when we get an effective vaccine. Of course we're at least a year, probably much longer out from that instance.

People keep trotting out the flu. We actually don't count flu deaths. We never have.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

As of today 50% of all Covid deaths in Mississippi are Long Term Care Deaths and the percentage is increasing ... 80% of all Mississippi Covid deaths are 60 and over. The Flu is deadlier to younger people and children while Covid is deadlier for older...

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

It's a calculated estimate. Which is what we'll have to go with sans a hard cause of death count.

 

[L4Dawg]

I got that but two things jump out to me. 1) We start out being told to not wear masks because they are bad for you....now a complete about face. 2) We were told that the disease was easily contracted from touching surfaces that an infected person had touched....now, within the last few days, we're told by the CDC that is highly unlikely. I've read your posts and know that you are way more well read and informed on this than me but even a numb skull like myself can't be any more wrong than that. AND I make my "guesses" for free. LOL

We started out on the surface thing because that's what we were told by the Chinese. They were denying that person to person airborne transmission was happening. We have our own data now, real data. The mask thing is DIRECTLY tied to that. Wearing a mask protects you from others somewhat, even if it's a cloth mask. It protects others from you much more effectively. That's why they want everyone to wear one. If it was mostly from touching contaminated surfaces, given what most people do with a mask, it probably would be counter productive.

 

[Captain Ron]

ell
We still have a vaccine AND a treatment for flu. If you can't see why that makes a difference then ………well. Get your flu shot this time, it's NEVER been more important.

The CDC estimates between 24k and 62k flu deaths this year on their website.

So, even with a treatment and a vaccine, 1000s of people die each year and the curve could be flattened with SIP.

You have had a very strong opinion on this subject. When individual post about getting back to work, you say “which one of your family members are you willing to sacrifice?”

I am just trying to understand where your line in the sand is with regards to avoidable fatalities/SIP and guilting the posters above?

 

[Sapsdawg]

Masks have not been proven effective here. Over half the respirators i see have an exhalation valve. Wearing one with an exhalation valve does nothing to protect others. The virus is 1 micron and N95 only filters 3 microns or larger. They givea false sense of security and people get closer with them on, then they touch their face much more often because it moves. Not to mention no one has been fit tested and I see people with beards wearing them. If there is an uptick in cases you're going to blame easing of restrictions rather than the conincidental increased use of respirators which would help if you're using the right one, had a fit test, and know how to don it properly when cleanly shaved and without an exhalation valve. Otherwise, minimal if any help and may increase the risk.

 

[NWADawg]

ell
We still have a vaccine AND a treatment for flu. If you can't see why that makes a difference then ………well.

So if CV had a vaccine and a treatment and 90k people still died, it would be no issue? life as normal?

I'm not trying to determine which is worse, what actions are right or wrong, political party...... I'm just trying to understand perception.

If 100k people died of flu or strep or any other common contagious sickness every year, would general public want social distancing, masks, etc. to be enforced seasonally? Where is the line and who, how, why is the decision made on which deaths are more important? Where is the line in the sand?


- For the record, I have stated before and I'll state again, I believe all that are not in high risk categories should have already been back to normal functioning. The high risk should be treated as such until medical advancements allow them not to be.

 

[seshomoru]

And

We have a vaccine (which most refuse to take) and treatments for flu. We don't for this.

The flu is far less contagious if you are asymptomatic, and then it's obvious when you are symptomatic and can remove yourself from people for a while. Easy to do.

This appears to transmit easily from asymptomatic carriers. That means you have to take steps as a population to slow it down. That's a lot harder than one person staying home with the flu.