For what its worth
- Thread starter 615dawg
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Ole Miss signed 3. That's not exactly dominating in the one area Mullen was so bent on, well, dominating.
We're in the midst of some of the losingest football in MSU history. Ole Miss just had their best back-2-back seasons in 40 years. Considering those facts, I think we're doing OK in our recruiting battle against them. Did any of you really expect for a team with 1 winning season in several years to dominate a team with back-2-back cotton bowls?
For now, they are supposed to be ahead of us in recruiting. Mullen is going to have to win some games before we get a sea of change in recruiting.
For now, they are supposed to be ahead of us in recruiting. Mullen is going to have to win some games before we get a sea of change in recruiting.
...what is the difference between the Dandy Dozen & the 10 Most Wanted? They're both C-L lists, aren't they?
if you expand that out to the CL Top 25 its something like MSU 11 OM 6 and that's after the Giles switch. That's fairly lopsided. Of course, I realize that the OM staff doesn't think anybody in MS outside the Top 10 can play SEC ball anyway so they probably don't care.
http://www.clarionledger.com/section/SPORTS1101
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" width="580" border="0"><tbody><tr><td align="middle" colspan="6"><h2>The Clarion-Ledger Top 40 high school recruits</h2></td></tr><tr><td colspan="6"><h3>The Top 10</h3></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Player</td><td>High School</td><td>Pos.</td><td>Ht.</td><td>Wt.</td><td>College</td></tr><tr><td>Shon Coleman</td><td>Olive Branch</td><td>OL</td><td>6-7</td><td>280</td><td>Signed with Auburn</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Carlos Thompson</td><td>Hollandale Simmons</td><td>DL</td><td>6-5</td><td>220</td><td>Signed with Ole Miss</td></tr><tr><td>Damien Robinson</td><td>Olive Branch</td><td>OL</td><td>6-8</td><td>315</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Matthew Wells</td><td>Lawrence County</td><td>RB</td><td>6-2</td><td>210</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Vincent Sanders</td><td>Noxubee County</td><td></td><td>6-2</td><td>190</td><td>Signed with Ole Miss</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Kaleb Eulls</td><td>Yazoo County</td><td>DL</td><td>6-4</td><td>255</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Travis Dickson</td><td>Ocean Springs</td><td>TE</td><td>6-3</td><td>230</td><td>LSU commit</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Michael Carr</td><td>West Point</td><td>DB</td><td>6-1</td><td>190</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Bryon Bennett</td><td>Madison Central</td><td>DL</td><td>6-3</td><td>255</td><td>Ole Miss commit</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Steve McNair Jr.</td><td>Oak Grove</td><td>WR</td><td>6-0</td><td>190</td><td>Signed with Southern Miss</td></tr><tr><td colspan="6"><h3>Best of the rest</h3></td></tr><tr><td>Furious Bradley</td><td>Harrison Central</td><td>DB</td><td>5-9</td><td>170</td><td>Signed with Southern Miss</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Dylan Favre</td><td>St. Stanislaus</td><td>QB</td><td>5-11</td><td>190</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Cordell Giles</td><td>Benoit Ray Brooks</td><td>TE</td><td>6-3</td><td>220</td><td>Signed with Ole Miss</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Nick Griffin</td><td>Perry Central</td><td>RB</td><td>6-0</td><td>200</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Jay Hughes</td><td>Oak Grove</td><td>RB</td><td>5-10</td><td>180</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Robert Johnson</td><td>Oak Grove</td><td>WR</td><td>6-1</td><td>205</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Jameon Lewis</td><td>Tylertown</td><td>DB</td><td>5-9</td><td>175</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Jamerson Love</td><td>Aberdeen</td><td>DB</td><td>5-10</td><td>175</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Carlton Martin</td><td>Madison Central</td><td>DL</td><td>6-2</td><td>270</td><td>Ole Miss commit</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Nick Parker</td><td>South Panola</td><td>RB</td><td>6-2</td><td>210</td><td>Signed with Ole Miss</td></tr><tr><td>Asian Ruff</td><td>Itawamba AHS</td><td>DB</td><td>6-2</td><td>175</td><td>Arkansas commit</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Dominique Sullivan</td><td>Taylorsville</td><td>QB</td><td>6-3</td><td>175</td><td>Signed