For those on the board that have lived or do live outside the south...

[WayboDawg]

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...s-in-10-charts/

This article has caused me to wonder if any Sixpacker has lived somewhere other than the South and whether or not non-southern states are leaps and bounds (in terms of jobs, entertainment, crime) ahead of the south like these type stories would have you believe. Maybe they'd care to confirm or deny the validity of this story based on their experiences. Personally, I've only visited a few non-southern states, and I've only lived in MS.

 

[aTotal360]

The only ranking I look at is "States less likely to have 17n Yankees".

 

[Xenomorph]

Where the 17 is the "Has Good College Football" ranking?

/though so

 

[57stratdawg]

I travel for work, so I've been all over the place. I've spent about a month in the Bay Area over the last Quarter. It's nice. Palo Alto is pretty neat.

My Fav places in North America (outside of the Southeast) are Calgary/Banff, Austin Texas, and Boaton. I wouldn't move to NYC/NJ for a $250K/year job. Can't stand that place.

 

[NewHampshireMafia]

I live in New Hampshire, the "best" state. The people from here seem to like it. Most of the people not from here seem to hate it. It's cold, small, and there's not much to do. When I comment that there's not much to do, people say, "I love snow shoeing, apple picking, and hiking." Sorry, not fun. The people are nice, and it's extremely safe. People in Mississippi are nice too, and I kind of miss danger. I have a friend from Louisiana who lives up here. I asked him what he misses the most about the south. He said "joie de vivre" - joy of life. It's lacking up here. It's almost like people look for things to do that sound quaint and fun, but there's not joy to it. Not like eating crawfish and watching college football or just sitting around with friends. If people like living here, more power to them, but I can't wait to move back south.

edit: there's also too many people up here who treat intelligence like a god and they spend 90% of their time trying not to embarrass themselves. that'd make anyone miserable.

 

[uptowndawg]

States with good food was also left off. Pretty sure my state would win that one. Suck it new hampshire.

 

[esplanade91]

It's annoying when people try to put numbers on qualitative data.

I see all sorts of poverty, racism, crime, and bad stuff on a daily basis with a Trump Tower thrown in there somewhere. Numbers are exaggerated in less saturated areas for a billion reasons, but a big one is the justice department in metro areas vs small towns. You're more likely to have charges dropped in Chicago than in Clarksdale, MS.

$X in Mississippi gets you 2x the house of what $X gets you in New Hampshire, and aside from the pretty leaves, you can have just as nice of a house. So what's there point? There are a lot of poor people sharing rooms in Mississippi? Quick, let's all run to New Hampshire!

Article is dumb. Living away from the south has given me more appreciate for it. Anyone who claims it's worse or whatever is misinformed and does dumb **** like look at number data to justify their uneducated opinion.

 

[Hammer Down]

I live in New Hampshire, the "best" state. The people from here seem to like it. Most of the people not from here seem to hate it. It's cold, small, and there's not much to do. When I comment that there's not much to do, people say, "I love snow shoeing, apple picking, and hiking." Sorry, not fun. The people are nice, and it's extremely safe. People in Mississippi are nice too, and I kind of miss danger. I have a friend from Louisiana who lives up here. I asked him what he misses the most about the south. He said "joie de vivre" - joy of life. It's lacking up here. It's almost like people look for things to do that sound quaint and fun, but there's not joy to it. Not like eating crawfish and watching college football or just sitting around with friends. If people like living here, more power to them, but I can't wait to move back south.

edit: there's also too many people up here who treat intelligence like a god and they spend 90% of their time trying not to embarrass themselves. that'd make anyone miserable.

It's all relative. If you have an extremely safe utopian-like area, then sooner or later some kid will go nuts because he got picked on and go on a shooting rampage. There is never a utopia, not in this life.

 

[NewHampshireMafia]

It's all relative. If you have an extremely safe utopian-like area, then sooner or later some kid will go nuts because he got picked on and go on a shooting rampage. There is never a utopia, not in this life.

There are a lot of suicides up here. Also lots and lots of heroin.

 

[Philly Dawg]

People in the same socioeconomic strata in the south are very similar to people in the same strata anywhere else. However, we have different proportions of persons in the various strata due to a relative lack of large urban areas.

 

[MaroonOldCrow]

Living away from the south has given me more appreciate for it.

I lived in San Diego for eight years. At first, it was really cool; head up to Big Bear and snowboard or ski in the morning, and be on the beach before sundown. Lots of "things to do," if you had the money for it...which gets expensive when you pile on the high cost of living. Oh, but the San Diego weather! Yeah, it's great for the first two years. Then you realize it's the same damn thing every day and the vast majority of the landscape is dirt brown all the time.

