Wash your hands and stay at distance from elderly. That's a great byproduct of the pandemic. Will result in lives saved.
Be careful giving any credibility to anything online.
Flu
- Thread starter She Mate Me
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Be careful giving any credibility to anything online.
Opening up across state lines wouldn't do anything. Insurance companies already can sell in multiple states - the big nationals like United, Humana, Centene, etc., all sell all over the country. The Blue Cross plans generally don't, but that's because of contracts they have with each other that wouldn't change if they change that law.
The only difference it would make is that the big national insurance companies might be able to save some administrative costs by filing with only one state's insurance department, rather than every state's, but that's a drop in the bucket. They'd still have to do all of the same marketing, contracting with doctors and hospitals, etc., that they already do on the local level.
Every point I have made is totally honest. You don’t want to acknowledge that because it doesnt align with your ideology. That was a serious question: What type of research can you do on pulmonary issues? You did say that’s what you would do.
After taking the flu shot at work for 5 straight years and missing the next two days of work sick as a dog every year of those 5 years, I quit taking it around 16 years ago. Back in 2019 I was diagnosed with the flu from a q-tip up my nose. My fever lasted exactly a day and a half and I didn't ever feel as bad as I did after taking the shot.
I just got over something a couple of weeks ago that to me is worse than the flu. I never had fever but felt like crap. 10% worse and I would have stayed home. 10% better and I would be ok. I was in that 'suck zone' where I was sick but not sick enough to stay home. It took a little over 2 weeks to shake it even with a steroid shot and antibiotics. I catch that crap every couple of years. Sometimes it lasts a month.
I just got over something a couple of weeks ago that to me is worse than the flu. I never had fever but felt like crap. 10% worse and I would have stayed home. 10% better and I would be ok. I was in that 'suck zone' where I was sick but not sick enough to stay home. It took a little over 2 weeks to shake it even with a steroid shot and antibiotics. I catch that crap every couple of years. Sometimes it lasts a month.
Here are your own words from your first reply to me in this thread.
"Yeah, no offense at all to the Doc or you, but that's not how I live my life. I'll absolutely listen to him because he has an expertise I don't, but I'll also get other viewpoints and make my decision from my own research."
What kind of pulmonary research do you do?
Where in that quote did I mention pulmonary research? Answer: I didn't.
We were discussing flu vaccines and their efficacy. I wanted to read the summary of the studies that concluded they are effective.
Making my decision from my own research was a comment on how I make decisions in general.
I'm now officially in the camp that believes you're an idiot, and kind of a Richard as well.
I'm truly done responding to you.
Sleep tight believing you won another debate if it warms your soul.
I went to my local clinic for my Health checkup two days ago. The nurse said for the last two weeks they have been seeing a ton of flu patients. She said this particular flu strain type “A” is unusually bad this year. Just passing this along.
Now back to y’all’s incessant bickering.
Now back to y’all’s incessant bickering.
We were discussing pulmonary issues, and so were you.….except in hindsight. You win. It’s hard to argue with hindsight.
Pretty much it for me. Flu shot & Im gonna feel like sh*t for a couple of days. Flu I’m down for almost a week but really don’t feel all that bad, just zero energy.
I get the flu shot almost every year and have for the last ~30 or so. I've had the flu twice since then. The first was in the late 2000s the year that they had a vaccine shortage and only elderly and immune compromised people could get it. The second was in 2019 when everyone in my house got it despite all of us getting the vaccine. That time I managed to catch it real early, so early that the first doctor I went to dismissed me as not having it despite everyone in my house getting it and me having the telltale chills and sudden fever that only the flu truly brings. Said my 99 degree fever couldn't be the flu despite me telling him I popped four Advil an hour earlier so I could drive. The second doc at a better urgent care said my flu test at first register negative but he took the test strip out of the reader and used his own eyes to see a faint line. It was that day that I learned doctors and nurses have to have a machine to read test strips for them.
The doc prescribed Xofluza and because I got it in my system so early I felt better by that afternoon. If you can get your hands on it, do it.
The doc prescribed Xofluza and because I got it in my system so early I felt better by that afternoon. If you can get your hands on it, do it.
You were correct dismissing that idiot the first time you told him you were you were done arguing with his dubmass. I was told decades ago to never argue with idiots. They will take you down to their low IQ level and beat you with experience.
It brings back memories of disagreements with my ex-wife. It was never ever about the facts and once she started losing absolutely any false statement was fair game.