with Southern Miss</td></tr><tr><td>Vince Taylor</td><td>Oak Grove</td><td>DL</td><td>6-1</td><td>265</td><td>Vanderbilt commit</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Markese Triplett</td><td>Louisville</td><td>WR</td><td>6-4</td><td>205</td><td>Signed with Southern Miss</td></tr><tr><td>Curtis Virges</td><td>West Point</td><td>OL</td><td>6-3</td><td>280</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td colspan="6"><h3></h3></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" width="580" border="0"><tbody><tr><td align="middle" colspan="6"><h2>The Clarion-Ledger Top 40 high school recruits</h2></td></tr><tr><td colspan="6"><h3>The Top 10</h3></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Player</td><td>High School</td><td>Pos.</td><td>Ht.</td><td>Wt.</td><td>College</td></tr><tr><td>Shon Coleman</td><td>Olive Branch</td><td>OL</td><td>6-7</td><td>280</td><td>Signed with Auburn</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Carlos Thompson</td><td>Hollandale Simmons</td><td>DL</td><td>6-5</td><td>220</td><td>Signed with Ole Miss</td></tr><tr><td>Damien Robinson</td><td>Olive Branch</td><td>OL</td><td>6-8</td><td>315</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Matthew Wells</td><td>Lawrence County</td><td>RB</td><td>6-2</td><td>210</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Vincent Sanders</td><td>Noxubee County</td><td></td><td>6-2</td><td>190</td><td>Signed with Ole Miss</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Kaleb Eulls</td><td>Yazoo County</td><td>DL</td><td>6-4</td><td>255</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Travis Dickson</td><td>Ocean Springs</td><td>TE</td><td>6-3</td><td>230</td><td>LSU commit</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Michael Carr</td><td>West Point</td><td>DB</td><td>6-1</td><td>190</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Bryon Bennett</td><td>Madison Central</td><td>DL</td><td>6-3</td><td>255</td><td>Ole Miss commit</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Steve McNair Jr.</td><td>Oak Grove</td><td>WR</td><td>6-0</td><td>190</td><td>Signed with Southern Miss</td></tr><tr><td colspan="6"><h3>Best of the rest</h3></td></tr><tr><td>Furious Bradley</td><td>Harrison Central</td><td>DB</td><td>5-9</td><td>170</td><td>Signed with Southern Miss</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Dylan Favre</td><td>St. Stanislaus</td><td>QB</td><td>5-11</td><td>190</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Cordell Giles</td><td>Benoit Ray Brooks</td><td>TE</td><td>6-3</td><td>220</td><td>Signed with Ole Miss</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Nick Griffin</td><td>Perry Central</td><td>RB</td><td>6-0</td><td>200</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Jay Hughes</td><td>Oak Grove</td><td>RB</td><td>5-10</td><td>180</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Robert Johnson</td><td>Oak Grove</td><td>WR</td><td>6-1</td><td>205</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Jameon Lewis</td><td>Tylertown</td><td>DB</td><td>5-9</td><td>175</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Jamerson Love</td><td>Aberdeen</td><td>DB</td><td>5-10</td><td>175</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td>Carlton Martin</td><td>Madison Central</td><td>DL</td><td>6-2</td><td>270</td><td>Ole Miss commit</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Nick Parker</td><td>South Panola</td><td>RB</td><td>6-2</td><td>210</td><td>Signed with Ole Miss</td></tr><tr><td>Asian Ruff</td><td>Itawamba AHS</td><td>DB</td><td>6-2</td><td>175</td><td>Arkansas commit</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Dominique Sullivan</td><td>Taylorsville</td><td>QB</td><td>6-3</td><td>175</td><td>Signed with Southern Miss</td></tr><tr><td>Vince Taylor</td><td>Oak Grove</td><td>DL</td><td>6-1</td><td>265</td><td>Vanderbilt commit</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"><td>Markese Triplett</td><td>Louisville</td><td>WR</td><td>6-4</td><td>205</td><td>Signed with Southern Miss</td></tr><tr><td>Curtis Virges</td><td>West Point</td><td>OL</td><td>6-3</td><td>280</td><td>Signed with Mississippi State</td></tr><tr><td colspan="6"><h3></h3></td></tr></tbody></table>
If we can do that on a consistent basis, we'll be doing pretty well in-state no matter what Mississippi does. I'm a little concerned that we have so many from their 26-40 list and not even in the top 40, but I think the first 20 in this signing class are pretty good overall.