When I resigned my job to move back to Tennessee, my coworkers freaked out: "But they have tornadoes there!" I had to point out that they had earthquakes, wildfires, mudslides, and Tijuana sewage washing up on the beach.

 

[Seinfeld]

I have, and I would not return.

I've lived in Ann Arbor, and I travel a ton to Eden Prairie, and let me say this... those towns are absolutely awesome in the Spring and Summer. Good people, beautiful weather, outstanding dining and nightlife... you really can't beat it. That said, 17 both of those places with a 10-foot pole during the 6 months of winter that each one gets every year. Think I'm joking? Snow will start falling in November, and we got 10 inches in Ann Arbor on May 16th in 2005. It is absolutely miserable unless you really aren't bothered by being cold all the 17ing time.

The other thing is that while those spots were both very nice, let's not act like you can't drive down the street and run into a city like Detroit. Point being that everywhere has its rough spots.

it was a nice experience and I love visiting in the Summer, but give me warm weather, short skirts, and Southern football

 

[JML105]

I saw a funny map of the US once that labeled metropolitan areas across the US as being "The North" and rural areas across the entire US as being "The South". I think that map about summed it up, and I've lived in Texas, Illinois, and Indiana. I also have traveled and spent time from Seattle to Mumbai.

 

[Wicked Pissah]

I travel all over the globe and can live anywhere I want.

Write this down... Nobody retires and moves north.

 

[croomin]

I grew up in the Mississippi Delta and have lived in Nashville, Knoxville, Atlanta, NYC and Austin since. Travel all over the U.S. for work. To me, each place has great things about them. What America is all about. All different and all great.

Now visiting MS regularly for football games and family, your perspective changes. The term Dirty South is very fitting. It's largely a cultural thing, folks don't keep their property or their person as neat as in other areas of the country. In some areas (Utah, Iowa), they're quite strange for their neatness on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I think outsiders often see the scruff that the Dirty South carries and think of it as a reflection of being poor or backwards. There is a degree of truth to it, as well. The amount of metal buildings in MS are a reflection of an economy that doesn't have the strength of say Texas. Yet for the most part, I think people get it. Being a relatively rural place without the faux modern veneer of other areas blessed with urban economic strength, MS has a soul that is relatively unique today....and that's what makes it great.

 

[ReadyReady]

+1

 

[coach66]

I've been a few places during my time and could probably live anywhere I chose

to at this point but I choose to live in Miss. because I love to hunt, fish, boat/ski and support MSU sports/academics. I think Mississippi is a good place to raise a family as well but it certainly has it's challenges but no regrets.

 

[Wicked Pissah]

I grew up in the Mississippi Delta and have lived in Nashville, Knoxville, Atlanta, NYC and Austin since. Travel all over the U.S. for work. To me, each place has great things about them. What America is all about. All different and all great.

Now visiting MS regularly for football games and family, your perspective changes. The term Dirty South is very fitting. It's largely a cultural thing, folks don't keep their property or their person as neat as in other areas of the country. In some areas (Utah, Iowa), they're quite strange for their neatness on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I think outsiders often see the scruff that the Dirty South carries and think of it as a reflection of being poor or backwards. There is a degree of truth to it, as well. The amount of metal buildings in MS are a reflection of an economy that doesn't have the strength of say Texas. Yet for the most part, I think people get it. Being a relatively rural place without the faux modern veneer of other areas blessed with urban economic strength, MS has a soul that is relatively unique today....and that's what makes it great.

I agree. You dont realize how dirty Mississippi small towns, roads, buildings, etc are until you leave. It just looks old and dirty. Even driving down 12 feels nasty to me.

 

[Mjoelner]

I lived in San Diego for eight years. At first, it was really cool; head up to Big Bear and snowboard or ski in the morning, and be on the beach before sundown. Lots of "things to do," if you had the money for it...which gets expensive when you pile on the high cost of living. Oh, but the San Diego weather! Yeah, it's great for the first two years. Then you realize it's the same damn thing every day and the vast majority of the landscape is dirt brown all the time.

When I resigned my job to move back to Tennessee, my coworkers freaked out: "But they have tornadoes there!" I had to point out that they had earthquakes, wildfires, mudslides, and Tijuana sewage washing up on the beach.

