For those calling for Holg's head... remember back 2 or 3

dogeered_again

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years when Clemson fans were calling for their coaches head? Dabo was "dead" in Clemson and I know enough Clemson fans to support that concern among their faithful. WVU was his "ice pick" in the chest. Give it a rest you lea of never faithful... It takes time a resolute faith to prevail.

Consider this one little overlooked fact. A coaching change will also lose two of our key and critical connections to the Florida recruiting pipeline. What do you think that will do to our prospects in the future?
 

Orlaco

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Good point.. ..if there wasn't an endless list of ****** 'never did anything' coaches that fans also wanted fired.

I suppose you think the exception is the rule.
 

eers1foru_rivals

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Do you remember back 2 or 3 years ago when Al Golden was gonna save Miami? Where is he? Oh yeah, FIRED! Why, you may ask? For underperforming at his job! Some coaches work out others don't. If we fire Dana the next guy may end up selling appliances in ten years. But he could also be the one who gets us a national championship.
If you catch your wife cheating do you hold onto her because you're afraid the next woman may be an even bigger *****? No you kick her out and try to do a better job at picking a better woman the next time!
 

HurdyGurdyEer

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If the team wins out, including a bowl game, Dana finishes the season with a 9-4 record. He ain't gonna be fired for a 9-4 record or even an 8-5 record. And I'm not gonna say he'll in fact be fired for 7-6.

Just wait and see how the team plays going forward and how things pan out.

Oh wait. I couldn't have just posted what I said. My mission, according to dogeered, is to stir up dissension.
 

dogeered_again

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Good point.. ..if there wasn't an endless list of ****** 'never did anything' coaches that fans also wanted fired.

I suppose you think the exception is the rule.


Read my post carefully and see if you and ascertain anything in there that relates to this discussion.i
 

Pushingtin

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comparing Dana to Dabo.....lol Kinda like comparing a Corvette to a Chevette just because they both begin with the same letter and both are cars!!! Someday you will learn that Dana just isn't a very good coach....well, maybe not some of you. As for you stupid hypothetical argument of losing pipeline to Florida......I'm going to have to assume that there are no more coaches out there that has connections or can recruit Florida.....do you even know how dumb you sound sometimes
 

wbgvwbgv

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years when Clemson fans were calling for their coaches head? Dabo was "dead" in Clemson and I know enough Clemson fans to support that concern among their faithful. WVU was his "ice pick" in the chest. Give it a rest you lea of never faithful... It takes time a resolute faith to prevail.

Consider this one little overlooked fact. A coaching change will also lose two of our key and critical connections to the Florida recruiting pipeline. What do you think that will do to our prospects in the future?


The concern shouldn't be over the trolls and low information fans wanting to fire the coach after every loss - every free unmonitored board on Rivals has them in abundance and for the most part they are ignored. The real concern is that the Miami rumors about Dana seem to be picking up steam.

Not only could our future Florida recruits be lost but also we could lose the ones on the current roster through transfers. I sure hope Lyons is on top of this one. If he waits to extend Dana's contract until the team is 8-4 and preparing for the next bowl game then it may be to late.
 

WVU-SE

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comparing Dana to Dabo.....lol Kinda like comparing a Corvette to a Chevette just because they both begin with the same letter and both are cars!!! Someday you will learn that Dana just isn't a very good coach....well, maybe not some of you. As for you stupid hypothetical argument of losing pipeline to Florida......I'm going to have to assume that there are no more coaches out there that has connections or can recruit Florida.....do you even know how dumb you sound sometimes

I don't know about that. Dabo is an absolute idiot who is an unbelievable recruiter in an extremely fertile recruiting are with a blank check for assistant coaches. They are on the cheap right now since Chad Morris left but they will be paying big bucks to keep their OC's in the future.
 

Samuel S

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That may be, but their absolute idiot is 70-26 overall, 41-7 since the Orange Bowl. Our genius is 22-24 since the Orange Bowl.

Clemson has defeated ranked Auburn, LSU, UGA, Ohio St., Oklahoma, Notre Dame and FSU twice over the past 3+ seasons. It has not lost to an unranked team during that period.

How many losses to unranked teams do we have in that period?

I'll take a successful idiot over a failing genius any day of the week.
 