If you look at the players we both offered, it was pretty much a 50/50 split with a slight nod in our favor.
Here is the list, and I'll give you Carr, because we never had a shot, thus didn't put a big push on him.
Wells, Johnson, Robinson, Eulls, Carr - MSU
Sanders, Thompson, Parker, Martin, Bennett, Giles - Ole Miss
That's 6 we signed and 5 you signed. Just because you went after a bunch of guys that we didn't make a push for doesn't mean you dominated us in the state. In the head to heads, it was either a split or in our favor.
The biggest plus out of all of it though is that only one player that we both wanted, Coleman, went out of state. It's good to see the top players staying home.
Here is the list, and I'll give you Carr, because we never had a shot, thus didn't put a big push on him.
Wells, Johnson, Robinson, Eulls, Carr - MSU
Sanders, Thompson, Parker, Martin, Bennett, Giles - Ole Miss
That's 6 we signed and 5 you signed. Just because you went after a bunch of guys that we didn't make a push for doesn't mean you dominated us in the state. In the head to heads, it was either a split or in our favor.
The biggest plus out of all of it though is that only one player that we both wanted, Coleman, went out of state. It's good to see the top players staying home.
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Banned Goat
Guest
and you DID go after Carmon. Don't be an idiot. And Hughes had offers from everybody, don't act like he doesn't count, regardless of whether you tried, he told you no, or whatever. You just like to argue. Congrats on Yancy being the best recruitnik, I know that means alot to you since you don't follow it.
Tell me, who's class is better, since you don't get wrapped up in the rankings?
Tell me, who's class is better, since you don't get wrapped up in the rankings?
If you'll read the articles on Carmon, it's pretty obvious he was all OM until he went to a game and tried to commit. <div>Banned Goat said:
</div><div>When they told him they didn't have a space at DT for him, he started the OM hate.</div><div>
</div><div>I think Hughes is a good player if he comes back from the injury, but don't act like he was as highly recruited as his profile indicates. Our rivals site never even wrote an article about him. He only visited MSU. In the end, he chose between Ark and MSU. He is a good player who others backed off of early due to the injury. It is what it is.</div><div>
</div><div>We never even looked in Lewis's direction.</div><div>
</div><div>You got some good players that we would have liked...Carr, Eulls, Robinson, Wells, & Johnson. Be happy with that and quit spinning.</div>
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Banned Goat
Guest
Seriously, nobody buys your superiority crap. Yeah Carmon wanted to commit, just like Robinson begged for a LOI. Give me a break, dude. Just quit trying to convince others of the nonsense you've allowed yourself to be consumed with.
based on the last 10 years of MSU football and ole miss having their best 2 years in 40 years, yall should be cleaning our clock in Miss...
but it is just not happening..
Miss players are usually looked over compared to those in higher profile areas.... that's why I'm not overly worried about yall's ranking either..
I saw what happened in the egg bowl and our Miss 2 and 3 stars did quite well agains the Fl and GA 4 star guys
but it is just not happening..
Miss players are usually looked over compared to those in higher profile areas.... that's why I'm not overly worried about yall's ranking either..
I saw what happened in the egg bowl and our Miss 2 and 3 stars did quite well agains the Fl and GA 4 star guys
Follow the timeline...<div>Banned Goat said:
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">"Ole Miss. Ole Miss is leading right now, I like them a whole lot. They're showing me a whole lot of love, too," he said. "I'm going to go up there and check it out. If I really like it, I like the school and the campus, that's where I'm going to be going.