I lived there for 2 years. Ah yeah, the annual migration of the Tijuana Trout! Pretty much sums up my thoughts too. Also, after I moved back to Mississippi, someone sent me a link that tracks registered sex offenders. I entered my old address in El Cajon and found that there were 27 of them living within a quarter of a mile of where I had been. That could also explain the MS13 graffiti that was on the 7/11 less than a block away too.

ETA: I spent as much time as I could up in the mountains or out in the desert while I was out there. My co-workers would constantly ask me "Why are you going out there? There's nobody there!" to which I would reply "You just answered your own question."

 

[ckDOG]

I have a theory about these studies

I think they are peformed only for self-validation by people who have no interest in understanding places or cultures not their own. I'm very confident that you can have a high quality of life in any region of the country if you maintain an open mind and use the best of what is available in the area. No area is going to have the best of everything and if there is one, it's no doubt it's overpriced and overcrowded.

Yeah, the south sucks on calculated metrics. Guess what? People live there and they love it. A metric of 10 in New Hampshire is not going to make you a fitter, wealthier, happier, smarter, nicer, less stressed, etc. than a 0 in Mississippi would. Find what works for you and 17 the metrics.

 

[WayboDawg]

I agree. You dont realize how dirty Mississippi small towns, roads, buildings, etc are until you leave. It just looks old and dirty. Even driving down 12 feels nasty to me.

I have to agree. Very few small towns in Mississippi have what I consider to be nice aesthetics aside from maybe their town square. Having no zoning laws can be a blessing or a curse. That's one thing Waynesboro needs in a bad way: some laws on what kind of image your business is allowed to present in the town. And it doesn't even have to be anything expensive.... Just mow your darn grass and put up some signage that doesn't look like it's infested with rust or termites.

 

[MaroonOldCrow]

Ahhh, the "Cajon Zone!" I used to go through that area all the time on my way to/from the Flinn Springs Inn. I lived in Spring Valley, the University area, and Imperial Beach over the time I was there. I worked for PacBell after I got out of the Navy and had the best "turf" possible for that job: Mission Beach, Pacific Beach, and the south part of La Jolla west of I-5.

 

[RickyWadePhilpotDVM]

I grew up in Warren County, now live in the Northeast, and will probably never come back. I miss Mississippi a lot at times, but the crime rate here is unequivocally lower, there's easier access to middle class jobs, and more to do.

The biggest gripe I have with MS, and the single biggest reason I'll never move back, is that Mississippi is awful at urban planning. You cannot walk anywhere in most cities in the state. Starkville and Oxford are walkable in some parts, to an extent, but for either spacing/geographical or crime reasons, it's hard to find places in the state where you can simultaneously live somewhere nice with good schools but still be able to walk to a bar or restaurant. It's part of the reason MS is so fat, and it makes for really boring neighborhoods. Having to get in a car to go literally everywhere is the worst.

 

[moturfdog]

Born and raised in Mississippi

And have been in Missouri now for 8 years. About the only difference is the racial make up and the winter is colder and a little long going toward spring.
The amount of poverty and lack of social respect for ones self and toward others isn't any different. Our meth heads and tweakers aren't going to work any more or any harder than the ones back home.
By the way my college age daughter chose to return to Mississippi for her education, and it was cheaper than attending school here, even with out of state tution.

 

[RickyWadePhilpotDVM]

I lived in Tennessee too, and I will say that metrics aside, MS isn't any better or worse than other Southern states in most respects like that.

 

[mstateglfr]

I grew up in the Chicago suburbs, surrounded by 13million neighbors.
I was in Mississippi for 5 years of college.
My wife was in New Orleans for college.
My parents lived on the northcentral California coast for 5 years.

I have no been in Iowa for 10 years and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. That article sums up a lot of why- housing is incredibly affordable while still having a high level of planning/codes, the population is overall well educated, jobs are continually available across a wide range of industries, roads are good, outdoor activities are great and continually improving(rails to trails and path expansions are incredible here). It is a safe state, even the urban areas, and it doesn't take long to get out to rural areas. I don't hunt, but deer are apparently prized here for size...I guess. The two main universities are incredible research and education institutions.
Its perfect for our family.


With all that said- my wife and I wanted to live in Starkville or New Orleans after her law school since we loved both places so much. We couldn't imagine raising kids on a small budget in New Orleans. And Starkville, at the time, had basically 0 jobs that weren't service industry. Careers weren't what Starkville was(or is?) known for.