I rarely had a bad experience with the annual required flu shot. However, every time I was forced to take the flu mist, I was sick for several days. I am not opposed to taking the shot, but I will never take the flu mist ever again
You are correct, but according to the interwebs While the potential exists under federal law for broad health insurance sales across state lines via compacts, it hasn't fully materialized due to significant regulatory and logistical hurdles, with current practices more common for non-health lines or within existing state agreements, according to www.urban.org and www.commonwealthfund.org.
Is this the book you cite? I’m very intrigued. Thanks.
Redefining-Health-Care-Value-Based-Competition
I’ve heard from a couple of people that the flu type A this year is pretty rough with a lot of vomiting and diarrhea.
Yes, same Michael Porter who developed Porter's Five Forces. It's dated but you will understand the complexity of it all.
I'm convinced it would be easier to have lasting peace in the Middle East than to "fix" the US Healthcare system. I say that with the anchor of not stifling innovation because no matter what anybody says nobody brings more healthcare advances to the public than the US Healthcare system. We just need to find a way to do it cheaper/more efficiently. That could increase up front cost but lower back end cost.....well there you go.....just one of the trade offs that would have to change.
Change is the keyword and it's not a few stakeholders that would have to pivot....it's massive including our own personal responsibility of how we take care of ourselves and how often we choose to consume services.
eta: what makes change so hard besides the inherent human resistance to it is it would reshuffle which stakeholders become winners/losers. For example, a change that's great for the consumer may suck for the insurance provider.
Most insurance covers standard of care but standard of care may not be the best care but it may be a whole lot cheaper than the best care in the short run. Consumer doesn't get the best care possible but insurance company and employers get cheaper coverage, etc., etc.
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sadly it will take out a few elderly right near/around Christmas/New YearsI’ve heard from a couple of people that the flu type A this year is pretty rough with a lot of vomiting and diarrhea.
No clue. Capitalism and healthcare don’t mix well. The other option is letting the government run it. I trained at the VA, I can promise you that doesn’t work. Unfortunately we have two sides of the government that are more concerned with beating each other than trying to fix things. And they are willing to burn it all to the ground before they work together to fix it. They also are in no way involving the actual people who do this for a living in the decision making process.
I will say this: there is one thing we could do that would lessen the load significantly. We spend way too much money on futile care. I run the ICU and I’m forced to keep people who are 98 years old with 0% chance of recovery alive for weeks and weeks and weeks. I can write in my note every day how care is futile but as long as the family tells me to keep going, I have to. I forget the percentages, but it’s insane how much money we spend on the last few weeks of life. Because of that everyone’s insurance cost exponentially more than it should. I’m not saying I should have cart Blanc when it comes to making decisions like that, but there should be some way that I am not forced to do what I think is unethical care on someone who is trying to die.
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This was absolutely a conclusion I came to when my mother was in the late stages of her life.
I come mostly from people who are guided by logic rather than emotion. It was obvious to those of us close to her that she was in her last days. We all would have been fine with making her as comfortable as possible and letting her pass with dignity. But that's just not how the system works when you have coverage that will pay for more than that it seems. It was frustrating.
Her last days were more stressful and difficult on her than they had to be because things were being done to keep her alive when the humane thing to do was to let her go. I was almost more angry than sad when it was all over. We really have issues in healthcare.
I really, really hate to hear that. Letting my patients pass away comfortably and offering their families as much peace as I can in doing so may be the thing I take the most pride in out of all the things I do in my job. I truly am sorry beyond words that her last days were so hard on not only her but your family as well. That should never happen.
That's very kind of you. I did my level best to not show anger toward the caregivers. They were competent and doing their best.
The system's not getting fixed in my lifetime so I'm not all that interested in hashing out specifics on how to fix it. But the younger generations really need to figure out a way to get this out of the hands of those with the wrong incentives and get it turned around.
I was already a curmudgeon, but that experience made me even more of a question everything guy. I just don't trust ingrained systems anymore and I wasn't that way in my 20's. Experience has made me a very different person.
I’ve had the flu multiple times the past 5 or 6 years. One time it was so bad I thought I was dying. I’ve also had Covid a couple times, and it was nothing compared to the flu. I got a flu shot last month (and shingles vaccine) - usually I forget to get a flu shot but Walgreens was doing them and I was like what the heck.
Whenever I get to the age they recommend the shingles vaccine I will be getting that with the quickness. Do not want shingles.