"It's because I like their program a whole lot, but I want to see how their season goes. Plus, they're losing their top d-linemen, they've just got one left who is a returning starter, and he needs some help. I think that I could help him out in the 4-3 defense."
Carmon said he would like to get his decision over with before the season concludes, as he will enter school in January.
Despite the fact that the Rebels have a big lead right now, he is still in contact with other schools.
"I'm still talking to other schools, of course. I still haven't taken my official (to Ole Miss), so I don't know a lot about how the campus it, so I don't know if I'm going to like it or not so that's why I haven't committed already," he said. "
</span> <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">http://bwi.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=978342</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
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</span></td></tr></tbody></table>As was previously reported on the Rivals.com network, Carmon will visit Ole Miss on Oct. 10 when the Rebels entertain defending SEC West champion Alabama at Vaught-Hemingway Stadium.
"Ole Miss is in the lead right now," Carmon said. "I just like the coaching staff, the facilities and I did a little research on them. I feel like I can go help them in that 4-3 defense. I can help them a lot. If I go there and I like it, I might go ahead and commit."
Carmon, a 6-foot-7, 370-pound defensive tackle from Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College, is being recruited to Ole Miss by wide receivers coach Ron Dickerson Jr.
"He's telling me I could come in and start right away," Carmon said. "All I have to do is stay healthy and work hard. He's telling me as long as I stay on top of my grades, I'll be OK."
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">http://bwi.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=982816</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">Now the nation's No. 7 junior college player, Carmon has scholarship offers from several schools, and just set up his second official visit.
"I just set up my official to Penn State, for when they play Ohio State (on Nov. 7)," he said. "I really haven't set any other ones up except for Ole Miss, when they play Alabama (Oct. 10). I'll probably set about two more up, but there really aren't a lot of places that I really want to go besides those. I want to set one up for Mississippi State, and I want to set one up to Alabama. But I haven't really been talking to them lately so I haven't set them up."
The four-star prospect said that he's heard from the two Mississippi schools and Penn State the most since Sept. 1. Right now the Baltimore native has two schools currently ranked in the top 10 at the top of his list.
"Ole Miss and Penn State are right up there at the top competing," he said. "Ole Miss is still in the lead right now. There really hasn't been too much going on with that though. Penn State is closer to home, so that's nice, plus the program is good. They could easily take the lead, but like I told Larry, I really don't know until I take my visits. Then I'll make my decision.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">http://bwi.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=989526</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">He left Oxford without giving his commitment, but it would be a mistake to assume the visit went poorly.
"It might just happen," Carmon said. "I'm going to call (Ole Miss defensive line) Coach (Terry) Price tonight on some new stuff and if he gives me the right answers, I'm there."
Specifically, Carmon said he wants to know how Price plans to use a player of his frame _ 6-foot-7, 370 pounds _ given how much taller he is compared to the defensive tackles Ole Miss has on campus now. Ole Miss' four defensive tackles _ Lawon Scott, Ted Laurent, Jerrell Powe and LaMark Armour _ are all in the 6-1 to 6-2 range.
"Now they have some short guys," Carmon said. "I want to see where he would put me in terms of where they'd put me on the field."
Ole Miss runs a 4-3 defense and rotates defensive lines, seemingly every four plays, and the Rebels' scheme is appealing.
"I talked to Coach Price yesterday and I asked him about that because they have four junior tackles and how that worked out for me," Carmon said. "He said I'd definitely be in a rotation. He said they rotate every four plays. That's how I observed it (during the Rebels' 22-3 loss to Alabama Saturday). There are really not starters. They all play the same exact time. Some might get a little more reps than others. If I were to commit, I'd be playing. I'd put myself in a position where I can play and I'll play harder than everybody.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">Carmon, who also claims offers from Alabama, Coastal Carolina, Memphis, Mississippi State, Penn State, South Florida and Tennessee, said Ole Miss is clearly the leader.
"I definitely see myself being there," Carmon said. "The players were telling me it's the place to be. They said you go to school and play football and everything else works out."
Carmon said he liked what he saw off the field during his 48 hours at Ole Miss as well.