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TexasforevEER

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I don't know about that. Dabo is an absolute idiot who is an unbelievable recruiter in an extremely fertile recruiting are with a blank check for assistant coaches. They are on the cheap right now since Chad Morris left but they will be paying big bucks to keep their OC's in the future.

Dabo was an every day type guy when he first took over as Clemson HC. A few wins and the fans put him on a pedestal. He now acts as if he inherited a throne and he has become King Dabo!
 

WVU-SE

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That may be, but their absolute idiot is 70-26 overall, 41-7 since the Orange Bowl. Our genius is 22-24 since the Orange Bowl.

Clemson has defeated ranked Auburn, LSU, UGA, Ohio St., Oklahoma, Notre Dame and FSU twice over the past 3+ seasons. It has not lost to an unranked team during that period.

How many losses to unranked teams do we have in that period?

I'll take a successful idiot over a failing genius any day of the week.

Can't disagree with you there. Just pointing out that there are several factors that contribute to being a successful head coach in this day and age. Dabo stumbled into that head coaching job since he was such a good recruiter. Most thought he was just a stop gap until they found the guy they wanted.

If Holgs went to UGA he win 10 games/year and an SEC champion and be considered they next Bear Bryant. Now we will never know as it won't happen but it could certainly happen.
 

Samuel S

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Well then maybe Georgia should consider hiring him because it's not impossible he won't waver between mediocrity and sucking there.

That's not really our concern. Our concern is what he has accomplished in his 5 seasons here. If the problem here is our program just isn't good enough to get by with a coach of his limited abilities even though he could hypothetically do better elsewhere, then we still need someone else even if the only problem is that he is a poor fit.

Obviously, I don't buy that for a second and believe he will underachieve relative to a program's potential no matter the situation because he simply is not a good head coach in any way, shape or manner. He has no outstanding strengths and his weaknesses are self-evident to anyone paying attention.
 
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Pushingtin

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Well then maybe Georgia should consider hiring him because it's not impossible he won't waver between mediocrity and sucking there.

That's not really our concern. Our concern is what he has accomplished in his 5 seasons here. If the problem here is our program just isn't good enough to get by with a coach of his limited abilities even though he could hypothetically do better elsewhere, then we still need someone else even if the only problem is that he is a poor fit.

Obviously, I don't buy that for a second and believe he will underachieve relative to a program's potential no matter the situation because he simply is not a good head coach in any way, shape or manner. He has no outstanding strengths and his weaknesses are self-evident to anyone paying attention.
Nice seeing that some people get it....but you can expect the usual Danapologist attacks in 5...4...3...2
 

BornAgainEer

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That may be, but their absolute idiot is 70-26 overall, 41-7 since the Orange Bowl. Our genius is 22-24 since the Orange Bowl.

Clemson has defeated ranked Auburn, LSU, UGA, Ohio St., Oklahoma, Notre Dame and FSU twice over the past 3+ seasons. It has not lost to an unranked team during that period.

How many losses to unranked teams do we have in that period?

I'll take a successful idiot over a failing genius any day of the week.

You can't ignore the fact that Dabo has access to recruits Dana hasn't over the last 3+ years. Based on recruiting, the results of each coach shouldn't be that surprising.

Recruiting rankings
2015 Clemson 4th WVU 33rd
2014 Clemson 13th WVU 45th
2013 Clemson 14th WVU 25th
2012 Clemson 14th WVU 48th
 

Samuel S

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But, but, I thought we needed to be patient with Dana because he was recruiting so well and had elevated the talent and depth to heights never before seen? I've been hearing for several years that the illusory "next year" will demonstrate his success in recruiting.

Sometimes it gets confusing when some of his defenders directly contradict others.

I agree that recruiting has not changed much (except for being abysmal at QB) during the Holgorsen years and that is part of the reason the team has not improved. Another big part, though, is that he does not do very well at developing players, and devising schemes that allow us to get the most out of the talent we do have. I also think he is way below average at motivating players and providing leadership.

Again, he's not particularly good at any aspect of being a head coach and has glaring flaws.
 

ThePunish-EER

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That may be, but their absolute idiot is 70-26 overall, 41-7 since the Orange Bowl. Our genius is 22-24 since the Orange Bowl.

Clemson has defeated ranked Auburn, LSU, UGA, Ohio St., Oklahoma, Notre Dame and FSU twice over the past 3+ seasons. It has not lost to an unranked team during that period.