As you said previously, been and interesting and thoughtful thread. Complex problem where there's no "we just need to" answer best I can tell. Trade offs everywhere you look.
Sorry for the length here but your second point hit on a lot of thoughts and memories for me.
I've seen those staggering end of life numbers as well and reminded me of an article I read several years ago, "Why I hope to die at 75" and have kept the link since. No idea how I ran across it but needless to say the title caught my attention. Basic premise isn't a death wish but to stop all preventative things at 75 (his round number) and let nature take it from there. While there's an element of the healthcare cost it's more about quality of life (you and those around you). Written by Ezekiel Emanuel MD back in 2014 and thought you (and others) might find it interesting if you haven't read it. A little long but interesting perspective as we all age, me now 70. (thought the name looked familiar at the time and he is indeed from what might be called a high achieving family)
If you happen to subscribe to The Atlantic here's a link to the original otherwise it comes up on a Google search.
Why I Hope to Die at 75
An argument that society and families—and you—will be better off if nature takes its course swiftly and promptly
getpocket.com
My wife and I were fortunate to not face the sudden/early death of our parents but instead faced the "downsides" of 96, 94 and 2 92's. The slide started around 85 and from there they became different people. Understandably, their world shrank to primarily to the den and bedroom. Obsessed with their pill boxes and taking their blood pressure 10 times a day (and writing it down). Angry and frustrated with themselves and things in general. Then came the falls, "accidents", clean up and pain complaints. Both mothers passed away at home and thankfully met their desire to not be in a nursing home (and we didn't have to deal with that whole other subject). Both fathers died first during their last hospital trip when the decision was made.
All that as background why the article had such an impact on me while going through a lot of it. Lots of exceptions and everyone is different but I have no interest in becoming an "American immortal" as he puts it. My wife and I became adamant during that time we would do everything possible to keep our daughter from having to deal with as much of it as possible and best case, none. From the emotional stress of us becoming different people and care giving to any "decision" needing to be made.
Finally, I can imagine dealing with families is tough on what is about one of the most difficult decision that has to be made. My father was in ICU by the time I flew in and on an intubation tube trying to get his oxygen levels up. I sat with him for 3 days reading a book and starring at the monitor as the O line struggled to do anything. Late in the afternoon of the 3rd day the doctor walks in and says it's not working and we've have done all we can. We're going to pull the tube and turn up the morphine. Needless to say I was stunned and thought, this is really happening. Called my mother who was at home and my sister back to town. After a further consultation with someone who must have had "that job" we agreed and it and about 2 hours later he passed away. Thinking back and despite the shock at the time, I appreciate his candor and assertiveness that helped push along a difficult, but inevitable, decision.
Bit of a ramble but I'm blaming you for bringing up the subject.** Now back to our disappointing MBKB team and a hearty GTHOM. Go Dawgs .... both of them.
Thank you. I truly look forward to reading it. And thank you for talking about your family.As you said previously, been and interesting and thoughtful thread. Complex problem where there's no "we just need to" answer best I can tell. Trade offs everywhere you look.
Sorry for the length here but your second point hit on a lot of thoughts and memories for me.
I've seen those staggering end of life numbers as well and reminded me of an article I read several years ago, "Why I hope to die at 75" and have kept the link since. No idea how I ran across it but needless to say the title caught my attention. Basic premise isn't a death wish but to stop all preventative things at 75 (his round number) and let nature take it from there. While there's an element of the healthcare cost it's more about quality of life (you and those around you). Written by Ezekiel Emanuel MD back in 2014 and thought you (and others) might find it interesting if you haven't read it. A little long but interesting perspective as we all age, me now 70. (thought the name looked familiar at the time and he is indeed from what might be called a high achieving family)
If you happen to subscribe to The Atlantic here's a link to the original otherwise it comes up on a Google search.
Why I Hope to Die at 75
An argument that society and families—and you—will be better off if nature takes its course swiftly and promptly
My wife and I were fortunate to not face the sudden/early death of our parents but instead faced the "downsides" of 96, 94 and 2 92's. The slide started around 85 and from there they became different people. Understandably, their world shrank to primarily to the den and bedroom. Obsessed with their pill boxes and taking their blood pressure 10 times a day (and writing it down). Angry and frustrated with themselves and things in general. Then came the falls, "accidents", clean up and pain complaints. Both mothers passed away at home and thankfully met their desire to not be in a nursing home (and we didn't have to deal with that whole other subject). Both fathers died first during their last hospital trip when the decision was made.