"My visit went good," Carmon said. "I liked Ole Miss. I like it up there. The fans are good, the coaching staff is good. I like the atmosphere up there. It was live. …It stands good right now. It went well for me."</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">http://bwi.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1000856</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">Then after calling OM and trying to commit...</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">"I haven't decided yet, not until I take all of my visits," said Carmon. "I'm going to Mississippi State over Thanksgiving when they play Ole Miss, I think I'm going to do that. If we keep winning down here, I'm not going to be able to take my visit to Penn State for Penn State-0hio State, because we'll have a game that day if we keep winning. I'll have to reschedule that if that happens."
Carmon seemed to be on the verge of committing to Mississippi just a short time ago, but those plans have appeared to change completely.
"I don't think Ole Miss really needs me right now," he said. "They've got four juniors who are all coming back. I don't think they really need me. I don't know, I haven't really kept in contact with them like I used to after my visit. I don't know that they're really going to fit me."
The 6-foot-7, 360-pound prospect had expected to end up a Rebel, and didn't see this change coming.
"It was unexpected to me, because I didn't know it was going to turn out like that," he said. "I never knew that they were all coming back, I thought two or three of them were entering into the draft, that was what I was told. When I went there for my visit, they told me they were all coming back, plus they're got a freshman coming in, and I don't think they're going to redshirt him. I really don't think that they have much need for me."
With the recent changes, Carmon has also experienced a shakeup at the top of his list.
"It definitely puts the other schools ahead," he said. "Right now Mississippi State is ahead, not really ahead, but with all the schools. I should be making my officials and then making a decision sometime in December or something like that."
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">http://bwi.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1005442</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">Saturday will be the massive JUCO prospects second visit to MSU this season also taking an unofficial visit for the LSU game. But Carmon is expecting the Egg Bowl to be an even better atmosphere than he saw at Davis Wade Stadium on his previous trip.
"I'm expecting the atmosphere to be even better than it was against LSU," Carmon said. "I'm expecting it to be a sold out crowd. I'm expecting a real good time this weekend. That's really what I've been waiting on is for somebody to show me a good time. I'm wanting to see them beat Ole Miss. I'm expecting it to be a close game because Mississippi State has got some defense. I believe they really don't have a lot of offense with their quarterback so I think it's going to be a defensive game."</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">[url="http://bwi.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1021390"]http://bwi.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1021390[/url]</span></div><div>
</div><div>It wasn't that Carmon was a bad player. We just didn't need a guy like him in a 4-3. Plus we had 2 senior DTs returning and he was a juco.</div><div>
</div><div>You know I'm right, Curly/Huntsville/Goat/etc.</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">
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Banned Goat
Guest
Your history lesson could be interpreted alot of different ways. No surprise you construed it as one that claims MSU got a player Ole Miss didn't want. Not to mention articles written with Ole Miss slant.
You have no point here.
You have no point here.
The discussion was on high school kids, at least that was my understanding.
ETA: If you want to include Hughes, it's 6-6 then.
Like I said, the state is usually going to be a pretty even split most years, regardless of the records, and it was this year. Occasionally one side will win more battles than the other, but it'll go back and forth.
ETA: If you want to include Hughes, it's 6-6 then.
Like I said, the state is usually going to be a pretty even split most years, regardless of the records, and it was this year. Occasionally one side will win more battles than the other, but it'll go back and forth.
maroonmania said:
If we both offered all of the Top 25, you could use that measure. In head to head battles, it was a pretty even split. Mullen will love fans like you though, because every year he'll be able to sign players in state that we don't offer, and he'll get to claim in-state recruiting superiority, and you'll be happy.
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Banned Goat
Guest
and Mullen probably got ahead of himself popping off about dominating the state and all. It shows that neither will stockpile recruits, as Giles and Thompson both referenced the UM lack of depth as a big reason those picked them.
The discussion was head to head recruiting.
The discussion was head to head recruiting.
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Banned Goat
Guest
but it never will be. And you can always throw the genespage out there while defending something of which you have no proof, like "We didn't want 6-7, 370 lb. James Carmon".
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