How many losses to unranked teams do we have in that period?

I'll take a successful idiot over a failing genius any day of the week.
and I'll take Clemson' annual top 5 recruiting classes any day of the week. You want to blame Dana. Fact is WVU is not able to consistently recruit at that level.
 

Samuel S

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And if it doesn't, be prepared for more of the same mediocrity.

Why would we not want to start over rather than staying on this course?

Miami is, of course, not going to hire Holgorsen, nor will any other Power 5 school, but it would be a win for us. That no one with decision-making authority at any Power school would see it as a win for it means if we do make the change we will have to pay.
 

Pushingtin

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But, but, I thought we needed to be patient with Dana because he was recruiting so well and had elevated the talent and depth to heights never before seen? I've been hearing for several years that the illusory "next year" will demonstrate his success in recruiting.

Sometimes it gets confusing when some of his defenders directly contradict others.

I agree that recruiting has not changed much (except for being abysmal at QB) during the Holgorsen years and that is part of the reason the team has not improved. Another big part, though, is that he does not do very well at developing players, and devising schemes that allow us to get the most out of the talent we do have. I also think he is way below average at motivating players and providing leadership.

Again, he's not particularly good at any aspect of being a head coach and has glaring flaws.
Haven't you heard.....we are whoa is me West Virginia...
 

MountaineerWV

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years when Clemson fans were calling for their coaches head? Dabo was "dead" in Clemson and I know enough Clemson fans to support that concern among their faithful. WVU was his "ice pick" in the chest. Give it a rest you lea of never faithful... It takes time a resolute faith to prevail.

Consider this one little overlooked fact. A coaching change will also lose two of our key and critical connections to the Florida recruiting pipeline. What do you think that will do to our prospects in the future?

Well, Dabo has turned it around. Oh....yeah....starting in year #4 Clemson started winning 10 games per year and will against for the 5th straight year this year. Nice attempt, but there is NO comparison between Dabo and Dana. None at all. Dabo got the job done. Dana hasn't.
 
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jlaudiomaster

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years when Clemson fans were calling for their coaches head? Dabo was "dead" in Clemson and I know enough Clemson fans to support that concern among their faithful. WVU was his "ice pick" in the chest. Give it a rest you lea of never faithful... It takes time a resolute faith to prevail.

Consider this one little overlooked fact. A coaching change will also lose two of our key and critical connections to the Florida recruiting pipeline. What do you think that will do to our prospects in the future?
What you say about Dabo simply is not true. Are you referring to the Orange Bowl? They had just won the ACC, which had eluded them for so long under Bowden, they were elated. They Orange Bowl performance did not jeopardize his job. He did the right thing and fired his DC. Something that may have saved Stewart's job, had he fired some of his assistants that weren't getting the job done.
 

jlaudiomaster

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Also it was only his third full year as head coach and he had them winning the conference. again, something Bowden never accomplished at Clemson. Dabo's seat was never even warm.
 

eers1foru_rivals

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Three years in and winning the conference? Are you even allowed to do that? Someone tell Dana it's not a 10 year process. I don't think he knows!
 

Charleston Mountie

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When you are as well-paid as our coaches are, it is reasonable to expect a level of performance commensurate with that pay. We are not getting that result. I do not care about the problems the coaching staff faces, they are hired to do a job at a certain level and this crew is not performing at that level. It is all excuses and it is not tolerated in the business world for a new hire to still be performing like a rookie in year 5. You don't get 5 months at that level of performance in the business world. A coach should never get more than 3 to see steady, quantifiable progression. This staff has regressed in every area of their job expectations.

There is nothing they can do now to save their jobs and all of them are up for termination in any sane world. If we have to go through a new coach every three years 2 or 3 times until we find the right guy for us, then so be it.
 

WVUFanForever

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I am soooooo tired of hearing we can't get rid of Dana because the rebuilding would take 2-3 years.

How much worse off would we really be in a rebuilding effort than winning 18 games in three years.

Could rebuilding really be that much worse?
 
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ThePunish-EER

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When you are as well-paid as our coaches are, it is reasonable to expect a level of performance commensurate with that pay. We are not getting that result. I do not care about the problems the coaching staff faces, they are hired to do a job at a certain level and this crew is not performing at that level. It is all excuses and it is not tolerated in the business world for a new hire to still be performing like a rookie in year 5. You don't get 5 months at that level of performance in the business world. A coach should never get more than 3 to see steady, quantifiable progression. This staff has regressed in every area of their job expectations.