All that as background why the article had such an impact on me while going through a lot of it. Lots of exceptions and everyone is different but I have no interest in becoming an "American immortal" as he puts it. My wife and I became adamant during that time we would do everything possible to keep our daughter from having to deal with as much of it as possible and best case, none. From the emotional stress of us becoming different people and care giving to any "decision" needing to be made.
Finally, I can imagine dealing with families is tough on what is about one of the most difficult decision that has to be made. My father was in ICU by the time I flew in and on an intubation tube trying to get his oxygen levels up. I sat with him for 3 days reading a book and starring at the monitor as the O line struggled to do anything. Late in the afternoon of the 3rd day the doctor walks in and says it's not working and we've have done all we can. We're going to pull the tube and turn up the morphine. Needless to say I was stunned and thought, this is really happening. Called my mother who was at home and my sister back to town. After a further consultation with someone who must have had "that job" we agreed and it and about 2 hours later he passed away. Thinking back and despite the shock at the time, I appreciate his candor and assertiveness that helped push along a difficult, but inevitable, decision.
Bit of a ramble but I'm blaming you for bringing up the subject.** Now back to our disappointing MBKB team and a hearty GTHOM. Go Dawgs .... both of them.
I cannot stress this one enough. I don’t care if you think vaccines come straight from the devil himself, get the shingles vaccine.
I had the worst case of chicken pox my doctor had ever seen. I can only imagine me with shingles won’t be pleasant.
I truly am glad kids now don’t have to go through chicken pox. I barely remember having them, but the memories I have are extraordinarily unpleasant
Got the two shingles vaccines after seeing a family member die from it getting in his spinal cord and eyes. Other coworkers have told me when they had it they could not get dressed without pain all over their skin for over a year. I can do broken bones, twisted ankles, knees, back and all that. I can't imagine dealing with topical pain on the skin worse than poison ivy and bee stings.
This reminds me so much of the 2020 debate. I wish we had access to those posts to show where one particular poster started with his argument and where he ended it before he got the ban
hammer.
“listen to the expert” yet if another doc with the same credentials says something different then they are a “quack.” Why? Because the majority opinion says Doc #1 is correct. Of course the majority has never been wrong on medical issues, ask George Washington.
I am not saying Doc 1 is wrong or right, but to pretend that the consensus or “experts” have never been wrong leading to negative consequences is worse than any ostrich with his head in the sand. (They don’t actually do that by the way)
hammer.
“listen to the expert” yet if another doc with the same credentials says something different then they are a “quack.” Why? Because the majority opinion says Doc #1 is correct. Of course the majority has never been wrong on medical issues, ask George Washington.
I am not saying Doc 1 is wrong or right, but to pretend that the consensus or “experts” have never been wrong leading to negative consequences is worse than any ostrich with his head in the sand. (They don’t actually do that by the way)
The elderly have a great deal in America. The over 65 cohort is the single biggest recipient of government wealth transfers and elderly women get the most because they live the longest. Most of the healthcare dollars spent on us are spent in the last year of our lives...just to keep us alive a few more months, or as in your case, weeks. That's not cheap. Young healthy people are getting screwed over.
I practice evidence based medicine. Every doctor should. It’s one thing to be looking at a confusing clinical picture and give your educated opinion, but it is something completely different to say that things that have been proven beneficial by multiple clinical studies and often decades of experience are wrong. It’s dangerous to patients. There are a few doctors out there that do exactly that, and they are always given a platform.
2020 is a separate animal I don’t want to get into. I still have PTSD. It was brand new so there was no evidence based medicine to practice. It was mishandled by every single person in a leadership position and because of that created an ungodly split between us as Americans. It was truly the biggest failure by leadership (all of them, literally all of them) that I have ever seen. Let’s please not argue that again. It’s thankfully over and I never want to be reminded of it again
I'm sure that the flu shot is partly a scam, but I feel so bad when I get the flu and its free here at work, I just say why not.
The mismanagement of Covid has caused the backlash we see today in Washington. It’s a disaster and they’re all to blame for it.
Response to 2020 in the beginning was probably the right thing. We didn't know how bad it would actually be, but we knew it could potentially wipe out a significant percentage of the population in worst case. Even as it was hospitals were overflowing and they were setting up tents in the parking garage for additional patient rooms. The problem was, we didn't back off nearly as soon as we should have, and of course it all got political.