Suburbs in Mississippi are suburbs in Iowa are suburbs in Maryland. Slight differences, sure, but they are middle to upper middle class areas and pretty damn similar. Where Mississippi gets knocked is the sheer amount of poverty, lack of infrastructure(roads, quality, and connectivity), and the vast difference between socio-economic classes. At least these 3 things are what I see so many jabs as being about. Whether the stereotypes are even accurate still or not, most of the time any jabs are part of one of those 3 categories.

I would love to retire in Mississippi, but we will inevitably retire around where our kids end up. Hopefully that's in Mississippi since I drop that idea in their heads every few months and have plenty of years to convince em!

 

[kired]

I'd say it depends on where you live in MS. There are plenty of areas of the state that I have no desire to live. My wife and I love where we live now, but strangely neither of us want to move back to our hometowns even though we could have plenty of free land from our parents to build a home. Main thing that keeps us in MS now is staying reasonably close to family.

There are a handful of places out of state I'd consider moving to but most are either in the southeast or out west. Can't imagine moving anywhere in the northern half of the US (draw a line from southern Penn state line straight across to KC, Denver, Salt Lake... and that's basically as far north as I'd go).

 

[mstateglfr]

I grew up in Warren County, now live in the Northeast, and will probably never come back. I miss Mississippi a lot at times, but the crime rate here is unequivocally lower, there's easier access to middle class jobs, and more to do.

The biggest gripe I have with MS, and the single biggest reason I'll never move back, is that Mississippi is awful at urban planning. You cannot walk anywhere in most cities in the state. Starkville and Oxford are walkable in some parts, to an extent, but for either spacing/geographical or crime reasons, it's hard to find places in the state where you can simultaneously live somewhere nice with good schools but still be able to walk to a bar or restaurant. It's part of the reason MS is so fat, and it makes for really boring neighborhoods. Having to get in a car to go literally everywhere is the worst.

Well said. I have bike access to restaurants all over our town and area. I can do multiple 20mile rides starting from our house with my 7yo and know that she can safely lead since we will be on planned paths or trails.
I was in Starkville for a night over the summer and it struck me then- the town is very subdivided and isn't easily accessible. It is what it is- I can only speculate why accessibility wasn't included much, probably because growth was varied and town leaders didn't consider it important.
Funny that in a town that is so sectioned off and inaccessible to other parts of town, there is the Cotton District which is one of the first New Urbanism spots in the US, which promotes integrating commerce with housing and easy foot access. Odd.

 

[rynodawg]

Same experience for us in LA. , but only lasted 3 years. Housing has gotten back up to ridiculous levels just in past couple years. The countless 'things to do' are a worthless benefit if half your income goes to rent, or an inflated mortgage.

 

[Snog]

I grew up in Warren County, now live in the Northeast, and will probably never come back. I miss Mississippi a lot at times, but the crime rate here is unequivocally lower, there's easier access to middle class jobs, and more to do.

The biggest gripe I have with MS, and the single biggest reason I'll never move back, is that Mississippi is awful at urban planning. You cannot walk anywhere in most cities in the state. Starkville and Oxford are walkable in some parts, to an extent, but for either spacing/geographical or crime reasons, it's hard to find places in the state where you can simultaneously live somewhere nice with good schools but still be able to walk to a bar or restaurant. It's part of the reason MS is so fat, and it makes for really boring neighborhoods. Having to get in a car to go literally everywhere is the worst.

Really? That's all you got?

 

[RickyWadePhilpotDVM]

What? I didn't realize this was a debate or something.

Really? That's all you got?

Once I lived in a place where I could walk to stuff, I grew to really like it. If that sort of thing doesn't matter to you, great, but it sure as hell matters to me. Like mstateglfr said, it's nice to have lots of places where your kids can ride a bike without you constantly worrying that they're going to get run over. Mississippi has the nation's highest rate of auto-related deaths per capita.

I wasn't going to get into it, but that's my bigger gripe with Mississippi. Monolithic culture. I haven't lived anywhere else where the local population expects everybody to think like them. Like, heaven forbid somebody would rate walkability high in their quality of life preferences. What a communist, amirite.

 

[EurekaDog]

Blame our (migrant) American ancestors. They got tired of not having

much land to farm, hunt, etc. So, while some remained in the big, eastern cities, many took Daniel Boone's idea and moved away from everybody... and they kept doing it until they hit the west coast.