There is nothing they can do now to save their jobs and all of them are up for termination in any sane world. If we have to go through a new coach every three years 2 or 3 times until we find the right guy for us, then so be it.
we are 4-4 with 4 losses against 4 top 10-15 teams. You want to talk about stupid? Firing a coach for that is stupid. It's not like WVU was a preseason top 5 team. Anyone with a brain realizes we were replacing our QB and WR's from graduating starters. One of our WR's was the #8 overall pick in the NFL. There is no basis to fire them at this point. The program is much healthier today than the day Holgorson took over. The smart thing is, you wait to see these final 4 games before making a decision. Truthfully, we don't know what the bar of success is for us in the big 12.
 

Charleston Mountie

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we are 4-4 with 4 losses against 4 top 10-15 teams. You want to talk about stupid? Firing a coach for that is stupid. It's not like WVU was a preseason top 5 team. Anyone with a brain realizes we were replacing our QB and WR's from graduating starters. One of our WR's was the #8 overall pick in the NFL. There is no basis to fire them at this point. The program is much healthier today than the day Holgorson took over. The smart thing is, you wait to see these final 4 games before making a decision. Truthfully, we don't know what the bar of success is for us in the big 12.

Well, you are half right, which is an improvement for you. But you tend to toss out strawmen too, so you lose some of that.

We are in our 5th year under Holgorsen it is expected that his team be a top 20 team and win half of those games. Some of us expect after 5 years, to be a top ten team and win 3. Baylor and TCU can do it, who they heck are they? They are the Marshall's of Texas, that's who they are!

Being in the Big-12 blah-blah-blah, we get recruits at the same level as our conference. If we were in the AAC, we would have recruits from that level - well, don't look now, but guess what, we do. While we have 1 or 2 players that that are P-5 level players, the bulk of them are just Cincinnati-Marshall-Youngstown State material and they get the results that those teams would in these games - after 5 years!

I agree the team was in the toilet when Dana took over. What does that have to do about now? Stewart could not recruit, Dana can't either. I actually think Stewart could develop a player, I do not think Dana can - at least not at this level.

Dana should have been after year 3 when he went 2-7 in conference after seeing a drop from 4-5 and 5-2 (Big East). The days of a coach getting 5 -7 years to get his head screwed on straight are over. When they made a couple hundred thousand it was ok, but now they make a couple million or more. The expectations equal the paycheck and right now, Dana is laughing all the way to bank and phoning it in. Lyons needs to hang up on that call.
 

TexasforevEER

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Well, you are half right, which is an improvement for you. But you tend to toss out strawmen too, so you lose some of that.

We are in our 5th year under Holgorsen it is expected that his team be a top 20 team and win half of those games. Some of us expect after 5 years, to be a top ten team and win 3. Baylor and TCU can do it, who they heck are they? They are the Marshall's of Texas, that's who they are!

Being in the Big-12 blah-blah-blah, we get recruits at the same level as our conference. If we were in the AAC, we would have recruits from that level - well, don't look now, but guess what, we do. While we have 1 or 2 players that that are P-5 level players, the bulk of them are just Cincinnati-Marshall-Youngstown State material and they get the results that those teams would in these games - after 5 years!

I agree the team was in the toilet when Dana took over. What does that have to do about now? Stewart could not recruit, Dana can't either. I actually think Stewart could develop a player, I do not think Dana can - at least not at this level.

Dana should have been after year 3 when he went 2-7 in conference after seeing a drop from 4-5 and 5-2 (Big East). The days of a coach getting 5 -7 years to get his head screwed on straight are over. When they made a couple hundred thousand it was ok, but now they make a couple million or more. The expectations equal the paycheck and right now, Dana is laughing all the way to bank and phoning it in. Lyons needs to hang up on that call.

OK..................coaches make the big bucks in today's sports world. The expectations better not go up because..................the number of wins available to the coaches has remained the same. Every game results in both a win AND a loss. This is likely to never change. Bigger paychecks simply means that the coaches own the banks and don't need to phone it in. Maybe we need a bigger merry go round for coaches.