My ancestors moved out of Virginia, to South Carolina, to Georgia, to Alabama, to Mississippi, and finally some moved on to Texas. Some remained at each stop, while others kept heading west. But, at each stop, they bought forty acres or more and built a house. 40 acres isn't a huge tract of land, but (1) when you put your 40 acres next to another 8 guys with 40 acres, (2) then replicate that situation thousands of times, and (3) the family mantra is "the land is everything so we will NEVER sell it", ... you have thousands of rural communities. People get used to riding in the wagon (then automobiles) and really didn't care if the nearest town was laid out according to a plan since they didn't go to town but once a month.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

I really don't get the ranking methodology. Like with safety. What the hell is with a 0 rating for MS? I mean, there are rough parts of the state (looking at you, catvet), but for the most part you ain't gonna get murdered in Mississippi. What would you rank Somalia on this scale, a -500? Seems a bit ridiculous. But if you go to other categories, like housing, the discrepancy on scores isn't much. You can buy a 2,000 sq ft home in a decent neighborhood in MS for under 200k, but in California, it will run you 600k. WTF?

The worst part about lists like these is that it somehow makes it seem like the places themselves are the problem, not the people living there. If you're a 400 pound diabetic with a 5th grade education living in a crackhouse in Jackson, MS, moving to New Hampshire isn't going to do you a damn bit of good.

 

[mstateglfr]

Sure, and that makes sense and explains rural areas. But it doesn't explain the urban areas.

On a releated note- I cant imagine having 40 acres. Itd be awesome in many ways, but I can barely manage to keep up with a whopping .5 acre as it is.

 

[Hammer Down]

much land to farm, hunt, etc. So, while some remained in the big, eastern cities, many took Daniel Boone's idea and moved away from everybody... and they kept doing it until they hit the west coast.

My ancestors moved out of Virginia, to South Carolina, to Georgia, to Alabama, to Mississippi, and finally some moved on to Texas. Some remained at each stop, while others kept heading west. But, at each stop, they bought forty acres or more and built a house. 40 acres isn't a huge tract of land, but (1) when you put your 40 acres next to another 8 guys with 40 acres, (2) then replicate that situation thousands of times, and (3) the family mantra is "the land is everything so we will NEVER sell it", ... you have thousands of rural communities. People get used to riding in the wagon (then automobiles) and really didn't care if the nearest town was laid out according to a plan since they didn't go to town but once a month.

While that strangely made sense, I think it's more that the south invested in agriculture and things like that. Memphis and New Orleans were on the river, while Birmingham had industry and Atlanta got the airport. Simply put, the south needs some other type of economic engine. I've always been an advocate of investing in tourism, but who knows, I'm no economic developer (if there really is such a thing - all they do is give out tax breaks).

 

[ronpolk]

As far as MS goes, I think it's 100% dependent on where you live. I live in Madison now and have a pretty good quality of life. I would say the jackson suburbs and NE Jackson all have a good quality of life. However, that is probably not the case if you live in the delta. No offense to any that live in the delta but it's the section of the state that drags most of the state down.

I grew up in Florida (split between St. Petersburg and Destin) and there is certainly a difference in how clean and nice towns look. In MS people don't seem to take pride in a town being clean and pretty. I like MS but will likely be back in FL at some point, mainly for schools for my daughter. I'll say this about MS though, you can't beat the people here.

 

[was21]

would love to live in Denver area

 

[MaroonOldCrow]

I left in '02, during the "Gray-Outs." I lived in a one BR apartment, and the rent was $1175 (granted, it was on the beach). Then I got an electric bill for $430 and that was last straw.

 

[dawgoneyall]

No offense to those 17er's but I hope those yankees stay up there. They are where they need to be and i am where I need to be.

As some one else stated here.....more move south than move north to retire.

 

[johnson86-1]

I think they are peformed only for self-validation by people who have no interest in understanding places or cultures not their own. I'm very confident that you can have a high quality of life in any region of the country if you maintain an open mind and use the best of what is available in the area. No area is going to have the best of everything and if there is one, it's no doubt it's overpriced and overcrowded.

Yeah, the south sucks on calculated metrics. Guess what? People live there and they love it. A metric of 10 in New Hampshire is not going to make you a fitter, wealthier, happier, smarter, nicer, less stressed, etc. than a 0 in Mississippi would. Find what works for you and 17 the metrics.

Whether they intend to or not, usually these studies are simply about the authors' bias and their desire to come up with another way of saying 'who has the most brown people' (except for California and Texas, who might do well). The reality is if you are healthy, smart, a hard worker, and have some sort of education, you're going to have a pretty good quality of life whatever state you are in. And the more of those things you are missing, the worse your quality of life will likely be, regardless of what state you live in. Other than the fact that some places like inner city Chicago or the Mississippi delta don't really give poor people good options for education, what state you live in doesn't have much to do with it, other than at the margins.